2005-2006 baseball offseason

[Ksyrup]

Still continue to be seen in the south...except Florida, which apparently is not in the south.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Still continue to be seen in the south...except Florida, which apparently is not in the south.

Blame the Marlins & the D-Rays for that I believe.

[Dunleavy]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Yep, and I agree with the Warlord for the most part. Cubs have plenty of money to spend. The issue will be finding quality guys to spend it on. That's why I expect them to be competitive on Furcal and Burnett. Most would classify this as a fairly weak FA year, so it wouldn't surprise me to see the Cubs do some trading as well.

All that said, I expect Murton and Cedeno to play often. And I do expect them to move Patterson, find someone who is willing to tolerate his inconsistency for the supposed future benefits.

just signed a setup man to go w/Dempster, suppose to good and for 5 mill he better be.

btw all signs point towards Hendry going after Furcal, unless someone jumps in and gets silly i expect Hendry to once again get his man. i hope they do sign him even if it is 5 and 50. i cant believe how bad the FA OF's are, makes SD look real good for getting Camron for their own version of CPat. speaking of him, rumor is the Cubs have interest in Munch from Texas, CPat would go and it likely a pitcher too.

Murton i like, Cedeno i didnt see enough of his games

[Ksyrup]

I guess that makes sense. What's the closest baseball team to Atlanta that's NOT in Florida? The Nationals? Reds? Rangers, maybe?

I don't care, since I get the baseball package. I would like to get more D-Rays and Marlins games, though - 75% of them are blacked out, and of those, I only get maybe 1 or 2 a week on FSN. So I get the black out and no local/regional games. The worst of both worlds. Like being in Tallahassee, I'm going to decide to drive to Miami or St. Pete for a Wednesday night game. Riiiiight.

[Ksyrup]

I would hate to see Brian Giles sign with the Yankees, but all indications are that they've decided on him to play CF. He's 35, so maybe they'll give him a 5 year, $50M deal that will look silly in 2 years. I've always liked him, though, so it's gonna suck to have to root for him to fail or get injured (hey, it's the Yankees, everything is fair game).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I guess that makes sense. What's the closest baseball team to Atlanta that's NOT in Florida? The Nationals? Reds? Rangers, maybe?

Atlanta is 456 miles to Tampa, 467 to Cincy, 639 to Washington, 699 to Baltimore.

[Ksyrup]

Here we go again...


According to the Palm Beach Post, Florida's front office has been telling teams that, except for Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera, everyone on the Marlins is available. The team's payroll may drop from $65 million to $40 million.
It's like eight years ago, but without the championship. The Marlins are believed to be talking with the Orioles, Mets and Yankees about Delgado. Juan Pierre, Paul Lo Duca, Jose Castillo and Guillermo Mota could follow Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell, not to mention the club's free agents, out of town. Nov. 20 - 12:52 am et

[stevew]

Pierre would be a good fit for the Yankees in center....I hope they dont sign Giles.

[rkmsuf]

Heard Henley Ramirez, some Lester guy for Josh Beckett to Boston.

[sterlingice]

I saw the Lowell/Beckett to Rangers for Hank Blalock and a pitching prospect rumor from a Fishy friend of mine. I still don't get their obsession with dumping Lowell unless there's something that no one else knows about like that he has some injury that resulted in last year's numbers or getting off the juice or something. I know he gets paid a lot but if last year was just last year and he bounces back to previous Mike Lowell levels then he's not a bargain but he's not grossly overpaid, either.

SI

[Ksyrup]

They turned so quickly on Lowell that there must be something the public doesn't know about. Especially since the guy is Cuban, as well. You'd think they'd want to make him a prominent team figure in that community.

[Crapshoot]

Lowell was awful - it makes sense that they're trying to deal him and his $9 mil for the next 2 years of their payroll. Signing Delgado last year was pretty dumb as well, for a team with a limited payroll.

This is going to be one crazy offseason - if Wagner ends up at 4, 40 - the team that signs him should be shot - that Mariano money. Hell, setup men are going to end up at $6 mil per year - see Gordon, Tom. And someone stupid - (Tigers, Detroit) is going to give JOhnny Damon 5yrs, 50 million and cry in year 2.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

This is going to be one crazy offseason - if Wagner ends up at 4, 40 - the team that signs him should be shot - that Mariano money. Hell, setup men are going to end up at $6 mil per year - see Gordon, Tom. And someone stupid - (Tigers, Detroit) is going to give JOhnny Damon 5yrs, 50 million and cry in year 2.

Wagner is the best lefty reliever of all time. Take it for what it's worth.

[dawgfan]

Looks like the long-rumored signing of Japanese C Kenji Johjima by the Mariners has come to pass, with the deal reported as 3 years, $16.5M plus $2.5M of potential performance bonuses over the 3 years.

Projections are still pretty sketchy on Japanese position players coming to MLB, but at worst he should hit around Dan Wilson's peak level (a .270/.310/.425 kind of level) and at best he could be one of the top-hitting catchers in the game (around a .300/.380/.575 level). He's also regarded as a pretty good defensive catcher, and he'll nicely fill the C spot until Jeff Clement is ready to go.

[Ksyrup]

Five straight Japan League gold gloves. Still, who knows what you're going to get.

[sterlingice]

Anyone know how catching in the American versus Japanese game is different? I've gotta think there's some different mentality with how to pitch and I wonder how that translates over.

SI

[Ksyrup]

How old is he, anyway?

[sterlingice]

Looks like he's 29. Catchers get old pretty quick but I suppose the 29-32 years aren't too bad.

http://japanesebaseball.com/players/...p?PlayerID=102

SI

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Anyone know how catching in the American versus Japanese game is different? I've gotta think there's some different mentality with how to pitch and I wonder how that translates over.

SI

This is the big issue IMO. There's been a lot of talk about the language issue, but I think that's overblown - there's no reason he can't learn the basics needed to communicate pitches, balls and strikes and whatnot. What's more important is how he calls the game and him becoming familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of AL hitters and of his own pitching staff. If it's true that Japanese baseball is different in terms of pitching styles, that would seem to be the big adjustment. It may be that the M's will call pitches from the bench for a while to get him acclimated.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Five straight Japan League gold gloves. Still, who knows what you're going to get.

I think its 7 straight goldies, unless si.com was wrong....He looks pretty good on paper, but who knows how well he'll play in the US.

[dawgfan]

Can someone explain to me the Florida Marlin situation? I don't get it - the team is competitive, they're just 2 years removed from winning the World Series, yet they are looking to trim the modest $65M payroll again? They're going to lose Burnett to free agency yet they're willing to deal one of the best young starting pitchers in the game in Beckett?

Seems from the outside like the Marlins are a self-fulfilling prophecy. Fans don't fully embrace the franchise because they've been burned in the past by teardowns, and the team continues to plead poverty and "Woe is me, the region won't build us a luxury stadium" because the area hasn't embraced the team.

[Ksyrup]

Don't blame Loria for Marlins' payroll woes



Dave Hyde
Sports Columnist

November 21, 2005

Seasons have changed. Players have changed. Even the Marlins owners have changed, three times, from business-savvy H. Wayne Huizenga to baseball-silly John Henry to Jeffrey Loria, who has been the best mix of sports and business.

But the Marlins' storyline stays the same: Some great teams. Some star players. But no stadium. Not enough fans. Never any financial cavalry coming over the horizon.

And so now it's Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell possibly being salary-dumped to Texas. Carlos Delgado and the $48 million owed him in the next three years are in play in trade talks, too. At least Delgado went public fearing so.

If it all happens, could anyone blame Loria the way everyone once did Huizenga and Henry? By now, it's obvious the first problem baseball has in South Florida isn't an owner, the stadium, afternoon thunderstorms, the dismantling of 1997, the lack of a dome, the angle of the seats, marketing plans for the team, Mike Lowell's slump, any proposed new stadium site or the fact concession stands just don't take credit cards, darn it.

There simply aren't enough paying fans.

That's it. That's the problem in a definitive sentence. And a distinction must be made between "paying fans" and "baseball fans," because the Marlins' TV ratings are strong. TV officials brag about them. Just last spring, a one-of-162 Marlins game outdrew a Heat playoff game. Go figure.

If the Marlins were the Kansas City Royals or Pittsburgh Pirates during the last decade, this constant lack of support would be more understandable. But they've been South Florida's most successful franchise in the past decade. They've won two World Series. That would muster the maximum support possible.

South Florida won't put public money toward a baseball stadium. That's clear, and it's reasonable. But the mystery forever will be why two publicly funded basketball arenas and a hockey arena were built while baseball gets nothing despite providing double the events at the lowest ticket price.

Loria has done more than asked since his arrival in 2002. He answered whether he would dismantle the Marlins by winning the World Series in 2003, and if he'd spend money by first signing Pudge Rodriguez, then Carlos Delgado, and having a middle-of-the-pack payroll of $66 million this year.

Has any franchise been smarter with its money the last few seasons? Any team had more exciting players?

Even this frustrating season, they contended until late September. There wasn't a better ticket in sports than Dontrelle Willis, who finished second in the National League Cy Young voting. Delgado and Miguel Cabrera finished fifth and sixth, respectively, in Most Valuable Player voting.

And they ranked 28th in attendance.

So who can blame Loria for whatever he does? Who says Huizenga's conclusion wasn't right, if his methods heavy-handed? No doubt General Manager Larry Beinfest will trot out the term "payroll flexibility" in discussing any trades of Beckett or Delgado. All smaller-payroll teams do. But Beinfest invented the phrase back in 2002, when starting pitcher Matt Clement and then-closer Antonio Alfonseca were dealt to the Cubs just before the season in a statement of where the Marlins' payroll stood.

Maybe that's the lifeline of hope today. Maybe, like that Cubs deal that brought Willis, any big-salary moves will be part of a greater plan the Marlins have to somehow salvage the future by getting quality youth.

Hank Blalock would fit into that idea. He's a former All-Star third baseman coming off a bad year. Sound familiar? But unlike Lowell, who is 32 and owed $18 million the next two years, Blalock is 25 with a contract totaling $13 million for the next three years.

If Cabrera is blocked once more from returning to his natural position of third base, well, this doesn't look to be an offseason of soft landings for anyone.

For four years, Loria has bumped up against what Huizenga and Henry did. For the past three, he smartly worked around it. And he explained the low attendance this season as, "purely a factor of weather."

Told he was optimistic, he said: "If you don't have a degree of optimism in this business, you couldn't do it."

In this awful baseball market, it's not clear he still can.

Dave Hyde can be reached at [email protected].

Copyright © 2005, South Florida Sun-Sentinel

[Ksyrup]

To sum it all up...South Florida sucks.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Wagner is the best lefty reliever of all time. Take it for what it's worth.

Agreed- but he's 34, and will be on the downside of his career. And he's not Mariano Riviera, who is probably the best reliever of all time. I think giving 4 yrs and $40 million to a 34 year old closer is nuts- on the other hand, given the amount of money floating around in baseball, we may continue to see a restoration of the the trend of salary increases, which seem to have been limited since 2002 or so. I think BJ Ryan at 4/30 is a better bet for success over the life of that contract. Hell, I think signing 3 good relievers is a better bet than paying that much for a closer.

[TazFTW]

Just saw this on SportsCenter.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2232211

The Marlins and Red Sox are close to a deal that would send Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell to Boston for Hanley Ramirez and a pitching prospect.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Five straight Japan League gold gloves. Still, who knows what you're going to get.

Hey, at least we got a known quality like Leiberathal locked up.

[Ksyrup]

This made me laugh. You have to give the guy credit - he certainly puts it all out there for his clients.



Agent Scott Boras made a copy of Johnny Damon's free-agent statistical binder available. In it are sections titled "Best Leadoff Man in Baseball"; "Most Durable Active Player in the Major Leagues/Deserving of a 7-Plus-Year Contract"; and "Better Than Future Hall of Famer Rickey Henderson."
-- New York Times

[rkmsuf]

Who would give Damon 7 years or more? For that matter who would give him 4 or 5?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This made me laugh. You have to give the guy credit - he certainly puts it all out there for his clients.



Agent Scott Boras made a copy of Johnny Damon's free-agent statistical binder available. In it are sections titled "Best Leadoff Man in Baseball"; "Most Durable Active Player in the Major Leagues/Deserving of a 7-Plus-Year Contract"; and "Better Than Future Hall of Famer Rickey Henderson."
-- New York Times

Did he mention the part that career wise, Damon has an OPS+ of 102.

[Ksyrup]

Good news about Giles:

The Yankees are proceeding as if they will not sign B.J. Ryan or Brian Giles. Neither has scheduled a visit with the Yankees, and a person who has been briefed on the Yankees' plans said neither player seemed serious about signing with the Yankees.
-- New York Times

[Logan]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Who would give Damon 7 years or more? For that matter who would give him 4 or 5?

I remember the debate earlier in the season being whether a team would get suckered by Boras into giving Damon the 4th year that he was looking for. I agree with you...I can't see any way someone will give him even that 5th year. I have a feeling that if Boras sticks to his guns on getting that long of a deal, its going to all of a sudden be late in the offseason, with a bunch of teams already having filled their hole at CF.

[Logan]

'Manny is not returning to Boston,' Ortiz saysAssociated Press


SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic -- One of baseball's most fearsome offensive duos -- the Boston Red Sox's David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez -- appears to be history.

According to Ortiz, "Manny is not returning to Boston."

"Manny is living through a difficult situation [in Boston] that only he and his family know, and he no longer wants to play there," said Ortiz after arriving early Monday in the Dominican Republic.

Ramirez has asked for a trade in each of his five seasons with the Red Sox, but apparently this one is definite.

"I spoke with him last week before he left for Brazil and he told me that he wants to go to a team in the West," Ortiz, the Red Sox's designated hitter, said.

Ramirez has three years worth $160 million remaining on his contract with the Red Sox. Because of his status as a player with 10 seasons in the major leagues and five with the same team, he is allowed to approve any trade.

"I found out that that they are doing everything possible to trade him," Ortiz said.

The Los Angeles Angeles of Anaheim have been named as a possible destination for Ramirez, as well as the New York Mets.

Bolded part added to emphasize ESPNs mistake.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Logan

I remember the debate earlier in the season being whether a team would get suckered by Boras into giving Damon the 4th year that he was looking for. I agree with you...I can't see any way someone will give him even that 5th year. I have a feeling that if Boras sticks to his guns on getting that long of a deal, its going to all of a sudden be late in the offseason, with a bunch of teams already having filled their hole at CF.

Bob Dole throws better than Damon.

[General Mike]

Carlos Delgado to the Mets for Yusmeiro Petit and Mike Jacobs.

[stevew]

While striking the Delgado deal, New York also was wooing closer Billy Wagner, who completed a two-day visit Tuesday. The Mets offered the free agent a three-year contract worth just more than $30 million, a deal containing an option for 2009 that could increase the package to $40 million.



"The visit went very well and went a long way to answering whether the Wagners could be comfortable living in the New York area," agent Bean Stringfellow wrote Wednesday in an e-mail to The Associated Press.



Philadelphia is trying to re-sign the four-time All-Star.

Mets are definately out to spend this offseason. Pettit and Jacobs seems like reasonable return for Delgado.

[General Mike]

Mets got 7M back in the Delgado deal as well.

[dawgfan]

Petit is a big-time stud prospect - those numbers at those levels at his age are amazing. Jacobs looks like a hell of a prospect as well. Florida should have their starting catcher for the next decade in Jacobs, and Petit is probably no more than a year away and could give them Beckett-like performance. Even if Florida has to pay some of Delgado's salary, they did well in this deal.

[stevew]

Thome for Aaron Rowland, according to espn via SGS. I wonder how much cash we eat. Looks like a solid canidate for CF for Philly.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Petit is a big-time stud prospect - those numbers at those levels at his age are amazing. Jacobs looks like a hell of a prospect as well. Florida should have their starting catcher for the next decade in Jacobs, and Petit is probably no more than a year away and could give them Beckett-like performance. Even if Florida has to pay some of Delgado's salary, they did well in this deal.

Let me first come out and say that I'm a Met fan, but in no way is this sour grapes in a "these guys aren't on my team anymore" way.

That said, Petit's numbers are misleading. Yes, he has had plenty of success in the minors (I believe in AA he had something like 160 Ks and only 18 BBs which is phenomenal), but there were people who thought he was striking out all those guys in a smoke-and-mirrors way. He doesn't throw hard--averages 88-90, with a top speed of 92, and relies on a kinda quirky delivery and a big speed gap between his fastball and slow curve to trick hitters. I know Baseball America, for one, wrote that he might have more trouble in AAA, and eventually the majors, as hitters figure him out and get more patient. He did struggle in AAA this past season (although it was brief, and he definitely deserves more time there before he could be criticized). So I don't see where you can compare him to Beckett.

As for Jacobs, he was never considered a top prospect until he started tearing up the minors this season. Could he just be a late bloomer (remember, he's 25 years old, not 21)? Sure. He definitely had a great first 100 at bats in the bigs, but who knows what will come after that. And he's not a catcher. He's a 1B. The Mets don't have a catcher. They wouldn't be looking towards the likes of an unproven Japanese player/Molina/Hernandez/Lo Duca/Toby Hall if they had a young guy in Jacobs who could assume the duties. He wasn't even considered.

Now my criticisms of these guys doesn't in any way mean Florida didn't get good value in this deal. I believe they did (especially when you only end up paying $7 mil of a $48 mil contract). But I think your analysis of the players they received is WAY off.

[Ksyrup]

Phillies give $22M of Thome's salary (out of $48M) to Chicago and get Rowland back. Considering the circumstances, I can't quibble with this deal. Everyone knew we had to trade him and he is coming off an injury. The Sox basically took another Frank Thomas for 3 more years.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Phillies give $22M of Thome's salary (out of $48M) to Chicago and get Rowland back. Considering the circumstances, I can't quibble with this deal. Everyone knew we had to trade him and he is coming off an injury. The Sox basically took another Frank Thomas for 3 more years.

I think its a fantastic deal for the Phillies, and in my opinion makes it even more necessary for the Mets to take Wagner away.

CF has been a problem for Philly for a while. They're getting back a stud, young fielder who can hit. And they had to get rid of Thome to open up 1B for Howard, who apparently wasn't willing to screw up his career by being a shitty OF. Can't blame him. Or the Phillies for complying.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Here we go again...


According to the Palm Beach Post, Florida's front office has been telling teams that, except for Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera, everyone on the Marlins is available. The team's payroll may drop from $65 million to $40 million.
It's like eight years ago, but without the championship. The Marlins are believed to be talking with the Orioles, Mets and Yankees about Delgado. Juan Pierre, Paul Lo Duca, Jose Castillo and Guillermo Mota could follow Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell, not to mention the club's free agents, out of town. Nov. 20 - 12:52 am et

That team needs out of there, already.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Phillies give $22M of Thome's salary (out of $48M) to Chicago and get Rowland back. Considering the circumstances, I can't quibble with this deal. Everyone knew we had to trade him and he is coming off an injury. The Sox basically took another Frank Thomas for 3 more years.

Nope, not a bad deal at all. I liked Thome a lot, and generally still think he's a pretty good guy. But Howard can't play OF, and I'd much rather have him than Thome.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Logan

That said, Petit's numbers are misleading. Yes, he has had plenty of success in the minors (I believe in AA he had something like 160 Ks and only 18 BBs which is phenomenal), but there were people who thought he was striking out all those guys in a smoke-and-mirrors way. He doesn't throw hard--averages 88-90, with a top speed of 92, and relies on a kinda quirky delivery and a big speed gap between his fastball and slow curve to trick hitters. I know Baseball America, for one, wrote that he might have more trouble in AAA, and eventually the majors, as hitters figure him out and get more patient. He did struggle in AAA this past season (although it was brief, and he definitely deserves more time there before he could be criticized). So I don't see where you can compare him to Beckett.

The numbers aren't deceiving, they're what they are - very very impressive. Any pitcher at age 20 that is striking out 130 in 117.2 innings in AA ball is a good prospect. When they're doing that and only giving up 18 walks, well, they're an outstanding prospect. And it wasn't a fluke - he was even more dominating in the rookie leagues and 3 different A league stops.

Doesn't matter that he's not a 95+ MPH flamethrower. You're a Mets fan, so you should remember Sid Fernandez, or if you're pretty young you should at least be familiar with the name. Sid threw 88-90 MPH, but he was consistently one of the best pitchers in baseball at missing bats, striking out nearly a batter per inning over his whole career and allowing less than 7 hits per 9 innings. He was a very good pitcher and he did it not because he was a flamethrower (he wasn't) but because he had a very funky and deceptive delivery that made his pitches look faster (because he hid the ball so well) and because he changed speeds well and had a good breaking ball.

I'm seeing nothing in the "scouting reports" on Petit that says his results are necessarily a fluke - if he has a deceptive delivery that makes his 88-90 MPH fastball look better than it is, especially if he's offsetting it with a much slower breaking pitch. Maybe he's a guy that needs a season or two to acclimate to the Majors, but unless he gets hurt it's very hard to imagine his numbers dropping off significantly in the bigs.

There are no guarantees with pitching prospects, but his numbers are outstanding - there aren't many pitchers that post the numbers he's posted at the levels and ages he's done them. Josh Beckett posted impressive numbers in the minors as well, but he didn't even start until he was 20, so Petit has a bit of a head-start on him.

As for Jacobs, he was never considered a top prospect until he started tearing up the minors this season. Could he just be a late bloomer (remember, he's 25 years old, not 21)? Sure. He definitely had a great first 100 at bats in the bigs, but who knows what will come after that. And he's not a catcher. He's a 1B. The Mets don't have a catcher. They wouldn't be looking towards the likes of an unproven Japanese player/Molina/Hernandez/Lo Duca/Toby Hall if they had a young guy in Jacobs who could assume the duties. He wasn't even considered.

My bad on his position - that's how he was listed by the Baseball Cube, and Baseball America stats are no longer showing games played a position. Either the Baseball Cube is completely off-base or Jacobs used to be a C in the Mets system.

As for his prospect status, he does appear to be a bit of a late-bloomer, but he had a very good year in 2003 in AA ball at age 22. I'm assuming he missed most of the 2004 season due to injury, but after his 2003 season he should've been considered a prospect. His year this year is very similar to what he posted in 2003.

Now my criticisms of these guys doesn't in any way mean Florida didn't get good value in this deal. I believe they did (especially when you only end up paying $7 mil of a $48 mil contract). But I think your analysis of the players they received is WAY off.

My praise of Jacobs is dimmed by the fact he's considered a 1B rather than a C, but he still could be a pretty good hitter for Florida.

As for Petit, I stand by my assertion that he's a hell of a pitching prospect. It's rare to see a guy dominate in the minors as much as he did, as young as he did it, and not also succeed in the Majors (and most of the time if they don't succeed it's due to injury). Between him and Scott Kazmir, the Mets have traded away some very impressive young pitchers.

[oykib]

At least this time they got something back. The Kazmir trade was just stupid beyond belief.

[Logan]

dawg...

Your follow-up is good. Petit has been compared to El Sid, and yes if his career mirrors Sid's, it would be a great thing. From people who watched Petit have his success at AA Binghamton (NY, so a lot of games get aired to Mets fans), they just weren't sure how successful he would be in the bigs. The point of my post wasn't in any way to rip on the Marlins, but instead to try and make sure you weren't getting your hopes up by just looking at the numbers of the guys you got back. It's good that your aware that just because Petit struck out a lot of guys, he doesn't throw hard.

Buck Martinez was on "Mike and the Mad Dog" the day of the trade giving his analysis. At the beginning of the discussion, he casually said "From what I've read on Petit, he's an excellent young pitcher." Then once the talk got around to further discussing the guys Florida got, Martinez went off saying "I love this Petit kid. He's going to be a stud pitcher. He's a flamethrower." etc...So he was completely making judgments on the kid based on the numbers he saw. Wanted to make sure you weren't doing the same.

[korme]

11/25/2005 12:02 AM ET Red Sox make Beckett trade official Boston also acquires Lowell, Mota in seven-player swap By Ian Browne / MLB.com

Josh Beckett, who grew up idolizing former Red Sox ace and fellow Texan Roger Clemens, is excited to pitch for Boston. (Steve Mitchell/AP) Related Links • Hot Stove coverage • Beckett's career stats • Lowell's career stats • Mota's career stats MLB Headlines • Red Sox officially acquire Beckett • Mets land Delgado from Marlins • White Sox fill a need with Thome • Let MLB.com's Gift Guru be Santa's helper • Pirates add Manto to coaching staff • Braves trio exudes spirit of Thanksgiving • Rangers extend Hart through 2013 • Free Agent Tracker: By player | By team • More MLB Headlines ADVERTISEMENT

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• Beckett's career stats
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• Complete Hot Stove coverage


BOSTON -- In a clear sign that baseball business is open on Yawkey Way, even without a general manager, the Red Sox on Thanksgiving evening officially announced the acquisition of a potential ace in right-hander Josh Beckett from the Florida Marlins. The Sox also added third baseman Mike Lowell and right-handed reliever Guillermo Mota in the deal while sending four Minor League prospects -- shortstop Hanley Ramirez and three right-handed pitchers (Anibal Sanchez, Jesus Delgado and Harvey Garcia) -- to the Marlins.

"It's an exciting time getting to go to Boston to play," Beckett said during an impromptu conference call with Marlins beat reporters that the right-hander arranged. "I had a Boston hat growing up and I'm from Texas."

A big reason for that was another Texan named Roger Clemens, who pitched the first 13 seasons of his legendary career with the Red Sox and was idolized by Beckett.

Beckett becomes the most significant pitcher the Red Sox have acquired in a trade since the blockbuster that brought Curt Schilling to Boston two years ago, a transaction that was consummated the day after Thanksgiving.

"I think Josh Beckett has got the makeup and the mentality to pitch at Fenway and dominate at this level," said free agent first baseman Kevin Millar, who teamed with Beckett in Florida in 2001-02 before moving to Boston in 2003.

Though the Red Sox bid adieu to two of their best Minor Leaguers in Ramirez and Sanchez, this deal can hardly be termed as short-sighted.

The 25-year-old Beckett, who regularly registers his fastball in the mid 90s, is just entering his prime and could emerge into one of the game's elite pitchers if he stays healthy. Of course, the Red Sox, who control his contractual rights for the next two seasons, would like to lock him up long-term before he becomes eligible for free agency following the 2007 season.

The last hang-up before the much-rumored deal became official was the Red Sox conducting their due diligence in making sure that Beckett's right shoulder, which was stiff and tired late in the 2005 season, was not a trade-breaking issue. Ultimately, they decided that Beckett's arm was sound and enthusiastically signed off on a deal that has been anticipated for days.

Beckett is convinced that his shoulder is not an issue.

"Personally, I don't think it is," he said. "My last start was one of my best velocity-wise of the season."

Beckett, a highly touted pitcher since the day the Marlins drafted him, produced a career year in 2005, going 15-8 with a 3.37 ERA in 29 starts. Of course, the pinnacle of his career thus far was his World Series MVP performance against the Yankees in 2003, when he pitched a gem in Game 6 on three days' rest to clinch the title for the Marlins.

The biggest question mark on Beckett at this stage is his durability. He's yet to make 30 starts or pitch 200 innings in a season, due mostly to blisters on his middle finger.

In his career, Beckett is 41-34 with a 3.46 ERA. Back in 1999, Beckett was taken by the Marlins as the second overall pick in the First-Year Player Draft out of Spring Hill High School in Texas. The owner of the Marlins when that pick was made? None other than current Sox owner John W. Henry.

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While it was a no-brainer to bring in a pitcher like Beckett, the Red Sox had to think a little longer and harder about adding Lowell, who is not only coming off the least productive season of his career, but is also owed a total of $18 million over the next two seasons.

The Red Sox hope that Lowell, backed by the comfortable confines of Fenway Park, will get back to the type of hitter he was in Florida's World Series championship season of 2003, when he belted 32 homers and drove in 105 runs. Lowell's numbers dipped a bit in 2004, as he smacked 27 homers and had 85 RBIs. But in 2005, Lowell never seemed right, hitting .236 with eight homers and 58 RBIs.

"I think Mikey Lowell will bounce back in a change of scenery and absolutely dominate, and I think he's very excited to be a Red Sox," said Millar, who is a close friend of Lowell's.

On the plus side, Lowell didn't let his offensive slide affect his defense, as he won the Gold Glove Award for National League third basemen in 2005.

The 31-year-old Lowell has played 989 games in his career, hitting .272 with 143 homers and 578 RBIs.

Mota should help Boston's bullpen depth. In 386 games -- split between the Expos, Dodgers and Marlins -- Mota is 22-24 with a 3.61 ERA. He was 2-2 with a 4.70 ERA in 56 outings in 2005.

Ever since Theo Epstein decided to relinquish his post as general manager of the Red Sox on Oct. 31, there have been questions of how the Red Sox could stay productive during the Hot Stove season without a GM in place. That question was answered emphatically with this trade.

As club president/CEO Larry Lucchino continues to interview perspective candidates, the assembled staff in baseball operations has stayed hard at work, talking trades with teams and free agency with players and/or agents.

This trade was a collaboration of front office executives Bill Lajoie, Jeremy Kapstein, Jed Hoyer, Peter Woodfork, Ben Cherington and Craig Shipley.

While Ramirez had the biggest name of all the prospects involved, it was perhaps tougher for the Red Sox to part with Sanchez, given how invaluable talented young arms can be.

Sanchez, who missed the entire 2003 season due to Tommy John surgery on his right elbow, has come back strong the last two years.

He opened the 2005 season at Class A Wilmington, going 6-1 with a 2.40 ERA in 14 starts. Sanchez was then promoted to Double-A Portland, going 3-5 with a 3.45 ERA in 11 starts.

It is unclear how Ramirez would have fit into Boston's future, with veteran shortstop Edgar Renteria under contract for the next three seasons. Ramirez was called up to Boston late in the 2005 season, going 0-for-2.

Ramirez hit .271 with six homers and 52 RBIs at Double-A Portland in 2005.

The lesser-known Delgado made 33 relief appearances for Class A Greenville last season, going 7-3 with a 3.50 ERA.

Garcia went 3-5 with a 2.01 ERA in 32 appearances in 2005 for Greenville.

Beckett joins a rotation that is also likely to include Schilling, Matt Clement, Bronson Arroyo and Tim Wakefield. Hard-throwing right-hander Jonathan Papelbon will also compete for a spot, assuming the Red Sox opt to move him out of the bullpen he thrived in last year. Left-hander David Wells has requested a trade and the Red Sox are likely to grant him his wish.

Lowell will take over the third base position that Bill Mueller so aptly handled the last three years. Kevin Youkilis, who was hoping to hold down that position after knocking on the door the last couple of years, might move to first base.

Ian Browne is a reporter for MLB.com. Joe Frisaro, a reporter for MLB.com, contributed to this report from Miami. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Logan

dawg...

Your follow-up is good. Petit has been compared to El Sid, and yes if his career mirrors Sid's, it would be a great thing. From people who watched Petit have his success at AA Binghamton (NY, so a lot of games get aired to Mets fans), they just weren't sure how successful he would be in the bigs. The point of my post wasn't in any way to rip on the Marlins, but instead to try and make sure you weren't getting your hopes up by just looking at the numbers of the guys you got back. It's good that your aware that just because Petit struck out a lot of guys, he doesn't throw hard.

Just FYI, I have no rooting interest in the Marlins; I'm a Seattle guy, so the Mariners are my team.

Buck Martinez was on "Mike and the Mad Dog" the day of the trade giving his analysis. At the beginning of the discussion, he casually said "From what I've read on Petit, he's an excellent young pitcher." Then once the talk got around to further discussing the guys Florida got, Martinez went off saying "I love this Petit kid. He's going to be a stud pitcher. He's a flamethrower." etc...So he was completely making judgments on the kid based on the numbers he saw. Wanted to make sure you weren't doing the same.

Given how dominant his numbers are, at the level he's pitched and at his age, it really doesn't matter to me how hard he throws or what his pitching style is - he's clearly extremely effective with it. When you've got a 20-year old kid in AA ball that is posting a 9.94 K/9 rate along with a 7.22|1 K/BB ratio, that's a guy that has a very high likelihood of success in the big leagues if he stays healthy. The only thing I can find that's a cause for concern is his HR rate.

For a long time, too many scouts were too obsessed with raw numbers like a pitcher's height and the speed on this fastball. Maybe Petit doesn't blow you away on the radar gun and he's not a big kid, but whetever he's doing, he's making a lot of minor league batters swing and miss at a very advanced level for his age. Add in that he's not missing bats by being wild, but has a phenomenally low walk rate, and it's hard to imagine that he's not going to be a very good MLB pitcher. Good deception in your delivery and good change of speeds in your pitches and/or a nasty breaking ball can cover up for an 88 MPH fastball.

[sterlingice]

Well, if you want a counterpoint to Petit, see: Greinke, Zack, 2005. Again, the kid's young but he had insane numbers like those going through the minors and was hailed as one of the great pitching prospects. Also, not a power pitcher but can dial it up to 95 on rare occasions (more comfortable with 92ish). Had good K/BB ratios in the minors (13/78 in 87 in A in 2002, 5/34 in 53 in AA in 2002, 6/23 in 28 in AAA in 2003) and even started off looking really good in the majors last year.

Sure, you can say "well, the Royals screwed him up" and there's some truth to that and he's still young so it's not permament (hopefully) but TNSTAAPP really does hold true. But this was a guy who's BP entry for this year started with "With apologies to Jon Landau, we have seen the future of pitching, and his name is Zack Greinke" and there were a lot of people who believed that, not just BP or Royals fans.

SI

[Terps]

Blue Jays signed B.J. Ryan, 5 years/$47 million.

Hate to see him leave the O's, but they can have him for that much.