ACC/Big East/Miami Revisited

[VPI97]

I don't know about the TV contract's clauses, but I'm sure a change in conference membership would have been addressed. As for the remaining schools pursuing legal action against any that leave, that would be impossible. Every school that is in the Big East (as well as other conferences) has a right to leave the conference...they just have to pay an exit fee that is negoiated when they joined. I believe Miami's buy out is $1 million if they are the first to leave the conference...$0 if they leave after someone (i.e. it's obvious the conference is falling apart).

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by VPI97
I don't know about the TV contract's clauses, but I'm sure a change in conference membership would have been addressed. As for the remaining schools pursuing legal action against any that leave, that would be impossible. Every school that is in the Big East (as well as other conferences) has a right to leave the conference...they just have to pay an exit fee that is negoiated when they joined. I believe Miami's buy out is $1 million if they are the first to leave the conference...$0 if they leave after someone (i.e. it's obvious the conference is falling apart).

Yeah I believe that UMBC was on the hook for 350,000$ to leave the NEC, but they negoiated it down. 1 million is nothing - I'm suprised the number is that low.

[digamma]

Evidently it is just about a done deal...
Expansion passes in the ACC.

[GrantDawg]

Now the fun begins! What will the conferences look like when it is all over?

[cthomer5000]

big east = shit

[Radii]

Here's my guess, based on the biggest football and basketball rivalries needing to remain in tact, and the guess that the 4 North Carolina schools will be split:

ACC South:

Miami
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Duke
North Carolina

ACC North:

Syracuse
Virginia
Boston College/Virginia Tech
Maryland
NC State
Wake Forest

The other possiblity I would see if Duke/UNC in the North and NC State/Wake in the south but I think that seems unlikely as NC State is a budding football power, I would think they would be separate from FSU/Miami.

[Radii]

Dola,

I cna't even begin to guess what happens to the Big East. Do they go back to just being a basketball conference leaving the football teams out on their own? The Big 10 has come out and said it's not interested in a 12th team, and while I'm not sure I believe that, I do think they're probably holding out long term for Notre Dame and will not jump to pick up a Va Tech/BC/Pitt just because they could.

[digamma]

The division split could be interesting.

One of the more intriguing rumors around, which would make very little sense from a competitive perspective, but could be the result of a political concession is to have an "Old ACC" division consisting of the four NC schools, UVA and Maryland and the other division consisting of GT, FSU, Clemson and the three newcomers. The FSU division would be impossible in football, but the Old ACC would be a killer in basketball.

Among the reasons I've read floated for this one are Maryland and UVA wanting to play UNC twice a year in basketball. FSU wanting to be with Miami. Miami wanting to be with Syracuse. Georgia Tech and Clemson wanting to remain together.

Whoever ends up in the FSU/Miami division is going to have a tough time making it to championship games.

[Ragone]

And what about the Big East.. i have heard Penn state wants out of the big 10.. and Louisville has never been happy with the conf usa mega conference.. those would be two nice additions. and with Uconn joining in place of temple.. makes it a nice basketball conference. who knows

[Wolfpack]

I wouldn't want that kind of split. Sentimentality is nice, but if we're bringing so many new teams in at once, we need them to be intermingled with old blood as much as possible. The last thing we need is the conference pulled apart between "old" and "new" members. Having old members mixed with new in the divisions will make it less certain that one division (I'm thinking specifically of the "new" division) would be tempted to pick up stakes and form a new league with another set of teams. The teams in the "new" division aside from Clemson would all be teams that have been in the ACC less than 25 years and probably wouldn't have the same loyalty to the league as the old guard does. A geographic split makes better sense in this regard as it provides a mix of the two groups. I do think that in spite of the growth of NC State in football, it'd be better for the league as a whole for them and Wake to go into the South Division. Duke and UNC would be great draws in annual games at the new northeast schools in basketball, much better than going to Miami, I would think.

If it were split in the way I'm describing, from a football standpoint FSU and Miami would probably be the annual winners in the South, though I think others may be able to break that hold once in a while, especially with FSU's recent decline from their absurdly high perch. In the North, just about any team except Duke could conceivably win a division title given the right circumstances. They'll probably get toasted in the CG by the South winner, but then again upsets have happened in the title game before.

In basketball, the South is the weaker division where again most teams would have a shot to win the division in a given year, though the likeliest winners will be NC State and Wake Forest, perhaps with any of the other four getting the gold about every other year. Up North, it will be brutal. BC is a solid, respectable team and they and UVa will be DFL in this division if trends hold. Syracuse, Maryland, UNC, and Duke. That is just nasty, nasty, nasty. I'm glad the Pack would be in the South under my arrangement.

As for the Big East, regardless of whether ACC expansion is successful, it will not survive much past 2004 in its present form. If it does happen that the ACC goes up by three, I can easily envision Notre Dame in the catbird seat as the Big East comes hat in hand, begging them to join, giving in to pretty much any demand the Irish make to get the football team in the league. If ND doesn't come, the basketball/football split will likely come to pass and the football members will be scrambling to dig up at least three new members to keep going, while the basketball teams try to pick up some private schools in the northeast and midwest to form a new basketball only league as the Big East was originally (in this case, who gets the name "Big East"? I've read something where the football and basketball sides would split independently of one another and something called the "Big East Coalition" would be formed, but that's a rather silly idea, IMO).

[Dr. Sak]

Originally posted by Ragone
And what about the Big East.. i have heard Penn state wants out of the big 10.. and Louisville has never been happy with the conf usa mega conference.. those would be two nice additions. and with Uconn joining in place of temple.. makes it a nice basketball conference. who knows

I promise you Penn State will not leave the Big Ten. Although it has not done up to standards in football, the rest of their sports are doing quite well.

[General Mike]

If I'm the Big East, right now I break out the big check book, and call up Marshall, Louisville and Penn State. If Penn State doesn't want to come Cincinnati would be my fall back.

A Basketball breakdown would be as follows:

East Division
UConn
Villanova
Providence
St Johns
Seton Hall
Rutgers
Georgetown

West
Louisville
Penn State
Notre Dame
West Virgina
Marshall
Va Tech
Pittsburgh

Commisioner Tranghese needs to be proactive and get the replacement teams lined up right now. Louisville is a perfect fit for the basketball conference, and Marshall's football program is on Syracuse's level at this point.

[henry296]

Did anyone else see Jim Boeheim on ESPN last night. He seemed very much opposed to moving to the ACC. I will say his comments reminded me a lot of the earlier Coach K and Gary Williams thoughts on ACC expansion.

You might see Miami, VT, and BC make the move. I my mind that weakens whatever conference emerges from the former Big East Football Conference.

I have a hunch that for football we might see 5 12 team conferences and the Pac-10. This would basically elevate the standing of Conference USA since they would merge with the Big East.

I still think the biggest Wild Card is Notre Dame. Even if the football team stays independent, they need to be in all sports league with their basketball team. However, if they don't join a football conference, it would mean a 13 team basketball conference if the conference they join wants to be a 12 team football league.

Todd

[Samdari]

Well, Todd, I certainly hope you don't think that SU will turn down a bid to the ACC because Boeheim is unhappy. His opinion is irrelevant in the whole thing. SU has made one thing abundantly clear: they are going to be in a conference with Miami. Miami won't go without SU, and SU will follow Miami anywhere.

There are also rumors that two of the yes votes had contingencies attached. Wake required that they be in the same division with the other Carolina schools, and UVA required that Va Tech be part of the expansion.

Because of some parts that don't seem to fit, I am not sure this is a done deal. Which 3 of the 4 possible schools get absorbed could easily break the whole thing apart.

[henry296]

Samdari,

I agree with you that coaches have little to no say in the final decision. I was curious what the Syracuse fans on the board thought.

Interesting to me is the connection that Syracuse and Miami have. As a Big East fan, I never really thought of them as rivals within the conference. Plus, they are probably the two furthest teams apart in terms of miles.

It will be a very intriguing summer and as a fan of teams in both conferences I will be very interested in the outcome.

Todd

[Marmel]

Syracuse and Miami have a football rivalry, within the Big East. Obviously, Miami has other rivals ni their own state, but a few years ago when SU football was really good, these teams hated each other.

That, has nothing to do with their partnership. I don't know all the details either, but syracuse was one of the big supporters of bringing Miami into the Big East in the first place. SU did a lot of 'bullying' to the basketball only schools to get Miami in.

Further, Shalala is very, very good friends with somebody at SU (the Athletic Director, the Chancellor, I don't remember exactly who)......I believe they worked together at wisconsin (again, I have very little memory of the situation). I am also quite sure Shalala is a syracuse graduate, and has a lot of loyalty to the school.


As a SU fan, I don't want to see this happen. I despise the ACC, and it is not a good fit for Syracuse at all. However, if Miami is leaving, Syracuse must follow to avoid ending up in a Conf USA-like conference.

Ideally, the Big East would break off from the basketball only schools and be able to pull in teams from the following list: Penn St (who lobbied HARD to join the Big East years ago, but once agani the basketball schools screwed it over), Notre Dame, Louisville, Cincinnati, East Carolina, CFU, Marshall

Syracuse is a North East school, and really needs a conference with its roots in the north east, but with the way college atheltics is these days, your conference MUST branch out of its natural territory to be able to lure recruits. the best thing that ever happened to SU football was adding Miami, as we now have an outlet into Florida. No, they don't get the top Florida talent, but they do cherry pick some guys down there (a teammate of huve's comes to mind immediatly).

[Marmel]

dola....

If the move was to take place, the new ACC football would really be no better than the current Big East Football, so in that regard, it is a wash.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by henry296

Interesting to me is the connection that Syracuse and Miami have. As a Big East fan, I never really thought of them as rivals within the conference. Plus, they are probably the two furthest teams apart in terms of miles.

Syracuse (or BC for that matter) doesn't really appeal to me from a geographical standpoint for the ACC. Shouldn't be anything above the Mason Dixon line (Syracuse isn't too close to the Atlantic coast anyway). But I guess they would have to take somebody.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by cuervo72
Syracuse (or BC for that matter) doesn't really appeal to me from a geographical standpoint for the ACC. Shouldn't be anything above the Mason Dixon line (Syracuse isn't too close to the Atlantic coast anyway). But I guess they would have to take somebody.

I agree completely. Adding Syracuse takes it from being a southern conference to ranging all the way up the East coast. From a geographical standpoint it makes very little sense. If you want to expand, why not look for 3 more local schools to add and improve conference depth, rather than making it top-heavy.

[henry296]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
I agree completely. Adding Syracuse takes it from being a southern conference to ranging all the way up the East coast. From a geographical standpoint it makes very little sense. If you want to expand, why not look for 3 more local schools to add and improve conference depth, rather than making it top-heavy.

I agree with that too. This is why I think Virginia Tech is a very logical addition.

Todd

[digamma]

Originally posted by Marmel

If the move was to take place, the new ACC football would really be no better than the current Big East Football, so in that regard, it is a wash.

You are joking, right?

If it does happen and the division split goes along the lines of old ACC and everyone else. The everyone else division would immediately, imho, rival either of the Big 12 divisions, as being the best division of a conference in college football. You would have two elite teams in Miami and FSU, and you would not have a gimme game in the bunch--all of Syracuse, BC, Clemson and Georgia Tech have been in and out of the top 25 in the last 5-10 years. There is not a Baylor, Vanderbilt or Kansas to be found. The other division would be a different story, with Duke and Wake usually providing a couple of easy wins, but overall, I think this would make the ACC a top 3 football conference.

[Samdari]

Well, I've got to disagree with Marmel a bit on this. I think the Big East, as it is curently configured, sucks. The 14 team basketball conference sucks, with the dredges brought in to fill out the football league dropping the quality. It also spreads the NCAA bids out too far. Notice when the heads talk about bids, they only ever talk about number. They compare the Big East getting 4 bids (fromm 14 teams) and the ACC getting 4 bids (with 9 teams) and say they got the same number of bids. To me, they absolutely did not. That says 28% of the Big East but 45% of the ACC is tourney worthy.

And the worst part is the separation of basketball schools vs football schools thing. I loved the original Big East, when it was nine teams, but ever since they expanded, they have easily been the worst football conference, and the quality of basketball has dropped markedly. I see this as nothing but a good thing - for the Big East schools which get to join the ACC. One thing that has become very clear in this process is that the Big East's current structure, with some basketball only schools, and some football and basketball schools, WILL cease to exist in the next few years. I just don't see a situation more advantageous to the Cuse than being in the ACC with Miami and Fl ST in football, and Duke/UNC/Maryland in hoops.

As far as the expanded ACC not being better than the current Big East in football, I would disagree strongly. The top 3 are slightly better in the new ACC, 4-7 are WAY better in the ACC, and the Big East is the only conference with a football program bad enough to rival Duke.

You are right in that Shalala is an SU grad. I believe she is close with the president and AD of SU. The ADs at the two schools are also supposedly very good friends.

[MrBug708]

Here is what needs to happen

Virginia Tech to the SEC
Arkansas to the Big-12
Pitt to the Big-10
Colorado and CSU to the PAC-10

Perfect Harmony

[Marmel]

I think you guys missed my point. You asked for a Syracuse/Big East fan perspective.

What does Miami gain by going ACC? they have just played in 2 consecutive Nat'l Championship games.

What does syracuse and boston gain in football? A game with FSU is about all.


What do these teams gain in basketball? Nothing, but maybe every other year the Carrier Dome will break an attendance record when Duke or UNC comes up to play. The rest of the time, the attendance will dip as FSU, Clemson, and Virginia come up every year instead of G'Town, UConn, Villanova, Pitt and Notre Dame.

This is a fan perspective. I know the driving force is money, and I know the 14 team big east conference sucks, that is why I said they need to dump the hoops only schools and pull in a few decent football programs.

One of these conferences is going to sink, I would prefer it to be the ACC.

[Ksyrup]

I thinnk the ACC is looking to grab some of the NE college football fans, and from that perspective, I think adding Syracuse and BC is a smart move. Instead of being a pigeon-holed as a Southern conference, they would truly become the "Atlantic Coast Conference." Good for marketing, although admittedly, college football plays second fiddle to the NFL in the North - at least compared to how Southerners treat college football.

I'm all for Miami joining. From FSU's perspective, the only thing they lose is the nearly automatic right to the conference championship on a yearly basis. And despite what Spurrier used to say, winning the conference championship ain't worth dick. If FSU and Miami remain top 10 teams (or if FSU gets back into the top 10!), then whichever one of them wins the early season game between them, wins the division and plays an inferior team for the championship to guarantee a BCS bid. The other finishes with 1 or maybe 2 losses and still competes for a BCS bid. Other than the conference champ title, not much changes for FSU in that regard.

In baseball, I think it will be great, as both teams are top 10. And FSU and Miami already play a home-and-home series every year, so again, not much difference.

In basketball, to the extent it even matters here, it'll be Leonard Hamilton against the team that put him on the coaching map. A nice kick to the rivarly. And adding Syracuse to the basketball conference ain't bad, either!

[Marmel]

Originally posted by digamma
You are joking, right?

You would have two elite teams in Miami and FSU, and you would not have a gimme game in the bunch--all of Syracuse, BC, Clemson and Georgia Tech have been in and out of the top 25 in the last 5-10 years. There is not a Baylor, Vanderbilt or Kansas to be found. The other division would be a different story, with Duke and Wake usually providing a couple of easy wins, but overall, I think this would make the ACC a top 3 football conference.

No joke. Virginia Tech has been close to the level of FSU for the past couple years. not there yet, obviously, and VTech will probably take a step down once Beamer leaves. Adv: ACC

Clemson and Georgia Tech = Pitt and WVU. Both of these teams are in and out of the top 25, and are really on the move up, especially Pitt with their new facilities.

Syracuse and BC are the common teams in both scenarios.

So the advantage works out to be FSU over VTech, and who knows where FSU will be prestige wise in 5 years.

If the Big East keeps Miami, SU and BC, and pulls in Louisville and Cincinnati (or even a Penn St. or somehow a Notre Dame), you are looking at a better football confernce than the new ACC.

I really just don't see that big of a difference. The reason ACC wants to expand is because they are not sold on FSU keeping their BCS status right now. What is the rule? If your BCS team is not nationally competative for 3-5 year you lose your BCS stauts. something like that. the ACC is worried, and that is why they are thinking of expanding.


Edited to add: Not to be overlooked is the millions upon millions of dollars UConn has pumped into its football program. A brnad new stadium opens this year, and I don't think anybody will argue the fact that UConn will be in a Bowl game in about 5 years, and from then on be fairly competative, at least on a Syracuse, Clemson, Virginia level. Uconn has the fan support and an endless stream of money to pump into their program. they have shown in the past that if they want to be successful at a sport, they will be. (And I despise UConn, but have to give them their props).

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Samdari
and the Big East is the only conference with a football program bad enough to rival Duke.

you'd better not be talking about who I think you're talking about .....

[Bee]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
you'd better not be talking about who I think you're talking about .....

Is that a scarlet smiley face?

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Bee
Is that a scarlet smiley face?

yes. it's as happy as we get all football season. this is the shock of winning a game: :o

[MrBug708]

That's what Fritz looks like

[Buzzbee]

Ok, the ACC has voted to expand by 3 teams. BUT, there are 4 teams listed as possible. Miami is obviously the lynchpin and I think it is pretty much a given that if the ACC expands, it will depend on whether or not Miami decides to come over. So, assuming Miami jumps, who will be the other two teams? From what I've read here it seems like Miami and SU are somewhat tied together. Is that really true, or just rumor? Also, I've heard that Virginia voted yes as long as VT is one of the teams invited. If that is the case, then it looks like BC would be the odd school out.

However, a lot of the discussion seems to be centered around UM, SU & BC. If UM and SU are "tied" together, should the 3rd team be BC or VT and why?

For football, VT isn't a perennial powerhouse, but they have developed into a consistently good team. BC is up and down like the Hattrick server. Edge VT.

For basketball I can't really recall hearing about VT having a good team. Whereas BC usually fields a pretty competitive team (as far as I'm aware). Edge BC

For other sports does anyone know how BC and VT rate? Oh, wait. Never mind. That doesn't matter anyway.

Ok, next would be geographics/divisional alignment. VT gives you the in-state rivalry with Virginina and is geographically closer to the other ACC schools. In terms of divisional alignment, VT and BC are pretty interchangeable. If it is BC, it gives you access to a much larger market and also prevents SU from being an isolated northern member of the ACC.

Academically BC gives you a greater reputa...oh. Never mind. Academics doesn't matter.

So, who's it gonna be? VT or BC? I'm thinking VT because BC doesn't have an ACC partner to stick up for them. VT does.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally posted by Buzzbee
If it is BC, it gives you access to a much larger market

I think this is all BC needs going for it. If the ACC is doing this for the money, it may as well do it all out. Get the biggest TV markets that it can.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
you'd better not be talking about who I think you're talking about .....

Temple, I meant Temple. And then when UConn joins, they will step right in for Temple.

[Swaggs]

Apparently Big East President Mike Tranghese will try like hell this weekend to get Miami (et. al.) to stay, by jettisoning the basketball-only schools and trying to pick up some of the following teams:

--Maryland
--Louisville
--Cincinnati
--Penn State
--Notre Dame
--East Carolina
--Marshall
--Central Florida
--South Florida
--retain Temple

In this scenario, the Big East move to a 12 team conference and would have its own championship game. I don't see Penn State or Notre Dame joining, but adding Maryland, Cincy, and Louisville to the basketball conference would be a boon, and picking up one of the Florida schools or ECU and putting them into Miami's division would lessen Miami's travel cost (which is apparently one of their concerns).

Probably a pipe dream, but I would be happy to see it.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by Samdari
Temple, I meant Temple. And then when UConn joins, they will step right in for Temple.

Yeah, Temple won a lot of games on the road in the Big XII last year.

UConn had Boston College beat on the road opening weekend, BC was lucky that UConn turned it over twice in the red zone before losing by 3.

They have a brand new stadium that until the Big East fell apart was going to be sold out on a season ticket base.

As a diehard UConn fan (I've missed about 3 home games in 7 years) here are my hopes and dreams.

1. Dump the basketball only schools. GTown, Nova, Providence, St. John's... we'll miss you.

2. Beg Pitt not to leave.

3. Beg Virginia Tech not to leave.

4. Add Louisville, Marshall, Cincinnati, Central Florida and South Florida.

So you've got:
UConn
Pitt
WVU
Va Tech
Rutgers
Louisville
Marshall
Cincinnati
Central Florida
South Florida


That's probably going to end up being the top non-BCS football conference. It also has some very good basketball teams. If you wanted to improve the basketball conference add Temple and Memphis to get to 12.

I imagine there are some pretty pissed off folks in Connecticut. I know I had to pay for my 2005 tickets up front just to keep my priority points that I've build up over the years. The invoices for 2003 go out this month. I'm not personally that mad, just disappointed. I learned from the Whalers move to North Carolina, and the way the Patriots used Hartford that bad things just happen here, I've come to expect them.

[Radii]

Am I the only one who is convinced NC State is on the verge of becoming a national football power? They're not even being named in the football discussion

Keep in mind, I don't give a shit about football. I wouldn't mind seeing Syracuse join because of what they would add for basketball but eh. My fans perspective is still kick out florida state and lets put the ACC back the way it belongs, having the highest concentration of top level basketball every single year of any conference.

[Craptacular]

Originally posted by Marmel

Further, Shalala is very, very good friends with somebody at SU (the Athletic Director, the Chancellor, I don't remember exactly who)......I believe they worked together at wisconsin (again, I have very little memory of the situation). I am also quite sure Shalala is a syracuse graduate, and has a lot of loyalty to the school.

Shalala was Chancellor at UW when current Syracuse Chancellor Kenneth Shaw was the President of the UW System. Shalala has a Masters and PhD from Syracuse.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by Radii
Am I the only one who is convinced NC State is on the verge of becoming a national football power? They're not even being named in the football discussion

They will have to be able to replace Rivers after this year. We'll see what happens when they head up to Columbus in September.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Radii
Am I the only one who is convinced NC State is on the verge of becoming a national football power?

Yes

[Radii]

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/s/2003/0514/1553593.html

A bunch of interesting scenarios there. I was going to say "unlikely scenarios" but really things could just get totally crazy at this point. The only one of the scenarios that was negative for the ACC was the Big East trying to poach FSU and Maryland. I can't believe Maryland would consider leaving the ACC (and neither could Andy Katz based on an article of his earlier today also).

Most scenarios seem to have the Big East surviving and the big loser in the end being Conference USA.

[Ksyrup]

I was just about to post that. There's no way that FSU would leave a southern-dominated conference for the Big East. College football is not the same in Florida as it is up North. I just don't see FSU being comfortable with playing those teams and their less-than-southern-rabidness fans.

As for Maryland - eh. I don't know much about them, other than until 2 years ago, they looked like Wake Forest on FSU's schedule. Would their basketball program hurt if it didn't have to play in such a tough conference? I wouldn't care one way or the other if they were in the ACC.

[GrantDawg]

I like this one:

Penn State saves the Big East
ACC: Keeps nine current members and adds Miami, Boston College plus either Syracuse or Virginia Tech.
Big East: Adds Penn State, Louisville, Cincinnati
Big Ten: Goes back to 10 teams
Big 12: Unaffected.
What it means: Penn State keeps the Big East respectable and helps it hold on to its automatic BCS bid. This also makes the Nittany Lions the big fish in a small pond (no offense to either Syracuse, BC, or Va. Tech) and has a much easier road to the BCS. The Big Ten actually lives up to its name and C-USA is again left scrambling to fill some holes.

But not as much as I like this one:

Another Big 12 -- Take III
ACC: Keeps nine current members and adds Miami, Boston College plus either Syracuse or Virginia Tech.
Big East: Keeps football playing schools Connecticut, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Temple, Syracuse/Virginia Tech and West Virginia and adds Cincinnati, Louisville, Marshall, Memphis and two of the following three: East Carolina, South Florida or UCF.
Big Ten: Adds Notre Dame.
Big 12: Unaffected.
What it means: Not wanting to let the ACC steal all the spotlight, the Big Ten is now as powerful as any conference in the country after adding the Irish and is also deep enough now to have a conference championship game. This also possibly puts pressure on the Pac-10 to add two more teams (San Diego State? UNLV? BYU? Utah?) to be able to have a conference title game, since they'd be the only conference with an automatic BCS bid that wouldn't have a championship game.


I want Notre Dame in a conference, and the Big Ten should have twelve teams.

[Ksyrup]

I think the common denominator in all of this is that Conference USA is about to become Conference History or Conference Irrelevant.

[Anrhydeddu]

...or a Conference With A Stupid Generic Name

Folks laughed at me for predicting three (okay, maybe five) mega-conferences. ACC and SEC wiill take care of the East Coast (Big East becomes irrelevant), Big 10+ and Big 12 takes care of the Midwest and Pac10+ gets the West. Why do you need more? Heck, it could really become four mega-conferences with 16 teams each.

[cthomer5000]

I now at least think there's a glimmer of hope the Big East can keep itself intact. If they plead with Syracuse & Miami, and bring in enough teams to move to 12 with 2 divisions and a conference title game... why couldn't they stay intact?

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
I think the common denominator in all of this is that Conference USA is about to become Conference History or Conference Irrelevant.

It isn't now?

How about "Conference Stepping Stone" because it is great place for up and coming programs to make a name. You can also look at it this way, once all the major conferences reach 12 (where they should be), then Conference USA will continue to get stronger and eventually become a powerhouse. I can see a day when MTSU and Southern Miss will become top ten programs.

[Butter]

As a U. Dayton fan, I would love to see a Catholic League formed, but realistically, I think Notre Dame will ultimately end up in the Big Ten, and the Big East will have to raid C-USA to stay alive.

[Ksyrup]

True. If you think about it, FSU was an "up and comer" from the Metro Conference, which is essentially a revamped C-USA.

[Radii]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
As for Maryland - eh. I don't know much about them, other than until 2 years ago, they looked like Wake Forest on FSU's schedule. Would their basketball program hurt if it didn't have to play in such a tough conference? I wouldn't care one way or the other if they were in the ACC.

I think that Maryland places an extremely high value on the home-and-home with Duke and UNC every year. Even if they got a home-and-home with Georgetown every year I don't think it would make up for that. They're a charter member of the ACC too right? They're not leaving I don't think.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
It isn't now?

How about "Conference Stepping Stone" because it is great place for up and coming programs to make a name. You can also look at it this way, once all the major conferences reach 12 (where they should be), then Conference USA will continue to get stronger and eventually become a powerhouse. I can see a day when MTSU and Southern Miss will become top ten programs.

I agree. I think 12 is the breaking point for any conference (in football). It just gets ridiculous to go beyond that. EIther you wouldn't have any out-of-conference games or you wouldn't play some of your fellow conference members for 3 years.