The Office - Tonight

[QuikSand]

Many years ago, our family was selected for a similar company -- not Neilsen, but a competitor, I guess. No electronic box, we were just asked to manually fill out a datebook diary with the shows we watched and who watched them. Very low tech, but it was at least 20 years ago.

[gkb]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Two observations:

1) The TiVo website lists their "top ten" or something like that in this regard.

2) I think you are giving the American people far too much credit.

I had to go hunt down the list of the "top ten" because I was intrigued.

Here's the link

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Many years ago, our family was selected for a similar company -- not Neilsen, but a competitor, I guess. No electronic box, we were just asked to manually fill out a datebook diary with the shows we watched and who watched them. Very low tech, but it was at least 20 years ago.

I didn't even know there was a competitor, wonder if there still is or if Nielson is in effect a monopoly.

Man, if you could get the data from Tivo and cable company DVR's as well as possibly other sources like rental/purchase rate of TV shows on DVD and package it together as an alternative to, or poor man's version of Nielson ratings I'd bet you could charge a decent amount for that information.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by gkb

I had to go hunt down the list of the "top ten" because I was intrigued.

Here's the link

Interesting. Not sure what the time frame of the Tivo ratings is, but looks like the Apprentice is losing out big time. They're #5 in Tivo and not even in the top 20 as far as I can tell in the Nielsen's anymore.

Sadly, neither the Office or Arrested Development makes the top 25 in Tivo either. Good to see Earl coming in at 18 though. Anyone know where Earl ranks in the Nielsen's week to week?

[Easy Mac]

(Tivo)

	Desperate Housewives	1	0
	Lost	2	0
	CSI: Crime Scene Investigation	3	0
	Grey's Anatomy	4	0
	The Apprentice	5	0
	Survivor: Guatemala	6	0
	CSI: Miami	7	0
	Oprah Winfrey	9	1
	House	8	-1
	ER	10	0
	Medium	11	0
	The West Wing		N/A
	Commander-in-Chief	13	0
	Family Guy	12	-2
	Las Vegas	20	5
	Boston Legal	21	5
	Law & Order: Special Victims Unit	17	0
	My Name Is Earl	18	0
	Prison Break	15	-4
	Nip/Tuck	14	-6
	Alias	15	-6
	Without a Trace	25	3
	CSI: NY	22	-1
	Law & Order	19	-5
	The O.C.	23	-2

Most watched (Neilsen)

Rank	Program Name	Net	Day	Time	Household		Viewers
					Rating/Share	Audience
1	CSI	CBS	Thu	9:00 PM	18.2/27.0	20,087,000	29,546,000
2	DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES	ABC	Sun	9:00 PM	15.8/23.0	17,440,000	25,934,000
3	NFL MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL	ABC	Mon	9:07 PM	14.3/23.0	15,719,000	21,860,000
4	WITHOUT A TRACE	CBS	Thu	10:01 PM	13.8/22.0	15,197,000	20,784,000
5	GREY'S ANATOMY	ABC	Sun	10:01 PM	12.5/20.0	13,819,000	19,737,000
6	CSI: MIAMI	CBS	Mon	10:00 PM	12.3/19.0	13,538,000	18,393,000
6	CSI: NY	CBS	Wed	10:00 PM	12.3/20.0	13,574,000	19,225,000
8	LOST	ABC	Wed	9:00 PM	12.0/18.0	13,215,000	20,012,000
9	COLD CASE	CBS	Sun	8:00 PM	11.1/16.0	12,200,000	17,424,000
10	NCIS	CBS	Tue	8:00 PM	11.0/17.0	12,176,000	17,792,000
10	SURVIVOR: GUATEMALA	CBS	Thu	8:00 PM	11.0/17.0	12,145,000	18,981,000
12	NFL MONDAY SHOWCASE	ABC	Mon	9:00 PM	10.5/16.0	11,524,000	16,304,000
13	LAW AND ORDER:SVU	NBC	Tue	10:00 PM	10.4/17.0	11,416,000	15,763,000
13	TWO AND A HALF MEN	CBS	Mon	9:00 PM	10.4/15.0	11,436,000	16,186,000
15	E.R.	NBC	Thu	9:59 PM	10.1/16.0	11,137,000	15,441,000
16	CRIMINAL MINDS	CBS	Wed	9:00 PM	9.8/15.0	10,806,000	15,086,000
17	60 MINUTES	CBS	Sun	7:00 PM	9.7/16.0	10,720,000	14,458,000
17	COMMANDER IN CHIEF	ABC	Tue	9:00 PM	9.7/14.0	10,712,000	14,778,000
19	EXTREME MAKEOVER:HOME ED.	ABC	Sun	8:00 PM	9.5/14.0	10,487,000	16,687,000
20	HOUSE	FOX	Tue	9:00 PM	8.9/13.0	9,773,000	14,155,000

All of this is the week ending the 13th of November

[sachmo71]

House at the bottom?

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Maybe it's you giving them (the networks) too much credit. I mean (again, I have no real expertise in this area) as far as I know there haven't been any real changes in the way they measure TV ratings in the past 10-15 years. Yet we know technology has changed dramatically. I mean I hardly ever watch shows live b/c of Tivo ... yet I suspect the Nielson boxes only record what you watch live (not what you tape).

I suspect that both parties (the networks and people that pay for advertising) are comfortable with the current ratings because they are used to it, and know how to negotiate based on it. Introducing new data/new ways of collecting data would require collaboration, negotiation, agreement and change. And IMO change is never easy for the larger, older type of corporations we're talking about.

I also think there's some type of user information sharing violation that would occur if they used Tivo numbers w/out consent (or something similar). Perhaps they stick with the Nielson boxes b/c they have explicit consent from the people who have the boxes in their house.

There are individual undergraduate college courses on sampling error and correction. Somehow I think they're willing to pay some $$ to a few grad students who have studied this topic for years and years.

You're really not giving the Nielsen company enough credit. These guys feed their families off reducing sampling errors (not developing some fancy TV-show-counting boxes). I'm sure Nielsen contracts out or has a few departments. One of them makes their counting boxes, and I'm sure the largest, by far, is full of math & statistics majors.

They make money on being experts in analyzing sample data, not TV viewing habits.

[Raiders Army]

Commander in Chief was #17??????

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

There are individual undergraduate college courses on sampling error and correction. Somehow I think they're willing to pay some $$ to a few grad students who have studied this topic for years and years.

You're really not giving the Nielsen company enough credit. These guys feed their families off reducing sampling errors (not developing some fancy TV-show-counting boxes). I'm sure Nielsen contracts out or has a few departments. One of them makes their counting boxes, and I'm sure the largest, by far, is full of math & statistics majors.

They make money on being experts in analyzing sample data, not TV viewing habits.

a) I think you're missing my point.
b) I think you're wrong.

a) I'm sure their 5,000 homes are statistically significant in terms of general population. This isn't a math question. But it is a question of is there a better way to measure television use? You can analyze numbers all you want, but if you're not analyzing relevant numbers (or neglecting a key piece of data like DVR recordings) then 5,000 statistics majors aren't going to get you a better number.

b) I think they actually do make their money off the fancy boxes and other collection devices, plus their process for collecting data. Let's face it, a couple of staticians and programmers + one big computer can crunch the numbers once you have the data. If this were the hard part, the barriers to entry would be very low. I think the hard part is getting the data, ensuring you're collecting accurate data, and finding ways to doublecheck/verify the data. If it was easy to get the data ... then I suspect there would be plenty of competitors out there cutting into their business. I don't know of any.

If you don't think the Nielsen company is worried about impacts of new technology, nor is investing in new technology then IMO you're wrong. I'll have to dig to find some links, but I recall reading that they're looking into everything from voice activated boxes (to quiz the viewers on what they're watching) to RFID type tags to identify who is in the room when shows are being played.

[moriarty]

Dola, I'm not sure of the original source but here is an article posted over at the AVS forum (it's an AV forum that I've found to be pretty reliable) by the moderator that talks about Nielsen's investment in new technologies and some of the pressure the company is under to keep up. It's an interesting read at least. I'd paste the whole thing, but it's a tad long.

hxxp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=512266

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Commander in Chief was #17??????

Yup. Commander and Chief is the number one rated show on Tuesday night in total viewers. It is number 4 in the key demo's, though, were House is number one.

[Passacaglia]

Don't most people who TiVo shows miss the commercials? If so, why would the networks want them counted?

[Easy Mac]

So they can lie to advertisers.

[Raiders Army]

I thought today was Saturday?

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Yup. Commander and Chief is the number one rated show on Tuesday night in total viewers. It is number 4 in the key demo's, though, were House is number one.

Yay!

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by moriarity

(or neglecting a key piece of data like DVR recordings)

How is this a "key" piece of data? I read some where that 3% of households use TiVo, and I'd guess the same amount use other DVR services. So if we round up, that's 10%, which isn't really all that significant of a factor.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

How is this a "key" piece of data? I read some where that 3% of households use TiVo, and I'd guess the same amount use other DVR services. So if we round up, that's 10%, which isn't really all that significant of a factor.

Don't know about the 3%, but it's significant enought that Nielsen is trying to measure it (see the link above). Assuming it is 3%, I can only guess that they feel it will replace the VCR in the near future so maybe they're trying to get ahead of the game.