Why hasn't Jim Bowden been fired yet? He Quit. LOL!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Glad to see that I'm not so out of touch with baseball that I've got the same general opinion of this deal that the consensus here is.

But it's very weird to see Bowden have the clear advantage in a trade like this.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But it's very weird to see Bowden have the clear advantage in a trade like this.

Yeah - when you get your ass handed to you in a Jim Bowden trade, there is something out of whack with the universe.

[wade moore]

Ok, I'm mad about this for very selfish reasons...

Both Bill Bray and Brendan Harris were recent graduations from my alma mater that I'm very passionate about, William and Mary. We had exactly 0 MLB players 2 years ago, now we have three with these two and Chris Ray in Baltimore. To have them all within' driving distance was cool, but I never got up to a Nats game to see them.. now they're in Cincy ...

[Booj]

I was surprised to see this trade being done, but I like it as a Nats fan... Wagner I think can still be a good reliever and Lopez is an absolute upgrade over Clayton/Guzman. Kearns, I've always liked and it will be interesting to see where they fit him in.

[TurnerONU22]

I'm not so sure that this is a lopsided deal, everyone here seems to think that Kearns and Lopez are terrific players, and I don't see that. Lopez is still getting too much credit for a great first half last year, and he is horrible defensively on a team that needs help in that regard. Kearns is a good player, but has had injury problems that he has really never recovered from. Wagner is in this deal because Bowden messed up his career from the start, brought him up 2 months after he was drafted (first in his draft class to reach the majors) and got rocked soon there after. Arm troubles (and confidence problems?) after that and he hasn't been the same

And from the Reds point of view, their bullpen was terrible, and they have plenty of depth in the OF.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, but the Reds got two pitchers that really haven't distinguished themselves this year, and that's while playing at an extreme pitchers park.

[TheGreatestManAlive]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeah, but the Reds got two pitchers that really haven't distinguished themselves this year, and that's while playing at an extreme pitchers park.

That extreme pitchers park nonsense is going to disapeer soon. RFK was that way last year due to a home team that was heavy on pitching with no bats to speak of. This year, with more power in Soriano and Zimmerman, as well as a weaker staff, RFK is playing closer to the norm. It's a good pitchers park, but not by that much.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by TheGreatestManAlive

That extreme pitchers park nonsense is going to disapeer soon. RFK was that way last year due to a home team that was heavy on pitching with no bats to speak of. This year, with more power in Soriano and Zimmerman, as well as a weaker staff, RFK is playing closer to the norm. It's a good pitchers park, but not by that much.

Park effects are determined by looking at the differential of teams at home and on the road. Having a heavy pitching, light hitting team doesn't warp the park effect like that. Even if RFK plays a little better for hitters this year, to say that it is "nonsense" that RFK is an extreme pitchers park relative to the rest of the league seems a little strong.

[John Galt]

For fun, I started up Baseball Mogul as the Nats. I made the trade offer exactly as it occurred yesterday. The Reds GM response was:

"I hate my job. Shoot me now."

[cschex]

FWIW, Clayton isn't exactly the clear defensive upgrade over Lopez that everyone thinks he is. This isn't Roybe Clayton of 3 years ago, his defense has been steadily declining. For that matter, he is the definition of an offensive black hole, while Lopex gets on base 35% of the time and has solid power for an MI even in a "down" season. And he is only 26. If his defense is that awful and completely outweighing his offensive contirbution, then flip him and Phillips (as Phillips is apparently the SS of the future anyway).

As for Kearns, even though the Reds have an in house replacemnt for him, the reason the Reds got swindled in this trade is because I can't believe this is the best package they could get for two young, above-average starting position players who are still under team control for a couple of more years. Two decent to good MI's, a bench player, Royce Clayton, and a pitching prospect with injury problems. Even if it doesn't hurt the Reds so much on the field, they needed to get more value back in the trade.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by cschex

FWIW, Clayton isn't exactly the clear defensive upgrade over Lopez that everyone thinks he is. This isn't Roybe Clayton of 3 years ago, his defense has been steadily declining. For that matter, he is the definition of an offensive black hole, while Lopex gets on base 35% of the time and has solid power for an MI even in a "down" season. And he is only 26. If his defense is that awful and completely outweighing his offensive contirbution, then flip him and Phillips (as Phillips is apparently the SS of the future anyway).

As for Kearns, even though the Reds have an in house replacemnt for him, the reason the Reds got swindled in this trade is because I can't believe this is the best package they could get for two young, above-average starting position players who are still under team control for a couple of more years. Two decent to good MI's, a bench player, Royce Clayton, and a pitching prospect with injury problems. Even if it doesn't hurt the Reds so much on the field, they needed to get more value back in the trade.

And Bray's track record really isn't much different than Wagner's. They both were first round picks who were relievers from the start. Bray hasn't really been that consistent in the minors and has very limited major league experience. He could easily implode like Wagner. And although Wagner is down, they have similar upsides. So, Bray has an advantage for now over Wagner, but not that much.

Majewski has been a good reliever, but nothing to set the world on fire. His peripherals this year give some cause for concern. It's much easier to dig up two league average to above average middle relievers than it is to find starting quality OF's and SS's with upside.

I also agree that Clayton is on a defensive decline and not nearly the upgrade on that side as Reds fans would hope.

From the Nats perspective, they need SS defense less than most teams with a pitching staff that probably has the highest flyball ratio in the league (although I haven't checked the stats on that).

[TheGreatestManAlive]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Park effects are determined by looking at the differential of teams at home and on the road. Having a heavy pitching, light hitting team doesn't warp the park effect like that. Even if RFK plays a little better for hitters this year, to say that it is "nonsense" that RFK is an extreme pitchers park relative to the rest of the league seems a little strong.

2005 Ballpark Effect (RFK): 2006:
Runs .860 (29th) 1.092 (7th)
HR .775 (28th) .886 (23rd)
Hits .851 (30th) 1.062 (6th)
2B .888 (22nd) 1.076 (9th)
3B 1.051 (14th) 2.186 (3rd)
BB .953 (25th) .989 (18th)


That's right, the change is immense. For those who don't know, the system for ballpark effect works out so that anything under 1 favors the pitcher and anything over 1 favors the hitter. RFK has gone from extreme pitchers park to bordering on extreme hitters park in one season. The pitching/hitting changes of the Nats that I mentioned already are why I believe that to be so. Other that HR's, RFK doesn't play like a hitters park this year.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by TheGreatestManAlive

2005 Ballpark Effect (RFK): 2006:
Runs .860 (29th) 1.092 (7th)
HR .775 (28th) .886 (23rd)
Hits .851 (30th) 1.062 (6th)
2B .888 (22nd) 1.076 (9th)
3B 1.051 (14th) 2.186 (3rd)
BB .953 (25th) .989 (18th)


That's right, the change is immense. For those who don't know, the system for ballpark effect works out so that anything under 1 favors the pitcher and anything over 1 favors the hitter. RFK has gone from extreme pitchers park to bordering on extreme hitters park in one season. The pitching/hitting changes of the Nats that I mentioned already are why I believe that to be so. Other that HR's, RFK doesn't play like a hitters park this year.

I admitted the park is playing more like a hitter's park this year, but it is a smaller sample size (and to call it an "extreme hitters park" while it is still depressing HR's and not at the top of any offensive category seems weird). At the end of the year, we will see how strong the change has been. Either way, your statement that it only appeared to be a strong pitcher's park because of the Nats lineup last year was just wrong and that was the primary reason I was posting.

Sometimes, it takes a couple years for it to be clear what the actual park effects are. With that being said, lots of parks that depress HR increase 2B, 3B (because the OF's are bigger), so that isn't terribly surprising. The R's being over 1 is the bigger surpise, but again, with a small sample, we don't know for sure. I think it likely that the number will drop closer to 1 for R's as the year goes on and will probably play below 1 in future years. But we will see.

[Toddzilla]

So now the Nats go and do something kinda vexxing. They signed Luis Matos (.207/.278/.331 with two home runs and five RBI in 55 games with Baltimore) and cut Marlon Byrd (.223/.317/.350 with five homers in 197 at-bats). I know those two aren't real earth shakers, but if you consider that the Nats CF is going to have to play between Soriano and Kearns, Byrd seems like the choice here. In the games I've seen, he's been fnatastic with the glove. Add to that his hitting is weak as opposed to paltry, and I don't get it.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

So now the Nats go and do something kinda vexxing. They signed Luis Matos (.207/.278/.331 with two home runs and five RBI in 55 games with Baltimore) and cut Marlon Byrd (.223/.317/.350 with five homers in 197 at-bats). I know those two aren't real earth shakers, but if you consider that the Nats CF is going to have to play between Soriano and Kearns, Byrd seems like the choice here. In the games I've seen, he's been fnatastic with the glove. Add to that his hitting is weak as opposed to paltry, and I don't get it.

They both suck and there really isn't any significant difference between them. Matos is a year younger, FWIW. I think the Nats took a flyer on Byrd, it didn't work, and now they want to take a flyer on another failed prospect. I don't really see a problem with that.

[TheGreatestManAlive]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

So now the Nats go and do something kinda vexxing. They signed Luis Matos (.207/.278/.331 with two home runs and five RBI in 55 games with Baltimore) and cut Marlon Byrd (.223/.317/.350 with five homers in 197 at-bats). I know those two aren't real earth shakers, but if you consider that the Nats CF is going to have to play between Soriano and Kearns, Byrd seems like the choice here. In the games I've seen, he's been fnatastic with the glove. Add to that his hitting is weak as opposed to paltry, and I don't get it.

Matos does seem to have great speed and I would venture to guess better range in the OF, so I would think it's a defensive upgrade. With that said, the offense is like trading an anorexic for a bulimic.

[Terps]

Don't get your hopes up with Luis, he's awful.

[Butter]

Just so you know, in a recent local poll, 63% of Reds fans asked felt the team got the shaft with this deal. So it's not like we're trying to put a happy face on this one. We're not happy with it either. The consensus amongst my friends is that the package the Reds gave up should've at least yielded the 2 MR's plus Chad Cordero.

But the paper hinted that the Reds were tiring of Lopez's lackluster work ethic, and Narron said as much when he said something like "Felipe can be as good as he wants to be." Wagner's been horrendous in the minors, though, and the Reds might've milked the best season that Lopez is ever going to have out of him... so perhaps in the long run the trade won't seem so lopsided.

For now though, it looks like shit.

[Bee]

To me it looks like the Nationals got the better end of the deal, but considering the age of most of the guys involved this could look much different in a couple years than it does today. That being said, I'm glad to see Kearns in DC since I thought last year he looked like someone who could really develop into a big time player.

[Toddzilla]

Holy crap - ESPN is reporting that the Nats are ready to pull the trigger on a deal which would send Soriano to the White Sox for....a middle reliever.

That would close the book on Jimmy Bow once and for all.

[Subby]

Don't you think Kasten is signing off on everythign now?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Holy crap - ESPN is reporting that the Nats are ready to pull the trigger on a deal which would send Soriano to the White Sox for....a middle reliever.

That would close the book on Jimmy Bow once and for all.

He can't be THAT dumb, can he?

[ChiMatt]

The only name I saw was Brandon McCarthy. He's only in the bullpen because the Sox rotation is so deep. He is a starting pitcher and a great pitching prospect who has done well in his time in the big leagues.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Holy crap - ESPN is reporting that the Nats are ready to pull the trigger on a deal which would send Soriano to the White Sox for....a middle reliever.

That would close the book on Jimmy Bow once and for all.

The so-called middle-reliever is Brandon McCarthy. That middle-reliever was one of the top pitching prospects in baseball just a year ago and has been broken in primarily in middle relief (ala Santana and Liriano). He is only 23 years old and many think he is likely to turn into a good number 2 starter.

And from the reports I have read, McCarthy is just ONE of the players likely to be included. I would be quite happy if Soriano turned into McCarthy and Fields and/or Broadway.

There is no reason to condemn Bowden until the trade is done.

[Bee]

One of the guys at work said he heard the Nats were asking for McCarthy and two other prospects. He didn't know who the other two guys were.

Edit: That was from some Nationals forum he goes to, so who knows the validity.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

So now the Nats go and do something kinda vexxing. They signed Luis Matos (.207/.278/.331 with two home runs and five RBI in 55 games with Baltimore) and cut Marlon Byrd (.223/.317/.350 with five homers in 197 at-bats). I know those two aren't real earth shakers, but if you consider that the Nats CF is going to have to play between Soriano and Kearns, Byrd seems like the choice here. In the games I've seen, he's been fnatastic with the glove. Add to that his hitting is weak as opposed to paltry, and I don't get it.

Kearns is excellent defensively and should be able to handle center field without a problem.

The big knock on McCarthy since he arrived in the majors has been his gopheritis. 13 in 67 MLB innings last season and another 8 in 50 this year. In the minors he struck out over a guy per inning, gave up under a hit per inning and really didnt walk many hitters. If you can do all of those things well, a few extra HRs won't hurt. See Schilling, Curt for a classic example even though he's not really a good comp here.

This season, McCarthy is walking more hitters and striking out less. Maybe I'm missing something (I've only seen him pitch one inning this year) but he looks like a slightly better version of Scott Elarton to me.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Kearns is excellent defensively and should be able to handle center field without a problem.

The big knock on McCarthy since he arrived in the majors has been his gopheritis. 13 in 67 MLB innings last season and another 8 in 50 this year. In the minors he struck out over a guy per inning, gave up under a hit per inning and really didnt walk many hitters. If you can do all of those things well, a few extra HRs won't hurt. See Schilling, Curt for a classic example even though he's not really a good comp here.

This season, McCarthy is walking more hitters and striking out less. Maybe I'm missing something (I've only seen him pitch one inning this year) but he looks like a slightly better version of Scott Elarton to me.

A pitcher with flyball tendencies will definitely do better in RFK (see John Patterson). I think you are selling McCarthy a bit short. His K rate is still solid (although it is tricky to project middle reliever numbers to starter numbers), he has three plus pitches, and is only 23. He is also 6'7" with low to mid 90's power (ie he isn't Jon Rauch). I can't seem him as worse than a 5th starter in the Majors and I think it is more likely he will be closer to a good 2nd starter. However, you never can tell, but nothing about his record in the Majors makes me worry too much. Everyone can't start out like Liriano. His HR rate is a worry, but that is why he is better playing for the Nats than the Sox.

[Fighter of Foo]

I saw him pitch several times in August/September last year...was really big on him as a prospect coming up. I know he's got a very good scouting report and certainly looks like he should be excellent, but I just don't see it anymore.

Moving from starter to reliever should generally increase a pitcher's strikeout rate and lower their ERA. Heilman for the Mets was regarded as a very good starting pitcher prospect (not as good as McCarthy) and he's been very good to excellent in relief the last calendar year. Gagne was a middling 4th/5th starter who became absolutely nasty in relief until his elbow blew. Not saying McCarthy could/should be like these guys, but he shouldn't stagnate or regress. That's what worries me.

Last point of concern: Compare the minor league numbers of McCarthy:

http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com...layer.cgi?5326

to Brandon Duckworth (former Phils prospect with a similar profile, 3 plus pitches, good track record, etc.) Phils and ChiSox play in the same league through most of the minors IIRC.

http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com...layer.cgi?2638

More than fair point on RFK though. Certainly helped Patterson. If McCarthy can go back to missing more bats I'll like him again. I guess we'll see.

And, yes, I'm bored at work.

[kcchief19]

Delayed reaction here, but I continue to be somewhat flabbergasted by the trade. The Royals tried to get Kearns out of Cincinnati for years and were rebuffed and told it required Zack Greinke plus something else, which was way more than the Royals were ready willing to spend. I have no doubt, however, the Royals would have paid a quantity slightly less than Greinke, which considering Greinke was rated as one of the best pitching prospects in baseball at the time would have still be a considerable amount of talent. Huh.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Delayed reaction here, but I continue to be somewhat flabbergasted by the trade. The Royals tried to get Kearns out of Cincinnati for years and were rebuffed and told it required Zack Greinke plus something else, which was way more than the Royals were ready willing to spend. I have no doubt, however, the Royals would have paid a quantity slightly less than Greinke, which considering Greinke was rated as one of the best pitching prospects in baseball at the time would have still be a considerable amount of talent. Huh.

Yeah - McDougal and another arm ought to have been enough for Kearns by this logic. More and more, Krivsky is looking like a grade A idiot for that deal.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Delayed reaction here, but I continue to be somewhat flabbergasted by the trade. The Royals tried to get Kearns out of Cincinnati for years and were rebuffed and told it required Zack Greinke plus something else, which was way more than the Royals were ready willing to spend. I have no doubt, however, the Royals would have paid a quantity slightly less than Greinke, which considering Greinke was rated as one of the best pitching prospects in baseball at the time would have still be a considerable amount of talent. Huh.

That is the difference between being in a pennant race and being out of it. You can't justify a trade like that (Kearns/Lopez for relief help) when you are 15 games out and rebuilding. But when you're in a pennant race and need bullpen help badly, you have to pull the trigger. I'm almost justifying the trade from the Reds perspective, but if they win the wild card, then it is overwhelmingly a great trade for the Reds.

In general, you mortgage the farm for a chance to win NOW in my opinion. Nothing is guaranteed in the future, so if it means trading a young uber-prospect for the missing piece to get you into the playoffs, you have to do it every time.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by John Galt

The so-called middle-reliever is Brandon McCarthy. That middle-reliever was one of the top pitching prospects in baseball just a year ago and has been broken in primarily in middle relief (ala Santana and Liriano). He is only 23 years old and many think he is likely to turn into a good number 2 starter.

And from the reports I have read, McCarthy is just ONE of the players likely to be included. I would be quite happy if Soriano turned into McCarthy and Fields and/or Broadway.

There is no reason to condemn Bowden until the trade is done.

Sounds like the White Sox took McCarthy off the table, but rumor is that the Nationals want both Broadway and Fields in any trade with Chicago now.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Bee

Sounds like the White Sox took McCarthy off the table, but rumor is that the Nationals want both Broadway and Fields in any trade with Chicago now.

Without McCarthy, I'm not as keen on the deal. Fields (3B) plays the same position as Zimmerman. And Broadway is not exactly dominating AA (his K rate is far from the best). I think McCarthy is the much surer thing (although Fighter of Foo makes a good case that he is not a guarantee) than either of the other players.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

I saw him pitch several times in August/September last year...was really big on him as a prospect coming up. I know he's got a very good scouting report and certainly looks like he should be excellent, but I just don't see it anymore.

Moving from starter to reliever should generally increase a pitcher's strikeout rate and lower their ERA. Heilman for the Mets was regarded as a very good starting pitcher prospect (not as good as McCarthy) and he's been very good to excellent in relief the last calendar year. Gagne was a middling 4th/5th starter who became absolutely nasty in relief until his elbow blew. Not saying McCarthy could/should be like these guys, but he shouldn't stagnate or regress. That's what worries me.

Last point of concern: Compare the minor league numbers of McCarthy:

http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com...layer.cgi?5326

to Brandon Duckworth (former Phils prospect with a similar profile, 3 plus pitches, good track record, etc.) Phils and ChiSox play in the same league through most of the minors IIRC.

http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com...layer.cgi?2638

More than fair point on RFK though. Certainly helped Patterson. If McCarthy can go back to missing more bats I'll like him again. I guess we'll see.

And, yes, I'm bored at work.

I think the reason Gagne and others struggle as starters and thrive as relievers is the number of quality pitches they have. A reliever only needs 2 (or in very special cases 1) plus pitch. A starter really needs 3. That is the primary reason starters get pushed into relief jobs. It has been a while, but I remember seeing most scouts graded McCarthy as having 3 plus pitches. It's also true that having a 3rd quality pitch rarely helps a reliever as much as a starter, so he wouldn't get the same boost moving to relief as someone like Gagne did.

As I said, I could see the downside of McCarthy is that he becomes a decent 5th starter, but I don't see the flameout potential of Duckworth or Elarton as the likely outcome. However, with a 23 year old pitcher, a complete bust is always possible. With that being said, his stats in the Majors have been pretty good for his age. He will need to get his HR down to have a 2nd starter ERA, but that is a definitive possibility given his age.

I just think McCarthy would be a great pickup compared to some of the other prospects available (ie Broadway) because he is closest to being major league starter ready and has a solid track record in the minors and majors. That is true of very few players being talked about in the Soriano rumors.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Delayed reaction here, but I continue to be somewhat flabbergasted by the trade. The Royals tried to get Kearns out of Cincinnati for years and were rebuffed and told it required Zack Greinke plus something else, which was way more than the Royals were ready willing to spend. I have no doubt, however, the Royals would have paid a quantity slightly less than Greinke, which considering Greinke was rated as one of the best pitching prospects in baseball at the time would have still be a considerable amount of talent. Huh.

Is Greinke still cukoo for coco puffs?

[JS19]

Obviously, there is still some time for a trade to be announced, and as much as I liked his deal with Cincy, if this deadline passed and Soriano is still a Nat, Bowden should def be fired. Unless of course there is a deal to lock him up long term.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I think the reason Gagne and others struggle as starters and thrive as relievers is the number of quality pitches they have. A reliever only needs 2 (or in very special cases 1) plus pitch. A starter really needs 3. That is the primary reason starters get pushed into relief jobs. It has been a while, but I remember seeing most scouts graded McCarthy as having 3 plus pitches. It's also true that having a 3rd quality pitch rarely helps a reliever as much as a starter, so he wouldn't get the same boost moving to relief as someone like Gagne did.

As I said, I could see the downside of McCarthy is that he becomes a decent 5th starter, but I don't see the flameout potential of Duckworth or Elarton as the likely outcome. However, with a 23 year old pitcher, a complete bust is always possible. With that being said, his stats in the Majors have been pretty good for his age. He will need to get his HR down to have a 2nd starter ERA, but that is a definitive possibility given his age.

I just think McCarthy would be a great pickup compared to some of the other prospects available (ie Broadway) because he is closest to being major league starter ready and has a solid track record in the minors and majors. That is true of very few players being talked about in the Soriano rumors.

I can't speak to the situations of other converted starters, but Gagne does (or did) have three quality pitches. Good fastball, sick curve, and a Bugs Bunny changeup that complements the fastball nicely.

The problem was, he had no sense of pacing as a starter. He tried to strike everybody out, and ran out of gas by the 4th or 5th inning. That kind of mentality is fine as a closer, when you're pitching one or two innings, but doesn't work so well when your team is counting on you to go 6 or 7.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by JS19

Obviously, there is still some time for a trade to be announced, and as much as I liked his deal with Cincy, if this deadline passed and Soriano is still a Nat, Bowden should def be fired. Unless of course there is a deal to lock him up long term.

Yeah, if there was no trade and no extension, he should be fired. You had to get something, and now he'll walk for nothing.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Yeah, if there was no trade and no extension, he should be fired. You had to get something, and now he'll walk for nothing.

If they offer him arbitration, they'll get two draft picks for him if he walks.

a 1st round sandwich pick for sure, and either the signing team's 1st or 2nd round draft pick, depending on their final record at the end of this season. It's not NOTHING, but it's not immediate help either.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Yeah, if there was no trade and no extension, he should be fired. You had to get something, and now he'll walk for nothing.

"

[dervack]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

If they offer him arbitration, they'll get two draft picks for him if he walks.

a 1st round sandwich pick for sure, and either the signing team's 1st or 2nd round draft pick, depending on their final record at the end of this season. It's not NOTHING, but it's not immediate help either.

Or, he could accept arbitration, and they have to go through this again next season.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by dervack

Or, he could accept arbitration, and they have to go through this again next season.

Seems unlikely. He'll get more as a free agent than he would in arbitration, which is part of the whole reason Washington hasn't been able to sign him yet.

Additionally, he doesn't want to be a left fielder. He wants to be a second baseman, and he's got a much better chance of that happening outside of Washington.

[dawgfan]

Looks like Bowden's bluff with Soriano didn't work out - he tried to pump up Soriano's value to get max return, but the other GM's out there refused to blink. Seems like GM's are getting more and more reluctant to deal top prospects for rent-a-players, and Bowden couldn't find a trading partner desperate enough to give up grade A prospects.

Word has it he was asking for Adam Jones or Jeff Clement (or both) from the M's, and there was no way Bavasi was going to trade his top 2 prospects for a rent-a-player.

[Bisbo]

Bowden is a goddam idiot. I'm sure he pissed off a lot of GMs with all his smirky talk about getting the price he was demanding. Worst decision made by the Lerners was to keep him. The Nationals will never build a solid club with this jackass.

[Bee]

I think even if they can sign Soriano long-term it would be a mistake. Doing that just doesn't make sense considering they're rebuilding over the next couple seasons. The only way not trading him was the right decision is if no one was offering prospects better than the 1st rounder and sandwich pick they'll get through arbitration.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Bisbo

Bowden is a goddam idiot. I'm sure he pissed off a lot of GMs with all his smirky talk about getting the price he was demanding. Worst decision made by the Lerners was to keep him. The Nationals will never build a solid club with this jackass.

Preach on, my brother! I'm glad I'm not the only dyed-in-the-wool cynic in this thread.

[Young Drachma]

Soriano has these guys sipping Kool-Aid. He's a great player, but...he's not the sort of guy I'd have held onto when the Nats could've acquired at least one decent young player for him.

He'll walk, because the money that the Yanks will offer him to go back to 2nd base, where he wants to be anyway..will be too great to pass up. Especially since he never wanted to leave there anyway.

I'm not surprised they bumbled this one, tho.

[Butter]

More rumors about the Kearns/Lopez trade

The Reds are grumbling that Majewski's shoulder was damaged, and that Majewski himself has told them that the Nats gave him a cortisone shot in the weeks leading up to the trade to try and alleviate the pain he was having in his shoulder.

[Toddzilla]

If I was a pitcher and was getting torched the way Majewski has been, I'd probably want to blame it on something like a bum shoulder rather than on the fact that, well, I sucked.

[Ksyrup]

"It was disappointing to read Wayne Krivsky's remarks this evening about the trade of Gary Majewski," Bowden said. "I never received either a call or a message from Wayne, but when I read his comments this evening, I called him and reminded him that the Cincinnati Reds had received all of the medical information they requested, both before and after the trade. It is also worth remembering that Gary pitched for us right up to the trade and has continued doing so for the Reds up until now. I was pleased to learn this evening from media reports that there is in fact no injury to Gary."

A. Apparently doing due diligence for a trade is like conducting discovery for a trial. If you don't use the right terms in your request, you don't get everything you thought you were going to get.

B. Does this mean the Reds have no legitimate reason to put the guy on the DL, if Bowden's learned he isn't injured? That makes no sense.