Rush's failed bid for the Rams

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But just because Sharpton and Jackson don't want an open and honest discussion doesn't mean that Rush does. If they were interested I'd be very surprised if they didn't face great difficulty in being a part of an ownership group for an NFL franchise.

I think that the NFL owners would be just as upset (if not more) by having Sharpton or Jackson own a team as Rush. And I also think that they would do everything they could behind the scenes to stop them from owning a team. But I also think that you would not see the quick and public condemnation of them that you saw of Rush.

It is still more OK in America to speak out against a white racist than a black racist.

[JPhillips]

I'd agree with that, with the caveat that a lot of the discussion of Rush was led by the players. I don't think Irsay or Goodell says anything, or even gets asked about the situation, if the players hadn't been out front on the issue.

One question I have is how did Rush's involvement become so public? Did he or Checketts promote it or was it leaked by the NFL?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

put on your "economics" and "public relations" hat rather than your "liberal conspiracy" hat for a minute Jon

At some point in life something has to come even before the last dollar you can wring out of something.

But as the Eagles already proved most recently (and other teams have proven in the past), that's not the case with NFL ownership. I don't hold them in much regard overall to start with, this latest incident just diminishes them even further.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Conflict emerges in Checketts, Limbaugh comments | ProFootballTalk.com

Florio reporting that Rush was overstating the level of involvement he would have with the team.

[CamEdwards]

Well, thank goodness we won't have any racism in the NFL. Now, who's picking the Redskins over the Chiefs this weekend?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

And the problem was the reaction to what he said about McNabb, you can't have an open and honest discussion these days, rather the race card is played by the left almost immediately.

I don't get what you're talking about. Rush is the one who started out playing the race card.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Well, thank goodness we won't have any racism in the NFL. Now, who's picking the Redskins over the Chiefs this weekend?

WELL PLAYED SIR!!!!

and hey Cam - I went shooting on Monday night for the first time! You'd be so proud!

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't get what you're talking about. Rush is the one who started out playing the race card.

Rush said that McNabb was a mediocre QB who got way more attention than other mediocre QBs and postulated that it was because the media wanted a successful black QB. The implication is that it was a "makeup" for the old stories that a black QB could not succeed. That is an interesting topic for debate and discussion. Rather than discussing it openly, he was labelled a racist for making the claim and the topic marginalized.

But we'll probably never agree on this, we went round-and-round on it when it first happened.

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

WELL PLAYED SIR!!!!

and hey Cam - I went shooting on Monday night for the first time! You'd be so proud!

Did you really? That's great. Have a good time?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Did you really? That's great. Have a good time?

I did! My best friend took me for my birthday. Lil piddly .22's, but you got to start somewhere and work your way up I suppose. And for someone with such crappy eyesight for a first-timer I did alright I'd say. Pulled a little high most of the time, but clustered tight and within the circles.

We'll have to do it again.

[Subby]

Florio reporting that George Soros also a part of the Checketts group.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Pulled a little high most of the time, but clustered tight and within the circles.

I would have to think that's a very encouraging sign.

Seems to me that inexperienced shooters (which I'm gathering from this that you are) are usually all over the place, so if you've got consistency already then it becomes more about technique and focused adjustments as opposed to needing to fix a whole bunch of broken things some of which can be more about getting your head around shooting concepts rather than physical things.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I would have to think that's a very encouraging sign.

Seems to me that inexperienced shooters (which I'm gathering from this that you are) are usually all over the place, so if you've got consistency already then it becomes more about technique and focused adjustments as opposed to needing to fix a whole bunch of broken things some of which can be more about getting your head around shooting concepts rather than physical things.

yep. very inexperienced. first time ever. I definately had consistency by my 2nd box of 50 rounds...everything was clustered in a straight line and pretty much all within the circles, above the bullseye for the most part (although I did manage to get some down and in the circle just outside of it).

I definately think I could improve a whole lot - my breathing was not very focused and steady and I know that throws you off. And I'm sure it wasn't focused and steady, and i wasn't firing after exhale because I was nervous/jittery. So I tried to brace myself a little extra to compensate, but I can tell you for a fact I wasn't entirely successful.

[Peregrine]

A thread about Rush Limbaugh became controversial? Didn't see that one coming.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Rush said that McNabb was a mediocre QB who got way more attention than other mediocre QBs and postulated that it was because the media wanted a successful black QB. The implication is that it was a "makeup" for the old stories that a black QB could not succeed. That is an interesting topic for debate and discussion. Rather than discussing it openly, he was labelled a racist for making the claim and the topic marginalized.

But we'll probably never agree on this, we went round-and-round on it when it first happened.

The way you put it is way more interesting than Limbaugh's comments. What you think was implied was never said. A conversation on the historical racism of white owners/players/reporters and what it has led to would be interesting, but Limbaugh never mentioned the history of racism directed at black QBs.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

A thread about Rush Limbaugh became controversial? Didn't see that one coming.

did you see it turning into my "learn to shoot" dynasty? LOL

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Rush said that McNabb was a mediocre QB who got way more attention than other mediocre QBs and postulated that it was because the media wanted a successful black QB. The implication is that it was a "makeup" for the old stories that a black QB could not succeed. That is an interesting topic for debate and discussion. Rather than discussing it openly, he was labelled a racist for making the claim and the topic marginalized.

But we'll probably never agree on this, we went round-and-round on it when it first happened.

I'll agree that it's interesting, but it's still playing the race card.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The way you put it is way more interesting than Limbaugh's comments. What you think was implied was never said. A conversation on the historical racism of white owners/players/reporters and what it has led to would be interesting, but Limbaugh never mentioned the history of racism directed at black QBs.

Here is Rush's hate-filled racist diatribe:

Originally Posted by Limbaugh

"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well,'' Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

Yes, I view that as a lead-in for someone to ask "why do you think the media is desirous that a black QB do well?", others will see it much more sinister than I.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'll agree that it's interesting, but it's still playing the race card.

I guess I view "playing the race card" differently. I consider it "playing the race card" when you use race to shut down any further discussion. I didn't see any closing the door to further discussion in Rush's comments, but I've seen it done plenty elsewhere: "you are a racist for opposing / supporting program X, so your opinion does not matter" is playing the race card to me. Or "you are a racist for saying that, so I'm not going to listen to anything further you have to say and will file a lawsuit against you" is another good example. And it is usually used to avoid inconvenient facts that don't back the position (which may well have been where Rush's statements could have gone had anyone bothered to debate McNabb's playing skills, and if Rush had gone there I'd have been right with everyone else).

[Arles]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The way you put it is way more interesting than Limbaugh's comments. What you think was implied was never said. A conversation on the historical racism of white owners/players/reporters and what it has led to would be interesting, but Limbaugh never mentioned the history of racism directed at black QBs.

I think if anyone else on ESPN said this:

I don't think he's been that good from the get-go. I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

It would barely register on the national radar. The firestorm was as much because of the messenger as it was for the message. If Tom Jackson or Mike Ditka said this, no one would care.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think if anyone else on ESPN said this:

It would barely register on the national radar. The firestorm was as much because of the messenger as it was for the message. If Tom Jackson or Mike Ditka said this, no one would care.

Of course, but that's true in every aspect of life. The message is always tied up with the messenger.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Here is Rush's hate-filled racist diatribe:



Yes, I view that as a lead-in for someone to ask "why do you think the media is desirous that a black QB do well?", others will see it much more sinister than I.

I'm not saying Rush was trying to be overtly racist, but I think he was definitely trying to stir the pot, that's what he was hired to do. His, and ESPN's problem was that a national audience responded much differently than did Rush's radio audience. That's the risk you take when you hire someone like Rush. It's the exact reason why the NFL saw no reason to let him into their club.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think if anyone else on ESPN said this:

It would barely register on the national radar. The firestorm was as much because of the messenger as it was for the message. If Tom Jackson or Mike Ditka said this, no one would care.

Jimmy Snyder begs to differ.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think if anyone else on ESPN said this:

It would barely register on the national radar. The firestorm was as much because of the messenger as it was for the message. If Tom Jackson or Mike Ditka said this, no one would care.

Similarly, if Limbaugh had said something like this

The advantage goes to New England if they stay balanced. The Denver Broncos, either by game plan or by execution, have to make the Pats one-dimensional so they get a chance to rush the passer. If they can do that, I think that you have some guys upfront – Elvis Dumervil, vs. Matt Light, who gets the chance to take advantage of that matchup, but that’s only if you can make them one-dimensional.

it too would have barely registered on the national radar.

[DaddyTorgo]

is desirious a word?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I guess I view "playing the race card" differently. I consider it "playing the race card" when you use race to shut down any further discussion. I didn't see any closing the door to further discussion in Rush's comments, but I've seen it done plenty elsewhere: "you are a racist for opposing / supporting program X, so your opinion does not matter" is playing the race card to me. Or "you are a racist for saying that, so I'm not going to listen to anything further you have to say and will file a lawsuit against you" is another good example. And it is usually used to avoid inconvenient facts that don't back the position (which may well have been where Rush's statements could have gone had anyone bothered to debate McNabb's playing skills, and if Rush had gone there I'd have been right with everyone else).

That's fine to have your own view -- I see it as bringing up race in the discussion of an issue where race is not a factor. I didn't hear much of the media response to it, but I did see the show -- everyone else tried to bring the topic back to football, talking about the defense, and I think Steve Young mentioned that the Eagles won with their backup (Koy Detmer maybe?) in some games pretty recently. You're right that this could have been an interesting topic, but one that should have been its own planned segment, instead of something sprung on the rest of the show. If I recall, Rush said something before the commercial break hinting at what he was going to say next, so there was some warning, but it would have played better if everyone involved in the discussion was on the same page regarding the topic. They're all trying to talk about football while he's talking about race, which made it sound a lot worse.

[Schmidty]

Apparently, the NFL doesn't like Tom Sawyer.

[larrymcg421]

I think what makes Rush look really bad though is that later on he defended Rex Grossman saying that the media was dumping on him only because he's a white Quarterback.

Rex Grossman only gets trashed because he's white. Donovan McNabb gets praised because he's black. Those two statements together make it hard to claim this is someone wanting an open and honest discussion.

[lungs]

JaMarcus Russell keeps getting chances because he is black and Brady Quinn gets benched because he is white.

[larrymcg421]

It's hard out here to be a White Quarterback.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I think what makes Rush look really bad though is that later on he defended Rex Grossman saying that the media was dumping on him only because he's a white Quarterback.

Rex Grossman only gets trashed because he's white. Donovan McNabb gets praised because he's black. Those two statements together make it hard to claim this is someone wanting an open and honest discussion.

I missed the Grossman bit, and yes that makes it worse.

[KWhit]

I am amazed that there is anyone surprised by this decision by the NFL. They don't want that controversy.

And why all the focus on the McNabb thing? Doesn't Rush have a whole lot of other racist quotes other than the whole McNabb thing? A quick Google search came up with these:

"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back."

"Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

[gstelmack]

I think this is another good take on the situation:

Commentary: Don't blame Limbaugh for our faults - CNN.com

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I am amazed that there is anyone surprised by this decision by the NFL. They don't want that controversy.

And why all the focus on the McNabb thing? Doesn't Rush have a whole lot of other racist quotes other than the whole McNabb thing? A quick Google search came up with these:

"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back."

"Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

Probably because for a lot of NFL fans, that little bit of time he was on the ESPN pregame show was all they had actually heard by him -- so fans that remember will think of him as racist for that, and owners are worried by the fact that it took, what was it, 2-3 weeks?, of exposure to the NFL's fanbase before getting himself in trouble the first time, why should they put their money on the line to give him a second chance at it? It would be a different thing if he were a racist but managed to keep that racism from reaching NFL fans.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Probably because for a lot of NFL fans, that little bit of time he was on the ESPN pregame show was all they had actually heard by him -- so fans that remember will think of him as racist for that, and owners are worried by the fact that it took, what was it, 2-3 weeks?, of exposure to the NFL's fanbase before getting himself in trouble the first time, why should they put their money on the line to give him a second chance at it? It would be a different thing if he were a racist but managed to keep that racism from reaching NFL fans.

Yeah, I get that.

I meant why the focus in this thread.

He's said a million questionable things and from the looks of it, at least a few things I would call blatantly racist on his radio show. I don't see why the McNabb comments were being parsed over and over to try to prove whether he is or isn't a racist. There's plenty of other evidence out there that he says some pretty hateful stuff.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Jimmy Snyder begs to differ.

As does Al Campanis.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

You also can't have an open and honest discussion about race when Limbaugh gets villified for what he said but Sharpton, Jackson, etc are allowed to spew their hate unmolested.

I don't know if Jackson and Sharpton are seen differently from where you live, but from what I've gathered they're seen as divisive clowns and media whores. They have their fervent supporters like Rush, but I think both get villified all the time.

And there should have never been a discussion about race. That was one of the problems with his comments. NFL players are judged by what they do on the field. He is the one who played the race card and others simply didn't want to play along. NFL fans don't want to sit down on Sunday and determine if Jason Campbell is good or bad based on his skin color.

It was a bad move by ESPN to bring politics into the show (which no one wants). I blame them more than I blame Rush who has always been about race-baiting. It's like blaming Artie Lange for trashing Joe Buck, HBO fucking knew what the guy was about before the show took place.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I am amazed that there is anyone surprised by this decision by the NFL. They don't want that controversy.

And why all the focus on the McNabb thing? Doesn't Rush have a whole lot of other racist quotes other than the whole McNabb thing? A quick Google search came up with these:

"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back."

"Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

"Look it, let me put it to you this way. The NFL all too often looks like a game between the Bloods and the Crips without any weapons. There, I said it."

Yeah, I can't see why the NFL would oppose a guy like that owning a team that is comprised of predominately black men.

[Young Drachma]

Limbaugh Comments on Failed Ownership Bid - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com

[path12]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Limbaugh Comments on Failed Ownership Bid - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com

Sigh. The media, the courts and now the NFL. Is there anything liberals don't control other than Democrats?

[cartman]

I've heard that the investor taking Rush's place in the group is... George Soros.

[path12]

Originally Posted by cartman

I've heard that the investor taking Rush's place in the group is... George Soros.

If true, this may become the funniest story ever.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Apparently, the NFL doesn't like Tom Sawyer.

So no Rush at the Super Bowl half time show???

[Crapshoot]

Dittoheads Respond To Rush's Nixed NFL Bid With Sadness, Holocaust Poetry - Rush Limbaugh - Deadspin

This is hilarious.

[JPhillips]

The Greatest Shoah on Turf is fantastic.

[Young Drachma]

Rush Limbaugh blames others for being dropped from St. Louis Rams purchase bid - ESPN

Apparently Marshall Faulk is one they're talking to, but not George Soros.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Yeah Schefter came out saying the Soros thing was false. Florio was citing bloomberg.com, where the article I found seemed to hint that Soros would be involved.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Conflict emerges in Checketts, Limbaugh comments | ProFootballTalk.com

(In this regard, we're not saying that Limbaugh doesn't have legitimate grips with Sharpton, Jackson, and/or the media. But the reality here is that the decision of the NFL not to do business with Limbaugh reflects a prime example of a business determining its own course without government intervention.)

I wonder what grips he could possibly have and if he has ever came to gripes over his grips.

SIGH. Proofreading is a lost art I tell you.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Rush said that McNabb was a mediocre QB who got way more attention than other mediocre QBs and postulated that it was because the media wanted a successful black QB. The implication is that it was a "makeup" for the old stories that a black QB could not succeed. That is an interesting topic for debate and discussion. Rather than discussing it openly, he was labelled a racist for making the claim and the topic marginalized.

But we'll probably never agree on this, we went round-and-round on it when it first happened.

So wait, saying someone isn't talented and the only reason people say that they are is because of their race isn't playing the race card? What bizarro world do you live on? Anyone implying that something is simply because of race is playing the race card no matter how good the point is. It's the person stating explicitly that something occurred that would not have occurred if the person is of another race. How can that possibly not be playing the race card? Rush denigrated a mans achievements and played them off as being a product of someone elses racial preferences. Damn. That's textbook son.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I guess I view "playing the race card" differently. I consider it "playing the race card" when you use race to shut down any further discussion. I didn't see any closing the door to further discussion in Rush's comments, but I've seen it done plenty elsewhere: "you are a racist for opposing / supporting program X, so your opinion does not matter" is playing the race card to me. Or "you are a racist for saying that, so I'm not going to listen to anything further you have to say and will file a lawsuit against you" is another good example. And it is usually used to avoid inconvenient facts that don't back the position (which may well have been where Rush's statements could have gone had anyone bothered to debate McNabb's playing skills, and if Rush had gone there I'd have been right with everyone else).

Ah, using a custom definition of a term. Gotcha. Not that effective though when communicating.