Battlestar Galactica Season 3

[SirFozzie]

Hope the fight between the NBC Universal folks and the writers for BSG doesn't ruin the show, although NBCU seizing 10 Webisodes that the writers had finished but not given to NBC (cuz they weren't getting residuals for them) isn't a good sign.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15264007/site/newsweek/

[ISiddiqui]

That was such a kick ass space battle and final scene(s). Just perfect. The look on Tigh's face as he was walking away while Adama was trying to look back while the crowd carried him away was just a wonderful scene.

[PraetorianX]

Well, I must say that last nights episode was one of the best hours of television I've watched in quite some time. Just awesome, just awesome.

Those Battlestars sure can take a beating! Damn! And Galactica's fump into the atmosphere and falling like a brick while the Vipers launch out then jumping away...brilliant. I nearly had to change my pants! They should definately win the Emmy for visual effects.

And Michael Hogan (Col. Tigh) was brilliant, and he's been so brilliant all season thus far! And Kate Vernon (Ellen Tigh) did very very well too. I never liked the Ellen character but I still felt really bad.

[cougarfreak]

Wow..........what an episode. I just watched it on my dvr from last night. Far, far and away one of the best episodes of a tv show I've seen in a long time. I hope they carry this series a long time.

[Raven Hawk]

Great episode! I actually had to watch it twice it was so good!

[Bonegavel]

Ding Dong the witch is dead. I would've thought they'd keep her around a bit longer, but it needed to be done to hammer home what they were going through. If he had spared her it would've ruined the whole occupation for me.

My eyes welled up when Adama left his quarters after shaving and he looked around at everyone milling about the hallways.

Maybe it's just me, but I felt nothing when it comes to the Kacey/Kara thread. Seeing starbuck in "pain" like that felt forced. I think it would've been a bit more interesting for her to instantly shrug it off and maybe cast a worried glance after the girl as she ran off to her mom. I think that Kara would've killed the child in the apartment even if she did think it was half hers.

[cougarfreak]

Anybody recommend any good sci fi book series?

[Kodos]

Just caught up last night. Great episode. Loved the sacrificing of Pegasus to save Galactica. I love this show.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Anybody recommend any good sci fi book series?

Honor Harrington series
Starfire Series (The Stars at War)

two right at the top of my mind

[Fonzie]

That was an excellent episode.

Was I the only one having flashbacks to Journey's "Faithfully" video when Adama was shaving off his 'stache?

[bosshogg23]

Link

Battlestar Galactica is starting the 2nd half of this season(they have 4 weeks off over the holidays) by moving to Sunday nights at 10 PM EST. I know the ratings weren't what they were hoping for I don't paticularly like the move. At least its not starting until Sunday Night Football is over with.

[PraetorianX]

Originally Posted by bosshogg23

Link

Battlestar Galactica is starting the 2nd half of this season(they have 4 weeks off over the holidays) by moving to Sunday nights at 10 PM EST. I know the ratings weren't what they were hoping for I don't paticularly like the move. At least its not starting until Sunday Night Football is over with.

God Sci-fi sucks. I knew things were heading downhill when they put the ECW on Sci-fi. They should have stuck with their original Sci-fi Friday lineup that was doing very well (Stargate SG-1/Stargate: Atlatnis/Battlestar Galactica).

The ratings aren't doing so well because of, A.) The LOOOOOONG break between "Lay Down Your Burdens, Pt. 2' and 'Occupation/Precipice', B.) Changing the timeslot, C.) Screwing with their very solid Friday lineup and D.) being run by idiots.

Now they're moving in for the kill.


And WHERE is Ron Moore's dang podcast this week!

[ISiddiqui]

Sunday nights? Huh? That's a strange time change.

[Bad-example]

Boxing gloves. Traditional boxing ring. A bell at the end of each round. Dog tags. The list of things that clearly don't have any logical place on BSG continues to grow. I wish I could silence my inner critic but I just can't. Suspension of disbelief can be a fragile thing. Mine started showing cracks with the decision to dress civilians in contemporary fashions. I can accept that some things are inherently human, like eyeglasses and eating utensils. But they just mix in too many items that clearly don't belong in a society thousands of years seperated from our own.

I really want to like this show.They do a lot of things very well. But I have to wonder how good this show could have been if it were on HBO.

[bosshogg23]

This show was about giving the history we didn't see.

It made the history hard to follow.

But it makes the future more interesting because we now know the exact situations IMO.

[Coop]

I was not looking foward to this episode but I was surprise how good it was. Adama seems to enjoy calling everybody a fatass though :P

btw, the podcast for hero is finally up now.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Boxing gloves. Traditional boxing ring. A bell at the end of each round. Dog tags. The list of things that clearly don't have any logical place on BSG continues to grow. I wish I could silence my inner critic but I just can't. Suspension of disbelief can be a fragile thing. Mine started showing cracks with the decision to dress civilians in contemporary fashions. I can accept that some things are inherently human, like eyeglasses and eating utensils. But they just mix in too many items that clearly don't belong in a society thousands of years seperated from our own.

I really want to like this show.They do a lot of things very well. But I have to wonder how good this show could have been if it were on HBO.

HRm, this is a military vessel, with military personell...why would boxing be any different than what we came up with? its a pretty simplistic form of sport and excercise with very few possible variations on how to protect your hands or demark the fighting arena...why is this an issue for you? As for dog tags, they've had those from the beginning, and again if you think about the situation, the simplest and most effective way to track someone's ID is by a removable tag, in duplicate so that one tag can be filed and the body still retains one.

Really not getting your issues with those items, I do agree that the fashions are a bit of a put off, but hey, they have a budget to consider, simply easier to go shopping at k-mart and film the show.

As for how it would have been if done by HBO, I doubt it would be as good. HBO has shown a talent for reality based series, but BSG isn't based in reality, its science Fiction. So thinking HBO would have done any better is a bit foolish IMHO.

They're society isn't thousands of years apart from our own, look at the technology level. its truly not that far ahead of what we have. A few farily small jumps in communications, radar/scanning, and the whole FTL thing and we'd be amazingly the same.

I think your inner critic is trying to put too much emphasis on "they're so far advanced of us" when they're really not.

[Bad-example]

My HBO comment was that they have a great history regarding attention to detail and willingness to spend money to get things right. They are the gold standard when it comes to television, and it is a safe assumption BSG would be a far better show were HBO making it.

The boxing was just too close to what we do here. The 13th colony broke away thousands of years ago. It is just unbelievable when things on BSG too closely mirror present day Earth. Make the ring a circle or multi-leveled. Make the ropes at least a little different from modern day. When things on this spaceship are too much like contemporary America, it just screams "cheap and/or lazy".

As far as the dog tags go, again, too similar. I don't have a problem with the concept...it is the implementation. The tags are *exactly* the same as we use.

And finally, their civilization is indeed thousands of years removed from Earth. As I mentioned above, the 13th colony lost contact and came to Earth thousands of years ago. So most things we have here today would be ridiculously out of place light years away on a ship with a seperate history from ours.

[Thomkal]

Just watched the last episode and thought it was by far the worse one-perhaps the only one I'm really disappointed in. Didn't like the boxing ring stuff and the flashbacks to New Caprica. Didn't learn anything new about the Cylons or Baltar or the search for Earth. Just felt like a waste of an episode.

[SFL Cat]

This show sucks.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

The boxing was just too close to what we do here. The 13th colony broke away thousands of years ago. It is just unbelievable when things on BSG too closely mirror present day Earth. Make the ring a circle or multi-leveled. Make the ropes at least a little different from modern day. When things on this spaceship are too much like contemporary America, it just screams "cheap and/or lazy".

Watching Triad on the original series, I'm fine with them not "reimagaining" a sport to make it more "space like."

That said, boxing is thousands of years old on this planet. Based on the lore of the series, the 13th colony came here thousands of years ago. Wouldn't it be logical by extension that the 13th colony may have been the ones who brought boxing here? By that logic, the far more difficult thing to believe is that a civilization advanced enough to master space travel and locate to Earth would abandon all of their technology and take thousands of years to advance to where their civilization had been before.

Far from being cheap or lazy, I think it's smart and sophisticated because it works on different levels. It's a reminder of how closley linked the original colonies are to the 13th tribe. I think the producers picked one of the few sports that would logically date back to the colonies. It's not liked they are playing a contemporary sport like football or baseball with complicated rules that would unlikely have any link to the colonies.

Same thing with dog tags -- there is a history of dog tags going back to at least ancient Rome. If those things are bothering, I think you're just looking for things to be bothered by.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

boxing is thousands of years old on this planet. Based on the lore of the series, the 13th colony came here thousands of years ago. Wouldn't it be logical by extension that the 13th colony may have been the ones who brought boxing here?

Again, I am not saying that boxing is out of place on BSG. What *is* out of place is the way it looks. A square ring with three ropes? Boxing gloves that almost look like an advertisement for Everlast? I don't think those things existed in that form 5000 years ago, even if the Egyptians or Mayans were boxing.

Originally Posted by kcchief19

By that logic, the far more difficult thing to believe is that a civilization advanced enough to master space travel and locate to Earth would abandon all of their technology and take thousands of years to advance to where their civilization had been before.

I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this. A crash upon arriving that left an Adam and Eve situation could explain humanity having to basically start over from scratch.

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Same thing with dog tags -- there is a history of dog tags going back to at least ancient Rome. If those things are bothering, I think you're just looking for things to be bothered by.

The concept of dog tags I am fine with. They make sense. A military needs to be able to identify bodies. That they look *exactly* like the ones we use just stretches the limits of believability.

There are other examples. Adama building a model of a sailing ship right out of the 17th century. The Hummer Starbuck drove in season 2, complete with rectangular metallic license plate. As I said, I really want to like this show. But for me, things like this just make it tough.

[ISiddiqui]

Have to agree with RendeR and kcchief. Boxing is a very simple sport and has survived, basically the same for a great number of years. I have no problems with them having a similar boxing sport that we do in 2006.

Aside from that, I liked this episode. A slower episode, but one giving a bit of backstory and adding a little more complexity to the characters. Starbuck sleeping with Apollo and procliaming her love for him across the desert and then marrying Anders the next morning was very jarring for Lee.

[Bonegavel]

Biggest gaff of all is that they speak modern-day English! Shouldn't it be some form of proto-latin or whatnot?

I think they just need an FX Budget break and this episode gave it to them. I am sick of the Apollo/Starbuck tension, however.

If there isn't some wow!-factor reveal that explains all the similarities, budgetary concerns are good enough excuse for me. The meat of the story wasn't that the ring looked like one down at the corner gym. The meat was that we were glimpsing a time honored tradition to mix-it-up with your fellow man regardless of rank. I would have been more distracted by some fanciful "space like" interpretation of what their boxing ring might look like.

If the characters, story, and method of telling didn't gel with me so much, I probably would be finding the same faults.

[fenrrris]

I've got to agree that Friday's episode was weak, but I don't think it had much to do with the boxing. The dramatic credibility of the show is obviously more important than the factual credibility of the show's completely fictional history and that dramatic credibility was definitely done some harm here. Here's the problem: What the hell is up with Lee and Starbuck? They had some quick, dirty sex a season ago. Lee maintained (and even this premise is hard to sustain just on the basis of evidence presented before this episode) some sort of attraction to her. They slept together on New Caprica. They declared their love for each other. She left and got married before he woke up.
What!? Where's the development? What sense does any of that make? Why did she leave in the morning? Her conflicted devotion to Lee's dead brother just doesn't make for a convincing argument: The guy's been dead for almost three years now. She's slept around. She's survived an apocalypse. She never even seemed to like what'shisname(Anders?)! Even if they're still operating on that weak premise, we need some clear explication when the motivations are this subtle/poorly conceived.
Also, weak plot advancement. It's nice to know what happened on New Caprica, and Adama's reproach was interesting, but let's get moving here! I want to know where they're going! I want to know what the Cylons are going to do about it! I want to know what's going to happen!

[Tigercat]

Heres my thoughts on Starbuck/Lee: She still feels guilty about the brother dieing largely do to her actions(or inactions), and she doesn't think shes good enough for Lee/to have another close relationship like she had with his brother. So she chooses the lesser option that is more surface than her possible connection with Lee.

She got scared when she woke up, scared about what happened with his brother and to risk big and lose big again. I think because the other relationship happened before the apocalypse, its why it still affects her so strongly. As far as her relationships with men, that was her apocalypse.

Anyway, thats how I've seen it for a while, and thats why I enjoyed that part of the last episode, because it seems to fit in with that.

[primelord]

Why in the world would making the boxing ring a circle or adding more ropes make it a better show? What should the gloves look like? A fork is a pretty effective eating utensil. Should they change those too just for the sake of changing them?

If you want to talk about suspension of disbelief, making changes to simple tools just for the sake of changing them is a very quick way to destroy it. I think in order to change the boxing gloves they would need to show a reason why the new design is better. Can you think of a better way to design a boxing glove? Changing things just to make them look like they belong in space or more futuristic is the cheap and cheesy option if you ask me.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

She got scared when she woke up, scared about what happened with his brother and to risk big and lose big again. I think because the other relationship happened before the apocalypse, its why it still affects her so strongly. As far as her relationships with men, that was her apocalypse.

Yep, that's exactly it IMO. She wants to get close to Lee, but gets scared about the potential consequences everytime she does.

[fenrrris]

Okay, where did all of this start? How can we believe what's happening? The romantic relationship between Lee and Starbuck before this episode was malformed at best and probably a lot closer to non-existent. We had a glimpse of a sexual relationship, but it was only a brief flame and we were lead to believe that Starbuck was only in it for the sex anyway. I guess it could be as a result of an unspoken fear, or guilt, or character defect. That's the problem though, it's way too easy to get lost in speculation here.
I wouldn't have a problem with the relationship, but they needed to ground it somehow. Maybe Starbuck has been avoiding the relationship for fear of some (I'm not exactly sure what they would be) consequences, but I'm still curious. It's cheating to refer our curiousity to a plot device that they haven't properly installed.

Still, I can't wait for next week. BSG is way too good for a few weak plot points to knock it off its pedestal. Best show on television.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by primelord

Why in the world would making the boxing ring a circle or adding more ropes make it a better show? What should the gloves look like? A fork is a pretty effective eating utensil. Should they change those too just for the sake of changing them?

Originally Posted by Bad-example

I can accept that some things are inherently human, like eyeglasses and eating utensils.

I would say that making things look too different can be as much a mistake as making them look too much like contemporary times. It can be a fine line between making something look different enough and making them look plain silly.

Originally Posted by primelord

If you want to talk about suspension of disbelief, making changes to simple tools just for the sake of changing them is a very quick way to destroy it. I think in order to change the boxing gloves they would need to show a reason why the new design is better. Can you think of a better way to design a boxing glove? Changing things just to make them look like they belong in space or more futuristic is the cheap and cheesy option if you ask me.

The design doesn't have to be "better", just different. And not radically so, just enough to show they didn't borrow them from the local gym. But if a boxing ring and gloves straight out of HBO boxing doesn't bother you, that's great. Really. I am honestly a bit jealous that you can watch and not be bothered by things like that.

[PraetorianX]

Good episode I thought,

About the clothing and stuff...I don't think Moore wants to try and come up with more 'spacey' looking outfits (a la TOS) because in the end, Galactica is not about the science fiction but about the drama. It really is more of a Drama than a Sci-fi show. That, and Olmos and McDonnell would likely run away faster than the speed of light if they tried to dress them up in something more 'Sci-fi-y' Really, I'd say just watch the show and don't get concerned because everything looks similar to modern day stuff. They're on the Sci-fi channel afterall, it's not like they have a massive budget or anything.


As for the episode, I liked it...it explained why Kara was not too eager to ask Lee for the meds at the end of last season and why Lee was hesitant to give them (and ultimately didn't...but we don't know what would have happened had the Cylons not shown up) even though he knew Anders could die.

Anyway, it was a filler episode to keep the budget within reason after all the money they spent on the first several episodes (especially Exodus Pt. 2), Moore even says as much in his Podcast.

[Kodos]

Just saw the fall season finale last night. Pretty good episode. Who thinks that Gaius Baltar will end up being "the one" who knows the way to Earth and that ends up being his road to rejoining the Galactica crew?

[sachmo71]

I hate season ending cliffhangers! :MAD:

[Fonzie]

Perhaps someone here can illuminate one plot point I seem to have missed: why do the Cylons not know the identities of the Final Five?

[Travis]

They haven't been showing up to the Toasters Anonymous meetings, so far only the ones that have been revealed have been allowed to those meetings.

They did mention a reason a few episodes ago, I'll see if I can find it as I just kind of rolled my eyes at the time as that's been a pet peeve of mine with this show.

[Travis]

Quoting from Wikipedia

In the Season 3 episode "Torn", Gaius Baltar questions Number Six as to why only seven humanoid models appeared on New Caprica and why he has seen only these same seven aboard the Basestar. Six says that the Cylons do not talk about the other five models. Baltar, who has become worried that he may in fact be a Cylon himself, presses her on whether they would recognize one of the "final five". Their conversation ends abruptly, leaving the truth of the other models unknown.


In the Season 3 episode "Hero", Number Three has a dream immediately after she dies, where she sees five glowing figures. This leaves open many theories about the last five models being in some way holy or divine. As seen in the episode "The Passage", Number Three tries to hold on to the memory of their faces and draws pictures of them soon after downloading, but the memories fade and the drawings are too surreaslistic to be of practical use. It's clear that she does not consciously know what the final five look like.

[Fonzie]

Thanks Travis.

[Bad-example]

As an aside, isn't it pretty clear there are intermediate cylons we have not seen yet? I mean, the big toaster centurions don't seem to have the sophistication to have created the humanoid models. Shouldn't we at some point be seeing more complex machines?

[Coop]

During the episode Roslin said to adama "The Priest of Five worshiped the one who they cant speak of" I forget the exact wording but it was something like that

Great episode except the Lee/Kara stuff.

[JeffW]

I dislike the Lee/Kara love interest. Sometimes the writers for BSG are lazy.

[JeffW]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

There are other examples. Adama building a model of a sailing ship right out of the 17th century. The Hummer Starbuck drove in season 2, complete with rectangular metallic license plate. As I said, I really want to like this show. But for me, things like this just make it tough.

The show def. has problems with anachronisms, but it has more serious problems with believable plot lines at times. For example, why would Adama give Baltar the full nuclear warhead when all Baltar claimed he needed was the plutonium? Just having that warhead out there is a substantial security risk.

There have also been incidents with prisoners being freed and the complete lack of security cameras and safeguards against tampering with air supplies that stretch continuity.

Finally, the whole premise of the show--that the Cylons got ahold of a password that completely compromised humanity's computers--is a real stretch. How could the humans be so incompetent that they would use one password for all the computer systems and leave it in the hands of a flaky scientist vulnerable to coercion or manipulation.

I still watch the show, but the writers' laziness compromises the show's integrity.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by JeffW

Finally, the whole premise of the show--that the Cylons got ahold of a password that completely compromised humanity's computers--is a real stretch. How could the humans be so incompetent that they would use one password for all the computer systems and leave it in the hands of a flaky scientist vulnerable to coercion or manipulation.

I'll bite on this one, someone else can support/rebuff the others:

The cylons didn't just get a "password" as you desribe it, number 6, the one called "Caprica" who is baltar's love slut, actually gained access to the defense mainframe systems. She physically installed the means for the cylons to shut down the fleets computer networks during their attack. With the level of sophistication the cylons have with computers/systems/networks I find this to be the most perfect plot path.

This I find perfectly believable, hell if I were a cylon imitating a human this is exactly how I'd destroy my creators. If they can't fight back. I win.

[JeffW]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I'll bite on this one, someone else can support/rebuff the others:

The cylons didn't just get a "password" as you desribe it, number 6, the one called "Caprica" who is baltar's love slut, actually gained access to the defense mainframe systems. She physically installed the means for the cylons to shut down the fleets computer networks during their attack. With the level of sophistication the cylons have with computers/systems/networks I find this to be the most perfect plot path.

This I find perfectly believable, hell if I were a cylon imitating a human this is exactly how I'd destroy my creators. If they can't fight back. I win.

Eh, I may have gotten the details wrong(it's been 2 years or something since I watched the pilot), but I find it discontinuous that one open port(whatever organization #6 infilitrated) could lead to the downfall of an such an advanced civilization that knew it would be targetted by the cylon computer experts.

[Bonegavel]

There has to be a connection between the Temple of 5 and the 5 unknown cyclons.

[Bonegavel]

dola,

i don't swallow the hole "starbuck can't fall for lee because she'll be afraid that something will happen to him" thing.

Please. Zak died because he was a shitty pilot and she knows that. Lee is obviously not a shitty pilot. I think it was so much better when the tension between them was related to rank and her being a prick and not some unrequited-love, blah-blah hackneyed crap.

Starbuck is not a character you feel sorry for. Sure, she is the person you want sitting next to you in a viper when the shit has hit the fan, but back on the ship and the day-to-day stuff she is the person everyone hates because she is just a dick.

They need to stop trying to make us give a shit about Starbuck. She is a weapon and a good ball buster, that's it.

[Thomkal]

Liked the "final" episode of the season-some very interesting possiblities about Baltar. I too hate the Lee/Starbuck love affair. Not the right time for it, would have been better when she thought her now husband was dead and she would never see him again.

I'm perhaps more interested in why the Chief was "chosen" to find the temple and what results from it. Be nice to see him get more involved in the storyline. Though I kept screaming at the screen. "Just touch the eye on that column and get it over with Chief!"

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

There has to be a connection between the Temple of 5 and the 5 unknown cyclons.

Yeah, it seems very interesting as far as the numbers go. Maybe the 5 Cylons are actually Humanity's Gods in Cylon form?

Oh, and I agree with the poster who said Baltar seems to be the "prophesied one" the Cylon basestar captain thing was talking about. Though those hints could have just meant to throw us for a loop and it is actually Chief.. or Adm Adama, or whoever.

[Kodos]

Or the President. After all, she had that whole "lead them to Earth before I die" thing last season.

[PraetorianX]

Originally Posted by JeffW

Eh, I may have gotten the details wrong(it's been 2 years or something since I watched the pilot), but I find it discontinuous that one open port(whatever organization #6 infilitrated) could lead to the downfall of an such an advanced civilization that knew it would be targetted by the cylon computer experts.

Well, it was not only that...iirc #6 wrote parts of Baltar's software that was installed on pretty much all the Battlestars/Vipers, it was by making a backdoor into that which allowed the Cylons to so easily destroy the Colonial navy.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by PraetorianX

Well, it was not only that...iirc #6 wrote parts of Baltar's software that was installed on pretty much all the Battlestars/Vipers, it was by making a backdoor into that which allowed the Cylons to so easily destroy the Colonial navy.

Yeah. They had all the tactical information on the entire Colonial military, plus the backdoors into the ships, thanks to Baltar/6.