Alright Boyz!!! NHL 08 impressions!!!!!

[TurnerONU22]

First, the demo was on Pro difficulty, so I'm reserving judgement until I play on one of the higher levels. The part of the demo I didn't like on Pro was that the defense seemed to just play "too smart", which means they would just remain in good position, and not be aggressive at all. I believe the producer (Littman) said that when you go to higher levels, that the defense will be much more aggressive.

I still don't understand the big deal about this, I don't plan on sticking my guy at that spot, and not playing the game. When you actually play hockey, it plays like a hockey game should.

[Maple Leafs]

Actually, I'd be willing to bet the problem is worse this year. Even in the demo, I find that the defence is way too passive once you've set up in the offensive zone. Every shift feels like a powerplay because you can basically pass it around without much fear of being touched. The AI is good at getting into position to pick off a pass, but they don't come near you along the boards. The same could be said for your own defence when the cpu has the puck.

Maybe it will be better at higher levels (the demo was only "pro"). It's not a deal-breaker since as somebody mentioned you don't have to stand around if you don't want to. But the bigger picture is that the demo at least has no feeling of hockey "flow" in terms of attacking rushes. You just skate into the zone, stop, and try to set up a scoring chance.

It's great that EA finally has made something that allows some basic passing plays (e.g. pass to the point without them going offside), but as always with any positive new feature they seem to have gone too far on the implementation.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

How in the world can EA manage to leave the glaring AI bugs that were pointed out in LAST year's build in this year's build. Even when consumers publicly point out problems in their AI, they still don't fix it. Amazing.

From the SportsGamer blog:



Here's the video from last year's game......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhokV_NHGxg

EA, it's called Testing 101. If it was a problem in last year's build, test the same scenario on this year's build to make sure it doesn't get through.

You've become such a shill.

The f'cking developers have said on the higher difficulties, the AI will attack more and become much more aggressive.. they wanted to allow new players to learn the controls in the demo. If at AS and Superstar, the defenders still sit around, then I'll judge the game.

It's fcking funny though, I've played over 100 games of NHL 07 and I've never seen this yet. Although I've learned to actually play games instead of doing stupid shit like this.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

First, the demo was on Pro difficulty, so I'm reserving judgement until I play on one of the higher levels. The part of the demo I didn't like on Pro was that the defense seemed to just play "too smart", which means they would just remain in good position, and not be aggressive at all. I believe the producer (Littman) said that when you go to higher levels, that the defense will be much more aggressive.

I still don't understand the big deal about this, I don't plan on sticking my guy at that spot, and not playing the game. When you actually play hockey, it plays like a hockey game should.

It's more fun to bitch about a game that's not even out yet. I mean, why not "jbmagic" a post from another site claiming the game's broken from a fcking demo?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

You've become such a shill.

The f'cking developers have said on the higher difficulties, the AI will attack more and become much more aggressive.. they wanted to allow new players to learn the controls in the demo. If at AS and Superstar, the defenders still sit around, then I'll judge the game.

No offense, but if there's a problem in the demo and the developers say "no, we meant to do that, don't worry it will be fixed in the real game", and you believe it... well, I admire your optimism.

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

No offense, but if there's a problem in the demo and the developers say "no, we meant to do that, don't worry it will be fixed in the real game", and you believe it... well, I admire your optimism.

I don't think it is a problem, I think that the passive quality of the defense is what you will see if you play at the Pro level, to make the game easier. It was just set at a lower level for the demo and not something designed just for the demo.

I do agree that if I see this on the higher levels, then I will not be too pleased. Also, if I remember right, I think some of the sliders were adjusted from the normal for the demo. I was able to look at the sliders right before I started the game, but I could not adjust them. I'll take a look when I get home, but it could be that the 'aggressive' slider was lessened.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

I don't think it is a problem, I think that the passive quality of the defense is what you will see if you play at the Pro level, to make the game easier. It was just set at a lower level for the demo and not something designed just for the demo.

But if it was purely a case of the Pro level AI, why does my own team behave the same way? Does the difficulty level affect every AI player on the ice, or only the CPU ones? Would seem kind of odd to make everyone play poorly at the lower levels.

[Icy]

Off topic, fun to see how the Mizzou fans friendship is growing in each new game thread

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Icy

Off topic, fun to see how the Mizzou fans friendship is growing in each new game thread

Ah, we're all good. Rah just gets worked up at times. Discussions would be awfully boring if everyone agreed. I just assume he's having a craving for a dip of chew when he gets fired up.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

But if it was purely a case of the Pro level AI, why does my own team behave the same way? Does the difficulty level affect every AI player on the ice, or only the CPU ones? Would seem kind of odd to make everyone play poorly at the lower levels.

Agreed. The last thing players should do even at the lower levels is just to do nothing. If anything, they should take bad angles on players or be over-agressive to where it's easier to get passes in behind the defense. Also, I'll repeat that this was a problem in last year's build. If it was a new thing this year, it could be excused as just a demo glitch. When it was show to be in the production build for last year, it then becomes a problem that simply wasn't addressed in any way.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

No offense, but if there's a problem in the demo and the developers say "no, we meant to do that, don't worry it will be fixed in the real game", and you believe it... well, I admire your optimism.

No offense taken, but honestly, I've NEVER noticed this in any game of '07 I've played. Maybe it's because I don't try and do things like this.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

No offense taken, but honestly, I've NEVER noticed this in any game of '07 I've played. Maybe it's because I don't try and do things like this.

And I totally agree as a gamer that you shouldn't bother thinking about this specific instance. You're the consumer. You're paying someone to do it for you. The problem is that this is a clear instance that EA continues to have very poor QA testing for its games and the consumers are the ones suffering.

The Madden and NCAA demos are another clear example of this. When people played it, they instantly noted that there were some major balance issues with fumbles and interceptions. People said that it was likely just a demo issue and that it would be cleaned up for the final build. It wasn't just a demo issue and it never was cleaned up.

It's baffling that a bunch of idiots like us can find these issues in a couple hours of gameplay, yet a well-paid QA team can't find them over a few months of testing.

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

But if it was purely a case of the Pro level AI, why does my own team behave the same way? Does the difficulty level affect every AI player on the ice, or only the CPU ones? Would seem kind of odd to make everyone play poorly at the lower levels.

Yeah, I do agree with you there, but it is not that they are playing poorly, they are just playing passive. They are staying in perfect position, and you have to work the puck around to get them out of position. I always played the NHL07 with the aggression slider set as high as possible, and I never witnessed just being able to sit there. Of course, I change a lot of the settings, such as puck control decreased, pass speed decrease, shot speed decrease, of which they put in there to fit the 'casual' gamer instead of the 'hardcore' gamer.

I'm not too worried about it now, because I believe that the sliders will fix it, as they did last year, but there are just too many variables that are fixed in the demo (level, sliders, ect..) for me to be convinced that I won't be able to get the game to play as I want it to.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

And I totally agree as a gamer that you shouldn't bother thinking about this specific instance. You're the consumer. You're paying someone to do it for you. The problem is that this is a clear instance that EA continues to have very poor QA testing for its games and the consumers are the ones suffering.

The Madden and NCAA demos are another clear example of this. When people played it, they instantly noted that there were some major balance issues with fumbles and interceptions. People said that it was likely just a demo issue and that it would be cleaned up for the final build. It wasn't just a demo issue and it never was cleaned up.

It's baffling that a bunch of idiots like us can find these issues in a couple hours of gameplay, yet a well-paid QA team can't find them over a few months of testing.

AGAIN, it's a fn demo for peat's sake.

[TurnerONU22]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

AGAIN, it's a fn demo for peat's sake.

Actually, I understand what he's saying here and he's right. The demo is how the game will play at the same level. I expect if I set the same stuff up in the real game, it will play the same.

However, I just don't feel that comparing the interceptions and fumbles from Madden/NCAA (a game changing issue) is the same as exploting a small bug that doesn't affect the game at all. It would be different if the goalies were constantly letting in weak goals (a game changing issue) or a certain shot would ALWAYS go in, but that's just NOT what we are seeing here.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

AGAIN, it's a fn demo for peat's sake.

As it was in the Madden and NCAA example that I cited. I'd drop $100 on the table right now that there's a YouTube video within a month that recreates that exact same situation because I'm pretty sure there's no way EA fixes it. I doubt anyone would put down money against mine to say that they think it will actually be fixed in the final build.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

However, I just don't feel that comparing the interceptions and fumbles from Madden/NCAA (a game changing issue) is the same as exploting a small bug that doesn't affect the game at all.

Agree to some extent, though the question remains that if this kind of a AI flaw can make it through to a 2nd year build, what else did they miss? Yes, it's only a what if question, but it's a valid concern.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

No offense taken, but honestly, I've NEVER noticed this in any game of '07 I've played. Maybe it's because I don't try and do things like this.

Yeah, I'm not really worried about the "you can just stand there" bug since I'm not sure why you'd ever want to do that.

But in the 08 demo, I definitely noticed that the defence was way too passive. Not just a little passive, sitting back and playing a strategic game, but way too passive. And that could be a problem in terms of the overall fun factor, because it didn't feel like real NHL hockey. You lose the flow to the game when you know you can just skate into the zone, slam on the brakes, and then try to set something up while the defence waits around for you.

I'd be willing to bet that, on balance, it will still be more fun than the alternative -- skate in, either try desperate pass for one-timer right away or lose the puck. I like that they've slowed it down a bit and added some strategy. I just think they've gone too far. It feels like playing Madden with no pass rush and eight guys in coverage.

My guess is that this won't be as big an issue in two-player mode since the human player can always chase the puck around if they want.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's baffling that a bunch of idiots like us can find these issues in a couple hours of gameplay, yet a well-paid QA team can't find them over a few months of testing.

These sorts of issues are almost always the result of a last-minute tweak that inadvertently breaks something. It's not like the QA team is sitting around for months seeing ten fumbles per game and not realizing it's an issue. I know it's fun to pretend that the QA guys are idiots but in reality they're usually not the ones causing the problems.

(Oh, and they're also usually not all that well-paid...)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

These sorts of issues are almost always the result of a last-minute tweak that inadvertently breaks something. It's not like the QA team is sitting around for months seeing ten fumbles per game and not realizing it's an issue. I know it's fun to pretend that the QA guys are idiots but in reality they're usually not the ones causing the problems.

(Oh, and they're also usually not all that well-paid...)

They're paid more than the beta test squads that test some of the text sim games that we play. Those text sims are a WHOLE lot more complicated and I'd argue that those alpha and beta teams do better work than what it appears the EA testers do.

I agree that last minute stupid tweaks by the developers could also be an issue, but that doesn't make the situation any better.

[TurnerONU22]

While we're all here and discussing this game, who is looking to get it and has XBL? I don't have XBL yet, but I am planning on getting it with this game IF we can start up a league here. Does anyone else have any interest in that?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Yeah, I'm not really worried about the "you can just stand there" bug since I'm not sure why you'd ever want to do that.

But in the 08 demo, I definitely noticed that the defence was way too passive. Not just a little passive, sitting back and playing a strategic game, but way too passive. And that could be a problem in terms of the overall fun factor, because it didn't feel like real NHL hockey. You lose the flow to the game when you know you can just skate into the zone, slam on the brakes, and then try to set something up while the defence waits around for you.

I'd be willing to bet that, on balance, it will still be more fun than the alternative -- skate in, either try desperate pass for one-timer right away or lose the puck. I like that they've slowed it down a bit and added some strategy. I just think they've gone too far. It feels like playing Madden with no pass rush and eight guys in coverage.

My guess is that this won't be as big an issue in two-player mode since the human player can always chase the puck around if they want.

Well, at this point in time, I'm going to take Littman's word where he's said at higher levels ie-the next difficulty setting, you'll see the AI become less passive and start attacking. I've never played this game on pro, nor do I plan to now.

[MizzouRah]

If I'm on the PP and I can setup that's fine, but yes.. 5 on 5 I fully expect the AI to come after me in their zone. If Littman is wrong, then I'll start looking at NHL 2k8.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Those text sims are a WHOLE lot more complicated and I'd argue that those alpha and beta teams do better work than what it appears the EA testers do.

FOF is more complicated than Madden? Really?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

FOF is more complicated than Madden? Really?

From a horsepower perspective, obviously Madden or any other current-gen game has a lot under the hood in regards to graphics. But it's obvious when you have graphics issues and relatively easy to test. When you have a text sim like FOF and FM, there's a lot more little things that can be really tough to replicate or test for given the level of realism that these games try to reproduce. I've tested a console football game and OOTP just for comparison. The testing of OOTP was much more difficult IMO.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

While we're all here and discussing this game, who is looking to get it and has XBL? I don't have XBL yet, but I am planning on getting it with this game IF we can start up a league here. Does anyone else have any interest in that?

I will have to play a bit just to get decent but I could be.

[Maple Leafs]

I tried the demo again last night, and I have to say that I think the "passice defence" problem isn't as bad as I remembered it. One defensive player will usually make an effort to attack the puck (even though it's sometimes the wrong guy based on positioning). It's still very easy to get around that one guy but I feel a lot better about chalking that up to the difficulty level.

I think there's going to be an issue with how easy it is to skate into the slot and take a high percentage shot -- both sides (mine and the cpu's) were doing this with relative ease all game and it doesn't feel very realistic. But again, maybe that's going to be a difficulty issue.

All in all I think the outlook is better than I'd originally made it out to be.

[MizzouRah]

From MBB's favorite blog:

- I was able to verify the AI issue with the NHL08 demo again. It does only seem to exist as an issue on the powerplay though. Once you're on the power play, and control the puck in the offensive zone, the defense will not go after you if you have the puck outside of the dots. This may be a setting that can be adjusted (agressiveness on the PK perhaps,) but the second the power play is over, they go after you. We'll have to see if it persists in the full version of the game, which Dan mentioned that had been bumped for a week.... hmm. (Edit: looks like in the comments someone says that this is an agression issue in the demo and that it isn't present in the full version. Here's hoping.)

[Logan]

So basically the "issue" is a standard hockey tactic that EA got right?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Logan

So basically the "issue" is a standard hockey tactic that EA got right?

As usual, people love to bitch about nothing.

[MizzouRah]

This is great:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JX0O9t9MLU

Appropriately titled...

Take a look at this one now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy0pXTnx85Q

[MizzouRah]

NHL 08 Interview, courtsey of Operation Sports:

http://features.operationsports.com/...nhl08interview

Some points I like:

Operation Sports: Has the Draft been upgraded in any way? More advanced scouting during dynasty mode?

David Littman: We have improved our scouting this year by having your scout provide ranges for each attribute. The more you scout an area of the world the better the information will be when you receive it. We have also added a Scouting Central page which changes every month or so to tell you where the CPU believes the prospects are ranked in terms of draft position but you will ultimately have to use your scout to determine what the best pick is for you. There are also “Franchise” players that show up every two to five years, like a Sydney or Mario. Those are the years when you will want to trade for the number one pick [or finish last].


Operation Sports: Will all the AHL teams have real players and no "fake name" players?

David Littman: The AHL has real players on the teams. We have the PHPA license which allows to use any AHL player who has signed a waiver for use in our game. So there might be some players missing but as soon as we get the ok to use the player, we will be adding him into the game through roster updates.


Operation Sports: Will the AI, once they get in the offensive zone, set up plays and pass the puck to the teammate that has the best shot.


David Littman: Yes, we had four people work specifically on AI for the entire year. If the AI controlled team does not have an odd-man rush, they will usually look to set up in the offensive zone and work the puck around until they see a good scoring chance. Also, guys like Jagr will sometimes try and beat a defender one on one to get a scoring chance. The AI team starts to learn your weaknesses the more you play. If you always attack at the blueline, they will start dumping the puck. On All-Star and Superstar difficulty settings, if you start running around in the d-zone, I can guarantee the AI team will take advantage and make you pay.


Operation Sports: Will "dynamic crowds" be featured this year (for example, will crowds be sold out in Buffalo yet half-full in Chicago)?


David Littman: There will be dynamic crowds in our game this year. Also, during the play-offs, expect to see the sea of red in Calgary and entire home team crowds wearing a specific team color.


Operation Sports: Will teams have their own specific offensive, defensive and special team (powerplay/penalty killing) tendencies or plays in the game? For example, the Sabres mount a ton of tension by passing numerous times in their opponent's zone during a power play. Will we see this from their virtual counterparts and other teams that use similar tactics or will the CPU basically use a generic play?


David Littman: Yes. Each team has been programmed to play like their real life counterparts. The Devils will sit back and wait for their opportunities, while the Sabres will attack more often. But, their strategies are always changing. If you are up by two goals, the Devils will change their game and take more chances. If you sit back too much in your own zone, teams will start shooting from the point. Different player types will play differently. Bertuzzi will drive wide and use his body, while Ovechkin will try and beat a defenseman one on one. All teams will take advantage of your mistakes. You have to play solid defense or you will get burned. You can’t run around and try and check everyone. Opponents with good puck handling skills will deke past you. You can’t run around with poke held down, or you will get a lot of tripping penalties. You need to stay in the passing lanes and only attack at the correct times.


Operation Sports: Will the Defensive AI be more aggressive when I put one of my guys in front of the net?

David Littman: Yes. On the two higher difficulty levels, you will have a tough time getting to the net. You can try a one on one deke with a good player, or get the puck back to the point and work the puck around. D-men will look to get forwards out from in front of the net so the goalie can see the puck. Screen shots mean a lot in NHL 08, so they are a great way of scoring if you see one.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The AI team starts to learn your weaknesses the more you play.

In the last demo game I played, I had the announcers suddenly start going on (and on, and on) about how the defence knew my tendencies and I was an idiot for not changing my strategy. Good to see the EA Sports announcers still have "hit you with a sledgehammer mode" for new features.

[MizzouRah]

I just watched as Ottawa smoked me for 3 goals in the demo last night. All 3 were legitimate goals and it's so easy to tell when their top line was on the ice.

I'm also noticing the goofy bounce off the goalies goals are gone.. or at least not near as likely as last year.

Tuesday is almost here!!!!

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I'm also noticing the goofy bounce off the goalies goals are gone.. or at least not near as likely as last year.

I only saw one in about seven or eight periods. Not bad.

Side note: I never saw a penalty called in the demo, would have been nice to see the special teams play. I also never saw a fight, but others have reported that it's the usual terrible button mashfest that always seems to show up in EA games.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I only saw one in about seven or eight periods. Not bad.

Side note: I never saw a penalty called in the demo, would have been nice to see the special teams play. I also never saw a fight, but others have reported that it's the usual terrible button mashfest that always seems to show up in EA games.

I've seen some penalties, but I do remember the developers saying at higher levels penalties would be enforced more.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I've seen some penalties, but I do remember the developers saying at higher levels penalties would be enforced more.

I'd like to see a game where each team gets four or five powerplays, like in real life. For some reason EA games always seem to have the penalties cranked way down.

That said, it's one area where I don't mind using a slider to get it right.

[Icy]

I gues this will be the hockey game to purchase this year, but also hearing good things about 2k one, that is including stick handling with the gamepad's right joy too. My final decission would go towards the one with the less buggy and more complete franchise mode.

[MizzouRah]

In 2k's game, the RT only moves the stick, you have to also use the bumpers to pass and shoot... makes it a no-brainer for me. I love pulling back on the RT and pushing foward to shoot.

1up.com had some time with the game and they didn't like 2k's controls at all. I guess we'll see.

[Pumpy Tudors]

This game ships tomorrow. I don't have a preorder in anywhere for it. I'm hoping to just walk into Wal-Mart or Best Buy on Wednesday to pick it up.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

This game ships tomorrow. I don't have a preorder in anywhere for it. I'm hoping to just walk into Wal-Mart or Best Buy on Wednesday to pick it up.

Mine is paid in full. I just wish it was available tomorrow.

It's been awhile since I've ventured into the dynasty forum, but I just might do an NHL 08 Blues dynasty once this one arrives.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Mine is paid in full. I just wish it was available tomorrow.

It's been awhile since I've ventured into the dynasty forum, but I just might do an NHL 08 Blues dynasty once this one arrives.

I'd follow this. However, you'd have to promise me you get to the playoffs

[Icy]

I'll wait for your reviews and to see how bad are the franchise bugs before purchasing this. I'm still pissed because the crap Madden franchise this year. I don't play games online so a good franchise is a must for me, else it's just like buying a game to play exhibition games.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FYI to PS3 owners. Multiple sites are reporting major framerate issues with NHL '08. It has been confirmed that their competition, NHL 2K8, runs at 60 FPS without problem. IGN has even gone to the point to call out EA for their lazy work on the PS3. They're honestly running out of excuses with most of their competitors not having any problems running at a much higher framerate.........

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/819/819015p3.html

"Now for the bad news PS3 owners. EA once again does you a huge disservice. With its first NHL title on PS3, EA has really dropped the ball visually. While the gameplay and feature set is identical to 360, the framerate is not. And while EA would like to say the PS3 version runs at 30 frames per second, that's questionable. PlayStation editor Greg Miller put it best upon first seeing NHL 08 running on PS3: "It looks like they're playing hockey under a strobe light." You can still play and enjoy NHL 08 on PS3, but don't you deserve a perfect framerate? Shouldn't you demand a better-looking game? Write your Congressman and get EA to pay the PS3 a bit more respect. Nearly a year into its life, the PS3 should have sports games that run smoothly."

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FYI to PS3 owners. Multiple sites are reporting major framerate issues with NHL '08. It has been confirmed that their competition, NHL 2K8, runs at 60 FPS without problem. IGN has even gone to the point to call out EA for their lazy work on the PS3. They're honestly running out of excuses with most of their competitors not having any problems running at a much higher framerate.........

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/819/819015p3.html

Ok, then my only possible choice is 2k. I'm going to miss the skill stick a lot, but after seing the garbage that Madden is in the ps3 and reading that is NHL going to be the same or even worse, i'll forget about EA for a while.

Btw, good review of both games:

[MizzouRah]

I know ps3 owners are pissed, but hockey is one game EA actually gets right. YMMV however.

It does make sense though... 2k sports have to please the ps3 crowd as well due to much less sales in their sports games.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I'd follow this. However, you'd have to promise me you get to the playoffs

Most definitely!!!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

It does make sense though... 2k sports have to please the ps3 crowd as well due to much less sales in their sports games.

And EA doesn't need the PS3 crowd?

C'mon now. Even with an 360 installed base roughly double what the PS3 has worldwide, they still need the PS3 crowd for roughly 25-30% of their total NHL game sales to make ends meet.

Investors are already concerned about the low sales numbers for Madden. If the NHL game underperforms as well (which is pretty likely if the NHL 08 build for the PS3 is flawed), there's going to be some hard questions asked of the EA execs since every EA sports game will have done worse than the '07 version in regards to sales (NBA '08 is still to come, but I bet few hold out hope that it will do anything worthwhile in sales).

[MizzouRah]

I've read the NHL 2k8 game is also having framerate issues on the ps3.. go figure.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

And EA doesn't need the PS3 crowd?

C'mon now. Even with an 360 installed base roughly double what the PS3 has worldwide, they still need the PS3 crowd for roughly 25-30% of their total NHL game sales to make ends meet.

Investors are already concerned about the low sales numbers for Madden. If the NHL game underperforms as well (which is pretty likely if the NHL 08 build for the PS3 is flawed), there's going to be some hard questions asked of the EA execs since every EA sports game will have done worse than the '07 version in regards to sales (NBA '08 is still to come, but I bet few hold out hope that it will do anything worthwhile in sales).

You keep believing that.