Big East - What Happens Next Year

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Logan

Yeah, the same people who also think the ACC is a good conference; i.e complete morons.

Amazing that you don't see any type of connection between your "deep" conference and the lack of any great teams.

I don't? The reason we didn't have any 'great teams' is becasue it's such a deep conference...same reason why the SEC hardly ever has an undefeated team. Meanwhile, you keep thinking that there was a Big East team was one win away from a MNC appearance...now that's laughable. The voters would have done the same thing to Louisville that they did to Michigan. No chance in hell that a Big East team was going to play for the MNC over Florida...heck, they would have rather had the rematch of UM/OSU than put in some team from a conference like the Big East.

lol.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I don't? The reason we didn't have any 'great teams' is becasue it's such a deep conference...same reason why the SEC hardly ever has an undefeated team. Meanwhile, you keep thinking that there was a Big East team was one win away from a MNC appearance...now that's laughable. The voters would have done the same thing to Louisville that they did to Michigan. No chance in hell that a Big East team was going to play for the MNC over Florida...heck, they would have rather had the rematch of UM/OSU than put in some team from a conference like the Big East.

lol.

I don't know why I'm engaging this discussion, but if Louisville had gone undefeated they would absolutely be playing for the Championship. If you don't believe me just ask IMetTrentGreen.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by VPI97

IMeanwhile, you keep thinking that there was a Big East team was one win away from a MNC appearance...now that's laughable. The voters would have done the same thing to Louisville that they did to Michigan. No chance in hell that a Big East team was going to play for the MNC over Florida...heck, they would have rather had the rematch of UM/OSU than put in some team from a conference like the Big East.

lol.

If Louisville hasn't lost to Rutgers and gone undefeated, then they would have been in the BCS Championship game. No way a one loss Florida or Michigan team would have been ranked ahead of an undefeated Louisville.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by cartman

If Louisville hasn't lost to Rutgers and gone undefeated, then they would have been in the BCS Championship game. No way a one loss Florida or Michigan team would have been ranked ahead of an undefeated Louisville.

No way Michigan was supposed to drop from #2 to out of the MNC game. Just sayin'

[cartman]

Originally Posted by VPI97

No way Michigan was supposed to drop from #2 to out of the MNC game. Just sayin'

If Louisville didn't lose to Rutgers and was undefeated, then no way Michigan would have stayed at #2 after losing to Ohio State.

Just sayin'.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by cartman

If Louisville didn't lose to Rutgers and was undefeated, then no way Michigan would have stayed at #2 after losing to Ohio State.

Just sayin'.

A one loss Louisville was behind a couple of two loss teams in the final BCS rankings. Not much of a stretch to think that a zero loss Louisville would have been behind two other one loss teams.

Just sayin'

[cartman]

Originally Posted by VPI97

A one loss Louisville was behind a couple of two loss teams in the final BCS rankings. Not much of a stretch to think that a zero loss Louisville would have been behind two other one loss teams.

Just sayin'

LOL

[ISiddiqui]

I'll agree with everyone else that thinks VPI is a deluded freak, whose girlfriend must have been stolen by a guy going to a Big East school, to think that an undefeated Louisville wouldn't be in the NC game.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by VPI97

A one loss Louisville was behind a couple of two loss teams in the final BCS rankings. Not much of a stretch to think that a zero loss Louisville would have been behind two other one loss teams.

Just sayin'

Actually, it's a tremendous stretch that only somebody with a completely irrational hatred of the Big East could make.

[st.cronin]

dola

Then again, I really don't get how a 1-loss team from a weak ass conference like the SEC made the championship game over Wisconsin.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Actually, it's a tremendous stretch that only somebody with a completely irrational hatred of the Big East could make.

The computer rankings hated Louisville all season...you're telling me that is was a sure thing that they would have made the champ game? Pffft.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by VPI97

The computer rankings hated Louisville all season...you're telling me that is was a sure thing that they would have made the champ game? Pffft.

Yep, since 2/3 of the poll is comprised of human voters, who had Louisville ranked at #3 when they lost.

[Logan]

Ummm, yeah...Louisville was ranked 3rd in the BCS before their loss to Rutgers, with a fairly large lead over #4 Florida. A win over (then) #13 in the BCS Rutgers, complete with winning out, would have kept them in the #2 spot over Michigan.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings?week=4

Keep digging yourself deeper though, it's great entertainment over here.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by cartman

Yep, since 2/3 of the poll is comprised of human voters, who had Louisville ranked at #3 when they lost.

Yep...and USC was one and two spots behind them in the final human polls, yet still finished ahead of them in the BCS rankings. You're telling me that it's impossible that UF or UM (who would have both been one and two spots behind L'ville in a final poll) could not have jumped the Cardinals due to their horrible CPU rankings?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Logan

Ummm, yeah...Louisville was ranked 3rd in the BCS before their loss to Rutgers, with a fairly large lead over #4 Florida. A win over (then) #13 in the BCS Rutgers, complete with winning out, would have kept them in the #2 spot over Michigan.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings?week=4

Keep digging yourself deeper though, it's great entertainment over here.

Not only that but they were ranked 3rd in the computer polls. The computers exacted a large penalty on them for losing to Rutgers. If they hadn't, I can't see the computers having them any lower than 4th. And with #2 in the Harris and Coaches, that would have definately been enough.

And, of course, before Rutgers lost to Cincy, they were ranked #2 in the computer polls.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Yep...and USC was one and two spots behind them in the final human polls, yet still finished ahead of them in the BCS rankings. You're telling me that it's impossible that UF or UM (who would have both been one and two spots behind L'ville in a final poll) could not have jumped the Cardinals due to their horrible CPU rankings?

Just say it..."I was wrong."

You don't even have to admit to being wrong about the BE sucking, or about the ACC being great. Just concede that you were talking out of your ass when you stated Louisville wouldn't have made the NC game, and all of us here will stop making you look stupid with facts.

[st.cronin]

Consider that 2 of Louisville's ooc games were absolute ass-kickings of Miami and Kentucky, and had they gone unbeaten, there would be zero controversy about them being in the title game.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Yep...and USC was one and two spots behind them in the final human polls, yet still finished ahead of them in the BCS rankings. You're telling me that it's impossible that UF or UM (who would have both been one and two spots behind L'ville in a final poll) could not have jumped the Cardinals due to their horrible CPU rankings?

Nothing is impossible, but the scenario you describe would be pretty close to impossible.

You are looking at the final polls, and not taking into account how they would be different with an undefeated Louisville. The vote totals for #2 and #3 were very close in both the USA Today and Harris polls. That is because there wasn't a consensus on who should be #2, Michigan or Florida. An undefeated Louisville would have been a consensus #2 in the human polls. Since percentage of the vote total is used for the human polls, this would have given Louisville an almost unsurmountable lead for the computer polls to overcome.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Not only that but they were ranked 3rd in the computer polls. The computers exacted a large penalty on them for losing to Rutgers. If they hadn't, I can't see the computers having them any lower than 4th. And with #2 in the Harris and Coaches, that would have definately been enough.

And, of course, before Rutgers lost to Cincy, they were ranked #2 in the computer polls.

Factor in the lack of improvement in the CPU polls for UL playing USF, Pitt & UConn while UF shot up the CPU polls for beating FSU & Arkansas in that timespan. You guys seem to think that teams don't drop in the CPU polls when they win. Just playing those three teams would have been enough to drop L'ville behind UF.

Meh...go look for yourself. UL only improved .04 points in the timespan between losing to Rutgers and finishing their season...UF moved up .14 in the CPU polls during that timeframe. The .10 point difference is enough to make up about 1.6 ranking spots in the composite human polls.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Factor in the lack of improvement in the CPU polls for UL playing USF, Pitt & UConn while UF shot up the CPU polls for beating FSU & Arkansas in that timespan. You guys seem to think that teams don't drop in the CPU polls when they win. Just playing those three teams would have been enough to drop L'ville behind UF.

Meh...go look for yourself. UL only improved .04 points in the timespan between losing to Rutgers and finishing their season...UF moved up .14 in the CPU polls during that timeframe. The .10 point difference is enough to make up about 1.6 ranking spots in the composite human polls.

And once again you ignore the tremendous hit they took after LOSING to Rutgers, which made them no longer undefeated, i.e the whole point of this exercise.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Logan

And once again you ignore the tremendous hit they took after LOSING to Rutgers, which made them no longer undefeated, i.e the whole point of this exercise.

Actually, you must have not comprehended what I wrote since I was only talking about the CPU fluxuation in the period of time after the loss to Rutgers...you know when Louisville had more chance to gain ground than UF? Even though there was more to gain, they didn't due to the SOS hit from finishing their Big East schedule.

What those numbers imply is that even if L'ville would have started ahead of other teams with a win over Rutgers, UF and UM (by virtue of just playing OSU) would have finished ahead of L'ville in the final CPU poll. By putting them at CPU #4 (or worse if USC would have still been ahead by virtue of the ND win), any difference in the human polls would have been negated.

[VPI97]

dola -

Either way, it's a good thing L'ville choked against Rutgers. That way we're going to actually have a good game tomorrow night instead of the potential of a massive OSU blowout over Louisville.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by VPI97

dola -

Either way, it's too bad Wisconsin choked against Michigan. That way we would actually have a good game tomorrow night instead of the potential of a massive OSU blowout over Florida.

fixed

[Logan]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Actually, you must have not comprehended what I wrote since I was only talking about the CPU fluxuation in the period of time after the loss to Rutgers...you know when Louisville had more chance to gain ground than UF? Even though there was more to gain, they didn't due to the SOS hit from finishing their Big East schedule.

What those numbers imply is that even if L'ville would have started ahead of other teams with a win over Rutgers, UF and UM (by virtue of just playing OSU) would have finished ahead of L'ville in the final CPU poll. By putting them at CPU #4 (or worse if USC would have still been ahead by virtue of the ND win), any difference in the human polls would have been negated.

Nope, I was right...you're an idiot. You said:

UL only improved .04 points in the timespan between losing to Rutgers and finishing their season...UF moved up .14 in the CPU polls during that timeframe. The .10 point difference is enough to make up about 1.6 ranking spots in the composite human polls.

All those numbers mean nothing, because you're saying they only moved .04 points (which wouldn't have been enough to make up whatever UF gained). But your number that UL is moving up from is a number that is significantly lower than it would have been had they beat Rutgers.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Meh...go look for yourself. UL only improved .04 points in the timespan between losing to Rutgers and finishing their season...UF moved up .14 in the CPU polls during that timeframe. The .10 point difference is enough to make up about 1.6 ranking spots in the composite human polls.

You do realize, if you look at Week 4 of the BCS, in the computer polls, Louisville was up on UF by 0.10, right?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings?week=4

And interestingly, after Louisville lost in Week 5, UF actually dropped in their computer number from .810 to .800.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings?week=5

I'm positive Louisville would have gone up from their .910 if they defeated Rutgers, a team ranked 13th in the BCS at the time (and 9th in computer average).

Hell, in fact, after Rutgers beat Louisville, it's computer rating was .950, which is .150 above Florida that week.

If Louisville beat Rutgers, I'd imagine they'd be between .920 and .950, Florida would have been .800. Florida gaining 0.14 would have given them .940. Louisville, even if they were still at .910 after the Rutgers game, gaining 0.04, would have given them .950. So Louisville would have finished AHEAD in the computers... and ahead in the human polls.

So sorry, try again... or better yet, if you don't want to look like a fool, don't .

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Logan

Nope, I was right...you're an idiot. You said:

I guess it says something about the validity of your argument since you've moved more towards personal insults.

All those numbers mean nothing, because you're saying they only moved .04 points (which wouldn't have been enough to make up whatever UF gained). But your number that UL is moving up from is a number that is significantly lower than it would have been had they beat Rutgers.

Again...you haven't understood what I'm saying...L'ville only moved .04 points up with their final three wins despite the fact that a) they had more room to move up than had they defeated Rutgers (due to being lower in the CPU rankings) and b)USC/Mich/LSU all lost.

People can say that the voters would have kept the Cardinals at #2 despite the polls keeping Mich there after their loss the next week, but you can't dispute that the cPU movement of L'ville was stagnant with their last three wins while a team like UF shot up the charts due to their final games.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I guess it says something about the validity of your argument since you've moved more towards personal insults.


Again...you haven't understood what I'm saying...L'ville only moved .04 points up with their final three wins despite the fact that a) they had more room to move up than had they defeated Rutgers (due to being lower in the CPU rankings) and b)USC/Mich/LSU all lost.

People can say that the voters would have kept the Cardinals at #2 despite the polls keeping Mich there after their loss the next week, but you can't dispute that the cPU movement of L'ville was stagnant with their last three wins while a team like UF shot up the charts due to their final games.

No, I'm not misunderstanding what you're saying. And I'll leave it at that.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Logan

No, I'm not misunderstanding what you're saying. And I'll leave it at that.

Yes, you are.

[ISiddiqui]

Read my post above... he isn't.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Read my post above... he isn't.

Your post wasn't very valid since is seemed like you didn't have much understanding of how the CPU polls worked. Your example would have been good if the CPU point numbers were awarded in a compliation methodology, but it's a percentile methodology...and that renders your calculations as not being applicable.

[Swaggs]

Bobby Petrino to the Atlanta Falcons, it appears.

That will not help the Big East next season. I would imagine this will have a very big effect on Bush and Brohm's decisions whether to stay at UL or declare for the NFL.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Bobby Petrino to the Atlanta Falcons, it appears.

That will not help the Big East next season. I would imagine this will have a very big effect on Bush and Brohm's decisions whether to stay at UL or declare for the NFL.

Bad for the Big East, but good for Rutgers and WVU.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by VPI97

dola -

Either way, it's a good thing L'ville choked against Rutgers. That way we're going to actually have a good game tomorrow night instead of the potential of a massive OSU blowout over Louisville.

You mean like the Oklahoma blowout over Boise State?

[st.cronin]

Louisville is a good enough program now that I don't think this is that big a deal. I think, like Boise State, they'll just plug in the next guy and motor on.

[Logan]

My only concern for them is...where do you go from here? It's getting late pretty early.

[cartman]

Early word is that L'ville is going to go after Kragthorpe of Tulsa as their new coach.

[WVUFAN]

C'mon, VPI -- you're fighting a losing battle, and you know it.

You hate the Big East. We get it. You hate West Virginia. We get it. Just admit that for this year, the Big East had a pretty doggone good conference. You say South Florida isn't even a decent team. They won their bowl game convincingly. Cincinnati, who had the #3 toughest SOS in college football this year, won their bowl game. Rutgers dominated their game (as I said before, they deserved a bigger game than what they got). West Virginia, the #2 team in the Big East, beat the #2 team in the ACC. Louisville beat the ACC Champion.

You say you're rather have a bunch of decent teams and no bad ones. I'd rather have at least one team that had people in the media talking NC title game -- the Big East had THREE teams that at one point were all ranked in the Top 10.

I'll admit that normally the ACC has a fantastic conference. Not this year. The Big East were above and beyond anything the ACC had.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Stuff.

I agree with you on all points.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

The big east is example A of how to pad records...look at rutgers schedule a few posts up. Its a joke....they play 2 games all year worth a damn, and maryland is average at best. So 2.5 if your nice. So they will have a great record, but so will boise state. Doesnt mean their top 15 material

Rutgers was scheduling these teams when they themselves sucked ass. So 1) You know they wanted to schedule some wins and 2) It's generally hard to get a big boy to play you when you're a lowly turd.

If I hear an annoucnement today that we're playing Norfolk State in 2012, id be pissed.

On the other hand I know we have likea 6-7 year series with Notre Dame starting in 2010 or so, so you cannot say Rutgers isn't trying to improve the out of confrence schedule.

Honestly, scheduling is very hard unless you always suck or are always great. Its toughest in general on the teams going through short term rises or falls... they end up with schedules that just dont match up with their level of play.

[ISiddiqui]

Wow... losing Petrino will hurt the BE. I'm hoping Louisville doesn't do a nose dive and Kragthorpe keeps them on the same keel they've been on recently.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

I guess I'll have to be the one to point out the OBVIOUS flaw in this ranking: how can you possibly list the MAC ahead of CUSA this year? That's just redonkulous!

Keep in mind I made the list before the GMAC bowl kicked off.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

. I haven't looked at UConn's schedule

He he.

@ Duke
Maine
Temple
@ Virginia
Akron

[cartman]

My observation on these soft schedules is this. If they automatically lead to a great season, then how come Boise State is the only team that can seem to consistently take advantage of them? If it was such an easy way to a great season, then you'd think more teams would have a record such as Boise State's over the past 6 seasons. The Smurfturfers have 12 more wins than the next closest non-BCS team over the past 5 seasons.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by cartman

My observation on these soft schedules is this. If they automatically lead to a great season, then how come Boise State is the only team that can seem to consistently take advantage of them? If it was such an easy way to a great season, then you'd think more teams would have a record such as Boise State's over the past 6 seasons. The Smurfturfers have 12 more wins than the next closest non-BCS team over the past 5 seasons.

I made this point repeatedly when Rutgers was undefeated and people were knocking them for the "soft" schedule: A loss to a team that you're supposed to beat hurts you a hell of a lot more than a victory over a team you shouldn't beat helps you. It's what ruins seasons and there's plenty of examples of this from this year alone. It's a big accomplishment to beat all the teams on your schedule that you're supposed to.

[gstelmack]

Do we want to rethink that Big 10 ranking again?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Early word is that L'ville is going to go after Kragthorpe of Tulsa as their new coach.

Louisville has apparently lost the commitment of Matt Simms, Phil's other kid. USF might be his destination.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Either way, it's a good thing L'ville choked against Rutgers. That way we're going to actually have a good game tomorrow night instead of the potential of a massive OSU blowout over Louisville.

I bow before your superior knowledge and insight into college football.

[Swaggs]

...and, with the Ohio State loss, the Big East is the only conference to win their BCS games in 2006 and 2007 (and yes, I realize that the B10 won 2 last year and the SEC won 2 this year).