Anybody Listening To Air America?

[Easy Mac]

because the Republicans bash those who are just outside of their fringe (such as those on the far, far right). Its pretty standard for each side.

[Sharpieman]

This channel is going to be off the air soon. And I don't think liberals care at all. I don't at least. And conservatives are right, theres no audience for a liberal talk show like this. I think one difference is that liberals don't need to listen to endless rhetoric. A big number of conservatives must be insecure. They need to listen to Rush to reaffirm their beliefs.

[Flasch186]

Isnt any dissenting opinion what democracy is all about. Both parties and all people interested in politics should be proud that such a network which while having some initial infancy problems will more than likely do fine.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Isnt any dissenting opinion what democracy is all about. Both parties and all people interested in politics should be proud that such a network which while having some initial infancy problems will more than likely do fine.

i'm not too sure it will do fine. it would be nice if "liberal" shows were around as long as "conservative" ones are, but this whole thing is more of an election year gimmick to me. Randy Rhodes is fine, she has done and will continue to do radio. The others are all first timers though, and may not like it or find out they are really suited to do daily radio. People like Janeane Garofalo and Al Franken and Chuck D, i think they are more in it until the election and then are out. Maybe Franken finds he likes it and stays if he has the ratings, but i tend to think most of this will be gone after the election.

[Flasch186]

Different thing. Yes, the pundits may change but I think the station will remain. I agree entirely on who might stay and what not but I think others will be very happy to fill the void.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=22815

Air America Off the Air in L.A, Chicago

April 14, 2004 Liberal talk-radio network Air America Radio has been pulled off of KBLA/Los Angeles and WNTD/Chicago due to a conflict over payment to the stations' owner, Multicultural Radio Broadcasting. Both stations started airing Spanish Talk programming today, instead of the Air America net, which was halted in mid-program earlier today. "They bounced a check today. It's a default. They have paid only a very small portion of what they owe us," Multicultural owner Arthur Liu told the Chicago Tribune, which also reports the amount Multicultural is owed is more than $1 million, which includes a security deposit that was supposed to have been prepaid by Air America prior to launch. "They've been saying, 'We're going to get you the money' for the past two months," Liu said. "They're not honoring our agreement." Air America Chairman Evan Cohen released a statement about being yanked from their second and third largest affiliates. "Air America Radio is temporarily unable to be heard on WNTD in Chicago and KBLA in Los Angeles, but Chicago and Los Angeles listeners can still hear our broadcast on the web at airamericaradio.com and on XM Satellite Radio (channel 167). MultiCultural Radio Broadcasting's conduct in this matter has been disgraceful. To shut off a broadcast that listeners rely on without warning and in the middle of discussions is the height of irresponsibility and a slap in the face of the media industry. In addition, it is a clear violation of their contractual obligations, and we are seeking legal remedies against them in court." The fledgling political radio network immediately filed a complaint with the New York State Supreme Court, alleging a breach of contract by Multicultural. Air America also asked for an injunction that would require Multicultural to restore the network on both stations.

[Ksyrup]

Funny, I was just coming here to post something along the same lines, from another site:

Here's a message I got today from a radio friend of mine:

well....sounds like the ship may be going down....

the stations they were airing on in the LA and Chicago markets (neither of which is REALLY in those markets....time to check with the lying liars...)have both pulled them off the air. these are timebrokered stations where people pay for the airtime...apparently air america's checks have bounced...and they are gone.

now they are only on 7 stations...all of them very small with pretty bad signals.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Actually...courtesey of their website (Air America)

"After just two weeks on the air, Air America Radio, the fledgling liberal talk-radio network featuring Al Franken, Janeane Garofalo, and that really loud woman from Florida, appears to have encountered serious cash-flow problems.

Stop the presses!!! There’s nothing more exciting than half a story from a third hand source!!!!

Insiders tell SLUDGE, that the reason the network was pulled off the air this morning in Chicago and Los Angeles, the network's second- and third-largest markets, was because, the owner of both stations, Arthur Liu of Multicultural Broadcasting, said, the network bounced a check and owes him more than $1 million! The run-on sentence, tortured grammar and the exclamation point clearly means it’s true!!

Only it isn’t.

Normally we’d let this go because “habitual liars” like Drudge are laughable, and ridicule is our business.

But Arthur Liu --- not funny. He lied to us, he ripped us off and now we’re chasing him down with a pipe wrench. It’s a metaphor.

Here’s what really happened:

This Liu-ser was ripping off our boss Evan Cohen big time (he can’t do that, that’s our job). Evan found out about it and he stopped payment on a check to keep Liu-cifer from ripping him off even more. You can touch Evan for the occasional meal or drinks but a million bucks is crossing the line. And if we ever get low on cash, we can always call Barbra Streisand. Or any of the Baldwins. Except Stephen.

So we got screwed, Liu’d, and tattooed. How Liu can you get? In Liu of payment. Liu’d and lascivious behavior. These write themselves. What we’re getting at is that we hate him.

So now everyone’s saying we’re going down the dumper in Chicago and Los Angeles, but what they don’t tell you is that we’re still on in Portland. And we OWN Portland. And let’s not forget Riverside and Plattsburgh. And New
York. And streaming on the internet. And XM. And Sirius. Actually we’re fine.

So cool your jets. Air America Radio isn’t dead, we’re in court and we’re going to slam Liu’s head in a car door. Another metaphor. We hope to be back on the air tomorrow or the next day in those markets.

In the meantime, why don’t you give Arthur a call at (xxx) xxx-xxxx.

Arthur Liu, I wouldn’t show your face around here.

Or Riverside. Or Plattsburgh.

DEVELOPING……"

[WussGawd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

http://fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=22815

The story from Air America's perspective is quite different. They had a lawyer this afternoon stating that the dispute that Multicultural, whose owner, Arthur Liu is a big Dubya and PAC contributor, btw, basically sold the airtime that Air America rented from them in February and March on the LA affiliate (not Chicago), and turned around and sold it someone else...a breach of contract. Air America caught wind of it, asked for a settlement, Liu refused, so Air America placed a stop payment on the checks, and Liu pulled the plug in both LA & Chicago.

Again, time will tell, but there is a court hearing on the issue tomorrow. If the facts as presented by Air America are accurate, Multicultural is pretty clearly in breach of contract.

FWIW, Air America also gets the SF market later this month, from what I understand, so I don't think they're going away soon.

[WussGawd]

dola...

Air America is apparently adding more affiliates:

http://www.airamericaradio.com/main....ase&htmlId=717

Sacramento; Portland, Maine; Colorado Springs; West Palm Beach; Key West; Plattsburgh, NY; & Burlington, VT to go with San Francisco, San Jose, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Inland Empire, CA; Portland, OR; New York, and Chicago and LA once this mess is straightened out.

They've also added Sirius to go alongside their programming on XM.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

dola...Air America is apparently adding more affiliates:

And even with those, they still haven't reached even the number of affiliates I had for a couple of syndicated feature programs I've had over the years. And with stronger signals on better stations in bigger markets (overall).

Don't get me wrong, my stuff was short & strictly bought-and-paid for stuff, so I'm sure not blowing my own horn. I'm just pointing out that getting the sort of affiliates they've managed so far isn't exactly anything to crow about, at least not in broadcast circles.

The majority of stations airing the show so far have been ones that were so far in the crapper in terms of ratings that they could have vanished completely & hardly anyone at all would have noticed. They've been stations with nothing to lose & potentially quite a bit to gain. The story on all of them will start being told when the new ratings come out in another month or so, and will become much clearer 3-4 months down the road.

What I expect is a cume (persons listening at any time during the quarter) spike early on, say the first 2-3 weeks after the shows debut, with a relatively low avg quarter-hour (avg persons listening at a given moment ... followed by a slide right back into ratings oblivion.

Time will tell, but so far, this has been almost exactly what I expected (actually, a little less than I expected).

[WussGawd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And even with those, they still haven't reached even the number of affiliates I had for a couple of syndicated feature programs I've had over the years. And with stronger signals on better stations in bigger markets (overall).

Don't get me wrong, my stuff was short & strictly bought-and-paid for stuff, so I'm sure not blowing my own horn. I'm just pointing out that getting the sort of affiliates they've managed so far isn't exactly anything to crow about, at least not in broadcast circles.

The majority of stations airing the show so far have been ones that were so far in the crapper in terms of ratings that they could have vanished completely & hardly anyone at all would have noticed. They've been stations with nothing to lose & potentially quite a bit to gain. The story on all of them will start being told when the new ratings come out in another month or so, and will become much clearer 3-4 months down the road.

What I expect is a cume (persons listening at any time during the quarter) spike early on, say the first 2-3 weeks after the shows debut, with a relatively low avg quarter-hour (avg persons listening at a given moment ... followed by a slide right back into ratings oblivion.

Time will tell, but so far, this has been almost exactly what I expected (actually, a little less than I expected).

Time will tell. I don't have as negative a view of it. I think there is room on the radio dial for liberal talk, with the right kind of hosts. I don't believe the mainly right-wing radio hype that right-wing talk show hosts a la Rush, Cam, Liddy, Hannity, et al, peddle that a left leaning radio host can't make it.

Whether Air America, and these particular hosts will make it, I don't know. Will there be others to try? There already are. A guy named Ed Schultz out of North Dakota has already got 23 affiliates in about 3 months, there are others out there locally across the country, if Air America or Schultz get a sniff of success that might see a stab sometime at syndication.

Probably the best of Air America's hosts, Randi Rhoades, hosted a liberal talk program that regularly outdrew Limbaugh in South Florida for years.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

A guy named Ed Schultz out of North Dakota has already got 23 affiliates in about 3 months, there are others out there locally across the country, if Air America or Schultz get a sniff of success that might see a stab sometime at syndication.

Here's an Ed Schultz list (I'd heard of him, but hadn't seen an affiliates list) plucked from flagship station KFGO. (Oddly, Schultz's own website doesn't list the affilates, only provides an email request form for you to find one in your area.

KTOX / Needles CA
KNDK / Langdon ND
KBSR / Billings MT
KHDN / Hardin MT
KQLX / Lisbon ND
KQDJ / Jamestown ND, Re-launch 3/22
WAAM / Ann ARBOR MI
WSGW / Saginaw MI
KUGN / Eugene OR
WATA / Boone, NC
KBUR / Burlington IA
WTDY/Madison WI, Launch 3/22
KTKK/Salt Lake City UT
WRVC/Huntington,WVa Launch 4/5
WGAT/Gate City,VA Launch 4/5
WCHL/Chapel Hill,NC Launch 3/15

Sorry WG, sorry Ed Schultz, but that is not a list that's going to impress anybody. He could be #1 by a wide margin in all those markets & still not have enough listeners to make a ripple.

Time will tell of course, what the future of liberal talk will be. So far, I've seen nothing that indicates it has any significant future at all. A quote in tomorrow's edition of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution sums it up pretty well for me ""There does have to be a niche," said Robert Denton Jr., professor of communications at Virginia Tech. "One of the things that early talk radio did was provide an outlet for listeners whose views were in the minority.

"But if you take NPR, some would argue also ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, the liberal voice is already dominant. The thirst is already being quenched. So, if you're not unique and you don't fill a niche, then it does say there may not be at this point a large enough market for a more slanted kind of perspective."

[WussGawd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Here's an Ed Schultz list (I'd heard of him, but hadn't seen an affiliates list) plucked from flagship station KFGO. (Oddly, Schultz's own website doesn't list the affilates, only provides an email request form for you to find one in your area.

KTOX / Needles CA
KNDK / Langdon ND
KBSR / Billings MT
KHDN / Hardin MT
KQLX / Lisbon ND
KQDJ / Jamestown ND, Re-launch 3/22
WAAM / Ann ARBOR MI
WSGW / Saginaw MI
KUGN / Eugene OR
WATA / Boone, NC
KBUR / Burlington IA
WTDY/Madison WI, Launch 3/22
KTKK/Salt Lake City UT
WRVC/Huntington,WVa Launch 4/5
WGAT/Gate City,VA Launch 4/5
WCHL/Chapel Hill,NC Launch 3/15

Sorry WG, sorry Ed Schultz, but that is not a list that's going to impress anybody. He could be #1 by a wide margin in all those markets & still not have enough listeners to make a ripple.

Time will tell of course, what the future of liberal talk will be. So far, I've seen nothing that indicates it has any significant future at all. A quote in tomorrow's edition of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution sums it up pretty well for me ""There does have to be a niche," said Robert Denton Jr., professor of communications at Virginia Tech. "One of the things that early talk radio did was provide an outlet for listeners whose views were in the minority.

"But if you take NPR, some would argue also ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, the liberal voice is already dominant. The thirst is already being quenched. So, if you're not unique and you don't fill a niche, then it does say there may not be at this point a large enough market for a more slanted kind of perspective."

I question whether any of the outlets you mention are truly liberal in their outlook at this point. Moderate? Yes. Inept? Certainly.

Sorry, but refusing to toe the Bush party line does not automatically make someone a liberal...my parents are Republicans, and they'd probably vote for Nader this time around before they'd vote for Bush.

[WussGawd]

dola.

While I can't deny your data, I'm not sure you can leap to the conclusions you do (again, time is going to make one of us a genius, right now, it's hard to tell which one). The smallest journey is begun with one small step. Limbaugh started out of some smaller outlets in the Midwest, IIRC back in the dark ages.

[timmynausea]

Franken's show is hilarious. It's weird to hear a talk radio show that actually has entertainment value. Now the choice becomes - Do I want to hear Rush be arrogant or Al Franken be really funny? Not that hard.

[robbgmaier]

If i get a fancy pair of headphones.....and listen to rush in the left ear, and al in the right ear....wait a minute, i guess it would be the other way around....but anyway, how long would it take until my brain turned into a burbling caldrun of goop and start leaking out my ears?

[Butter]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

I question whether any of the outlets you mention are truly liberal in their outlook at this point. Moderate? Yes. Inept? Certainly.

To some people, "liberal" means any outlet that questions Bush's motives or reports any story with gay people in a favorable light.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

This channel is going to be off the air soon. And I don't think liberals care at all. I don't at least. And conservatives are right, theres no audience for a liberal talk show like this. I think one difference is that liberals don't need to listen to endless rhetoric. A big number of conservatives must be insecure. They need to listen to Rush to reaffirm their beliefs.

Exactly.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

To some people, "liberal" means any outlet that questions Bush's motives or reports any story with gay people in a favorable light.

Y'know, I wouldn't really argue with that too much, probably only highlight the use of the word "motives" a little bit for clarification. I wouldn't say you don't have to be liberal to question an action perhaps, but when you get into motives, that does seem to be something that comes more from the left than the middle AFAIC.

[WussGawd]

The biggest thing that bothers me about the labeling of CNN, ABC, NBC & CBS as liberal is that frankly, outside of some of the talk shows on CNN, these shows don't really talk politics on any useful level other than the Kerry/Bush speech sound bite du juor (usually with said sound bite completely out of any context).

There was a point yesterday when I trolled CNN's home page that literally 6 of the 8 "top stories" listed at the top were entertainment related. In fact, if I see one more Lacey Peterson lead on CNN, I may have to fly down to Atlanta and go postal on their HQ. CNN...All Lacey, All the Time...

Frankly, the line between ABC, NBC, & CBS in particular vs. Entertainment Tonight and Access Hollywood is so blurred I'm not sure which is which.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by robbgmaier

If i get a fancy pair of headphones.....and listen to rush in the left ear, and al in the right ear....wait a minute, i guess it would be the other way around....but anyway, how long would it take until my brain turned into a burbling caldrun of goop and start leaking out my ears?

Of course, it's possible that being exposed to both the left and the right viewpoint rather than the one you happen to like would result in a more-rounded worldview and a little bit better independent thinking.

Nah. Never mind.

You side sucks!

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Y'know, I wouldn't really argue with that too much, probably only highlight the use of the word "motives" a little bit for clarification. I wouldn't say you don't have to be liberal to question an action perhaps, but when you get into motives, that does seem to be something that comes more from the left than the middle AFAIC.

Jon, I don't like your politics much, but your honesty is refreshing and I appreciate it very much, and I mean that honestly. Not many people are as upfront as you are about where they're coming from, even when it's unpopular. Even on these boards, there's a lot of backpedaling/bridge-building sometimes, but not from you. I may not like what you have to say, but the way you say it is almost always interesting.

That being said, I don't think that questioning any sitting president's motives should be a strictly leftist ideal. The status quo must always be questioned and challenged, lest it fall into apathy and mediocrity (where our gov't has been stuck for eons). Whether or not that's a news organization's job is another thing altogether.

[WussGawd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Y'know, I wouldn't really argue with that too much, probably only highlight the use of the word "motives" a little bit for clarification. I wouldn't say you don't have to be liberal to question an action perhaps, but when you get into motives, that does seem to be something that comes more from the left than the middle AFAIC.

Hmm. It seems to me that the Republicans spent $66 Million trying to determine Clinton's motives.

Sorry, JiMG, but this is a pretty ridiculous sounding statement. And I can assure you that if Gore had won the election, and 9/11 had happened, the Republicans would be questioning his motives heavily, from a thousand right-wing talk shows, and on the House and Senate floor.

[Butter]

Of course they would. That's politics in America. One side always thinks the other side should be the first to stop politicizing every issue. But it won't happen. I'm starting to wonder what it will take for any real public discourse on ANY issue to happen, instead of this constant sniping.

[Butter]

Dola

One thing that rankles me, from either side (and me being an ideological Democrat, it bothers me there as well) and their followers is the idea that theirs is the Side of Truth and Ultimate Correctness. No side can claim to have all the right answers. But don't tell them that lest it spark a multi-page thread about gay marriage.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Jon, I don't like your politics much, but your honesty is refreshing and I appreciate it very much, and I mean that honestly. Not many people are as upfront as you are about where they're coming from, even when it's unpopular. Even on these boards, there's a lot of backpedaling/bridge-building sometimes, but not from you. I may not like what you have to say, but the way you say it is almost always interesting.

That being said, I don't think that questioning any sitting president's motives should be a strictly leftist ideal. The status quo must always be questioned and challenged, lest it fall into apathy and mediocrity (where our gov't has been stuck for eons). Whether or not that's a news organization's job is another thing altogether.

Thank you, I appreciate that. It's the one thing I try to be consistent about above all else, just be honest. From there, I'll take whatever way the chips fall.

As far as the questioning of motives, I think there may have been something lost in translation along the way. I was referring to the current President & questions about his motive, not meaning Presidents & questions about motives in general. My bad, just chalk it up to me forgetting that reading my mind isn't an absolute science

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

Hmm. It seems to me that the Republicans spent $66 Million trying to determine Clinton's motives.

Sorry, JiMG, but this is a pretty ridiculous sounding statement. And I can assure you that if Gore had won the election, and 9/11 had happened, the Republicans would be questioning his motives heavily, from a thousand right-wing talk shows, and on the House and Senate floor.

As I mentioned to B_of_ 69 a post ago

As far as the questioning of motives, I think there may have been something lost in translation along the way. I was referring to the current President & questions about his motive, not meaning Presidents & questions about motives in general. My bad, just chalk it up to me forgetting that reading my mind isn't an absolute science

I don't particularly disagree with your take on the roles being reversed for President's past or your speculation on the alternate scenario either.

Personally, just FWIW, I wasn't particularly a big fan of the neverending hearings that surrounded Clinton either.

I'm glad he's fading into memory, I think he was a piss-poor President on the whole, I just didn't think the hearings were ever going to amount to much, certainly more smoke & noise than light and/or heat.

[JonInMiddleGA]

From Friday March 7 ...
According to the Chicago Tribune, Air America Radio co-founder and Chairman Evan Cohen and Vice Chairman and investor Rex Sorensen have both exited the company. The newspaper also reports that the fledgling liberal Talk network failed to make its scheduled payroll on Wednesday. In late April, network co-founder and CEO Mark Walsh resigned, while programming head Dave Logan also left, but continues as an advisor.

[Airhog]

Im a liberal and Proud of it!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Airhog

Im a liberal and Proud of it!

I find the latter far sadder than the former

[JonInMiddleGA]

from http://fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=24858 (dated May 12,2004)

Air America, Progress Media'sliberal talker, has officially shut the doors on its Los Angeles and Chicago sales offices.

[Franklinnoble]

Air America was doomed before it got started.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Air America was doomed before it got started.

Happily, failed ideas often are.

[WussGawd]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Air America was doomed before it got started.

File this one up to just a bit of wishful thinking.

http://www.guampdn.com/news/stories/...ws/397785.html

[JonInMiddleGA]

Y'know, this is getting to be like beating a dead horse ... but it's still kinda fun.

from radio-online.comAccording to the New York Daily News, General Motors ads heard on Air America affiliate WLIB-AM/New York had been airing "wrongfully" from an earlier deal when the station carried a fulltime Carribean format. Ryndee Carney, GM's manager of Marketing Communications, told the newspaper that the station was ordered to "cease and desist" on Tuesday (5-11). She added, "GM will not advertise on any Air America affiliates." The paper speculates that it's not over the network's liberal slant, but more so over its offensive humor. (05-12-04)

I gotta hand to it the folks at WLIB though ... that's an old & rather obscure radio trick that I didn't realize anybody still remembered -- you air a respectable advertiser for free, hoping to influence other paying advertisers by adding false legitimacy.

[WussGawd]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5125267

Noticed you omitted the rest of the article on the closing of sales offices. To me the most interesting part of the whole article is what I've contended to be the biggest problem with their business plan, which is that it will be very hard to find stations willing to take the whole lineup. Frankly, some of the shows are better than others.

I personally think Franken's show is great, and Randi Rhoades' isn't bad. I have very little time for some of the others, because frankly, they're just not all that entertaining radio. I geniunely expect some of them to survive, and some to fail.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

The biggest thing that bothers me about the labeling of CNN, ABC, NBC & CBS as liberal is that frankly, outside of some of the talk shows on CNN, these shows don't really talk politics on any useful level other than the Kerry/Bush speech sound bite du juor (usually with said sound bite completely out of any context).

Hint and a half: When the far left says it's fair and unbiased, it's not.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

From Friday March 7 ...
According to the Chicago Tribune, Air America Radio co-founder and Chairman Evan Cohen and Vice Chairman and investor Rex Sorensen have both exited the company. The newspaper also reports that the fledgling liberal Talk network failed to make its scheduled payroll on Wednesday. In late April, network co-founder and CEO Mark Walsh resigned, while programming head Dave Logan also left, but continues as an advisor.

this is like a bad MP league that starts out with a lot of fanfare, then evenutally owners start pulliing out one by one and you're left w/ like a handful of owners who don't want to just the damn thing die, but little do they know the end is near anyway. funny.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

Hmm. It seems to me that the Republicans spent $66 Million trying to determine Clinton's motives.

If it's any consolation, the Dems probably spent about as much trying to make something stick to Reagan during his presidency. He was easily the Republican most hated by libs until W came along. In politics, payback is a bitch.

Sorry, JiMG, but this is a pretty ridiculous sounding statement. And I can assure you that if Gore had won the election, and 9/11 had happened, the Republicans would be questioning his motives heavily, from a thousand right-wing talk shows, and on the House and Senate floor.

Even if Gore's recount scheme had worked and he was POTUS, 9/11 would still have happened. Frankly, I think things would have gone much worse for us. Based on how Clinton used the military during his presidency, I don't think Gore would have moved forward militarily like Bush did in Afghanistan. I've gotten the impression through the years, that liberals, especially the 60's hippie, love, sex & rock-n-roll breed that now find themselves in control of things, consider the United States the "great imperialist satan," and that when bad things happen to us, well, we probably had it coming because we exploit the world the rest of the time, anyway. I think that's why most big-shot libbies hang out in France...the French are kindred spirits. By and large, most liberals are anti-war, which makes them anti-military. I love how libs say they support the troops, but not the war. Come on, use a little logic. What do soldiers do? They kill people and destroy things. It's a little like saying you support O.J. Simpson, but not what he did (oh, wait, he was found not guilty...never mind). The Clinton team considered counter-terrorism more of a legal issue than a military one. So I think the Gore administration's approach to 9/11 would have been intense "negotiations" with the Taliban about extraditing key Al Qaeda members responsible for the attack to U.S. custody. I have my doubts that Gore would ever have invaded "a sovereign nation," a concept I believe is abhorrent to most liberals -- why, that would be an act of war by imperialist America (and yes, I do recall hearing several libs make that very same argument after the Afghan operation began). At best, I can see Gore zinging a few cruise missiles at a Al Qaeda training sites or perhaps a covert mission by a small unit to capture or kill key Al Qaeda members, but that is about it.

Second, I think there might have been at least one, maybe two, more successful attacks on American soil following 9/11. I doubt Gore would have been so quick to sign on to all the Patriot Act type legislation that Bush approved in the months following 9/11. I remember several libs were critical of the Republican anti-terrorism legislation once the initial "patriotic fervor" had faded a little from the public. But then again, knowing how the libs love "invasive" big government, perhaps Gore would have signed aboard. If the legislation came from a Democrat-controlled Congress, I'm positive he would, because the Dems would never abuse such police state powers like evil Republicans would.

After saying all this, do I think Bush has done it right? No. I think we should have finished the job in Afghanistan before we even thought about Iraq. Ultimately, I believe Saddam had to go (I just wish W's daddy had done the job right back in the early 90s). I think we should have gone into Iraq with a much larger force, especially since we planned on occupying the place until we handed over control to the new Iraqi government. Personally, I got a little tired of hearing about how humane we were trying to be -- thanks for all those idiotic type warm and fuzzy questions you sh*t-for-brains reporters. Note to future generals -- no more daily TV press conferences. Of course, that's Monday-morning quarterbacking on my part on the latter, and speculation on the former.

[Buddy Grant]

IMO most of the Air America shows I've heard are as crappy as Rush, O'Reilly, and Hannity, and for the same reasons. One sided viewpoints lightly disguised as reasonable thought intended for indoctrinated masses of, let's face it, those that wish to suspend their thought processes. The O'Franken Factor appears to be the best of the bunch, with Randi Rhodes (wasn't he the late Ozzy guitarist?!?), and the show with the SNL woman being the worst (Majority Report is what that show is called).

I will probably listen to the O'Franken Factor a few more times before I give up on it since I think they want to at least seem more reasonable and also they are the least angry of the hosts. My fave part of that show is when Al's childhood buddy calls up and they argue about Rush Limbaugh (Frankens buddy is a hardcore Rush fan, and not the 2112 Rush either). At times it serves as an example of how folks from opposite sides of the political spectrum can get along well, and that gives me some hope for the world anyway. O'Reilly does this too, gets liberal guests on occasionally, and even if he is not always the most fair with them (), I think it is bigger of him to have them on.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

File this one up to just a bit of wishful thinking.

http://www.guampdn.com/news/stories/...ws/397785.html

From the article:

Guam businessman Rex Sorensen resigned from liberal network Air America Radio last week because a new investor group joined the company.

"Heck, I don't even know what to call them. Guamites? The Guamish? Guami Bears?"

Don't mind me, I just wanted to work in a quote from the Critic.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5125267

Noticed you omitted the rest of the article on the closing of sales offices.

Sorry, I omitted nothing. I cut-and-pasted exactly what I had on it, which was a blurb from a trade paper. The Reuters article you link hadn't even been posted (by them) until a couple of hours after the one I read.

If r-o omitted something, that's on them, I just posted what I had.

But thanks for playing.

[WussGawd]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Hint and a half: When the far left says it's fair and unbiased, it's not.

Sorry, it's only Voelkischer Beobacht, er, Fox News that uses the pompous "Fair and Balanced" moniker.

[WussGawd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry, I omitted nothing. I cut-and-pasted exactly what I had on it, which was a blurb from a trade paper. The Reuters article you link hadn't even been posted (by them) until a couple of hours after the one I read.

If r-o omitted something, that's on them, I just posted what I had.

But thanks for playing.

I stand corrected. Different source.

[WussGawd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Y'know, this is getting to be like beating a dead horse ... but it's still kinda fun.

from radio-online.comAccording to the New York Daily News, General Motors ads heard on Air America affiliate WLIB-AM/New York had been airing "wrongfully" from an earlier deal when the station carried a fulltime Carribean format. Ryndee Carney, GM's manager of Marketing Communications, told the newspaper that the station was ordered to "cease and desist" on Tuesday (5-11). She added, "GM will not advertise on any Air America affiliates." The paper speculates that it's not over the network's liberal slant, but more so over its offensive humor. (05-12-04)

I gotta hand to it the folks at WLIB though ... that's an old & rather obscure radio trick that I didn't realize anybody still remembered -- you air a respectable advertiser for free, hoping to influence other paying advertisers by adding false legitimacy.

Hate to tell you this but this is old news. GM pulled their ads a good month ago.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

Hate to tell you this but this is old news. GM pulled their ads a good month ago.

Which would make sense, in light of the fact that a GM spokeswoman used the words "cease & desist" when talking to a reporter. If I pulled my ads a good month ago & yet they were still running, that's the route a lot of businesses might have to take to get them stopped.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

Sorry, it's only Voelkischer Beobacht, er, Fox News that uses the pompous "Fair and Balanced" moniker.

Yes, I keep forgetting that FoxNews is a bunch of Nazi's because they support the USA's efforts on most issues. Because afterall, the USA is like Nazi Germany.

Do you just make this stuff up or do you read moveon.org too much?

[WussGawd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which would make sense, in light of the fact that a GM spokeswoman used the words "cease & desist" when talking to a reporter. If I pulled my ads a good month ago & yet they were still running, that's the route a lot of businesses might have to take to get them stopped.

Nice spin. The truth is I'm a regular listener, and the ads were pulled a month ago. As in, I haven't heard a GM ad since. I've heard ads for other companies products, not GM.

[WussGawd]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Yes, I keep forgetting that FoxNews is a bunch of Nazi's because they support the right wing's efforts on most issues. Because afterall, the USA is like Nazi Germany.

Fixed this for you.

Hate to tell you this, but conservatives do not have an exclusive right to speak for America.