Who's worse? Abortion doctor or abortion doctor killer?

[RainMaker]

The hardcore pro-lifers aren't really against abortion, they are just for being able to tell other people what to do.

The 50/50 thing is also a little tough to decipher. I mean I'm against abortion so if someone asked me if I'm pro-life, I'd say yes. But I'm not for making it illegal.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Ah, now we're getting somewhere.............

Where are we getting?

A dude murdered someone. That = illegal.

A guy performs abortions. That is not illegal.

/thread iyam.

I just wanted to point out that the people like this nut job are terrorists as well, but no one seems to have the balls to refer to them as such and I can't figure out why.

[lungs]

The biggest disappointment is the thread title.

Who's worse?

It should read Who worse? or What worse?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Where are we getting?

A dude murdered someone. That = illegal.

A guy performs abortions. That is not illegal.

/thread iyam.

I just wanted to point out that the people like this nut job are terrorists as well, but no one seems to have the balls to refer to them as such and I can't figure out why.

Ummm I did. And I insinuated that the full power of the Patriot Act ought to be brought against their sorry asses.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The hardcore pro-lifers aren't really against abortion, they are just for being able to tell other people what to do.

I can't see how anyone can say that. I think hardcore pro-lifers are deeply against it from a moral standpoint and believe it should be illegal. They also believe that it is their God-given duty to protect the life of a fetus. They're not doing it just for the sake of telling people what to do.

[Flasch186]

I believe the vote is outside of the range to be misinterpreted when using terms like "Vast Majority"....but who knows...."They're" is getting abused in this thread.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The hardcore pro-lifers aren't really against abortion, they are just for being able to tell other people what to do.

This is wrong, just as much as dropping babies off roofs for science to see how they splattered would be.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I can't see how anyone can say that. I think hardcore pro-lifers are deeply against it from a moral standpoint and believe it should be illegal. They also believe that it is their God-given duty to protect the life of a fetus. They're not doing it just for the sake of telling people what to do.

There's rub... that belief is responsible for a lot of things (some good some bad) in this country.

Why can't people mind their own business? Because God said they shouldn't...

[KWhit]

I want to see a three-way flamewar starring MBBF, Noop, and TCY Junkie. Maybe even throw in JBMagic for kicks.

That would create some epic posts, I'm sure. Incomprehensible, but epic.

[Schmidty]

I'm not going to read this thread, but I will say this: I am very much pro-life, but murdering someone is obviously very wrong, and does nothing to help the cause.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I want to see a three-way flamewar starring MBBF, Noop, and TCY Junkie. Maybe even throw in JBMagic for kicks.

That would create some epic posts, I'm sure. Incomprehensible, but epic.

Meh.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Noop

There's rub... that belief is responsible for a lot of things (some good some bad) in this country.

Why can't people mind their own business? Because God said they shouldn't...

Damn Noop. You're making too much sense in this thread. Go back to the dog-killer thread type of posts. That will help make my previous post make much more sense.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Damn Noop. You're making too much sense in this thread. Go back to the dog-killer thread type of posts. That will help make my previous post make much more sense.

Then you'll be even more disappointed to find that I agree with him.

[Flasch186]

if that's the case, than this thread should shine a big giant spotlight on how much damage you've done to your own credibility and voice over the past X amount of months/years at least in this FOFC world. Perhaps you can comment on that?

[revrew]

I gotta admit I am personally offended by some of the posts in this thread, which frankly I would classify as outright bigotry, or at very least flaming prejudice.

For the record:
1. I am an extremist Christian
2. I am a hard-core pro-lifer, who believes abortion, while legal, is murder
3. Heck, I'm even a writer on one of those "crazy right-wing" websites

Now, that said, I care about the lives of babies. Not controlling people. That assertion is not only incorrect, it's wrong. I also care about the mothers, for that matter, so don't even go there.

As for this particular case, who is "worse" or "better" is kind of a strange construction. As an extremist Christian, I believe we are all fallen people whose lives and "sins" lead to death each and every day, so I don't like to say some people are "worse" than others.

But in this case, one man murdered within the law. One man murdered outside the law. The latter was also guilty of taking vengeance into his own hands, a practice forbidden by biblical principle. I believe Tiller was a wicked man. But if we're determining "worse" by who commits the most sins, you gotta go with the shooter.

Regardless of who is "worse," I do not celebrate Tiller's murder. I would have celebrated his repentance, I would have celebrated his retirement, I would have celebrated his reconciliation with God. Murder, however, cannot be celebrated.

I contend that if it is bigotry at least prejudice to say, "Mexicans are usually lazy; Blacks are usually gangsters; watch out for gays, you never know which are pedophiles" and so forth (and I would say it is), then it is equally bigotry to say "Pro-lifers don't care about babies; they celebrate killing abortion doctors". And I condemn such statements as nothing less than hate speech.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Ummm I did. And I insinuated that the full power of the Patriot Act ought to be brought against their sorry asses.

I meant more so in the Media. I agree with what you said 100%.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by revrew

I contend that if it is bigotry at least prejudice to say, "Mexicans are usually lazy; Blacks are usually gangsters; watch out for gays, you never know which are pedophiles" and so forth (and I would say it is), then it is equally bigotry to say "Pro-lifers don't care about babies; they celebrate killing abortion doctors"

Hmm...I think I might just agree with you.

And I appreciate the other point of view that you bring to this thread, and your well-reasoned, coherently-expressed beliefs that are entirely rational on the situation (well except for the whole religious part which of course I respectfully disagree with).

[Noop]

Originally Posted by revrew

Now, that said, I care about the lives of babies. Not controlling people. That assertion is not only incorrect, it's wrong. I also care about the mothers, for that matter, so don't even go there.

You care but I can't say for certain the rest who carry the same banner as you do.

Originally Posted by revrew

As for this particular case, who is "worse" or "better" is kind of a strange construction. As an extremist Christian, I believe we are all fallen people whose lives and "sins" lead to death each and every day, so I don't like to say some people are "worse" than others.

There goes those beliefs again.

[larrymcg421]

What's funniest about this thread is that MBBF has been waiting all this time to give us this big surprise revelation that he doesn't think murdering abortion doctors is okay, as if it somehow makes him this totally reasonable guy and we misjudged him all along.

[Galaxy]

Isn't this thread just trolling and baiting?

[Drake]

I'm going to call it a push and grieve for the mistakes both of these men committed and the lives they negatively impacted.

[Tekneek]

terrorism - the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Drake

I'm going to call it a push and grieve for the mistakes both of these men committed and the lives they negatively impacted.

Awesome!

So if I am anti- death penalty I can go around shooting jurors who condemn people to it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

What's funniest about this thread is that MBBF has been waiting all this time to give us this big surprise revelation that he doesn't think murdering abortion doctors is okay, as if it somehow makes him this totally reasonable guy and we misjudged him all along.

Uh, what? You give me far too much credit.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Drake

I'm going to call it a push and grieve for the mistakes both of these men committed and the lives they negatively impacted.

Are you certain that every abortion was a negative impact on a life? I'm not convinced you have access to the medical records to make that determination.

[Galaxy]

I eat trout that's been killed. Does that make me a bad person?

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I eat trout that's been killed. Does that make me a bad person?

Yes.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Awesome!

So if I am anti- death penalty I can go around shooting jurors who condemn people to it.

Sure, you won't have to worry about being executed that way. Good plan.

[remper]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I mean I'm against abortion so if someone asked me if I'm pro-life, I'd say yes. But I'm not for making it illegal.

Then you're pro-choice... You want people to be able to choose, even if you don't necessarily agree. I'm in the same camp I guess. In many cases I might not agree with the motives for having the abortion, but it's none of my damn business. That's the problem with arguing apples vs. oranges like the debate about abortion does.

[larrymcg421]

I'm pro-life, but I'm pro-the whole life. My distaste for much of the pro-life movement is they seem to care more about unborn children than they do about children who have already been born.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm pro-life, but I'm pro-the whole life. My distaste for much of the pro-life movement is they seem to care more about unborn children than they do about children who have already been born.

+1

I wanted to say that earlier but I was sure it would have started a flame war.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm pro-life, but I'm pro-the whole life. My distaste for much of the pro-life movement is they seem to care more about unborn children than they do about children who have already been born.

Against the death penalty, and anti-war as well, I presume?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Against the death penalty, and anti-war as well, I presume?

Yes.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Against the death penalty, and anti-war as well, I presume?

Is there something wrong with that?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Against the death penalty, and anti-war as well, I presume?

That's me.

Pro-life. I hate the death penalty. War only when absolutely necessary.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

That's me.

Pro-life. I hate the death penalty. War only when absolutely necessary.

Aren't you religous?

Whatever happened to eye for an eye?

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Is there something wrong with that?

Nothing, IMO. It is a view I happen to share. We may not agree on how the government gets involved in this, but in general it is a personal philosophy that makes sense to me.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Aren't you religous?

Whatever happened to eye for an eye?

I believe that everyone is redeemable. But even aside from that, I don't believe that the government should have that much power over life and death. If one person out of million dies unjustly because of the system, the system is broken. Just my opinion.

Now I'm going to try to leave the thread.

[larrymcg421]

I am, however, pro-embryonic stem cell research.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I can't see how anyone can say that. I think hardcore pro-lifers are deeply against it from a moral standpoint and believe it should be illegal. They also believe that it is their God-given duty to protect the life of a fetus. They're not doing it just for the sake of telling people what to do.

Originally Posted by revrew

I gotta admit I am personally offended by some of the posts in this thread, which frankly I would classify as outright bigotry, or at very least flaming prejudice.

For the record:
1. I am an extremist Christian
2. I am a hard-core pro-lifer, who believes abortion, while legal, is murder
3. Heck, I'm even a writer on one of those "crazy right-wing" websites

Now, that said, I care about the lives of babies. Not controlling people. That assertion is not only incorrect, it's wrong. I also care about the mothers, for that matter, so don't even go there.

Here's my problem with a lot of people in the pro-life movement. It seems they are more concerned about bitching about abortions, holding protests that won't change anything, and picking fights than with actually lowering the amount of abortions in this country.

- The people against abortion are also people who are against contraceptives. They fight against the handing out of condoms in school and teaching teenagers how to protect themselves. These alone would drastically cut down on the number of abortions every year. None of the major pro-life organizations discuss contraceptives and a few even say not to take them.

- The people behind the pro-life movement are rarely involved in adoption, health care, or child care organizations. Sure they list a number on their website, but most of their energy is put into lobbying, fliers, commercials, etc. They aren't funneling their money to adoption organizations en masse. They aren't putting together programs to raise money for poor mothers. They aren't offering to pay their medical bills. They aren't offering them child care services.

- The pro-life movement is on the same side of the aisle that is against nationalizing healthcare and providing all kids in our country with it. It just seems ridiculous to be so concerned about an unborn child but not give a shit what happens to it once it's born.

Take the Notre Dame issue for example. These idiots thought it was more important to run around on a college campus with signs than actually cutting down on abortions. Why didn't they spend their time working at a free child care clinic? Why not work to raise money to help single mothers with medical bills? Why not devote your time and energy to passing out condoms in poor communities where abortions are prevelant? Those are all things that will lower the number of abortions in this country. If they truly care about the amount of unborn babies being killed, they would do things like that.

That is my point. None of these groups are working at cutting back the number of abortions in this country. In fact, their stance on issues like contraceptives is actually causing more abortions. Like I said, they care more about telling people what they can and can't do than with actually cutting back on the number of abortions. I dont' know how you could argue that.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Here's my problem with a lot of people in the pro-life movement. It seems they are more concerned about bitching about abortions, holding protests that won't change anything, and picking fights than with actually lowering the amount of abortions in this country.

- The people against abortion are also people who are against contraceptives. They fight against the handing out of condoms in school and teaching teenagers how to protect themselves. These alone would drastically cut down on the number of abortions every year. None of the major pro-life organizations discuss contraceptives and a few even say not to take them.

- The people behind the pro-life movement are rarely involved in adoption, health care, or child care organizations. Sure they list a number on their website, but most of their energy is put into lobbying, fliers, commercials, etc. They aren't funneling their money to adoption organizations en masse. They aren't putting together programs to raise money for poor mothers. They aren't offering to pay their medical bills. They aren't offering them child care services.

- The pro-life movement is on the same side of the aisle that is against nationalizing healthcare and providing all kids in our country with it. It just seems ridiculous to be so concerned about an unborn child but not give a shit what happens to it once it's born.

Take the Notre Dame issue for example. These idiots thought it was more important to run around on a college campus with signs than actually cutting down on abortions. Why didn't they spend their time working at a free child care clinic? Why not work to raise money to help single mothers with medical bills? Why not devote your time and energy to passing out condoms in poor communities where abortions are prevelant? Those are all things that will lower the number of abortions in this country. If they truly care about the amount of unborn babies being killed, they would do things like that.

That is my point. None of these groups are working at cutting back the number of abortions in this country. In fact, their stance on issues like contraceptives is actually causing more abortions. Like I said, they care more about telling people what they can and can't do than with actually cutting back on the number of abortions. I dont' know how you could argue that.

There are so many incorrect generalizations in your post, that I don't even know where to start. I will say this - "The people against abortion" as you put it, aren't all the same in their overall beliefs, and saying so is ignorant.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

There are so many incorrect generalizations in every single post Rainmaker makes or has ever made at FOFC, that I don't even know where to start.

Fixed.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Most pro-life people, including this killer, don't care about saving babies. They care about telling other people what they can and can't do with themselves.

DING.

I have to admit I'm surprised of the poll findings considering the audience, but it's nice to see people can think.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

I have to admit I'm surprised of the poll findings considering the audience, but it's nice to see people can think.

I'd agree with you. Everyone acts as if the poll results were a foregone conclusion, but I'm relatively impressed with the response overall.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Aren't you religous?

Whatever happened to eye for an eye?

I'm not religious, but I think this bible quote is always misunderstood.

Didn't Jesus shoot down the whole eye for an eye deal?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

DING.

I can't believe you agree with his statement. You must not know too many pro-lifers. You just watch the news where the loudest wackos and killers overshadow the vast majority of pro-lifers who, I guarantee actually do care about saving babies.

I'm disgusted right now. Generalizations like yours are more ignorant than the people you're indicting.

I better leave the thread before I turn into the old angry Schmidty again.

[CU Tiger]

Who more deserving: Abortion Doctor or Mentally Challenged teen who runs from Cops?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm not religious, but I think this bible quote is always misunderstood.

Didn't Jesus shoot down the whole eye for an eye deal?

Isn't every bible quote misunderstood?

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'd agree with you. Everyone acts as if the poll results were a foregone conclusion, but I'm relatively impressed with the response overall.

I think the poll sucked so I didn't vote and people that think they are above you, if they post above you or not, also suck.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Isn't every bible quote misunderstood?

Probably, but that one's the most blatant I'm aware of.

People say, "the bible says an eye for an eye", when I'm pretty sure Jesus actually said the oppositte, something like, "you have heard 'eye for eye', but I tell you today, turn the other cheek" (or something).