Texas Legislative outlaws

[Ryche]

I was one of map drawers for the redistricting plans the Minnesota Republicans proposed after the census. I also drew the Minneapolis city council ward lines (Lines which are being challenged in the courts).

Redistricting is the ultimate political game.

[mckerney]

When it was done in Minnesota it was over a gun issue. And now up here we have to put up with the whiners who believe that with new laws making it easier for concealed carry permits to be granted they won't be able to be safe.

[Senator]

Senator, you answered your own question with your first line. They could exactly make a power-grabbing move when they weren't in control, now could they?

That was my point. The Democrats have been in power 130 years. The Republicans did not walk every time the map was re-drawn. They took it, because majority rules. Now that the tide has turned, you see this poor display of representation. We should not be so shocked by these tactics. 78% of all reps are trial lawyers.

[sabotai]

"That was my point. The Democrats have been in power 130 years. The Republicans did not walk every time the map was re-drawn. "

Well, considering they weren't in power for 130 years,it's not liek they had anything to lose when they were redrawn.

[Senator]

They could have ran and hid.

[CamEdwards]

it's like beating your head against a wall sometimes, isn't it?

[JonInMiddleGA]

it's like beating your head against a wall sometimes, isn't it?

Hell, I think that's become most of the time. It probably accounts for a lot of my hostility

[sabotai]

"it's like beating your head against a wall sometimes, isn't it?"

And with conservatives, it's like beating your head against a wall all the time.

[AgPete]

Originally posted by Senator
they hate to give it up. Only had the power since Reconstruction.

Oh c'mon Senator, you know darn well that Texas is almost a one party state these days. Let the Democrats hold on to what little status they have left. When i lived in Texas, I voted in the Republican primaries because I knew the Democrat didn't have a chance in hell.

[JPhillips]

Senator: If this happened in 2001 as the first attempt at redistricting I would be all over the Dems for leaving. My problem is the way the Repubs are redistricting for a second time in three years. That's almost unprecedented. (In fact I would like to be shown one example of voluntary redistricting only two years after a mandated redistricting.) This is a power grab by the guys in Washington. If you don't believe me look at Colorado where they are trying to do the same thing.

I agree that the Repubs should be allowed to get some advantage with redistricting if they are in charge after a census. In 2011 they can pretty much do whatever the hell they want, but for now they can't change the rule that even the Repub AG says can stand.

btw- If this were to happen in Cal with the Dems I would be saying the same thing. Redistricting can't be more of a once in a decade thing if you want to have any posibility of fairness attached to it.

[Senator]

AgPete, you got tha right! But you know, when I started my youthful foray into politics in 1992, Tarrant County Texas had one Republican. Just one. It was pretty tough to get any recognition. But we fought on. Now, we hold 121 out of 122 seats, counting judges.

The point is; and this alludes to JPhillips great points as well; even if this is most likely a ploy to strengthen the Republican seats, I have a hard time feeling sorry for the Democrats. I have had to endure 11 straight years of "Well, we are in power, so deal with it" from the Martin Frost of the world. I had to just bite my lip and take it, and wait for the chance to even up the playing field. I mean, have you guys seen the map from 1996? Those districts are about as straight as that guy on Will and Grace. So, now this feels like a quid pro quo in my opinion.

Now, before I get labled something I am not, I can see that two wrongs do not make a right. Someone said earlier that this needs to be taken out of the political spectrum. I agree. A non partisan commision should handle these things. Much like the judge races. I have always found it distasteful when a judge calls me asking for money for his campaign. It just doesn't feel right.

[AgPete]

Wow! Only one? Hard to believe it was only that recent in Tarrant County. I haven't lived in that part of Texas since the 80's. My father was a huge Texas Democrat and even represented Texas at the national convention to re-elect Jimmy Carter. He'd be turning in his grave if he could see what happened to the Democrats in Texas. Or, he'd probably just be a Republican like the rest of the old Democrats.

[Senator]

Ag,

I was the youngest delegate at the 92 National Convention in Houston. It was heady stuff. Your dad was at a pretty cool convention. I might have liked to have been a fly in that place.

I should mention that out of those 121 seats, 45 of them were Democrats who "just had a real change of heart and just had to do what they felt was right in their hearts" and jumped parties. Commisioners and JP's seem the most common.

[kcchief19]

Since when is life a Jimmy Stewart movie? In past months, this forum has served as reflection of the greater America-is-great-fervor that we all love like the bandwagon patriots that so many of us are. Then we see something that we don't like and immediately denounce it as somehow being unamerican or undemocratic.

This is American democracy in action. This is ever high school civics teacher's wet dream. This is almost as good as the 2000 electoral college fiasco. This is gold.

The Democrats running from the hills are not acting illegally. I guarandamntee you that when these provisions were put into the Texas constitution, it was done with the full knowledge that this was a valid solution. This is no different from a fillibuster and other legislative dodges designed to counter other political strategies. Chances are these guys were not sent to Austin to let the Republicans walk all over the place. Sounds like they are acting 100 percent in the interest of their constituents.

Civics aside and focusing on politics, I like the way that the right-wing intelligentsia of the FOFC is jumping all over these, but I have heard nary a word about the $50 million campaign ad that Bush filmed on the aircraft carrier. Surprise.

If you are offended and shocked by what the Texas Democrats are doing, then I don't think you truly understand how are republic works.

[sabotai]

Has anyone seen a map of what the republicans want to do with the redistricting? I mean, and this is a HUGE what if, but what if the republicans are trying to do as someone suggested in this thread and actually have districts that do not look like spaghetti...

[CamEdwards]

kcchief,

You say this is not illegal, yet the entire reason the Dems left Texas and fled to Oklahoma is because they knew they'd be arrested if they were caught in the state. This most certainly IS illegal. Now, you can call it civil disobedience if you like, but it's not legal.

As to the carrier landing, I think the reason the "right wing intelligentsia" haven't commented on it here is because this is a thread for the Dems in Texas. Why not start a thread about the landing and the political flap and see what happens.

/reasonable

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by kcchief19
If you are offended and shocked by what the Texas Democrats are doing, then I don't think you truly understand how are republic works.

Excuse me? And you are ... Thomas Jefferson?

Shocked by it? No, I'm not shocked by it in the least. Given the pathetic state of the Democratic Party of Georgia, I'm not the least bit shocked that other states have similar problems.

Offended? That's a different story. I'm offended by people who willfully break the law en masse. And that's what's happening in Texas right now. Or should I say in Oklahoma?

And I'm even more offended by people who try to defend their actions and then accuse those who actually support following the frickin' law of not knowing "how (a) republic works". Offended, but not shocked by it.

Let me tell you something, I spent most of my life as not only a Democrat but as a "yellow-dog" Democrat. I know more than a fair share about how the party works and what it has become. And I'd bet a reasonable amount that I've spent more time and money working with Democratic campaigns and campaigners than the large majority of the vocal Dems on this forum.

{deleted remainder of post, fuck it, it's just a msg board}

[CamEdwards]

I just want to state on the record that I'm ashamed and offended that Oklahoma's Legislature passed a resolution supporting these lawbreakers. I'm also offended and ashamed that our governor extended an invitation for them to visit our capitol. I wonder how many other lawbreakers will receive the same invitation.

[Senator]

Maybe you guys can pass some legislation while they are up there.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
I just want to state on the record that I'm ashamed and offended that Oklahoma's Legislature passed a resolution supporting these lawbreakers. I'm also offended and ashamed that our governor extended an invitation for them to visit our capitol. I wonder how many other lawbreakers will receive the same invitation.

I've never been to OK, but you guys have some serious political issues. Carroll Fisher, the OK Insurance Commissioner, has been repeatedly cited by the ethics commission for various violations - including cajoling hospital and doctor staffs to put "Friends of Fisher" campaign stickers on every claim form they file - yet he was just re-elected. Oh, and he also used his position as Insurance Commissioner to force Allstate to provide him with the personnel file of his Republican opponent in last year's election, who used to be (or still is?) an Allstate agent. He got cited by the ethics commission for that one, as well.

[Easy Mac]

Originally posted by stkelly52
i don't like it because I see it as a possible new kind of veto. There is no state that I know of that has a super majority. I could see this becoming common place now, and I think that it is just wrong.

Should the state be redistrited, I have no idea, but this is an illegal way to go about fighting it. They just as easily could have had a fillabuster and fit in with the curent laws.

This is what I picked up from a Texas website:

"FILIBUSTER: In Texas, a filibuster is allowed only in the Senate. A filibuster occurs when one senator holds the floor through talking or long speeches, without sitting down or leaving the vicinity of the senator's desk. Although the primary purpose of a filibuster is usually to kill a bill, sometimes this is also done to reach a compromise or to delay a vote as long as possible. "

So they coudln't do a filibuster, correct. I think both sides are doing bullshit political games. The Rep. for tying up the house with this shit, when its obvious they should actually be pursuing something worthwhile. And the Dems. for skipping town, b/c in theory they could be missing wothwhile bills (though given the fight over this one, I doubt anything productive would occur for a while).

Cam,

My earlier argument. The first 3 statements were a logical basis for why they are doing what they are doing. My last statement was my personal opinion of what was going on. The first 3 were inteded to be separate.

[Ryche]

Has anyone seen a map of what the republicans want to do with the redistricting? I mean, and this is a HUGE what if, but what if the republicans are trying to do as someone suggested in this thread and actually have districts that do not look like spaghetti...

Nope, the proposed districts do some fun twists and turns, especially in the large cities. It's being proposed for purely political reasons. The Republicans were really counting on gaining at least a couple more seats in Texas.

The only thing close to a justification I have heard is that the new map would better depict the Republican dominance in Texas. That's a veiled accusation that the judges who drew the lines did some political gerrymandering. It's quite possible they did, but if this goes to court, such a stance won't help the Republicans.

They should have won the legislature two years earlier if they wanted their plan. That's why parties throw so much money into elections before redistricting. Those are the most important elections each decade. If the Republicans do pass their plan, watch out, because probably every single state controlled by one party will bring in a new redistricting plan to strengthen their grip.

[Subby]

Regardless of where you come down on the issue, I think the Dems' gambit was brilliant in execution...