Best sites to customize/purchase a laptop?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

I travel with my 17" inch... Sager "desktop replacement" every now and then. Doesn't faze me at all. If you get something with the new Sandy Bridge processors battery life should be better than what some of us current owners have.

Yeah, I'm finding the 17-inch fine for portability. My daughter is home sick today, and I'm on it now in the den while she watches a Sesame Street vid. The battery meter has shown a life as long as 7 hours, and I was probably using it 3-4 in the den on Sunday without ever going upstairs to recharge, and was still showing 25%/100ish minutes when I finally did. Very happy with that.

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Glad to hear about the warranty. Dell doesn't come close to matching the durability and reliability that a Sager/Clevo provides.

Yeah, I've read/heard that, but the price break combined with the comprehensive warranty up until the time I can get a new one with an even greater price break through work sealed the deal.

[Ben E Lou]

Humpty bumpty for 2015. It's time for another one.

1. I'm no longer limited to Dell.

2. I'd like to use two external monitors, with different content on the laptop monitor and each of the two externals. What do I need to be able to do that?

3. My amount of traveling has been reduced pretty significantly since the last purchase, enough that I *might* consider a desktop again. Any particularly good ones that present significant savings over laptops, or have laptops closed the price gap? I think I'd still need to see a pretty big price gap to go the desktop route. (And no, I am absolutely not going to go through the time and trouble to build one.)

4. Is there any reason to get Windows 8? So far in the limited usage I've had of it, I don't like it.

5. Any changes to the recommendations above? I was tooling around looking at Sagers earlier this morning and they still look pretty solid...

[CU Tiger]

Im a big Lenovo fan. Their high end stuff is durable as heck and their low end stuff specs great but with cheap plastics.

Ive heard Windows 8 owners will get a free upgrade to Windows 10 when it comes out. Going 8 now with a 10 future upgrade future prrofs you for the life of the device.

I didnt realize they still made desktops

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Im a big Lenovo fan. Their high end stuff is durable as heck and their low end stuff specs great but with cheap plastics.

Ive heard Windows 8 owners will get a free upgrade to Windows 10 when it comes out. Going 8 now with a 10 future upgrade future prrofs you for the life of the device.

I didnt realize they still made desktops

I'm guessing you like the hardware not having your computer's security compromised

Lenovo honestly thought you’d enjoy that Superfish HTTPS spyware | Ars Technica

[Scoobz0202]

Yea, I'm a big fan of lenovo laptops, but this Superfish thing is baaaaad

[Julio Riddols]

Regarding question 4, with the Windows 10 update being free and coming with both Windows 7 and 8, I wouldn't worry too much about OS.

[ISiddiqui]

Also, the hate for 8 is overrated. It's actually pretty easy to figure out 8 (and esp 8.1)

[cuervo72]

I just wish the big icons and purple surround STOPPED POPPING UP EVERY TIME I GET NEAR MY FIREFOX SCROLLBAR. Because that shit pisses me off.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I just wish the big icons and purple surround STOPPED POPPING UP EVERY TIME I GET NEAR MY FIREFOX SCROLLBAR. Because that shit pisses me off.

+1

[korme]

yeah the overriding "hey did you need to use any of these cool win8 features" when you're just innocuously moving your mouse around are the only really annoying things about Win8.

I love my MSi btw.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm guessing you like the hardware not having your computer's security compromised

Lenovo honestly thought you’d enjoy that Superfish HTTPS spyware | Ars Technica

actually just saw that earlier this morning and came back to post a maybe 'not so much'...to my earlier recomendation.

I havent bought any new Lenovo since 2013, but that is a concerning article.
As someone who has never had a facebook account for privacy reasons...not happy about this.

[britrock88]

Article says Superfish hasn't been preloaded/active since December, though. I purchased a Lenovo in May and haven't seen anything like this.

[Jughead Spock]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Humpty bumpty for 2015. It's time for another one.

2. I'd like to use two external monitors, with different content on the laptop monitor and each of the two externals. What do I need to be able to do that?

4. Is there any reason to get Windows 8? So far in the limited usage I've had of it, I don't like it.

2. Easiest way these days is using DisplayPort. If your laptop has that (and the monitors), you just daisy chain them. There are ways to split DVI and HDMI, but a lot of that is card-dependent. And depending on the laptop, you could use the HDMI for 1, VGA for the other. But I hate VGA anymore. Another thought is to pick up a docking station, especially nice if you have a manufacturer specific one. Then you can just leave them plugged in and they usually allow for the dual displays (again, as long as it's supported by the card). Depending on the laptop, you may also get WiDi. That one still feels a little niche/early to me, not to mention tumor-growing. Opinion.

4. Windows 8.1 isn't so bad, and it really is hard to go back to 7 after you get used to the boot/restore time of 8, IMO. There is talk of the Windows 10 upgrade being free, BUT that is for a year from what I've read. Another way to hook you in. Not the worst thing, but I don't expect it's going to be 'free' free. That being said, buying a new laptop at this point would probably entitle you to 10.

Can't help too much on recommendations, though Sager's usually on the list. iBuyPower is pretty popular as well. You can find horror stories from any of them. I was really high on Lenovo with the Y4xx & Y5xx series, but sounds like the Y40 and Y50 are a step down. Although, it's mostly in the display itself - which, if you're planning on having two monitors hooked up at home, and your travel is down - probably isn't that big a deal. Check 'em out, I think for the money, they're certainly in the discussion.

Apart from the SuperFish thingy - but they fixed that Finally.

[Ben E Lou]

I seem to be settling on the NP9772-S. I notice that there's an option for 230W vs. 330 W on the power supply. What advantage is the higher wattage power supply?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I seem to be settling on the NP9772-S. I notice that there's an option for 230W vs. 330 W on the power supply. What advantage is the higher wattage power supply?

It depends on the earlier options you select. If you go with a beefier graphics card, top of the line CPU, or multiple non-SSD hard drives, the 330W power supply would provide more juice to run things. It may also help a battery that was run down charge faster.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cartman

It depends on the earlier options you select. If you go with a beefier graphics card, top of the line CPU, or multiple non-SSD hard drives, the 330W power supply would provide more juice to run things. It may also help a battery that was run down charge faster.

Processor: 4th Generation Intel® Haswell Core™ i7-4790K Unlocked [Z97 Chipset] (4.0GHz - 4.4GHz, 8MB Intel® Smart Cache) (SKU – SPUZ02)

Graphics Card: NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 980M (8.0GB) GDDR5 PCI-Express DX11 (Maxwell) [User Upgradeable] (SKU – GPU03X)

SSD HD: 512GB Micron M600 M.2 mSATA SSD
non-SSD HD: 1TB 7200RPM [SATA II - 3GB/s] (SKU - HDDYY1)

Thoughts?

[Ben E Lou]

Full specs if it matters:


- 17.3" FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Anti-Glare Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - SSC002)
- Sager - 4th Generation Intel® Haswell Core™ i7-4790K Unlocked [Z97 Chipset] (4.0GHz - 4.4GHz, 8MB Intel® Smart Cache) (SKU – SPUZ02)
- FREE! - IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
- NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 980M (8.0GB) GDDR5 PCI-Express DX11 (Maxwell) [User Upgradeable] (SKU – GPU03X)
- COPPER COOLING UPGRADE - Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (XPC Service - requires shipment to XOTIC PC: will add to build time)
- 32GB DDR3 1866MHz Kingston Hyper X CL10(4x8GB)
- mSATA Slot 1 Preconfigured as an OS Drive ( Operating System – Drive C: ) / mSATA Slot 2 ( Storage Drive )
- 512GB Micron M600 M.2 mSATA SSD
- 1TB 7200RPM [SATA II - 3GB/s] (SKU - HDDYY1)
- External USB 2.0 Slim DVD±R/RW Drive
- Sager - Intel® Dual Band AC 7265 [M.2 Chip] 802.11 A/AC/B/G/N 2.4/5.0GHz + Bluetooth™ 4.0 (SKU - WIFIX1)
- Internal 6-in-1 Card Reader
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- Standard 330W Sager AC Adapter
- 7 Port Powered USB Hub (power cord included)
- ~Windows 8.1 - 64-Bit (64-Bit CD Included) + MS Office 2013 Trial
- Installation of Global Anti-Theft Protection (globally track your PC if it is stolen) (O.S. Required) (XPC Service)
- 3 Year Parts & LIFETIME Ltd Labor Warranty 24/7 Tech Support w/ LCD Accidental Damage Protection for Sager Machines (SKU - WTY013)
- * 24/7 LIFETIME U.S. based technical support

[cartman]

I'd probably opt for the bigger power supply. Better to have too much than too little.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cartman

I'd probably opt for the bigger power supply. Better to have too much than too little.

Thanks!

One more question (ok..at least for now..maybe more later...)

Is this upgrade to my OS drive worth $215? Why or why not?

512GB Micron M600 M.2 mSATA SSD

vs.

512GB Samsung XP941 M.2 PCIe mSATA SSD (9772-S/52-S) ( + 215 )

[cartman]

That is an interesting choice. The Micron drive is your 'classic' laptop drive form factor. The speed is limited to 6gb/sec, the top speed of the SATA interface. The Samsung uses the new form factor, which plugs directly into the PCI bus. It is tons faster. Regular SSDs on SATA are pretty dang fast, but the ones like the Samsung are blink and you'll miss it fast. $215 is a pretty big price delta, so it will be a personal call.

[Radii]

I asked a buddy of mine who works for a laptop company why the second is $215 more:

"cuz it's pcie, it's not really msata. so that part of the description [on the second one] is wrong.

msata is on the sata bus, so its maxed at 6GB/s. pci is directly on the pci bus, and the samsung is a x4 card, so you have a much much higher bus. It's a gen 2, so its' cap at 20gb/s, and the card itself is rated at 10gb, so you have extra 4gb."


He recommended the second one, BUT, I'm not sure I've ever asked him a question and had him not recommend the bigger/more powerful thing, that's just how this guy rolls with computer parts, I usually poke a bit more to figure out if its actually worth it to me:

"to his eye and usage, he won't know the speed differences between the 2 for the price differences cuz ssd is quite fast already."

More poking on this:


"it still is faster, just you probably won't notice it, cuz it's like 1 to 2 sec, unless you are really picky or if you put it side by side"



To me that would mean I'm saving the $215 :P But if your budget is unlimited and you want to maximize, maybe.

[Ben E Lou]

Heh. Thanks, Radii. Sounds like I'm saving the $215, too. I thought maybe the Samsung was more reliable or long-lasting or something. My nearly-4-year-old SSD still boots plenty fast for my tastes. The current boot speed of my old machine is one of the few things about it that I could still live with just fine, actually. I'm sure the lesser of the two options will be just fine.

[sovereignstar v2]

Wow Ben you are going hardcore to the max. I'm kind of jelly. After spending over 3000 on a Clevo and multiple upgrades after its purchase in 2009 I am planning on spending half of that on my next buy. I am definitely going to hold off until the next Intel processors come out though. Skylake is supposedly going to be the biggest Intel release in 10 years. DDR4 ram, wireless charging, and more. I also believe the pricing of the pcie ssd's will come down as more become available later this year.

I don't game as much anymore so I'm thinking of going with something that uses the iris pro graphics, which again are supposed to be vastly improved with Skylake. A refresh and improvement upon the Clevo w740su might be up my alley.

[sovereignstar v2]

Good timing, Ben. Notebookcheck just reviewed the laptop you're looking at. It got a very impressive score of 88, which puts it at a tie in the #2 spot.

Eurocom P5 Pro Extreme (Clevo P750ZM) Notebook Review - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Good timing, Ben. Notebookcheck just reviewed the laptop you're looking at. It got a very impressive score of 88, which puts it at a tie in the #2 spot.

Eurocom P5 Pro Extreme (Clevo P750ZM) Notebook Review - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

Sweet!

Yeah, I've done a fair amount of homework, so I'm not shocked there. Of course, now I want to see what's #1.

[sovereignstar v2]

I just noticed they actually consider it a workstation. Whether that changes the weighting of the scores I'm not sure.

[sovereignstar v2]

I'm guessing you ran across NBR at some point in your quest for the ultimate laptop. Here is an owner's thread if you want to read some impressions about it. On that note, I just noticed that you are going for the 17" version. The review was for the 15", but there isn't going to be too much difference. One would think the cooling would be even better.

**Official Clevo P770ZM / Sager NP9772 Owner's Lounge** | NotebookReview

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

I just noticed they actually consider it a workstation. Whether that changes the weighting of the scores I'm not sure.

A workstation meaning that it's so big that it's not particularly mobile? (That's no biggie for me for the aforementioned reasons. I basically want a desktop that's relatively easy to take to other locations every so often when I need to.)

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

I'm guessing you ran across NBR at some point in your quest for the ultimate laptop. Here is an owner's thread if you want to read some impressions about it. On that note, I just noticed that you are going for the 17" version. The review was for the 15", but there isn't going to be too much difference. One would think the cooling would be even better.

**Official Clevo P770ZM / Sager NP9772 Owner's Lounge** | NotebookReview

Yup. Actually that thread is what tipped it to the NP9772-S.

[sovereignstar v2]

I think they chose to go with workstation because of the desktop processor, and to a less extent the ability to add a workstation graphics card (used for rendering among other things).

[Ajaxab]

I'm about to spring for a new Sager to replace my 4 year old Sager. Anyone know how much RAM is enough and how much is overkill? Looks like Ben went with 32 GB in his build. I assumed it was smarter to put money into the video card as opposed to RAM, but is that still the case? I plan to use the machine for text sims and graphically non-intensive PC games (I'll leave those types of games for the big tv and the PS4).

[INDalltheway]

You'd probably be OK with 8gb, but 16gb has become the norm on higher end machines it seems.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Full specs if it matters:


- 17.3" FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Anti-Glare Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - SSC002)
- Sager - 4th Generation Intel® Haswell Core™ i7-4790K Unlocked [Z97 Chipset] (4.0GHz - 4.4GHz, 8MB Intel® Smart Cache) (SKU – SPUZ02)
- FREE! - IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
- NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 980M (8.0GB) GDDR5 PCI-Express DX11 (Maxwell) [User Upgradeable] (SKU – GPU03X)
- COPPER COOLING UPGRADE - Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (XPC Service - requires shipment to XOTIC PC: will add to build time)
- 32GB DDR3 1866MHz Kingston Hyper X CL10(4x8GB)
- mSATA Slot 1 Preconfigured as an OS Drive ( Operating System – Drive C: ) / mSATA Slot 2 ( Storage Drive )
- 512GB Micron M600 M.2 mSATA SSD
- 1TB 7200RPM [SATA II - 3GB/s] (SKU - HDDYY1)
- External USB 2.0 Slim DVD±R/RW Drive
- Sager - Intel® Dual Band AC 7265 [M.2 Chip] 802.11 A/AC/B/G/N 2.4/5.0GHz + Bluetooth™ 4.0 (SKU - WIFIX1)
- Internal 6-in-1 Card Reader
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- Standard 330W Sager AC Adapter
- 7 Port Powered USB Hub (power cord included)
- ~Windows 8.1 - 64-Bit (64-Bit CD Included) + MS Office 2013 Trial
- Installation of Global Anti-Theft Protection (globally track your PC if it is stolen) (O.S. Required) (XPC Service)
- 3 Year Parts & LIFETIME Ltd Labor Warranty 24/7 Tech Support w/ LCD Accidental Damage Protection for Sager Machines (SKU - WTY013)scaled down to the free one-year. Buying warranty through Square Trade
- * 24/7 LIFETIME U.S. based technical support

Ordered today. Changes noted above, based mainly on feedback from here and NotebookReview forums. Thanks again for all the help!

[INDalltheway]

Ben did you order through xotic pc?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

Ben did you order through xotic pc?

Yup. Why?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Heh! Well, it only took about 4 years, but you finally heeded my advice!

Looks like a powerful machine, Ben. I am jealous.

I am currently on my second Sager. I bought it back in November 2013. It still runs pretty much everything game-wise. The only issue I have is getting blue screens of death whenever I put it into sleep mode.

Another a really weird thing is where the long I have it on the slower my wireless connection gets. If I have it on all day, eventually it slows to a crawl. All I need to do is reboot and speeds a right back up to max. I have no idea what's going on, since my wireless connection is perfectly fine on all of my other devices.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Heh! Well, it only took about 4 years, but you finally heeded my advice!

Heh. At the time I made the original post, I wasn't aware of a significant change in my employer's personal computer purchase discount program. Once I got into the weeds of making the purchase, I realized the the savings I could get by ordering a machine directly from Dell made it an absolute no-brainer. Even with the drops/spills/everything warranty, the cost to me from buying through Dell was a cheaper by a few hundred dollars iirc, and I was able to do one-year no-interest payroll deduction to pay for it. But the policy has changed again, and the changes caused non-Dell purchases to be competitive.

[INDalltheway]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Yup. Why?

I am trying to decide where to order my Sager from. Xotic PC seems to be the best bet.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

I am trying to decide where to order my Sager from. Xotic PC seems to be the best bet.

I've never used Xotic PC, but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Powernotebooks. I think they are the other major re-seller and both my brother and I ordered from them and they were great. I am sure Xotic PC is good as well.

[dzilla77]

I ordered from PowerNotebooks as well. I have also converted at least 4 of my friends to Sager and they all went through there as well.

[Ben E Lou]

From my reading, it seemed like PowerNotebooks and XoticPC are pretty much equals in terms of service, reliability, etc. I went with XoticPC because when I created the exact same specs on each, XoticPC came in with a slightly lower price.

[I. J. Reilly]

I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on a Sager, but had a few questions. these are the two I'm looking at:

Sager NP6659 (Clevo W650SC) Gaming Laptops
Sager NP7155 (Clevo W355SSQ) Gaming Laptops - Instant Rebate $100

I think I'm leaning towards the NP6659, mainly because of the glossy screen vs the matte. I'm guessing movies on glossy will look better, or am I wrong?
The NP7155 does have those big old vents on the back, will it run a lot cooler because of those? And with cooling in mind is it worth $35 to have the extra thermal paste put on? I won't be doing anything too hardcore, just FM or Paradox games for a few hours at time.

I know they're almost identical, but which one would you all choose?

[rjolley]

I'm in the market for the same thing. I was looking at the MSI line, but the Sagers are interesting as well.

You can change out the graphics card at a later date with these models? Man, that might be the better move. Only expandable to 16G, though. I'm looking for one to 32G.

As for your question, the quick difference I see is the GPU, a 950M in the NP6659 vs a 960M in the NP7155. The one that works better for you would depend on what you're going to use it for. I would get the one with the better graphics card with the price so close.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on a Sager, but had a few questions. these are the two I'm looking at:

Sager NP6659 (Clevo W650SC) Gaming Laptops
Sager NP7155 (Clevo W355SSQ) Gaming Laptops - Instant Rebate $100

I think I'm leaning towards the NP6659, mainly because of the glossy screen vs the matte. I'm guessing movies on glossy will look better, or am I wrong?
The NP7155 does have those big old vents on the back, will it run a lot cooler because of those? And with cooling in mind is it worth $35 to have the extra thermal paste put on? I won't be doing anything too hardcore, just FM or Paradox games for a few hours at time.

I know they're almost identical, but which one would you all choose?

I have a tech friend who works for Sager that I talk to almost every day, will run this by him tomorrow.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by rjolley

You can change out the graphics card at a later date with these models? Man, that might be the better move. Only expandable to 16G, though. I'm looking for one to 32G.

Unfortunately, everyone (Clevo and Alienware included) is going away from socketed parts. The two linked above could have the CPU's upgraded down the line, but not the video cards. Select Clevos still have upgradeable GPU's, but they are becoming rarer and rarer.

[rjolley]

Ok, thanks. Thinking about it, I don't really need a great GPU. I really need a great CPU, 32G RAM max, with at least 2 HDs and a good cooling system. While I do enjoy a game from time to time, I don't play graphics intensive games often.

The problem I have is that in order to find the features I need, I usually have to go with a gaming laptop of some type. And if I go with a gaming laptop, I want the best deal I can get, even if I would rarely, if ever, use most of the GPU power. Also, I would like to be able to take it into an office and not have it stand out immediately, which takes out the ROG Asus model that I'm currently using.

Right now, the Clevo-based laptops, MSI, and Lenovo have my eye. At some point in the near future, I'll pull the trigger on one of them.

[sovereignstar v2]

It's pretty hard to find a gaming laptop that ticks every box. Even the laptops that cost $2,000+ have their shortcomings. I read lots of stuff about Razer brand laptops dying. The newest fad is thinner, thinner, and thinner. Well, thinner means heat/emission problems and loud-ass fans. Gigabyte is another company that is churning out laptops you can cook eggs on.

If I was going to buy something right now I'd probably go with one of the
Acer V Nitros if I was on a budget. Otherwise, I'd go for one of the Clevo Clevo P650 models. They have been getting a lot of love since their release. They are offered with the 965, 970, or 980. (970 being best bang for the buck).

[I. J. Reilly]

rjolley, it sounds like we are after about the same thing. the ROG, Msi, Alienware etc.'s are all out from the get go for me based on looks alone. I was looking at the Asus N550JX but it looks like it will be much easier to upgrade the Sagers with more RAM and a SSD down the road.

Sovereignstar, I had no idea that upgrading a CPU would even be an option. Is that a pretty major project, or something that could be done after watching a youtube tutorial? I'm buying way more processing power then I need for now, so it won't be an issue for quite a while.

thanks all for the input.

[sovereignstar v2]

It's pretty easy to do and I'm sure there are YouTube videos. You won't be able to upgrade to anything that has a different socket though, so you'llmbe limited to Haswell and broadwell processors I think. A good way to tell if a laptop has upgradable cpu/gpu is if you are able to customize on the reseller sites. If you can't the parts are soldered. An obvious issue with soldered parts is if they go bad the whole motherboard needs replacing. I'd make sure to get a 2 year warranty at a minimum because of this.

[rjolley]

I.J., I've been looking at the MSI Dominator because it can hold 3 or 4 HDs and 32G and last year's model with an 870M can be had for a good price, but the Sager/Clevo models are very interesting and could work better.

Is XoticPC the best place to shop, or is there another one that's better? I've seen models from The Computer Upgrade King, but don't know much about them.

[sovereignstar v2]

Based solely off of browsing the NoteBookReview forums, Xotic seems to be the most popular. All reseller pricing is so similar and competitive that it's hard to differentiate them all.