The Soccer Thread

[Desnudo]

Manchester United haters or dislikers, I'd suggest watching the Norwich v. Man U match for an uplifting experience. Replay on FSC at 2 AM EST.

Spoiler:

Don't get Cocky

[SirFozzie]

3-0 Revs over the Crew.

Man, reading the Columbus board, there are some very VERY bitter people there.

I love it

[Eaglesfan27]

The Chivas - San Jose game today was one of the more entertaining MLS soccer games I've ever seen.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Manchester United haters or dislikers, I'd suggest watching the Norwich v. Man U match for an uplifting experience. Replay on FSC at 2 AM EST.

I actually saw the final 10 mins or so of this today, just happened across it & decided to watch just to see the end.

[Mac Howard]

I watched it all but without any pleasure. If you want to see how a manager can screw up his team then this has to be for you

How's this for an idiotic lineup:

...........................................Saha

........Fortune......Scholes......Neville.......Kleberson....Smith
.....(mediocre).....(quality)...(mediocre)....(mediocre)...(striker)

Heinze.............Silvestre.........................Ferdinand...........Neville

..........................................Howard

when you have van Nistelrooy (world class), Rooney (world class), Ronaldo (quality) and Keane (fading world class) on the bench? That's five players strung across a narrow midfield - one quality midfielder, three mediocre midfielders and a striker - and just one striker with two world class strikers and two first class midfielder on the bench.

And this against a team that has conceded 25 goals in the last 9 games.

Any wonder the first half stats read: possession 68%, shots on goal nil! The complacency was astonishing and reaped a just reward

[Desnudo]

I think it was pure hubris, trying to get away with that weak lineup, and Fergie got paid back for it.

[daedalus]

Just reading the recap on Sky, I got the impression that Van Nistelrooij was not fully fit. Is that true?

Fortune on the wing seems an odd choice. I thought he was fairly solid as a left back (maybe not at Heinze's level but, y'know, solid) and probably solid as well as an inside left midfielder. He doesn't seem to me to be the attacking option on the left wing.

In the recap, I also got the impression that when Saha was hurt, he was replaced by C. Ronaldo instead of one of the strikers. That seems odd.

Did y'all think this was arrogance by Ferguson? That he felt Arsenal was able to beat them easily last time (albeit with mostly first teamers) so he should be able to beat them easily as well? Or was it change out of necessity?

[MrBug708]

If Donovan keeps playing like he played tonight, coming back to the MLS was pointless unless he's planning on setting every MLS record for the heck of it...

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Just reading the recap on Sky, I got the impression that Van Nistelrooij was not fully fit. Is that true?

Fortune on the wing seems an odd choice. I thought he was fairly solid as a left back (maybe not at Heinze's level but, y'know, solid) and probably solid as well as an inside left midfielder. He doesn't seem to me to be the attacking option on the left wing.

In the recap, I also got the impression that when Saha was hurt, he was replaced by C. Ronaldo instead of one of the strikers. That seems odd.

Did y'all think this was arrogance by Ferguson? That he felt Arsenal was able to beat them easily last time (albeit with mostly first teamers) so he should be able to beat them easily as well? Or was it change out of necessity?

I think it was definitely overconfidence, and the players picked up on it. The next match is on April 17, so resting players was a luxury, not a necesity.

[daedalus]

Harsh. I, of course, root for the Gooners but I would have preferred to beat the Evil Empire (to 2nd place, blech) because we finished the season strong and not because they fubar'ed.

[MIJB#19]

Ruud van Nistelrooij is heavily out of form after rushing back form injury.

[ice4277]

I watched the whole Man U/Norwich game and for long stretches of it you would have had a problem telling which team was in the top 3 and which was bottom of the league. It seems like the players, at least those on the field, had already packed it in by kickoff.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Just reading the recap on Sky, I got the impression that Van Nistelrooij was not fully fit. Is that true?

He was out for about three months and came back about three weeks ago. I think he's had about five matches since and should be back to fitness now. I saw him playing for Holland and looked sharp in that match but international football is played at a slower pace than the Premiership and teams don't tend to play with the eight defenders that deny strikers any space that Utd often meet.

Fortune on the wing seems an odd choice. I thought he was fairly solid as a left back (maybe not at Heinze's level but, y'know, solid) and probably solid as well as an inside left midfielder. He doesn't seem to me to be the attacking option on the left wing.

He is a midfielder by experience - he played left back at the beginning of the season when Utd had 8 or 9 injuries and Heinze was at the Argentinian team in the Olympics. He fills in sometimes at left back.

He's been at Utd now for a number of seasons but doesn't seem to have improved much. He is merely a competent player.

That's Utd's trouble - the moment you move away from the first 12/13 players then the quality drops dramatically.

In the recap, I also got the impression that when Saha was hurt, he was replaced by C. Ronaldo instead of one of the strikers. That seems odd.

Yes, Ronaldo replaced Saha. But Smith moved from right midfield to striker and Ronaldo went to right midfield. It improved the shape a little but Smith isn't a quality striker - all effort, little skill - and Ronaldo shows signs of being over-coached for me.The coaching staff have taken out the excessive stepovers but seem to have taken much of his flair and enthusiasm out as well.

Did y'all think this was arrogance by Ferguson? That he felt Arsenal was able to beat them easily last time (albeit with mostly first teamers) so he should be able to beat them easily as well? Or was it change out of necessity?

Arrogant? Complacent for sure and I think also in not accepting his own culpability for Utd's recent failure against Blackburn.

I don't think there's any doubt he believed that the team he put out would be capable of taking care of Norwich. They are a poor team - last in the Premiership and leak goals like a sieve. It's seven months since they've kept a clean sheet and have conceded 63 goals so far - the nearest is only 51. I think they've lost eight of their last nine matchs. Something like that.

Doubtless he had next week's FA Cup semi-final in mind - he left out Keane because he's on eight yellow cards and another one will see him automatically banned and therefore out of the semi-final if he picked up a yellow card here. So that was understandable.

But Utd haven't been scoring goals - to a degree because they've continued to suffer injuries and particularly to strikers. Van Nistelrooy is merely the latest and this was Saha first match for some time. There's little cohesion in their attacking play despite the qualitiy of their strikers when fit.

But cohesion only comes with playing together and leaving out Ronaldo (initially), Rooney and RvN was never going to improve that. What's more, van Nistelrooy needs the playing time to reach full match fitness.

So, he may have felt that he was getting something over to the players for their performance against Blackburn (he ranted that he was going to drop a few players in the immediate aftermath) but it was really something of a fit of pique and not something a manager of his experience should do.

In the end he had all these players on the pitch anyway playing a pretty desperate game and, as far as I can see, merely succeeded in knocking confidence down another notch

[ice4277]

Changing leagues for a second, anybody going to be watching the Madrid-Barca match today? Should be a good one.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Critch

Oh yes, TiVo set for Real Madrid v Barcelona later on, looking forward to it.

Just finished watching Udinese v Roma, if any of you can catch it later in the week replayed on GolTV, I'd recommend it. Great game.

I wanted to watch it but just got home. Definitely will record it later in the week. I just got GolTV yesterday actually, and am very glad to be able to watch Serie A and Primera Liga games again.

[Critch]

Oh yes, TiVo set for Real Madrid v Barcelona later on, looking forward to it.

Just finished watching Udinese v Roma, if any of you can catch it later in the week replayed on GolTV, I'd recommend it. Great game.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by ice4277

I wanted to watch it but just got home. Definitely will record it later in the week. I just got GolTV yesterday actually, and am very glad to be able to watch Serie A and Primera Liga games again.

it's a 1 o clock start here on GolTV

[ice4277]

Right, I meant the Udinese-Roma match, sorry.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm shocked that Newcastle was even able to field a full squad with all the players who were red carded against Villa and the injuries. Didn't help 'em fielding one anyway .

[ice4277]

Well the Madrid-Barca match was compelling stuff to watch. Not the most technically precise display by any means, but the end-to-end action, especially in the first half, was incredible.

***SPOILERS***








Barcelona was WAY too sloppy in their own area. Madrid got at least half a dozen free headers and other chances, especially off set pieces. I don't know if I've ever seen a free kick played so poorly at that level as the one where Ronaldo scored. Full credit to Madrid though, they came to play, and showed just how damn tough they can be to beat when they are giving it their all. Should be a great final few rounds to end the season.

[condors]

anyone watch the Aston Villa vs WBA match?

I am not sure WBA is going to avoid the drop but they sure are playing so much better than at the start of the season.

The race at the bottom of the table is interesting. I am not sure that Portsmouth and Fulham are as safe as i thought they were a few weeks ago.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by condors

anyone watch the Aston Villa vs WBA match?

I am not sure WBA is going to avoid the drop but they sure are playing so much better than at the start of the season.

The race at the bottom of the table is interesting. I am not sure that Portsmouth and Fulham are as safe as i thought they were a few weeks ago.

Didn't catch much of that one but West Brom has done a 180 since Robson took over. Its definitely much more interesting at the bottom now, even Norwich can't be counted out after their win this weekend.

[PilotMan]

I saw this headline pop up on my yahoo! page and I gotta say I chuckled as Marc was the first person I thought of.

Unfair to compare Vaughan with Rooney, say Everton -

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ice4277

Well the Madrid-Barca match was compelling stuff to watch. Not the most technically precise display by any means, but the end-to-end action, especially in the first half, was incredible.

***SPOILERS***








Barcelona was WAY too sloppy in their own area. Madrid got at least half a dozen free headers and other chances, especially off set pieces. I don't know if I've ever seen a free kick played so poorly at that level as the one where Ronaldo scored.

Got to agree with that, if Ronaldo hadn't been there, Zidane would have scored. When your defense is leaving Ronaldo and Zidane unmarked in the middle of your penalty area from a free kick, you're doing something wrong.

A good game though the commentary was horrible due to the technical difficulties. Sounded like Max Bretos, one of the worst commentators for any sport, though I'm not sure why he'd be popping up on GolTV. Usually one of the plus points for GolTV over FSC is the standard of the commentary, whether it's taking the UK tv feed (the two guys doing the Italian soccer are great) or with their own guys (especially Lindsey Dean). They are generally way more able than whoever FSC has plucked out of the local college with a communications degree and no soccer knowledge.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by ice4277

I don't know if I've ever seen a free kick played so poorly at that level as the one where Ronaldo scored.

Have you by chance seen Arsenal's dead-ball defense this season? Were they as bad as the Gunners?

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Critch

Got to agree with that, if Ronaldo hadn't been there, Zidane would have scored. When your defense is leaving Ronaldo and Zidane unmarked in the middle of your penalty area from a free kick, you're doing something wrong.

A good game though the commentary was horrible due to the technical difficulties. Sounded like Max Bretos, one of the worst commentators for any sport, though I'm not sure why he'd be popping up on GolTV. Usually one of the plus points for GolTV over FSC is the standard of the commentary, whether it's taking the UK tv feed (the two guys doing the Italian soccer are great) or with their own guys (especially Lindsey Dean). They are generally way more able than whoever FSC has plucked out of the local college with a communications degree and no soccer knowledge.

I like Bretos (and Hopkins).

Miles, I don't like, but the guys he's done MLS with the past two weeks have been absolutely horendous! Did anyone watch the MLS game on FSC and notice how bad the guy this week (Derk Droze) was?!?!?!?!

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Have you by chance seen Arsenal's dead-ball defense this season? Were they as bad as the Gunners?

Yes, and yes, if not worse.

[ice4277]

dola

Although I must say, generally speaking, Barca's defense is better than Arsenal's. This seems to have been a one-time deal.

[daedalus]

Wow. I can't say much but wow. Hopefully, it is a one-time deal as you say. It's nice to have Barca a foil for Real.

[andy m]

only relevant story from the weekend:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...et/4429867.stm

[DaddyTorgo]

mmmmn....Bayern vs. Chelsea! yummy!!

[Desnudo]

Too bad Chelsea scored first. I think we're going to see some serious negative football in the second half.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Too bad Chelsea scored first. I think we're going to see some serious negative football in the second half.

Argh!!! I'm TiVo-ing!!

[Desnudo]

Sorry, I meant Bayern Munich scored four unanswered, actually.




*Spoiler*





TBH, I'd fast forward to the second half. The first half was boring.

[SirFozzie]

Spoiler:

In case you're wondering, Bayern need three unanswered goals to go through.

AC Milan scored against Inter, which basically puts it away, thanks to the away goal, Inter need FOUR to advance

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Spoiler:

In case you're wondering, Bayern need three unanswered goals to go through.

AC Milan scored against Inter, which basically puts it away, thanks to the away goal, Inter need FOUR to advance

****SPOILER**** (Sort Of)




I think Milan basically but that tie away last week. Inter gave no indications of being able to beat them over two legs.

[3ric]

The Milan - Inter appears to be stopped at 76 minutes after Inter fans threw in Bengal Fires at Milan keeper Dida. Referee Markus Merk had ruled out a goal by Cambiasso only minutes earlier.

[ice4277]

dola ****SPOILER**** Sort of





Was I the only person who had the FM commentary line "The Bayern Munich fans are leaving the stadium early!!!" go through my head when ESPN showed the picture of the crowd in about the 82nd minute

[Desnudo]

Not really close though.

[DaddyTorgo]

so close. so close. damn Lucio! It's all his fault!

[SirFozzie]

Interesting, Rangers lost to Dundee in the Scottish Premier League

[SirFozzie]

Bayern get another in stoppage time to make it 6-5.

Inter-AC abandoned due to idiot fans pelting the field

Holy shit..



AC Milan's semi-final against Inter Milan had to be abandoned amid scenes of ugly crowd trouble by Inter's fans.

The game was halted after Inter supporters threw flares and bottles in the Milan area after Esteban Cambiasso had a header ruled out late on.

Inter were already heading out of the competition after Andriy Shevchenko's stunning first-half strike gave Milan an unassailable 3-0 aggregate lead.

Inter are likely to face severe sanctions after a flare hit Dida.

The Brazilian was lucky to be hit on the shoulder by the firework, which missed his head by a matter of inches.

The flares and projectiles continued to rain down onto the pitch as referee Markus Merk waved both sets of players to the halfway line.

Merk then instructed the players to leave the pitch, which was fraught with danger as the tunnel was situated where Inter fans were causing the trouble.

It was a dreadful way for the game, which had otherwise been conducted in a friendly fashion, to end.

But the orchestrated manner of the attacks suggests that the trouble may well have been premeditated.

In any case, Uefa is likely to come down hard on Inter for failing to control their fans at a time when European football has been remembering the Heysel disaster 20 years ago.

Fears over crowd trouble at the Juventus-Liverpool quarter-final in Turin on Wednesday will no doubt surface.

The game had got off to a controversial start after Shevchenko appeared to headbutt Marco Materazzi.

[SirFozzie]

They are now saying it looks like a premeditated group effort. I don't think you'll see Inter Milan in Europe next year...

[SirFozzie]

(in response to DaddyTorgo's comment below)

They actively work around security. There's limited things they can do to fear of stampedes/crush type situations.

Rumors are flying that A) Italian teams will see some kind of restriction next year due to all the incidents about their fans, and B) Inter Milan will be barred from European play for at least one year.

[DaddyTorgo]

psycho inter fans. They ought to face serious sanctions after this. I've always wondered though, how is it that these stadiums don't have like...zero-tolerance policies and people getting patted down at the gates and stuff like we do here in the US? I remember being patted down before going to a national team game at Foxboro and told I couldn't bring anything in, not even a bottle of water. How is it these European stadiums people get in with flares and shit?

[DaddyTorgo]

you don't see these types of things at college football games here in the US though, where there are comprable numbers of fans. Or at NFL games. I just don't get how crowd-control which is so advanced and understood there is so misunderstood there with such ridiculous results. I mean I know they work around security, but my point is that security has to allow itself to be worked around really. It's difficult to control yes, but it's by no means impossible.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

you don't see these types of things at college football games here in the US though, where there are comprable numbers of fans. Or at NFL games. I just don't get how crowd-control which is so advanced and understood there is so misunderstood there with such ridiculous results. I mean I know they work around security, but my point is that security has to allow itself to be worked around really. It's difficult to control yes, but it's by no means impossible.

It seems like Italy is where England was 20 years ago. Although you still have random incidents in England, like that flare thrower at Old Trafford, they stand out for their rarity. The drive to change must come from the national FA and filter down from team management. Zero tolerance, lifetime bans for fans, assigned seating, increased security. Pretty easy to implement. FIFA can only do so much.

[MIJB#19]

Feyenoord got penalised with 1 game without public after seeing their fans attacking a visiting goal keeper with fire works in an UEFA Cup matches about a month or two ago. I'm expecting the same penalty or something less, as Inter 'fans' don't have the reputation Feyenoord's have.

[Galaxy]

What was the Heysel incident 20 years ago? Was before my time. England improved with the assigned seating, correct?

It's kinda interesting. Their, the fans go pyscho, here it's usually we got the dumb players.

How is the status of Dida?

Also, any games on ESPN2 tomarrow?

[Desnudo]

Liverpool v. Juve