CIA Interrogation Crucifies Iraqi Prisioner!

[Klinglerware]

Jesus wasn't the only person crucified in the history of the world. Fairly routine practice back in the Roman era, I believe. ISiddiqui is correct that in many Roman crucifixions, the criminal would be bound to the frame by rope, and not nailed...

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Jesus wasn't the only person crucified in the history of the world. Fairly routine practice back in the Roman era, I believe. ISiddiqui is correct that in many Roman crucifixions, the criminal would be bound to the frame by rope, and not nailed...

Exactly. Except this guy was hung in a different manner.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Exactly. Except this guy was hung in a different manner.

But "crucifixion" sounds sooooooooo much better when you're trying to create a martyr.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But "crucifixion" sounds sooooooooo much better when you're trying to create a martyr.

Or sell newspapers/create web traffic. Sensationalist journalism?? In America?? SHOCKING!

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Or sell newspapers/create web traffic. Sensationalist journalism?? In America?? SHOCKING!

That was my original point...the newspapers aren't calling it a crucifixion, only the author of the thread. If it was being portrayed as such in other areas (web, papers, magazines, etc) I would have never brought it up...

[NoMyths]

Title got people to stick around the thread, at least.

Heck, if I gave a pop quiz on extraordinary rendition (which is still occuring, unlike Abu Ghraib), I doubt the class would pass.

[oykib]

Boy, thes threads get stupid.

I'm not a Bush fan. But I'm not a far left crazy either.

What I don't understand is how the majority of conservatives haven't stepped back and really taken a look at this administration from the viewpoint of their beliefs and determined that there is a problem with Bush.

-> Draft Dodger: check

Now before you go flying off the handle about this detail and that one...
A) do you really think that he'd have gotten that air national guard slot without his family connections?
B) would normal guys have gotten away with his attendance record?

-> The buck never stops there.

I thought conservatives were about personal responsibility. Why the hell isn't the Bush Administration responsible for anything that's gone wrong. I'm not talking about half-assed mea culpas a year later, either.

I'm talking about the heads-rolling variety. Nothing that goes wrong is ever anybody's fault (Graft, military abuses, invading countries on bad intelligence, fucking up foreign relations)

In the same vein, I'm disgusted at the fact that they never seem to be willing to face the music. There never seem to be any press conferences out of this crew. And he never seems to answer questions at the ones he has. Although, I admit, that this is really more a criticism of gutless 'journalists' and our fucked up fourth estate than the administration.

-> Illegal Drug User: check

I think that some stuff like weed shouldn't be illegal. But it is. And I don't want my president to have done it while it was. We don't have any solid evidence that he did. But we didn't with Clinton, either. That never prevented even liberals from admitting that where there's smoke there's fire.

-> Love's Big Government like mom's apple pie: Check

This is the one that should really get your right-wing panties in a bunch. This guy's been emulating Clinton's worst spending sprees. But he's done it non-stop since almost the beginning of his administration.

I realize that he's had security issues that previous administrations didn't. But come on. Don't tell me that he couldn't have shown a little more restraint than he has.

Honestly, only numbers two and four are particularly disturbing to me. But I'm more disturbed that there seem to be no end of Bush apologists that won't even acknowledge these issues.

I won't lie and say the people on the left aren't as bad. But their guy isn't in power now. Your guy is. It seems defending him on these things is harmful to your real agenda, for as far as I understnd it.

It's like the country has become one big episode of "Crossfire" or something. People seem to neither be honest or reasonable.

I used to run into the same problem when arguing with liberals about Clinton/Gore selling out the left's interests.

It all makes me wonder if the country's gonna have to be at the brink of collapse for the pendulum to swing back toward reason.

[flere-imsaho]

Maybe "Compassionate Conservatism" is where you spend compassionately on the conservative issues you support?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by oykib

But I'm more disturbed that there seem to be no end of Bush apologists that won't even acknowledge these issues.

Umm ... In general, I don't see/hear any lack of criticism from numerous conservatives about the tendency to spend. For example, that's a fairly common talk radio topic for the past couple of years at least.

I'm not particularly inclined to argue the other points for various reasons, but on this one, I think we're seeing/hearing different things.

And, since I figure somebody is either going to ask or wonder, on the other points:

1) Yes, I do believe others can & have "gotten away with his attendance record". Were there advantages of his status? I'm pretty sure there were, but that's as much a part of the military as boots & bad food, and it isn't always at the instruction/request of the beneficiary.

2)re: Graft, military abuses, invading countries on bad intelligence, fucking up foreign relations -- I don't think there's a lot of criticism on most of these points simply because most of the Bush electorate agrees with the outcomes.
We don't believe Iraq was a mistake regardless of the bad intelligence, we really wish he'd taken an even harder line with our so-called allies, we really don't care a whole helluva lot about Abu Gharab, and there's been a lot more smoke than fire re: Halliburton, et al. The criticism is low because we don't really see a lot worthy of criticism. Further note: "We" refers to some portion of Bush voters/conservatives, I'm not pretending or presuming to speak for all of them. But I've yet to find a single person among the Bush voters I know IRL who doesn't fit with exactly what I said. Not one.

3) Of all the items, this one is the most concerning to me, and I'll agree that it has gotten an easier ride than I would have expected.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Maybe "Compassionate Conservatism" is where you spend compassionately on the conservative issues you support?

That's not really a bad line IMO, and I think there's actually a decent amount of truth in it.

I'd prefer less government spending, but I can swallow quite a bit IF I agree with how the money is spent (or more importantly, where it isn't spent).

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by oykib

Boy, thes threads get stupid.

thanks for smarting it up

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Fritz

thanks for smarting it up

I guess my keyboard's too sticky