The Miami Dolphins Fans Draft Day Support Thread

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Where's the brick wall emoticon when we need it?

hmm funny, ive delivered for the fins fans better than thier team did

[QuikSand]

One thing that I worry about with the Dolphins is that with public screwups like (but not limited to) this draft day implosion... they run the risk of dropping from the fairly short list of elite NFL franchises. I suspect this reputation is partially a function of the team's deep history (perfect season, multiple titles, HOFers, Shula, and on to Marino) that they are still part of that company. Candidly, it's also probably partially a function of weather adn nightlife opportunities in Miami. Even recently, we still hear of high profile players saying that Miami is on their short list of places to go play -- and I think it was the franchise reputation that made Miami attractive to guys like Jimmy Johnson and Nick Saban, regardless of how those forays worked out. That's just a nice thing to have, through by itself it isn't worth a single win.

I worry that over time, this might really erode. The flailing around over coaching in recent years, the ownership situation overall, the mess with Ricky Williams, the series of freakshow oddities they have fielded at QB since Marino's departure, and now the added (and seemingly warranted) draft day ridicule all seem to add up to a franchise that just doesn't have that aura any more. Maybe it was lost a long time ago, and they have just been coasting on old rep for years... but you really don't want to be perceived as another Arizona (no offense, hopefully they are finally escaping this knock), a franchise that doesn't have a good sense of direction and is a place to play only for money, not for acclaim.

So... in part, I don't really worry so much that they missed out on Amobi Okoye, or that they might have snagged a couple more draft picks and still have gotten Ginn (if they wanted him that terribly) -- it's more that they are increasingly showing the signs of a franchise in distress. I hope the new regime can get things going in the right direction... but right at the moment, there's a lot of stuff like this to worry about, it seems.

[Ksyrup]

In other words, Saban left the NFL equivalent of Alabama for the real thing?

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Why oh why did we take Travis Minor the 2nd? He's a one dimensional guy.

Because we took Yatil Green in the 1st.

[Toddzilla]

I'm not sure why the Dolphins are considered "elite" anyway. Basically, they caught lightning in a bottle in the early 70's and that's it. They went to the Super Bowl only 6 years after their inaugural season and lost to the Cowboys, then ran off a perfect season, the next year they go to their third SB in a row and win their second. And that's it.

Since 1973, that franchise has done nothing of significance. They won a few conference championships and lost a few Super Bowls, but absolutely nothing that would categorize them as an "elite" franchise. There is nothing in the current ownership's resume that would indicate that these Miami Dolphins will be mediocre and worse for now until they sell the team. They're the Detroit Lions with good weather.

[bulletsponge]

They're the Detroit Lions with good weather.

theyre the Arizona Cardinals of the west coast?

[Ksyrup]

I don't know my NFL history all that well, but as far as I can recall, they were always a consistent winner, weren't they? For the better part of 20-25 years, you could pencil them in for 8-12 wins a year, right? Combined with the perfect season, Shula, and Marino, that continuity obviously made them an elite team. And really, even with Johnson and Wannestadt, it wasn't until Wanny's last year that they fell under .500. I think what started to do them in before that, though, were the couple of blowout playoff losses and that playoff game with the Pats where the D knew the audibles from the week before and the Dolphins game plan for the playoff game looked like a joke. That was back-to-back with the Jaguars blowout game. And then Wanny's teams had a knack for not showing up in the playoffs, either.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Izulde

So maybe Beck isn't that bad, though I still have my doubts. But if Cam can develop him, fine.

Just like he developed Randle-El in college?

[Kodos]

Having witnessed the Cameron years as an IU fan, he doesn't fill me with confidence. Sorry Turd Ferd.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Here's what Ginn is really saying, and it's a bit more vague than a 2-4 month claim.

http://www.miamiherald.com/616/story/91194.html

Well, if training camp starts at the end of July and Ginn can't commit to being ready for it, and that is 3 months away, I think saying he is out 2-4 months is pretty accurate. He's in a boot for a month and will need at least a month to rehab.

I expect Fins management to be all optimistic after the beating they are taking, but if a player himself is doubtful, I will put more stock in that.

[JPhillips]

Don't feel bad Dolphins fans. The SportingNews gives you an A+ for the draft.

No, really they did.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?t=202062

[Julio Riddols]

Thats almost enough for me to cancel my subscription. And it's hilarious.

[Ksyrup]

I think the Sporting News grades drafts the way FOF does. If your team sucks and you address gaping holes, you get a good grade. From the standpoint that the Dolphins got 3 guys who will probably start immediately (or at least could, depending on what they do with the rookie QB), and they have little or nothing at those positions currently on the roster, the draft was a success. But apparently SN didn't take into account where Ginn was drafted, who else they could have taken, or what they could have done if they traded down.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Thats almost enough for me to cancel my FREE subscription. And it's hilarious.

Fixed, and I agree with you 100%

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Don't feel bad Dolphins fans. The SportingNews gives you an A+ for the draft.

No, really they did.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?t=202062

Weren't they the ones who were saying Quinn was a 3rd rounder? Kinda hard to not fellate the team that passes on him in that case.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

You're kidding right? Right? ND plays a mediocre schedule. They got blown out by the 3 top opponents and played 3-4 more okay teams plus the service academies. ND's tough schedule is a fraud and they've recently discontinued playing BC who was one of their toughest opponents.

QFT

When's the last time ND has won a bowl game? Early 90s. Heck I think in the past two years they've beaten 1 team that ended the year Ranked in the top 25.

[Izulde]

I want some of whatever the Sporting News is smoking.

[DolphinFan1]

I think the Dolphins did great in their draft.


I am being sarcastic of course.


I wanted QUINN.

[Kodos]

I was really torn on Quinn. There is a lot of hatred because of the Notre Dame aspect, but I also have doubts about him as a player. But he did seem like a logical player to take there. Better than Ginn, for sure.

[Passacaglia]

Anyway, how do you cancel your free subscription? I'm sick of getting them. I thought it was supposed to last only a year, but it still goes on. I've even moved and not told them about it, and they still found me.

[Bee]

I have no problems with them passing on Quinn especially considering there were a few other QBs that many had rated very close to Quinn that were likely to be available in the second round, but picking Ginn at number 9 was a horrible pick IMO.

[Leonidas]

Dr. Z stunned me today with how much he liked the Phins draft.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...rt.card/3.html

They lose their premier return man, Wes Welker, to the Patriots, so they need a returner, and Ted Ginn, Jr.'s application has been accepted. My point is that if they'd have held onto Welker in the first place, they wouldn't have needed a return man, but I'm sure that kind of simplistic logic can be shot full of holes. Yep, Ginn is a wideout of note, too, and second rounder Samson Satele is a nice, agile center. But if what I think could happen actually happens, then this will be a terrific draft, much more serious than its listed grade. I'm looking at a two-word possibility. John Beck. Quarterback. Gym rat, competitor, Jeff Garcia type with a better arm. So if he's so great, why'd he last until a quarter of the way down the second round? Beats me. I predict nothing. I'm just mentioning that you never know, as they say on blind dates.

I think I can see his point. The Phins are gambling on Beck and built the whole draft around this guy. If he's the real deal, then in 5-10 years people could be saying Cameron outsmarted the whole NFL. Of course if it fails, then he's Dave Wannstedt part deux.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Dr. Z stunned me today with how much he liked the Phins draft.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...rt.card/3.html


I think I can see his point. The Phins are gambling on Beck and built the whole draft around this guy. If he's the real deal, then in 5-10 years people could be saying Cameron outsmarted the whole NFL. Of course if it fails, then he's Dave Wannstedt part deux.

Which is a little back asswards to some degree if you are Cameron. Take Quinn and if Quinn fails it's mostly Quinn's fault and gamble on finding a return guy later. Unless of course they believe Quinn is a donkey in which case they better hope he doesn't light it up in Cleveland.

[Bee]

If they built their whole draft around Beck, it was a helluva gamble because a lot of people had him going before the Dolphins picked in the second round.

[Ksyrup]

Even if Ginn, Beck, Satele, and Booker all pan out, it still doesn't make sense for them to take Ginn where they did. Unless they tried to trade out of that spot and were unsuccessful in finding a trade partner, there is no excuse. I can't imagine another team taking him anywhere in the top 15, maybe 20, right?

Of course, if the draft works out so well that all they did was overpay for a guy who turned out pretty good, then I'm sure they'll take that.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Which is a little back asswards to some degree if you are Cameron. Take Quinn and if Quinn fails it's mostly Quinn's fault and gamble on finding a return guy later. Unless of course they believe Quinn is a donkey in which case they better hope he doesn't light it up in Cleveland.

Quinn has to play Pittsburgh and Baltimore 4 times a year. Those are usually both around top 10 defenses. And also the Bengals aren't bad either. So that's 6 games a year that he'll have his work cut out for him. He may be a great, but I think it's much more likely that he struggles, especially when the browns have a questionable running game, and defense still.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by stevew

Quinn has to play Pittsburgh and Baltimore 4 times a year. Those are usually both around top 10 defenses. And also the Bengals aren't bad either. So that's 6 games a year that he'll have his work cut out for him. He may be a great, but I think it's much more likely that he struggles, especially when the browns have a questionable running game, and defense still.

I'm thinking long term. Cleveland has pretty much the worst talent in the league right now. If he may be great the Dolphins should have taken him.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by stevew

And also the Bengals aren't bad either.

Did you watch any NFL football last year?

[SFL Cat]

Doesn't Beck have to do the Mormon two-year missionary thing before he plays football? If so, that makes him late 20s, nearly 30 before he plays.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Doesn't Beck have to do the Mormon two-year missionary thing before he plays football? If so, that makes him late 20s, nearly 30 before he plays.

Culpecker can fill in.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Did you watch any NFL football last year?

Cincy held Jailmal in check 2 times....I don't see why it wouldn't continue. Your guys have enough talent to be a good defense, I just think it needs to be coached up more.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Doesn't Beck have to do the Mormon two-year missionary thing before he plays football? If so, that makes him late 20s, nearly 30 before he plays.

At 26 already, I would assume he already did it.

[stevew]

yeah....
from wiki...

He served a mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Lisbon, Portugal from 2000 through 2002

[Butter]

Originally Posted by stevew

Your guys have enough talent to be a good defense, I just think it needs to be coached up more.

Marvin needs to put all those guys on a much shorter leash.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Marvin needs to put all those guys on a much shorter leash.

Marvin is not all that good of a coach.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Marvin is not all that good of a coach.

I tend to disagree....I mean I never thought in my lifetime someone would coach up the Bengals to 3 8-8 seasons and an 11-5 one in a 4 year period.

[Butter]

Anybody who can coach for Mike Brown and make the Bengals a winner is doing pretty good. There are a lot of areas where Marvin can improve, and I think the whole area is just so happy that the Bengals are contending, that they're willing to cut Marvin a little slack. But the day is coming where 8-8 and 9-7 won't be good enough... hell, it may even be this year.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Anybody who can coach for Mike Brown and make the Bengals a winner is doing pretty good. There are a lot of areas where Marvin can improve, and I think the whole area is just so happy that the Bengals are contending, that they're willing to cut Marvin a little slack. But the day is coming where 8-8 and 9-7 won't be good enough... hell, it may even be this year.

They would be silly to fire him, i dunno who signed off on all their jackass players, if it was Lewis, then yah, he's a bit of a hack. But the team is relevant again, which is a nice start.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by stevew

I tend to disagree....I mean I never thought in my lifetime someone would coach up the Bengals to 3 8-8 seasons and an 11-5 one in a 4 year period.

To me the Bengals have zero chance of going to a superbowl with marvin at the helm. I think they play to their talent level and that's it. Bengals have some very good individual parts...better than their talent has been but to me Marvin isn't a guy to pull the whole program together the way it could be.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by stevew

They would be silly to fire him, i dunno who signed off on all their jackass players, if it was Lewis, then yah, he's a bit of a hack. But the team is relevant again, which is a nice start.

The smart money says it was mostly Mike Brown's call on taking all the later round players with character issues. It's just another way for him to try to sign high quality talent cheaply. He just never counted on there being such a backlash when these guys backfired on him over and over again.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by stevew

They would be silly to fire him, i dunno who signed off on all their jackass players, if it was Lewis, then yah, he's a bit of a hack. But the team is relevant again, which is a nice start.

Which is the point. Marvin is fine to get you to relevant. I see regression soon to that 9-7. They be decent because they have Palmer.

It's like the Celtics and Doc Rivers. Should they get Oden it's time to get rid of the babysitter/caretaker and get a real coach to start focussing on the x and o's and excution.

[SFL Cat]

Heeeeyyyyy!!!

Start your own Bangles fan support thread.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Lewis has been helpled in his coaching/gameplan role by Palmer, Johnson, and Johnson. That's a triumvirate the Bengals hadn't seen in a long long time. I've seen him outcoached many times. I think he can motivate though.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Don't feel bad Dolphins fans. The SportingNews gives you an A+ for the draft.

No, really they did.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?t=202062

SWERVE

[JPhillips]

Who do you get that's better for the Bengals than Marvin? No point in firing him if you can't get a better replacement. I still can't believe how quick people are to can Marvin when he's the main reason the team is competitive. It's like the nineties didn't fucking happen.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by stevew

Fixed, and I agree with you 100%

How the hell did you know I had a free subscription with The Sporting News?

*cue strange music*

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

To me the Bengals have zero chance of going to a superbowl with marvin at the helm. I think they play to their talent level and that's it. Bengals have some very good individual parts...better than their talent has been but to me Marvin isn't a guy to pull the whole program together the way it could be.

I think this comes from Marvin loosening the reins the past couple years.. He had the main nuts and bolts of the team together, but he was sort of trying to ease up on the guys because by then they knew the drill, knew what was expected of them, etc. Last year, he really just let them play, and I think he realized he needs to be more of a hard ass like he was in the first couple years with the team, which is what I would expect this season. Don't forget last season they played an extremely hard schedule, had lots of injuries and problems at LB which seems to be the crux of a typical Marvin Lewis defense, and had an obliterated Offensive line most of the year as well, including Center, which is a key spot no matter how little they get paid. Take that into account, then look at games they should have won, Tampa Bay was taken away from them by a roughing the passer call on a sack for god's sake. The game against Pittsburgh at the end of the year they should have won also, but for some god-awful reason, Graham shanks the kick from well inside 40 yards. The game against Denver had a similar end result, with a botched extra point that would have tied the game. Thats 3 games, 2 that should have been won, one that should have been 50/50 at the very least. So youre looking at a 10-6/11-5 record against a schedule that includes the Steelers twice, the Ravens twice, the Patriots, the Colts, the Chiefs, the Panthers, the Saints, the Chargers, the Falcons and the Broncos. Thats 12 games against teams who were expected to contend or did contend last season. The only games Cinci "should have" won, they won in dominating fashion, with a 27-10 win over the Raiders, and 30-0 and 34-17 wins over the Browns. The game against Tampa was most assuredly an off day, and they still win that game without the roughing the passer sack.

I think last year was about bad luck more than anything, and you can't coach against luck. Facing one of the toughest schedules in the NFL and losing half your offensive line for most of the year while dealing with similar issues at linebacker will make it very hard to make the playoffs, but Cinci still could have easily been 10-6, and even 11-5 without the bad luck in those 3 games that essentially killed their season.

So I won't even think of buying into the "Marvin isn't the coach to take them all the way" hype, because for the past 2 seasons, Cincinnati has shown they can play with anyone. Now they just need to figure out that you don't stop Peyton Manning by sitting back in a zone all day, and they'll be primed to make a serious run this year, which I fully expect them to do.

Its a huge deal what he has done in Cincinnati, to even have that team doing anything positive after the 90's is incredible to me. The team stopped drafting guys with character issues, as evidenced by this draft, and I think Chris Henry has learned his lesson, as he isn't appealing his suspension or anything, and he hasn't complained once about his punishment. He knows he deserved it, and he is going to do his time and come back mid-season to a team in the thick of the title hunt. The other players who had anything to do with off the field issues are gone from the team for the most part, and Odell Thurman is getting his last chance this season. If he messes up again, he will be gone for sure.

I can guarantee you last season was an aberration, and you will see an entirely different Bengals team this year, barring catastrophic injury. Personally, I hope Marvin keeps his job for as long as Cowher did in Pittsburgh, or longer. I don't want anyone else coaching this team.

[Julio Riddols]

Dola: ...And now back to your regularly scheduled Dolphins support group. :P

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I'll simply add that on the Cincy thing that every team has injuries and every team has bad breaks, or crucial missed plays (and I have no doubt Cincy got a few go their way that gave them some of their actual wins). You are what you are. Now, you can go back to regularly scheduled programming.