Math textbook political correctness, gone 10 2/3 times overboard

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by molson

I think we teach children something other than multi-culturalism when we artificially ensure that there's token representation of every group. We're teaching them that certain groups can't stand up on their own, without this boosting up by the majority.

Hmmm. I think I disagree with this.

The more I think about it, the more I appreciate the increased presence of minorities in commercials/textbooks/etc.

The area I grew up in and went to school in was nearly entirely WASP. As I very rarely ventured too far away when I was growing up, I had no idea how multicultural my country was even two decades ago. The few Asian kids in my school got treated pretty badly because of this I think.

Nowadays people are more familiar with other races through TV, school, etc., and I think the various races tend to get along with each other far better in the school years - you don't neccessarily see all the Asian kids hanging together, and all the African kids hanging together, etc.

I don't attribute that entirely to TV commercials and the like, and of course there are still racist little prats out there, but things are much better in Sydney now than they were a decade ago when it comes to racial tolerance, and I know that our schools begun to introduce us to multiculturalism when I was still a student. Looks like it is working.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Hmmm. I think I disagree with this.

The more I think about it, the more I appreciate the increased presence of minorities in commercials/textbooks/etc.

The area I grew up in and went to school in was nearly entirely WASP. As I very rarely ventured too far away when I was growing up, I had no idea how multicultural my country was even two decades ago. The few Asian kids in my school got treated pretty badly because of this I think.

Nowadays people are more familiar with other races through TV, school, etc., and I think the various races tend to get along with each other far better in the school years - you don't neccessarily see all the Asian kids hanging together, and all the African kids hanging together, etc.

I don't attribute that entirely to TV commercials and the like, and of course there are still racist little prats out there, but things are much better in Sydney now than they were a decade ago when it comes to racial tolerance, and I know that our schools begun to introduce us to multiculturalism when I was still a student. Looks like it is working.

Good points.

Being exposed to real multiculturalism is a good thing, there's just something about the lazy, obviously token and forced representation you usually see. There's "real" Asian culture, and there's there's white people plopping an Asian face all over a textbook. Schools should make an effort to expose kids to more of the former (through films, actual study of the culture, etc), and not feel good about themselves just because they have the latter.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by molson

There's "real" Asian culture, and there's there's white people plopping an Asian face all over a textbook. Schools should make an effort to expose kids to more of the former, and not feel good about themselves just because they have the latter.

Definately agree 110%. My school's effort sat probably somewhere in the middle, but I'll give them points for trying. It's probably better today.

[stevew]

If it was pc they would have a unit on calculating your carbon footprint or a lesson on how to figure out compounded interest on the value of stolen sacred tribe lands.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

If it was pc they would have a unit on calculating your carbon footprint or a lesson on how to figure out compounded interest on the value of stolen sacred tribe lands.

Don't go giving anybody ideas...

[ISiddiqui]

Hell, since Asians are good at math, it makes sense that they change everyone in a math book to Asians...


.. what?

[astrosfan64]

I would like to apologize to the world for being white.

I believe that is what white people are supposed to say and do these days, so we aren't considered arogant, racist, mean, overbearing, angry, presumtious etc...

I will keep my head down and demand that all references to white names be stricken from all teaching and/or reading material.

I will not name my kids any "white" names. My kids will have names from all other cultures, so maybe the world will be kinder to my children.

Again, I am sorry for this.

Have a nice day.



On a serious note, I wonder how many school books in China, Japan, India, Egypt, Congo, have "wasp" names in them? I believe much of Europe is getting PC like the US, just wondering about these other countries.

[Mustang]

All I know is that when Sukey, Takara, Susan and Barbara all meet, they will all have something in common.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Mustang

All I know is that when Sukey, Takara, Susan and Barbara all meet, they will all have something in common.

LOL excellent post.

[Neon_Chaos]

If people get worked up over such a small thing as a name in a math textbook that will most likely be glanced at by a kid for about a minute, I shudder to think what else people will get mad about.

Racism = Fail.

[sabotai]

I present to you, Japanese culture.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Sukey is a first name. Sukay is a last name. At some point during the thread, the spelling got goofed, but it is Sukey in the first post.

So what you are saying is someone out there could have the name Sukey Sukay?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I shudder to think what else people will get mad about.

Trust me, you don't really want to know. It would take waaaaaay longer than either of us have to even scratch the surface.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

If people get worked up over such a small thing as a name in a math textbook that will most likely be glanced at by a kid for about a minute, I shudder to think what else people will get mad about.

Racism = Fail.

Of course, the flip side is for all those people who aren't mad at this book, the book=fail for changing the names.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm a WP

Although according to Wiki's article, Germans are getting counted towards the "AS" part in modern verbage. However, I'm only 1/4 German while I'm 1/4 Italian and 1/2 Lithuanian. So I'm more than half non-AS.

SI

Eh, that would make sense, wouldn't it? Given that the Saxons came from Saxony and the Anglo refers to the Angles from Angeln.

Basically, all parts of the term Anglo Saxon refer to people that originally came from Germany.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

So what you are saying is someone out there could have the name Sukey Sukay?

They got people named Fuk Mi, so I'm sure it's possible.

[Dr. Sak]

Fook Yu

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think the bolded part sounds a lot like empty election year rhetoric- c'mon "it's not too much to ask that our fellow taxpayers". But that aside, no question was answered. And I pose this not just to you but anyone.

Also, what do you mean by "until we have numbers"? What I posted above are US census estimates for 2008

SI

By numbers I meant numbers of pictures in these books. I don't have anywhere near enough evidence to know what percentages different races/cultures are being represented, and like I said, I'm not going to go around demanding perfectly equal representation. Taking this into a "what's too much" argument has very little to do with saying there should be some representation.

As to the taxpayer line, no it isn't an election rhetoric. We live in a society where who pays matters quite a bit. I think that their tax dollars entitle them to some level of representation in materials paid for by the government.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Of course, the flip side is for all those people who aren't mad at this book, the book=fail for changing the names.

If this were a three-sided coin: publishing companies FTW, for finding a way to frequently update their textbooks (keeping the staff employed and consequently selling more books)...

[lurker]

I agree with panerd and I'm Asian, so there's no deep-seated racial bias there. I grew up in a city that was once named the whitest in America and whenever I'd see these token inclusions in my textbooks, I'd always feel awkward. It was just so out of place with the way society was, or at least appeared to me then. When it's *so* far removed from reality that over half the names were ethnic, I don't think it changes anyone's views. It just resulted in more kids getting annoyed at having to pronounce these names, and I'd always feel like they were all looking at me whenever they'd struggle over the names. It actually made me feel like more of an outsider.

And as a math person, I have a big problem with reissuing the textbooks just to change something that has nothing to do with math.

[MJ4H]

i actually have some black friends too so im not racist fo sho

[lurker]

Clever. That's exactly the same point I was making by mentioning I'm Asian. It's not at all that lots of people implied only racist white people would have a problem with these inclusions.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by molson

Being exposed to real multiculturalism is a good thing, there's just something about the lazy, obviously token and forced representation you usually see. There's "real" Asian culture, and there's there's white people plopping an Asian face all over a textbook.

Someone please tell the white people in charge of text books that they need to stop!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Please pardon my language here, but I'm angry.

I ain't seen one motherfucking person in a fucking math textbook named "Pumpy" in my entire damn fucking life, and I'm pretty fucking sick of it.

Oh, wait, there was that one Asian Pumpy in my trig book. Never mind.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Seriously, no one but me busted out laughing at "Joe Joe the African Tribesman?"

It was very a subtle part of the post showing that I can change his name to make his post "cultural", unfortunatly only a very small audience appreciated the joke. (Maybe the jungle tribe distracted everyone)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by panerd

It was very a subtle part of the post showing that I can change his name to make his post "cultural", unfortunatly only a very small audience appreciated the joke. (Maybe the jungle tribe distracted everyone)

I'm guilty of being distracted by the jungle tribe. Now that I see the "Jo Jo" thing, I'm dying laughing, too.

[JediKooter]

I have to admit, most of the Asian people I've known, have western names, unless they actually immigrated to America. When I was younger I actually knew a girl of Asian decent who's name was Susan. So color me confused.

[boberot]

Yeah, things were so much better when everybody in books was white and middle class and had neat-o names like Dick and Jane and Spot.

What? Your mom doesn't stay home and vacuum the carpet in heels and pearls?!



I'd say it's probably better to err on the side of being more inclusive of other cultures. Since when is there an expectation that people depicted in text books should be white or have "normal" names?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

I think we teach children something other than multi-culturalism when we artificially ensure that there's token representation of every group. We're teaching them that certain groups can't stand up on their own, without this boosting up by the majority.

Couple of problems with this statement. First of all, you're assuming that the "majority" made the decision to make this change. I don't see how you can make that assumption.

Secondly, how do you suggest we get from the original way of 100% WASPY representation to a more reasonable distribution without "teaching them that certain groups can't stand on their own."?

[MikeVic]

I had a stats book that talked about McGwire breaking HR records.

[Coffee Warlord]

Know what, I don't give a rats ass what they name people.

I do have a problem with them swapping out some names, making it more PC...and charging schools godknowshowmuch for the "Awesome New Edition!".

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Know what, I don't give a rats ass what they name people.

I do have a problem with them ... charging schools godknowshowmuch for the "Awesome New Edition!".

I think we need panerd to confirm that the only changes to this new addition were Susan and Barbara to Sukey and Takara.

Maybe they changed some math stuffs as well in this new edition and just decided to change the names while they were at it.

The text book people need to feed their families too.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I think we need panerd to confirm that the only changes to this new addition were Susan and Barbara to Sukey and Takara.

Maybe they changed some math stuffs as well in this new edition and just decided to change the names while they were at it.

The text book people need to feed their families too.

It's a math textbook. How much could they really change.

[MJ4H]

clearly they have to update it to the new math

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

So you're upset because...they're trying to broaden the audience for their textbook ("pandering")?



I certainly hope the young Asians in your classes get the same level of help and attention that the cute white kids do, whether or not two names in a sample math problem assist them in doing so.

Ok...outside of the discussion at hand, I'm getting a little bit of a chuckle out of the imagery of a minority superintendent reading the previous version and saying "Screw this crap - this company can go to hell with their Susan and Barbara!"


("Broaden their audience" - how much textbook competition is there? And the kids, they're pretty much locked in. I understand what you're getting at - this is a matter of getting kids to tune in because they are not excluded - but the wording made me think of things in a sales-driven way. On that though...do minority kids tune out - "screw this whitey crap" - if they are not represented? How much does it register with them, from both sides of the fence?)

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

As to the taxpayer line, no it isn't an election rhetoric. We live in a society where who pays matters quite a bit. I think that their tax dollars entitle them to some level of representation in materials paid for by the government.

Are you saying that those who pay taxes should be represented in a school textbook? Hmmm....I have never seen my face in one and I pay taxes. I fail to see the relevance here.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

("Broaden their audience" - how much textbook competition is there? And the kids, they're pretty much locked in. I understand what you're getting at - this is a matter of getting kids to tune in because they are not excluded - but the wording made me think of things in a sales-driven way. On that though...do minority kids tune out - "screw this whitey crap" - if they are not represented? How much does it register with them, from both sides of the fence?)

Actually, cuervo, this makes perfect sense to me from a multi-national perspective. We know there's a huge market for English language instruction around the world (especially in China right now). If I'm a publishing company, having one edition (i.e., one set of printing costs) that is broadly multi-cultural is much better than having a Chinese edition, an Argentinian edition, etc. You get to market it as English language math instruction with cultural hooks that kids in your country can latch onto.

I could very easily see a shift like this being much more about multi-national marketing than multi-culturism. And if that really is the philosophy behind it, that's actually a pretty clever move (i.e., minimal cost, more markets).

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by boberot

I'd say it's probably better to err on the side of being more inclusive of other cultures. Since when is there an expectation that people depicted in text books should be white or have "normal" names?

The problem is that either the person in charge of editing the textbook decided changing the names of people was more important than making the math better/easier to learn/mistake-free or the textbook company has a seperate person whose job is solely to go through different textbooks making sure the names are multi-cultural, and the costs of that salary is being passed on to schools.

I also think it's dumb to name your kid after a stranger you met in a hospital, and I don't think we should be encouraging kids to do that. (Quick Panerd - injure some ladies named Barbara and Susan in Gloucester.)

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I also think it's dumb to name your kid after a stranger you met in a hospital, and I don't think we should be encouraging kids to do that.

Especially if they have some rare disease or something. Oh, the humanity!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The problem is that either the person in charge of editing the textbook decided changing the names of people was more important than making the math better/easier to learn/mistake-free or the textbook company has a seperate person whose job is solely to go through different textbooks making sure the names are multi-cultural, and the costs of that salary is being passed on to schools.

I also think it's dumb to name your kid after a stranger you met in a hospital, and I don't think we should be encouraging kids to do that. (Quick Panerd - injure some ladies named Barbara and Susan in Gloucester.)

Again, I ask you, how do we know that the person in charge of the editing didn't make "the math better/easier to learn/mistake-free" in addition to changing the names in some of the stroy problems in an effort to make them more illustrative of the miraculous rainbow that is humanity?

I am sure a math text book editor is fully capable of doing both without any significant additional cost to our schools.

I hear you general cry, though, my brothers. It's fucking hard to be a white male in America today. Just look at this Obama character. He's trying to break our string of 43 consecutive white male U.S. Presidents.

The end is nigh!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I also think it's dumb to name your kid after a stranger you met in a hospital, and I don't think we should be encouraging kids to do that. (Quick Panerd - injure some ladies named Barbara and Susan in Gloucester.)

This raises another interesting point. Why are we jumping to the conclusion that it's PC to have the woman in the hospital named Takara instead of Barbara? I argue that it is fact very NON-PC.

Let me explain. If anything, replacing Barbara with Takara is either (1) implying that Asian women are somehow weaker or more sickly than good, old fashioned American women; or (2) if Takara was in there because she was pregnant - since the mother of the child was most likely in a maternity ward - it could be the author's way of implying that Asian women have looser morals (Takara got knocked up here, not Babs) than American women.

As for the name Sukey, like was mentioned above, perhaps the mother was just a big fan of the "Gilmour Girls". Who could blame her? Further, can you be anymore WASPy than the Gilmores?

That editor is a fucking patriot.

[TCY Junkie]

I figured someone made him rewrite it and he thought it was silly. So he made a joke of it. Sukey is a form of Susan and Takara means Treasure, precious object. So Barbara is precious to him, which is probably his wife or Streisand. I really don't know how to make it much clearer it was silly and understood Panerd.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by TCY Junkie

I figured someone made him rewrite it and he thought it was silly. So he made a joke of it. Sukey is a form of Susan and Takara means Treasure, precious object. So Barbara is precious to him, which is probably his wife or Streisand. I really don't know how to make it much clearer it was silly and understood Panerd.

I think it is a code that Nicholas Cage will use to break box office records with in National Treasure 3.

[Passacaglia]

Man, two mentions of Gilmore Girls, and none of Belle and Sebastian. For shame.

[Karlifornia]

Dear panerd,

Why do you hate us?

Sincerely,
Sukey and Takara

[MrDNA]

In panerd's defense, I think what probably really annoyed him about this is that the publishers went through and changed names and pictures, but left the same half-ass actual math content. At least, as a teacher, I am guessing that's what would push his buttons.

Or maybe he's just incredibly racist? Could be either of the two

[MJ4H]

The math is so easy even Joe Joe the African Tribesman could do it.

[Logan]

I can't believe no one brought this up. Have any of you fuckers been to college recently?

The crime here is that these pricks "update" textbooks every year just to make cosmetic changes, change numbers around, and update charts, which means you can't buy used copies of old editions for $20. Instead, you're stuck buying the brand new, $140 edition because the teacher is using the new one and making references to it.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by Logan

I can't believe no one brought this up. Have any of you fuckers been to college recently?

The crime here is that these pricks "update" textbooks every year just to make cosmetic changes, change numbers around, and update charts, which means you can't buy used copies of old editions for $20. Instead, you're stuck buying the brand new, $140 edition because the teacher is using the new one and making references to it.

This is suppose to be about race. When you get attached to these two little girls in one edition based on what you thought was a true story only to have your heart ripped out in the next edition, I can see how someone could get upset. I wouldn't trust anythng that book puts out and they would have to prove to me that 1 + 1 = 2.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Logan

I can't believe no one brought this up. Have any of you fuckers been to college recently?

The crime here is that these pricks "update" textbooks every year just to make cosmetic changes, change numbers around, and update charts, which means you can't buy used copies of old editions for $20. Instead, you're stuck buying the brand new, $140 edition because the teacher is using the new one and making references to it.

One of the reasons I don't assign many textbooks in my classes. This year I'll teach six classes and likely not have a single textbook. I do plays, essays, an occasional book, but I try to stay away from textbooks. Most of them, at least in my field, suck and they're way overpriced.