Does anyone like this guy?

[The_herd]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think you got the facts wrong. Taylor fired Rosenhaus after the draft, negotiated his deal with a different agent, and is now about to re-hire Rosenhaus. You make it sound as if Rosenhaus negotiated Taylors contract, which he did not.

Sorry, thats what I was reading. The WT must have gotten the agents flipped.

Sean Taylor fired his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, a week after Rosenhaus showed rare urgency to get his contract done with the Redskins before training camp. It's believed Taylor will try to rework his seven-year, $18 million contract.
-- The Washington Times

[Franklinnoble]

Taylor CAN'T rework his contract this year. League rules forbid it, and the Redskins are in no way motivated to work with him on it. His best bet is to work his ass off and MAYBE re-negotiate next season, if he feels he was wronged.

The bottom line is that his deal is very fair. It's not Eli Manning money, but he'd be stupid to expect that. He's a safety. Not a wide receiver or quarterback.

[Dawgfan1980]

Did I hear right that the offer the Browns put on the table was in line with his draft status (Winslow) at the six spot, but they were holding out for the money that a player of his status deserves. Top overall money, they were talking. How stupid do you have to be to not realize that you were not drafted first, and it isn't a conspiracy (a word he can't spell), but that you are only the sixth (and that is a push) best player in this draft. I am starting a petetion to get the Browns to play the Broncos, so John Lynch can hit Winslow (Emphasis on slow with that guys IQ) so hard he eats through a tube for a few months? Not that I would ever wish an injury on a stupid bastard.

[The_herd]

I've read that the Postons and the Browns are at least $15 million apart on a deal. Thats with the Browns offering to make him the highest paid TE in the NFL, which actually placed him a little higher than his number six spot.

I'm getting the feeling a player that signs with the Postons will never go in the top 10 again. I hope they love destroying clients draft status just by having their named attatched to the player.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by The_herd

I've read that the Postons and the Browns are at least $15 million apart on a deal. Thats with the Browns offering to make him the highest paid TE in the NFL, which actually placed him a little higher than his number six spot.

I'm getting the feeling a player that signs with the Postons will never go in the top 10 again. I hope they love destroying clients draft status just by having their named attatched to the player.

I wonder if there's a way you can slap a franchise tag on a newly drafted player, thus forcing him to accept the average of the top five players in the league..

This situation is way outta hand... Winslow is asking for the kind of money that will basically cripple his own team for years to come. It's f'ing stupid.

[RainRaven]

The Browns know the kind of individual Winslow is and they know what kind of agents the Postons are so hence I have no sympathy for them.

[rkmsuf]

The Browns should just say f it and let Winslow go wash cars.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am happy the Lions decided to pass on Winslow, trade down a spot in the draft that gave them additional 2nd round pick which they they turned into a first rounder (with a few others tossed in) which they used to draft Kevin Jones, and draft Roy Williams. I am pleased with all of this at the moment.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I am happy the Lions decided to pass on Winslow, trade down a spot in the draft that gave them additional 2nd round pick which they they turned into a first rounder (with a few others tossed in) which they used to draft Kevin Jones, and draft Roy Williams. I am pleased with all of this at the moment.

Lions fans everywhere should rejoice.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Lions fans everywhere should rejoice.

I think we are. Let's face it, the last weekend or so in April has been the only thing Lions fans have been able to get excited about in the last three years.

[rkmsuf]

I you can get your boy Joey in gear the team has a shot to make some noise.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I you can get your boy Joey in gear the team has a shot to make some noise.

Two big question marks for the Lions:

1. Joey. This is the biggest. He'll be under a ton of pressure this year, but seems to be taking it pretty well at the moment. It's important to remember, however, that all of the "high powered" offensive weapons around him (Rogers, Williams, Jones, etc.) are rookies (or basically rookies). There will be some growing pains.

2. Just behind Joey, as concerns go, is the pass rush. The Lions are strong up the middle. Very strong, with Wilkinson and S. Rogers. But who will put pressure on the QB? Porcher has been on his last legs for years now. Hall is steady, but not spectacular. Kalimba Edwards is the guy who really has to come through. There will be a lot of pressure on the former second round pick. If he can't generate pressure on the QB, the Lions defense will struggle. They are weak in the safety spot and have very, very, very young linebackers.

Still, there are a ton of reasons to be excited this year and hopefully the Lions will get back to respectability. Winning a road game and going 8-8 would be a good start.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Two big question marks for the Lions:

1. Joey. This is the biggest. He'll be under a ton of pressure this year, but seems to be taking it pretty well at the moment. It's important to remember, however, that all of the "high powered" offensive weapons around him (Rogers, Williams, Jones, etc.) are rookies (or basically rookies). There will be some growing pains.

2. Just behind Joey, as concerns go, is the pass rush. The Lions are strong up the middle. Very strong, with Wilkinson and S. Rogers. But who will put pressure on the QB? Porcher has been on his last legs for years now. Hall is steady, but not spectacular. Kalimba Edwards is the guy who really has to come through. There will be a lot of pressure on the former second round pick. If he can't generate pressure on the QB, the Lions defense will struggle. They are weak in the safety spot and have very, very, very young linebackers.

Still, there are a ton of reasons to be excited this year and hopefully the Lions will get back to respectability. Winning a road game and going 8-8 would be a good start.

Just spank the Colts on Thanksgiving and I'll be happy.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Just spank the Colts on Thanksgiving and I'll be happy.

Thanksgiving Day tends to bring out the best in the Lions, so there is a chance that could happen. Also, Indy looks pretty weak at corner. If Williams and Rogers are both healthy and pan out like they should, they should be able to tear them up.

[Ksyrup]

If the Lions could score a TD where the receiver catches the ball, falls down, isn't touched, and then gets up and runs for a TD during that game, as a Lions and Broncos fan, that would be about all I could expect for the entire season.

[QuikSand]

I don't care for the attitude shown by KWII, either, let me be clear.

But is "stupid" really the right word for it? He's stupid to ask for so much money, he's stupid to be holding out like this, he's stupid to think of himself so highly... these comments seem awfully common.

I'm thinking "greedy bastard" or "selfish jerk" fit better, really. This might turn out to be a very effective and profitable angle for him in his position -- he does have a pretty good deal of leverage in this situation. If he executs this holdout and ends up getting a contract worth, say, $3 million more than he would have otherwise... is that necessarily "stupid?"

Yes, I realize there is more than just money involved -- respect of his teammates and coaches, support from the fans, preparedness for early performance, and so forth). All that makes a difference, but I have to think that all those bridges can be pretty easily rebuilt if he shows up and becomes the difference-maker he thinks he can.

[rkmsuf]

The spirit of stupid here is in the greedy bastard sense I believe. I doubt anyone is questioning his actual intelligence.

[QuikSand]

From the sounds of it, it seems like many people here think that his strategy will backfire financially. I judge that as unlikely.

[Crapshoot]

I have to ask- why does this bother people so much ? He has leverage to finance his career, and he's using it. Hell, if money's important to him, shouldnt he try and guarentree whatever he can ? Why does it affect my personal well being if Winslow wants what he believes the market can bear, irrespective of whether it can or not ?

I guess Ive never gotten the carping at atheletes for their salaries bit- I think its a capitalistic system at work- c'est la vie.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Aadik

I have to ask- why does this bother people so much ? He has leverage to finance his career, and he's using it. Hell, if money's important to him, shouldnt he try and guarentree whatever he can ? Why does it affect my personal well being if Winslow wants what he believes the market can bear, irrespective of whether it can or not ?

I guess Ive never gotten the carping at atheletes for their salaries bit- I think its a capitalistic system at work- c'est la vie.

holdouts never endear yourself with the fans intially. onced signed it all blows over.

I guess you have to factor it down to joe blow. Who wants to continually hear about a guy trying to get an extra 3 million on top of 15 million.

For a guy that already has a sketchy image it can't help.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

holdouts never endear yourself with the fans intially. onced signed it all blows over.

I guess you have to factor it down to joe blow. Who wants to continually hear about a guy trying to get an extra 3 million on top of 15 million.

For a guy that already has a sketchy image it can't help.

I understand that Rk- its just that Joe Blow is never going to see a dime of that money- if the player doesnt get it, the owner will. Why that makes a difference to him (or to anyone here) I dont get - is it jealousy ? For some reason, Joe Schmo has been conditioned to think that player salaries are the reason for high ticket prices, and so forth- which is pretty damn stupid. It doesnt make it right.

[Ksyrup]

I agree generally about the perception that players are greedy and owners somehow escape direct accountability for the same thing, but in this kind of situation, I think the issue has more to do with hurting the team by holding out. There's a line that's drawn between "get as much as you can" and "don't screw up our season you selfish bastard," and for a guy with a personality like Winslow's, it's pretty easy to see why people won't give him the benefit of the doubt. He's an arrogant jerk, and now he's hurting his team's chances of being competitive this year (at least, that's the perception, and his QB feels that way as well).

I think the money issue is a problem for a % of fans, but at this point, I think the team issue is a far greater factor.

[sterlingice]

Ksyrup just beat me to it, but it's basically: "We don't care how much the fuck you get paid so quit quibbling over that last five million bucks, more money than we will ever see in our lifetime, and get your ass on the damn field."

SI

[Crapshoot]

I agree that what both SI and KS said is the perception- Im simply questioning the validity of it. I cant tell you not to haggle for more pay if you work at Proctor and Gamble, on the basis that my toilet paper will get more expensive- that's between you and them, and none of my business. The same standards should apply- fundementally, football is a job and a business, and should be treated as such.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Aadik

I agree that what both SI and KS said is the perception- Im simply questioning the validity of it. I cant tell you not to haggle for more pay if you work at Proctor and Gamble, on the basis that my toilet paper will get more expensive- that's between you and them, and none of my business. The same standards should apply- fundementally, football is a job and a business, and should be treated as such.

Yes, but it's a matter of who's interests are we looking out for. The player is looking out for the player's. The owner is looking out for the owner's. And us fans are looking out for fans' interests. Our interests in this case happen to coincide with the owner's more than the player's. We don't care who gets more money, but the owner doesn't play while the player does so we want his arse down on the field. His interests are getting in the way of us rooting for the team because he's making the team worse by not being on the field. The holdout may help him, certainly, and maybe it's right for him that he gets market value, but we don't care because I doubt we care if he gets market value, we just want him playing.

SI

[Ksyrup]

Yes, but the perception isn't that the haggling is going to cost you, as the consumer, more - at least not in this instance. The problem is that the haggling is costing his team the chance to be competitive. It's got nothing to do with what it's costing the consumer in monetary terms.

[Ksyrup]

Touche', as SI beat me to it.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Touche', as SI beat me to it.

Well, I had to make up for earlier

SI

[GrantDawg]

The other issue here is that he has already been offered enough to be the highest paid TE in the league. That is well above his market value since there is no way he will be the best TE in the league (at least through more than half of his contract, beyond that it may be arguable). I can see why people would be angry over that. If they were low-balling him it would be one thing. He has been offered a way more than fair deal and he is still holding out.

[Noop]

Blame his father.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

The spirit of stupid here is in the greedy bastard sense I believe. I doubt anyone is questioning his actual intelligence.

Actually, given his Wonderlic score, plenty of people are questioning his actual intelligence...

[SunDevil]

I am sorry but if anyone saw that rant in the locker room last fall about how he is a solider and people trying to take out his legs is like someone trying to shot him, is just detached from reality.

Also all that preseason heisman hype last year and he scores a touchdown in the first game of the year and strikes a heisman pose in the endzone and then never scores again for the rest of the year. If these two scenarios do not show you who this guy really is, then I do not know what will.

This is America, and he can hold out, and ask for whatever amount of money he wants, but someone who thinks so highly of himself, should have the confidence that he will make his money sooner or later. Either in his rookie contract or in his second one. I completely understand the thought that injury can and will happen in the NFL, and it is the type of league that you should try to take the money and run. But trying to get paid more than the best TE in the league when you do not even know what the team locker room looks like is just insane. If he thinks he should get paid like a the best TE in the NFL and then he should prove it. Scoring one TE in your senior year in college means nothing in the NFL. Just my opinion.

[ISiddiqui]

You don't know if he saw the contract offer and you don't know if he cares if he saw it or not.

IIRC, the Postins would be violating their fiduciary responsibilies if they didn't allow Winslow to see the contract offer.

[Dawgfan1980]

And, for what it is worth, I am questioning his intelligence, and his perception of himself. If I were to say that I'm the best in my department at what I do, and holdout until I got paid not only the most in the department, but what I feel I'm worth (and I'm worth alot damnit) and the news reported on it, and if anyone cared about my job, then I would be stupid as well, and a selfish, arrogant asshole, who should be smacked by another coworker so my jaw could be wired shut. But, I'm not the best in my department, as I'm sitting here typing on this board and this thread about a dumbass who thinks he is a soldier, and who strikes Heisman poses (He can't carry Mario Bailey's jock, BTW). Take your money, get your endorsments (where the real money is) and smile that smile of yours WinSLOW.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I think we are. Let's face it, the last weekend or so in April has been the only thing Lions fans have been able to get excited about in the last three years.

Only the last 3 years? Ever since Barry Sanders left there hasn't been awhole lot to cheer for as a Lion fan.