2005-06 Soccer Thread

[Critch]

Yeah, the Cadiz v Real Madrid game was on live on GolTV over here. There was one bit where Robinho got the ball wide right, chiped it over the defenders head, nipped round him and was gone before the defender could react. Great. He also seemed prepared to lay the ball off, not just try to beat the whole team on his own like certain other high skill players do.

He's going to be great to watch this year.

[daedalus]

Want. To. Cry.

There was a brief - very brief - moment when Robinho considered Arsenal. Then went back to his original decision to join Real. Oh well.

I still think Real screwed up by signing Baptista for the hell of it then try to shoehorn him into a midfield slot. And I can't believe they'll be making money off of Owen. Damn them.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by moriarty

I think they're a good team (i.e. they have talent) but will underperform with Souness. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I suspect he'll be gone after this season.

Agreed on Bowyer though.

I think with Owen and Luque along with Parker and Emre, Newcastle will probablt do well enough to make the UEFA Cup with that talent. Souness's job should be ok for this year.

Oh, and I saw Robinho as well on GolTV.. wow... he'll be something in Europe.

[Critch]

Jermaine Jenas has signed for Spurs for 8mil pounds, less than the 15-20mil he was earlier rumored to be worth. Probably a good move for both sides, Newcastle were not getting much from Jenas and they've upgraded midfield with the aforementioned Emre and Parker, Spurs are getting an England international for a relatively cheap price. He'll be worth 8mil and more if he can recapture his earlier form.

It's the transfer deadline today, so far Jenas and the confirmation of the Owen move are the big news. Other than that it's still fairly quiet, Lee Young-Pyo to Spurs from PSV and Simao Sabrosa rumored to be signing for Liverpool from Benfica.

[Icy]

Ok with the money from Owen, R.Madrid is finishing negotiations today to bring the best young promissing defender in Spain, Sergio Ramos from Sevilla (19 years old and already into the Spanish national team). F.C Barcelona offered Saviola and money for him but he wanteds to come to R.Madrid. The deal has been published today as done, they just need to finish some details.

I'm happy for having him in our team but also for not letting Barcelona to get him

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Critch

He'll be worth 8mil and more if he can recapture his earlier form.

Jenas is seriously overrated. He isn't worth the 8 mil, but we'll take it. He's too lazy to be anything decent... and will be on the bench most likely at Tottenham.

He was really only good for 1 year and has sucked horribly the last two seasons.

[ISiddiqui]

Speaking of Newcastle transfer news... .

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...341274&cc=5901

Peruvian midfielder Nolberto Solano was tonight on the verge of making a shock return to Newcastle just 19 months after leaving for Aston Villa.

The 30-year-old winger was undergoing a medical this evening after the two clubs agreed an undisclosed fee, believed to be in the region of the £1.5million for which he initially moved, with James Milner travelling in the opposite direction on loan for the rest of the season.

Newcastle confirmed the development, although with time running out before the closure of the transfer window at midnight, they were working desperately behind the scenes to complete the deal.

[moriarty]

Wow, Liverpool got exactly nobody before the trade deadline. Not only losing out on Michael Owen, but also missing out on Solano (who they could have desperately used on the right wing) and all their prospects.

While I'm glad we didn't throw money around foolishly (see Diouf, Diao, Cheryrou, etc...) we really needed someone ANYONE on the right wing. Could have used another defender too, although I hope Whitbread gets some opportunities to step up now. I'm trying to reamin optimistic .... but 4th place may be the best we can hope for this year.

[daedalus]

According to Sky, they seemed to have been chasing Simao from Benfica more than Solano. Looks like Benitez's attention was mainly in players from La Liga. Which makes sense, given that he probably know those players a lot better than players from the Premiership.

I still think they could be duking it out with Arsenal for 3rd (how pathetic is THAT?), especially if Benitez would be willing to play less defensively on the road in league games. Especially against lesser opponents who they should bury anyway.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by daedalus

According to Sky, they seemed to have been chasing Simao from Benfica more than Solano. Looks like Benitez's attention was mainly in players from La Liga. Which makes sense, given that he probably know those players a lot better than players from the Premiership.

I still think they could be duking it out with Arsenal for 3rd (how pathetic is THAT?), especially if Benitez would be willing to play less defensively on the road in league games. Especially against lesser opponents who they should bury anyway.

That's the problem. They initially made overtures to Solano (who was very affordable given his age), and several others but then they made a last minute dally after Simao. The deal fell through, and by the time they went back to Solano, he was rightly miffed and signed with Newcastle. Don't get me wrong if they had pulled off Simao i would be happy, but they fact that they came away with nothing suggests they really botched the transfer process. This after they miscalculated on the Gonazlez work permit deal earlier.

They're still a better team than last year, but watching Arsenal play, Arsenal has much more class in the premier league - they are much more creative on offense. And I say that as a Liverpool supporter. We'll see what happens, and what occurs at the midseason transfer window, but I'd take 4th place at the moment.

[daedalus]

I think it's because Wenger has Arsenal on constant attack so everyone has to play defensive against us, especially the lower rated teams in the premiership. Where Benitez's policy of playing 4-5-1 on the road helps in European play, in my opinion, it hurts in league play since they don't offer the same "fear".

I don't really care about Owens (I don't think he fits Arsenal) or Jenas. In fact, I'm even over not getting Baptista and don't really care that Vieira was sold. I am miffed that we didn't bother with Davids and Bouma. No, Davids isn't what he once was. But he would have been someone who could have provided bite in the back and allow Fabregas to do his thing in attack. Especially given Gilberto's past issue with his back and the fact that I think trying to 50 games on him is silly. And, damn it, we're relying on two brittle commanding centrebacks and one very good and durable centreback who needs a commanding centreback to pair with to excel. With Bouma on hand, Cygan and his newfound big-scoring way could have just waited out his return to Ligue 1 on the bench in the reserves.

[Mac Howard]

I was surprised that Bouma went to the Premiership without much more competition for his signature. I would have been happy to see him at Utd

[daedalus]

I wouldn't have been. I don't really relish the possibility of a Bouma-Ferdinand pairing when Arsenal is trying to chase the Evil Empire.

[ISiddiqui]

US-Mexico tomorrow night folks! Winner gets in the WC (loser probably will as well sometime in the future). Of course, it goes against Boise St v. Georgia (thanks USSF!)

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by daedalus

I wouldn't have been. I don't really relish the possibility of a Bouma-Ferdinand pairing when Arsenal is trying to chase the Evil Empire.

You mean Silvestre doesn't do it for you?

[daedalus]

Oh, no knock on Silvestre since I was under the impression that he was solid (although other seems to be down on him). I just dig both Bouma and Ferdinand.

[moriarty]

Uh-oh, England down to NIreland w/ 10 minutes to play. There's going to be holy hell to play if this holds up.

[andy m]

this is great news. the sooner sven gets fired the better, hopefully it will happen tomorrow.

it just shocks me repeatedly that he is unable to get such a decent bunch of players to play good football.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by andy m

this is great news. the sooner sven gets fired the better, hopefully it will happen tomorrow.

it just shocks me repeatedly that he is unable to get such a decent bunch of players to play good football.

I'm just listening to the commentary, but they sound totally uninspired and the 4-5-1 is apparently a dud.

[andy m]

well, the formation was a solid one, rooney and wright phillips playing off owen should work well, and beckham in the holding role is a good idea too, he can spray passes all over the field. but the team just seems to lack any desire or genuine will to win. and i feel that must be the managers fault. either he is unable to motivate them, or the players are unmotivatable, in which case he should drop them and pick someone else.

[SirFozzie]

belfast is burning...

Red Sox 1916-2004
N.Ireland over England 1927-2005

You Gotta Believe

[moriarty]

Is this enough to do in Sven?

[SirFozzie]

BTW, if Sven still has his job on sunday, he'll be lucky...

[andy m]

so long sven, and thanks for all the shite.

[Critch]

"Lord Nelson, Lord Beaverbrook, Sir Winston Churchill, Sir Anthony Eden, Clement Attlee, Henry Cooper, Lady Diana, Maggie Thatcher, can you hear me? Maggie Thatcher [...] your boys took a hell of a beating! Your boys took a hell of a beating!"

Great stuff, and made all the better by a Scotland win in Norway.

[Katon]

Have I ever mentioned how grateful I am to Peter Kenyon for screwing up his negotiations with Eriksson?

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by andy m

well, the formation was a solid one, rooney and wright phillips playing off owen should work well, and beckham in the holding role is a good idea too, he can spray passes all over the field. but the team just seems to lack any desire or genuine will to win. and i feel that must be the managers fault. either he is unable to motivate them, or the players are unmotivatable, in which case he should drop them and pick someone else.

Have to disagree: we shoould not be trying to play off a 5 foot nothing centre forward (Owen): he should be playing off/with another forward. Rooney is wasted out wide as he does not get into the areas where he is really dangerous. Similarly Beckham looks excellent spraying the passes around but he is not doing damage with the passes from the position he is in (not his fault - it's the position he has been asked to play in). Plus with Beckham hitting these balls, it takes Gerrard and Lampard almost completely out of the game.

Out of our 6 attacking players, only Beckham and Wright-Phillips were in their natural positions, and it showed - they were the best two players in the first half when we were marginally better than the dire second half.

4-4-2 is our set-up, and unfortunately we have to drop one of Lampard/Gerrard - or Stevie G gets the wide left spot as in the Euros (beacuse I think Wright-Phillips has shown enough to start on the right)

I'm not sure if Sven should go, just because we are at a very critical point in the WC qualifiers - but having said that is the risk of a change less than the risk of him continuing to fail to generate performances?

His substitutions were strange: took Wright-Phillips off who, although he did have a slow start to the second half, was the main link with Beckham and our best attacking threat, while Gerrard and Lampard were anonymous all game (due to the 4-5-1 in my opinion). So we take off SWP, but then put Joe Cole on the right (when he has generally done OK on the left, apart from the Wales game), Beckham in the middle and Rooney out wide, which clearly wasn;t working.

Then he gets it right and takes off Gerrard and Lampard, for Defoe (who is too similar to Owen and I honestly can;t remember Defoe doing anything at all today, maybe beacuse of this), and then puts on Hargreaves to win the game! Can anyone tell me what Hargreaves actually does? All he did today was give the ball away once 25 yards out (for which we were lucky the ref gave a FK as the ball was about to run on to another NI player 20 yards out) and then very nearly does it again 5 minutes later?

We need to look at the forwards in the squad - we need something different: Owen and Defoe are like-for-like, Rooney isn't too far removed but far more skilful, and AJ is just not good enough. So we have very limited options. Heskey appears to be out of the picture, but he does give you different options - maybe Crouch is the alternative forward, but given his injury surely we should include Emile on the bench in Crouch's absence, as he gives you a physical presence up front, and he's got 3(?) goals this year, so is in form...

I'm not convinced by Sven, but it's clear the 4-5-1 was a knee jerk response to a horrendous performance in the Denmark friendly. It's also clear this doesn't work, and there are severe question marks over his motivational and tactical acumen (can anybody tell me one game in which Sven's England have looked better in the 2nd half than the 1st?).

Having said that, you have to admire Northern Ireland's work rate, belief and organisation - they deserved a result, created the best chance and put it away. We did nothing.

[AlexB]

Dola - (my first dola! Used correctly?)

Darren Bent was on the bench, who was kept out of the crunch U-21 game for this match, and is a bit more physical, and has also started the season very well, but maybe it was a bit unfair on him to throw him on for his first game in the circumstances...

Which begs the question why have him on the bench in the first place if you weren't going to use him?

[Critch]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

belfast is burning...

Only one half of belfast will be celebrating tonight, the other half's team got beat 1-0 by France in Dublin. Great goal by Henry.

[McSweeny]

yep, we're crying for The Republic as they lost 1-0 against France in Dublin. They now have to win at Cyprus and win in Dublin against Switzerland and hope for some other favorable results to qualify. Very frustrating, i had thought that Ireland had a very good chance to win the group.

[Critch]

I was thinking it looked bad for Ireland, being 3 points behind both France and Switzerland, but looking at the remaining fixtures I'd still expect them to get the playoff. France have still to play Switzerland, so they're both not getting full points.

As long as Ireland can get full points in Cyprus, they'll pretty much be going into the final game (home to Switzerland) knowing that a win gets them the playoff. Cyprus is the key.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Ugh, sucks that Ireland lost as that puts France in good shape to qualify.

(One less shot for the U.S. to vulture a seed...)

[bhlloy]

A few thoughts from a non-England fan:

The substitutions almost deserve to get Sven fired on their own. What the hell Hargreaves is going to add to the attack in a (pretty much - they must have known Poland were winning) must win game I have no idea. Wright Phillips was the only England player that looked dangerous. Defoe and Owen are the exact same player and Bent has been on fire so far this season. Just some dumb, dumb moves.

The 4-5-1 just doesn't seem to work. I don't know if Gerrard, Beckham and Lampard just can't play together together (too many cooks and all that) but none of them is shining. When you have players that world-class, a formation shift really shouldn't matter that much to their individual play.

Owen has always seemed to play well off somebody else. I'm not sure he can create his own chances in a 4-5-1.

Rooney is not a left winger in a million years. Playing behind the striker or in a free role fine, but he can't play as an out and out winger. He looked to be completely wasted in this role.

Carragher again seemed to be way below international standard. That shouldn't be a long term issue, but I'd maybe give Upson a go instead if Terry or Campbell are out.

[bhlloy]

DOLA - wow I just read Jari's post and we pretty much said the same thing. I guess great minds and all that...

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

DOLA - wow I just read Jari's post and we pretty much said the same thing. I guess great minds and all that...

At least it reassures me that my blow off steam post retained a sense of objectivity

But if we can see this, as I assume normal fans, why cant somebody paid £4m a year see it?

[Mac Howard]

I dislike the 4-5-1/4-3-3 system intensely. It's particularly useless against bunker defences. If your two front wide men stay out wide your central striker is massively outnumbered. If they play narrow then the opposition fullbacks become centre backs and their wide midfielders central midfielders. You're running into a brick wall of two banks of four defenders. The opposition penalty area looks like Picadilly Circus.

Not only that but at least one and sometimes two of your central midfielders become surplus to requirements - hence Lampard's and Gerrard's performances in this game.

And in England's case, in Rooney and Owen they have a natural front pairing - not two of an effective front three.

Against the bunker defence you need to two wide men to stretch them and two men in the middle up front to finish. That comes from 4-4-2 or 3-5-2. With little attacking pressure to cope with two men in CM are enough.

Go, Sven, go! England have the best collection of individuals they've had for a long time - and the worst team.

[terpkristin]

Reminds me of the USA Basketball team during the 2004 Olympics...a great team, talent-wise (ok, somewaht arguable, but anyway), but they couldn't figure out how to work together and play as a team..

That WILL be the downfall of most teams in situations like this. Including England, me thinks...

/tk

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Ugh, sucks that Ireland lost as that puts France in good shape to qualify.

(One less shot for the U.S. to vulture a seed...)

Did you REALLY think France was going to muck it up that badly, earlier results notwithstanding?


I will say that the England - Northern Ireland result was funny as Hell. I mean if you stuck with Sven this long, you deserve it, frankly.

[andy m]

the fans don't deserve any of this at all, they can't influence the ridiculous decision to keep sven in charge for so long when its plain he has the tactical genius of a squid.

[Sadalia]

Odds are they still won't qualify, but

Norway 1 : Scotland 2

made me very happy indeed. If only they'd managed to hold on against Italy the other night I'd be more optimistic. Probably just as well: optimism and following Scotland usually do not mix well.

Didn't get to see the game (I'm in Chicago), but from the papers it sounds like Kenny Miller, of all people, is all of a sudden striking fear into international defences. Weird.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Sadalia

Didn't get to see the game (I'm in Chicago), but from the papers it sounds like Kenny Miller, of all people, is all of a sudden striking fear into international defences. Weird.

Hey, that's no excuse, it was on Setanta USA Surprisingly we looked good. Took our chances well, then looked controlled in the second half. Ferguson and Fletcher ran midfield. Despite having a lot of posession in the second half, Norway didnt look like getting back into it.

Pity we hung on with Berti Vogts for so long, Walter Smith a couple of games earlier and we'd be top of the group

[Sadalia]

Originally Posted by Critch

Hey, that's no excuse, it was on Setanta USA Surprisingly we looked good. Took our chances well, then looked controlled in the second half. Ferguson and Fletcher ran midfield. Despite having a lot of posession in the second half, Norway didnt look like getting back into it.

Pity we hung on with Berti Vogts for so long, Walter Smith a couple of games earlier and we'd be top of the group

Yes, Vogts should have gone long before he did: any time you have a team looking repeatedly clueless (bit like England's recent games from the sound of it) you should take a good look at the manager. So, Scotland have to win their last two games and hope Norway lose one of theirs. Otherwise, it'll be another Scottish "if only...", but with hope for a good qualifying campaign for the next European Championships. Which, according to The Scotsman, might be tougher, since Scotland could slip into the fifth band of seeds due to recent awfulness. Thanks, Berti.

[andy m]

scotland fans know whats coming though. this always happens. a false dawn, raised hopes, shattered dreams.

[Critch]

Not this time, we're already pretty much out and we're blaming it all on Berti. So anything that happens now is a happy shock, no heartbreak if we don't make it.

Heartbreak will be making it's summer home further south, hopefully.

To be honest there's not really been any heartbreak about the Scotland World Cup team since '78. Since then it's been more knowing that we arent going to win and quite happy when the team comes back having not made asses of themselves on an international stage.

[terpkristin]

Just saw in my BBC Daily Email (where I get soccer news and international news and Arsenal news) that it's been said that Sven's position is safe...that's usually the kiss of death here in the States. As soon as someone is told that they're going to keep their job, they get ousted pretty quickly (at least, in sports)...

Link

Originally Posted by BBC

England manager Sven-Goran Eriksson held talks with Football Association officials on the flight home after his side's defeat in Northern Ireland. But FA sources have told BBC Sport that Eriksson's job is not in immediate danger and that the Swede still has the support of the players.

The 1-0 defeat left England five points behind leaders Poland in Group Six.

Eriksson has cancelled plans to attend the Ashes Test at The Oval to avoid taking the focus away from the cricket.


Eriksson had indicated before the defeat in Belfast that he would attempt to rearrange his diary to watch the second day's action at The Oval.


"I hope to go see it on Friday. If you live in England, you should go to see it at least once to know something about it," he revealed earlier this week.

England now need to win their final two home games to be sure of qualifying for the finals in Germany next summer.

"According to one FA source I spoke to, 'Sven has a lot of thinking to do', particularly about the midfield and about the formations," said BBC Five Live football correspondent Jonathan Legard.

"But nobody I spoke to believes those thoughts should involve resignation, and nor was anyone at the FA looking to sack him.

"He's got this contract until 2008. They are confident he will still take England to the World Cup.

"I was told also that he has not lost the players, although one person did tell me he thought David Beckham was running the show, which is a possible explanation why Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard are not quite on the same wavelength at the moment."

There were calls for Eriksson's sacking from England fans during and after the game in Belfast on Wednesday.

But Eriksson, whose contract runs until 2008, insists he has no intention of quitting.


"If you want to know who is responsible, then it's always me. I have to turn it right," he said.

"It's about working, talking and not panicking. I could not even dream of not qualifying for the World Cup.

"We have to win the next two games. Will I quit if we don't? We are going to win them and that's it."

/tk

[Galaxy]

Though I would bump this:

The biggest suprise is in Scotland with Hearts. Are they for real? Where did this team come from to take on The Old Firm?

[Critch]

They were bought over by a Lithuanian businessman with money to burn, he's brought in a good manager (George Burley) and brought in a number of good players, mainly on loan deals. Whether he's serious about Hearts and is an Abramovich-lite, or whether he's a money maker with some scam going on remains to be seen. Rumors that he may be the later, some fairly shady things are rumored to be going on. Hearts are also helped by the fact that the Old Firm are as disjounted and as ordinary as they have been in a long time, it's probably over 20 years since they were both this poor at the same time.

Good luck to the Jambos though, hopefully they don't mess it up on the last day of the season like they did last time they were serious challengers. The sight of grown men openly crying in the streets while wearing maroon and white scarfs is something that still haunts me even now, 20 years later. If something that you thought was really funny can haunt you.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Critch

They were bought over by a Lithuanian businessman with money to burn, he's brought in a good manager (George Burley) and brought in a number of good players, mainly on loan deals. Whether he's serious about Hearts and is an Abramovich-lite, or whether he's a money maker with some scam going on remains to be seen. Rumors that he may be the later, some fairly shady things are rumored to be going on. Hearts are also helped by the fact that the Old Firm are as disjounted and as ordinary as they have been in a long time, it's probably over 20 years since they were both this poor at the same time.

Good luck to the Jambos though, hopefully they don't mess it up on the last day of the season like they did last time they were serious challengers. The sight of grown men openly crying in the streets while wearing maroon and white scarfs is something that still haunts me even now, 20 years later. If something that you thought was really funny can haunt you.

Shady things, such as?

[Critch]

The Lithuanian who owns Hearts (Vladimir Romanov, an ethnic Russian with a fairly shady past in black marketeering) also owns a handful of other teams in Eastern Europe, it's hard to be sure who he owns though. Officially he doesn't own a single share in Hearts either, he just has a controlling interest in some companies that do own some Hearts shares.

Allegedly none of the players signed by Hearts are officially registered with Hearts, they're all officially owned by another of Romanov's teams, Kaunus in Lithuania and only at Hearts on loan deals. So when/if Hearts sell on these players, they'll see none of the profits. It gives the impression that Romanov is signing players (he's been signing players without the consent of the Hearts team manager), using Hearts as a shopwindow to show them off with a view to selling them on with the profit being directed elsewhere. Recently Romanov has also been in talks with another Scottish club about finding them players and adding them to his stable of clubs (something that breaks UEFA rules, but is hard to prove if the trail to who actually owns the shares is muddy enough, like with Abramovich's Chelsea/CSKA/Corinthians rumors.)

When Romanov took control of Hearts they were in serious debt, now they still have the same debt. The fact that reducing the debts seems to have been overlooked raises questions about how long term the plans for Hearts are.

Or maybe it's all just distrust of a shady Eastern European businessman who buys over a Scottish club, with the press assuming he's being driven by something more than a love of soccer. Who knows? Maybe it'll all turn out ok for Hearts.

[SirFozzie]

Interesting situation (brought up over on BigSoccer)


Forgive the wholesale quote from a guy from BarraBrava, but he does such a good job of summing up the situation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBulldog
Not sure if anyone's aware of this but since Red Bull owner took over Austria Salzburg he

1) changed club name from SV Austria Salzburg to Redbull Salzburg
2) changed their colors from violet/white to red/white/blue
3) changed traditional AS sign to a sign with red bull logo
4) violet is prohibited color on stadium, people wearing it are banned from grounds/arrested
5) changed club est. year from 1933 to 2005
6) new matches are like a disco show, they have laser lights going around stands during game
.......

http://www.tgs92.com/tradition/index-uk.html

http://www.violett-weiss.at/index.en.php


Emphasis mine.

Barra Brava have done their part for solidarity with Salzburg:
http://www.violett-weiss.at/img/solidaritaet/us2.jpg

And as a former Salzburger myself I'd like to do something similar. OK with everyone?

Oh, and by the way - Boycott Red Bull.

-Doug