HBO: Rome

[ISiddiqui]

Oh, and I'd also like to add that one of the things I really liked about the episode was showing the difference between the upper class and the lower classes, both having a party at the same time.

[Raven]

The one thing I don't like about the show is there are a shitload of characters. Other than the 8 or so main characters, I am having trouble remember who the hell is who.


Question - what was the significance of the black dove thing at the end of the last episode?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Raven

The one thing I don't like about the show is there are a shitload of characters. Other than the 8 or so main characters, I am having trouble remember who the hell is who.


Question - what was the significance of the black dove thing at the end of the last episode?

It signified the Gods accepted Caesar as coming in peace basically. He was cleared of his charges as an Enemy of Rome.

[Raven]

gotcha. But why did they have both black and white doves and release the black ones?

[Easy Mac]

dammit... the mpaa needs to loosen up on their bit torrents... i can't watch this or weeds.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Raven

gotcha. But why did they have both black and white doves and release the black ones?

I think white doves symbolize peace in general (ie, no war at all). Black doves may show that Caesar came to the city in peace, but that doesn't mean the empire is at peace.

[TazFTW]

Read on another board that they could use the scene of Caesar's seizure as a way to explain the rumors of him being a pedophile. Sure enough in this week's ep Atia starts talking about it.

Octavian and Titus are the men!

[DaddyTorgo]

i wish i was getting HBO so i could watch this. i'm just waiting for it to come out on DVD though, cuz I'd buy it anyway, so that way i can watch it all at once.

/roman history junkie

[Peregrine]

The show is definitely gathering steam now, it's getting very interesting.

[Barkeep49]

Ok here's what I want to know: What will be the "lower class" parallel to Caesar's assination which presumably comes at the end of season 1.

[cthomer5000]

Pretty amusing episode this week. The show is clearly a cut below some of their other fixtures, but definitely very entertaining regardless.

[TazFTW]

I'm disappointed they didn't show any of the battle.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

I'm disappointed they didn't show any of the battle.

Yeah, a little odd I thought. Probably just a money-saver. :shurg:

[Galaril]

I thought this episode really strated to turbo chrage the show IMHO. And lesbiankissing scenes oh yeah!

[Noop]

I loved when it showed that chick playing with her pussy. I wanted to blow a load....true story.

[miked]

I finally caught up, I like it...though every time it's over I go searching for my Civ3 CD.

Egypt is supplying Rome with food from their granary. If it weren't for that cursed Great Wall, they would be destroyed.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Noop

I loved when it showed that chick playing with her pussy. I wanted to blow a load....true story.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Noop.

This show needs less dog and more cat.

[TazFTW]

I can't believe that the Cleopatra/Ptolemy civil war and the birth of Ptolemy Caesar were crammed into 1 episode.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

I can't believe that the Cleopatra/Ptolemy civil war and the birth of Ptolemy Caesar were crammed into 1 episode.

The pacing can be pretty suspect, unlike most other HBO shows this one does have some pretty clear warts. Still an enjoyable series though, and last episode was hilarious.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, they are trying to get on with the Roman story . The Egypt stuff is a bit of sidebar to introduce Cleopatra for the whole Marc Antony v. Caesar rumble later on .

[MrBigglesworth]

There is so much interesting material with Roman history, that I don't mind that they skim by some stuff.

[Tara]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Actually, I think one of the goals of the series was to show a society that existed without Christian morality. So the sex is part and parcel of the plot and writing. Though as said, there was no orgy .

Roman socity has a lot of 'morality'. Morality was the essence of roman state and that compcet is not a christian topic. I don't know nothing about the show but romans was quite strict on sex related.
Sex wasn't considered a sin, but morality (there is a word in latin that refer to that and include all the aspect of morality in the roman state --> mores) for a roman implied to keep sex something joined to marriage. Moreover religion and morality in roman socity was part of the state, and a respect to that was a way to be a good citizen. Obviosly everyone was free to fuck around...but that wasn't so appreciated....

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

There is so much interesting material with Roman history, that I don't mind that they skim by some stuff.

They have to condence the life of Julius Caesar into 12 hours. Skimming is to be expected.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Tara

Roman socity has a lot of 'morality'. Morality was the essence of roman state and that compcet is not a christian topic.

Hence a show without CHRISTIAN MORALITY.

[korme]

Is this going to be a 1 season series?

[ISiddiqui]

Already been renewed for Season 2.

[TazFTW]

13!!!!!!!!!!

The arena scene kicked ass. Can't wait for the season finale next week to see what happens to Pullo and Vorenus.

[Anthony]

that arena scene was friggin awesome. easily my favorite episode for this series yet.

[panerd]

This episode was by far the best of the year and this is quickly becoming one of my favorite shows. The arena scene and the Brutus subplot are both awesome. If this follow's HBO normal pattern I can't wait for season 2 in 2014!

[sachmo71]

Brutus had his hand forced. Poor Caesar...but I guess if you seize power like that, paranoia is your best friend. Mostly.

[Anthony]

i always assumed Caesar was beloved. i'm sure the writers have taken liberty with certain real history elements, but it's certainly weird seeing that element - of Caesar being viewed as a tyrant - played up.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i always assumed Caesar was beloved. i'm sure the writers have taken liberty with certain real history elements, but it's certainly weird seeing that element - of Caesar being viewed as a tyrant - played up.

I always thought Augustus Julius Caesar was beloved, but Gaius Julius Caesar...respected but not necessarily beloved. Of course, I get them confused as to who did what.

[strait8]

The recent episode was by far the best. The arena scene was more graphic than any thing in Gladiator.

It was interesting to see how HBO handled the Brutus-Caesar falling out.

The Series writers decided that like the Patricians the proletariat had mixed feelings about caesar. In this series Caesar is played as a pure patrician. Actuall though the family was Jullii, they were impoverished and his mother ran a boarding house in the Palantine. The family fortunes were made when Caesars father married his sister off to gaius Marius "the first Man of Rome"

Caesar himself group in the streets of the Aventine and was multilingual and always always well connected to the proletariat. Tey were his power base. Another fact that was glossed over was Caesar married his daughter to Pompeii which tied Pompeii to him as Pompeeii truly Loved Julia. She died in child birth and there begin the split between Caesar and Pompeii.

If you want to read the history, but don't like history books read the 7 historical novel series "the First Man of Rome." by Colleen McCullough.

This chronicles the peak of the Republic when Gaius Marius was a consul 7 times to Sulla, Julius and ending with Augustus beating Marc Anthony.

The book is decidedly different than this series but is well researched and brilliantly written. The story of how Caesar beat Vercingentorix at Alesia is both brilliant in expalnation and a great read.

In this series Caesar is portrayed as a man who was better looking, smatrer and a man whomade decisions quickly and forcefully. He lived recklessly and on the edge.

I like this HBO series as all the muck and grit of Rome are everywhere but on the Patrician Togas. But the books fillin the blanks and give a great perspective of these and many other fascinating Characters.

[Airhog]

Well, the season finale is finally over. A pretty good episode I think, and definately with some good plot twists. One was a bit obvious, and it makes me wonder if they will continue that trend for each subsequent season...

[ISiddiqui]

Nice stabbing scene... and no "Et Tue Brutus" (which is good).

Should be fun next season with the choosing of sides.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah I agree about the plot twists. I saw the killing of Caesar a mile away. First episode in fact I predicted Brutus would have something to do with it.

All joking aside I thought it was a servicable, though not great, season finale. Last week's episode far out did it.

I just hope they bring Max Pircus back as he is by far my favorite character on the show and he should have more to do in the seasons to come. Additionally, my respect for the actor playing Marc Anthony has grown these last couple of episodes.

I am pleased I watched this show though it is a step below the best HBO has to offer.

[TazFTW]

I'll miss Niobe. It was nice to see Pullo and Vorenus survive. Here's to hoping they are brought back for the 2nd season.

Shame that because its HBO we'll probably won't see season 2 until 2007.

[cthomer5000]

Just caught the episode.... fantastic stuff. I thought this episode was a couple notches better than any previous one, and this was the first time I found myself really wishing i had another episode to watch at that moment. I look forward to season 2.

[Stevebsfan]

I agree with people, this show was great. Not to sound like a typical guy, but anyone notice the nudity was cut down pretty bad after the first few episodes? I'm not really complaining because the show was great, but I was hoping to see more Polly Walker (Atia) in all her glory I heard they scrapped directors after episide 3 and that cleaned it up a bit. (sorry if this was mentioned above, didn't read the full thread)

I do love how they carried the Lucius - Titus storyline and even took it as far as Lucius as Caesar's bodyguard towards the end, yet took the early storyline (not his kid) and pulled him away on the ides to prevent false history. I'm pretty sure both guys were just fictional characters, many some history buffs can confirm? I searched and found nothing about those names.

[TazFTW]

Pullo and Vorenus are briefly mentioned in Caesar's De Bello Gallico, which is his account of the war in Gaul.

Book V 44

Erant in ea legione fortissimi viri, centuriones, qui primis ordinibus appropinquarent, Titus Pullo et Lucius Vorenus. Hi perpetuas inter se controversias habebant, quinam anteferretur, omnibusque annis de locis summis simultatibus contendebant. Ex his Pullo, cum acerrime ad munitiones pugnaretur, "Quid dubitas," inquit, " Vorene? aut quem locum tuae probandae virtutis exspectas ? hic dies de nostris controversiis iudicabit. " Haec cum dixisset, procedit extra munitiones quaque pars hostium confertissma est visa irrumpit. Ne Vorenus quidem tum sese vallo continet, sed omnium veritus existi mationem subsequitur.

Mediocri spatio relicto Pullo pilum in hostes immittit atque unum ex multitudine procurrentem traicit; quo percusso et exanimato hunc scutis protegunt, in hostem tela universi coniciunt neque dant regrediendi facultatem. Transfigitur scutum Pulloni et verutum in balteo defigitur. Avertit hic casus vaginam et gladium educere conanti dextram moratur manum, impeditumque hostes circumsistunt. Succurrit inimicus illi Vorenus et laboranti subvenit.

Ad hunc se confestim a Pullone omnis multitudo convertit: illum veruto arbitrantur occisum. Gladio comminus rem gerit Vorenus atque uno interfecto reliquos paulum propellit; dum cupidius instat, in locum deiectus inferiorem concidit. Huic rursus circumvento fert subsidium Pullo, atque ambo incolumes compluribus interfectis summa cum laude sese intra munitiones recipiunt. Sic fortuna in contentione et certamine utrumque versavit, ut alter alteri inimicus auxilio salutique esset, neque diiudicari posset, uter utri virtute anteferendus videretur.

Originally Posted by Translated in english

There were in that legion Titus Pullo and Lucius Vorenus, very brave men [and] centurions who were close to the first rank. These had continual disputes between themselves as to which of the two should be preferred to the other, and every year they fought with the greatest of rivalry for the position. From these, Pullo, when there was very fierce fighting at the fortifications, said, 'Why are you hesitating, Vorenus, or what opportunity for proving your courage are you waiting for? This day will decide our disagreements.' When he said this he went outside the fortifications and rushed [into] where the densest part of the enemy was [to be] seen. Nor did Vorenus confine himself to the rampart (lit. contain himself with the rampart) but, fearing the opinion of all, followed (on the tense of veritus see 14.1/4).

When a short space away (lit. short space having been left), Pullo hurled his javelin into the enemy and transfixed one of the crowd who was running forward. When the latter was hit and killed the enemy protected [his body] with their shields [and] all threw weapons at Pullo and did not allow him to advance. Pullo's shield was pierced through and a spear was fixed in his baldric. This chance turned back his scabbard and obstructed his right hand as he tried to draw his sword (a baldric was a belt hanging from the right shoulder to the left thigh to which a solder's scabbard and sword were attached; a Gallic spear hit Pullo's baldric in such a way as to dislodge both baldric and scabbard from their usual positions)

The enemy surrounded him, hampered [as he was]. His rival Vorenus ran up to him and helped him in his difficulties. The whole crowd quickly turned to him from Pullo; they imagined the latter transfixed by the spear. Vorenus fought hand-to-hand with his sword (lit. did the thing at close quarters with sword) and, after killing one man, drove the rest back a little. While he was pressing on too eagerly he was brought to a lower spot and fell. Pullo in turn gave him help when [he was] surrounded, and, after killing many, both retired safe[ly] to inside the fortifications with the greatest praise. In their dispute and contest fortune manipulated them (lit. turned them this way and that) in this way (sic) so that each rival helped and saved the other, and a judgement could not be made as to which of the two should be considered superior (lit. seemed to be needing-to-be-preferred) to the other in courage. (Caesar, de Bello Gallico. V, 44 adapted)

[Stevebsfan]

Holy shit, those guys were great. Great read thanks for that, Taz!