OT - FOFC poker update

[Radii]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
We had a rules question come up:

When two players tie with a flush, do they split the pot if they have the same high card (i.e. if the ace is on the table), or do you count down high cards until someone has a higher card?

You count it all the way down. For example, in hold 'em, the board is:

As Ks Qs 4h 2h

Ts 2s

beats

9s 8s, the ten beats the 9.



In my "poker update" news, I have been playing online less, and when I have been able to get online, I have been very, very inconsistant. I have floundered between no limit holdem, omaha hi/lo, 7 stud hi/lo and some limit holdem, basically breaking even. I decided to start with $1/$2 holdem, which best suits my current online bankroll, and stick with it and just play solid for awhile. Well, I got off to a horrible start, with losses in my first 3 sessions, and while I don't think I was necessarily playing badly, I am backing down and going to go spend some time with turbo texas hold 'em to build my confidence back up, and then head back to the $1/$2 tables.

[Radii]

I do have a question about one hand that concerns me, my biggest problem is that my "profile" leans more towards a rock than anything else. I am sufficiently tight, but I fear that I am often not agressive enough.

I am dealt Ac Jd in the big blind. 4 limpers, including the small blind, I check(should I have raised? I doubt it... asking anyway).

Flop: Qs 6d Ad

I have top pair jack kicker.

Small blind checks, I bet $1, 2 call, 1 folds, then the small blind raises(a check-raise!). I haven't been at the table long, I don't have a read on the guy. Should I assume I'm beat and fold right here? Or should I just call and go into check-and-call mode? Should I re-raise?

I re-raised, and he re-raised me again and capped it.

The turn is another 6, and I do at this point drop into check and call mode, the river a 2, and I lose to A6, a full house 6s over aces.

How would others have played this hand? I think folding to the check-raise might have been the proper play here on the flop, but I want other opinions...

[robbgmaier]

well, unless you are playing with someone who likes to check raise for fun, you will become a millionaire if you can learn to fold those hands. A check raise there and you are drawing to at best three outs.

let me know when you learn how, then teach me.

Even if you have the best hand, they may be on a semi bluff, which will hit often enough to not make it worth your while to check them down. At least, that's what little I know. Of course, I've been on a hold 'em hiatus for over a week, prefering omaha hi/lo because it usually doesn't make me want to hurl my computer across the room.

[QuikSand]

There are three levels of players who checkraise, I think:

-amateurs who get overexcited and slowplay too many hands, because it seems like that's sophisticated poker

-solid players who correctly read the table and recognize an opportunity to gain another bet (plus a wide range of players whose play approximates this)

-extremely solid players who read an opponent well enough to use a check-raise as a bluff tactic, expecting the opposition to drop


I basically discount the third group, unless I'm very confident I have a correct read on the player (and that he reads me, a player who will lay dwn good hands, a bit too well). In your case, Radii, I think you should, too.

So, the only hope you really have is that you're up against a nitwit who is inadvertently check-raising with something less than your top pair with decent kicker. Or to find one of three jacks, and hope he doesn't already have a set (which is the easiest trigger for many checkraisers). Not a good spot.

I think I'd lay that one down.

[robbgmaier]

just to babble on. with a set, wouldn't you just call here, and then check raise the turn?

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by robbgmaier
just to babble on. with a set, wouldn't you just call here, and then check raise the turn?

Absolutely. But you have to allow for the possibility that the other actor here is not sharp enough to handle that... why check-raise here under any circumstance, really?

But under any circumstances, it's very tough to put him on anything less than aces up, I think.

[Ksyrup]

BTW, I just wanted to cut in and tell you guys that while I have no clue what you're talking about, I watched a fair amount of the various poker tournaments that were covered on ESPN and some of the other channels over the Thanksgiving weekend. And, although I've never played poker in my life, I have to admit that I was fascinated by it. I was shocked at all of the tournaments being televised, and then saw that Bravo (I think) is running a celebrity poker show as well.

Then, in Sporting News, I read that poker beat baseball in TV ratings during August and September, and that the new camera angle that shows the viewer what cards the players are holding had "revolutionized" poker television and it was becoming a hot commodity on TV.

Is anyone else noticing the televised poker phenomenon?

[RPI-Fan]

Fox Sports NY showed a 6-hour long tournament Thanksgiving day. It's definitely getting lots of airtime - not sure how long it'll last though (I'm assuming not very long).

[rkmsuf]

I was disappointed in the Bravo celebritey poker. No offense but it seemed like I was watching Queer Eye for the Poker Guy...

Kevin Pollack and that hat have got to go...

[Ksyrup]

sssssssssssst. Brian!

I love Kevin Pollack. Anyone who can do a dead-on impersonation of Columbo - wandering eye and all - deserves high praise.

[Turd Ferguson]

Anyone have any suggestions for what book to read to get a grasp on Texas Hold'Em???




Homer: Gorilla, Gorilla, Gorilla for sale!

[Chubby]

i like phil hellmuth jr's book

[AnalBumCover]

lee jones' Winning Low Limit Poker

[primelord]

I agree that lee jones' book is a good place to start. The Theory ok Poker is also excellent although not Hold 'Em specific. After those and once you feel you have a good understanding of the basic concepts I would move on to Hold 'Em Poker for Advanced Players by Sklansky and Malmuth.

[Radii]

I was pretty sure I should have folded, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overreacting because I lost the hand.

Also, I think it would be a mistake to slowplay a set in that hand, with 5 people in the hand, in low limit poker, I generally agree with lee jones on flopping sets. Sets get cracked way too often by people drawing to straights and flushes. You have to bet them hard and try to get chasers out of the pot, and at a bare minimum, you have to be 100% sure there is no chance of them getting a free card, if someone wants to draw to an inside straight, that's awesome, but make them pay!

Thanks for the tips and the re-affirmation that I should ahve folded

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Turd Ferguson
Anyone have any suggestions for what book to read to get a grasp on Texas Hold'Em???

I like Lee Jones's book, too, but I think there might be broader application to Lou Krieger's More Hold 'Em Excellence.

[robbgmaier]

another bit of psycho-babble

people are learning en-mass about check-raises, and slow-playing is way cooler than just betting out. I think it's an excellent opportunity to make more money in a game, because now instead of just calling someone down who bets out, because you've seen them bet with all sorts of useless drivel, now they are check raising, and you can get out for just the one small bet on the flop (or just one big bet on the turn if that is when they catch) and save money on hands that you were going to lose.

but that could just be the xanax talking

[Vegas Vic]

Originally posted by Radii
I am dealt Ac Jd in the big blind. 4 limpers, including the small blind, I check(should I have raised? I doubt it... asking anyway).

Flop: Qs 6d Ad

I have top pair jack kicker.

Small blind checks, I bet $1, 2 call, 1 folds, then the small blind raises(a check-raise!). I haven't been at the table long, I don't have a read on the guy. Should I assume I'm beat and fold right here? Or should I just call and go into check-and-call mode? Should I re-raise?

I re-raised, and he re-raised me again and capped it.

The turn is another 6, and I do at this point drop into check and call mode, the river a 2, and I lose to A6, a full house 6s over aces.

How would others have played this hand? I think folding to the check-raise might have been the proper play here on the flop, but I want other opinions...

You made the correct decision to limp pre-flop. AJo in the big blind against 4 limpers is a decent (not great) holding, and you're out of position. I like your 3-bet post flop. There are plenty of players (especially at low limit) who will raise (or checkraise) flush draws. So, he could have something like JdTd, and he's semi-bluffing you, with a possibility that he can win the pot right there. You are defining your hand (top pair) with the 3-bet. When he comes back and caps, you can probably put him on A6 or 66. If he had a bigger ace (i.e. AK), he probably would have raised before the flop.

This is a tough laydown. If I was playing 15/30, I would have probably layed it down. At lower limits, it's a tougher decision due to the nature of the way some of these maniacs play.