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View Poll Results: Interested in.. | |||
Seeing him succeed | 14 | 18.42% | |
Seeing him fail | 11 | 14.47% | |
Not seeing him | 36 | 47.37% | |
Attacked by flesh eating trout | 15 | 19.74% | |
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll |
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05-19-2009, 12:00 PM | #51 | ||
Bounty Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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No, this thread is rehashing an old thread. Now, I have no problem with that in the least, but it seems pretty logical that - no matter how the original post is phrased - any talk about Michael Vick's crimes and his eventual return will lead to the same discussion as the last thread. After all, isn't that what was being discussed back then, too? His crimes and his eventual return?
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05-19-2009, 12:00 PM | #52 | |
General Manager
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Quote:
Why dog fighting is worse than hunting, horse racing, or dog racing? I think we tried to explain that to you last time, I think it's fair to say that you just disagree on this, and that's fair. But what's your point? Our democratic society has decided that some things should be legal and some things illegal. Those decisions were made before Michael Vick started committing crimes. You're not required to agree with the laws. You are required to follow them. Obviously you're dancing around the racial implications again. If you think that dog fighting is illegal only because it's a "black thing", I would say you're dead wrong, but you're entitled to your opinion. (I would also disagree that dog racing is a "black thing", and I have no idea why some are actually trying to enforce that sterotype to make their point). I think though, that you might have a little more peace over this situation, if you tried, just for a second, to have an open mind. Consider the possibility, no matter how ridiculous it may seem to you, that many people find dogfighting disgusting regardless of the races involved. You can't seem to see this possibility. This is why people think you're a racist. Last edited by molson : 05-19-2009 at 12:05 PM. |
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05-19-2009, 12:06 PM | #53 | |
Bonafide Seminole Fan
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Quote:
I wasn't even talking about race. I was talking about why is it okay for people to profit off horses and greyhounds. Do not project on to me your own guilty thoughts because if I want to call something racist I will say so point blank.
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05-19-2009, 12:09 PM | #54 |
Resident Alien
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If it had been Bill Romanowski involved in this, my feelings would be the same. The man should never be allowed back on the field.
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05-19-2009, 12:09 PM | #55 | |
General Manager
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Quote:
So you're asking why it's OK to profit off of a legal activity and not an illegal one? OK, there's a pretty easy answer to that (So easy, that I wonder if you're actually being sincere). Profitting off of an illegal activity promotes and encourages the illegality, and thus is against public policy. Plus, any money "earned" from an illegal activity tends not to be reported on tax filings. I guess you've changed your mind on all the race stuff, which I admit was fresh in my mind having recently read that thread. Last edited by molson : 05-19-2009 at 12:13 PM. |
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05-19-2009, 12:11 PM | #56 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
Personally I never looked at dog fighting as a black thing, here in SoCal those that are caught usually are Caucasian or Hispanic from my memory. |
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05-19-2009, 12:14 PM | #57 | |
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Okay so it's legal so why doesn't PETA make a big stink about it during those events? It has nothing to do with race and more to do with why are they so selective in who they chose to spew their venom. The same is true for dog lovers why are they not up in arms about greyhound racing.
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05-19-2009, 12:17 PM | #58 |
Resident Alien
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Noop is one of those guys that is just pointless to argue with. He thinks everyone is racist because he is.
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05-19-2009, 12:17 PM | #59 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
Have you ever gone to said events? |
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05-19-2009, 12:18 PM | #60 | |
General Manager
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Quote:
PETA makes a huge stink about horse and dog racing, and everything associated with those industries. And dog lovers are definitely against the mistreatment of racing dogs. Yes, they're probably even more upset about dog-fighting, because that's even worse (which you don't agree with, but trust me, almost everyone else does). And this whole story is higher profile because it's a celebrity. If Tom Brady beat and tortured a racing dog that he owned, he'd get some "venom", I assure you. If he financial supported such behavior on a huge scale, he'd be doing prison time. Last edited by molson : 05-19-2009 at 12:19 PM. |
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05-19-2009, 12:18 PM | #61 | |
Bonafide Seminole Fan
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Who is bringing up race? I am asking a question stop projecting your thoughts on me.
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05-19-2009, 12:25 PM | #62 |
Resident Alien
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Why didn't you jump to the defense of Geoffrey Dahmer? He was just eatin' folks.
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05-19-2009, 12:27 PM | #63 | |
Bonafide Seminole Fan
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Quote:
You know what you answered my confusion with this because I was confused as to why Vick caught the hate he did. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with his celebrity status. I don't usually associate athletes as celebrities so that is where I was missing it.
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05-19-2009, 12:28 PM | #64 |
Resident Alien
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FWIW, I think dog-racing should be banned too. And with horse-racing, I just don't understand why anyone would follow it. They stand around showing sentiment-filled imagery for an hour, and then the race is done in a couple of minutes. Where is the entertainment?
Last edited by Kodos : 05-19-2009 at 12:29 PM. |
05-19-2009, 12:31 PM | #65 |
Pro Starter
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My understanding is that if the "house" doesn't take money, it is legal. Someone is free to correct me. As for the topic at hand: I certainly don't want to see him doomed to failure like some others. I'm really rather indifferent. I root for guys that are known to have done "good things" in their life and with their celebrity,b ut I don't root against guys who have gotten mixed up into trouble. Do I want someone with a questionable past in the locker room of my favorite team? Not really. Do I want him barred for life from the NFL? No. I think he should at least be suspended for the length of time that people with other legal violations are suspended for (drugs, starting riots in strip clubs, etc). I think a 1/2-1 yr suspension at a minimum, then put him on a short leash if any team will take him. FWIW - I think any convictions outside of non-reckless traffic violations (there are probably a few other exceptions) should result in suspension. Domestic abuse, drugs, DUI, etc, etc.
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05-19-2009, 12:33 PM | #66 | |
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Where have you been for the last, oh, four decades? Of course athletes are celebrities.
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05-19-2009, 12:35 PM | #67 | |
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I don't think of LeBron the same way I think of Paris Hilton.
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05-19-2009, 12:36 PM | #68 |
Head Coach
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I think Vick is a savage piece of subhuman waste that doesn't deserve to work at a gas station much less play in the NFL.
It's not about race. It's not about celebrity. He beat and murdered dogs. This is not someone who got mixed up in something bad. He consciously took part in illegal activity where animals were maimed for sport, and consciously took part in executing dogs that weren't good fighters.
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05-19-2009, 12:39 PM | #69 |
Hockey Boy
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I don't think of Chiuauas the same way I think of German Sheppards, but they are both dogs. I don't think of "Daddy Day Care" the same way I think of "The Godfather II", but they are both feature length films.
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05-19-2009, 12:39 PM | #70 |
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Racist.
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05-19-2009, 12:41 PM | #71 | |
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Quote:
Okay. LeBron is an NBA player and so is Mouhamed Sene, so is the latter a celebrity as well?
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05-19-2009, 12:45 PM | #72 |
Coordinator
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celebrity
One entry found. Main Entry: ce·leb·ri·ty Listen to the pronunciation of celebrity Pronunciation: \sə-ˈle-brə-tē\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural ce·leb·ri·ties Date: 14th century 1 : the state of being celebrated : fame 2 : a famous or celebrated person |
05-19-2009, 12:45 PM | #73 | |
Pro Starter
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OK, I don't know if you're doing this on purpose or if you're really this dense. Just because you don't think of them that way, that doesn't mean it's not true. Anyone with reasonable intelligence knows that the top players in basketball and football, and to a lesser degree baseball and hockey, are celebrities. You may not look at them that way, but around the nation as a whole they are clearly celebrities. Michael Vick certainly meat that criteria, as does Lebron James. Clearly Mouhamed Sene does not, and hopefully you're just being an ass by making that point and it isn't that you truly don't get it. (this coming from a guy that is often an ass by bringing up points he doesn't agree with on this board, just to prove the point)
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05-19-2009, 12:45 PM | #74 |
Coordinator
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AWESOME
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05-19-2009, 12:47 PM | #75 |
College Benchwarmer
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05-19-2009, 12:47 PM | #76 | |
Coordinator
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From Wikipedia entry.
Quote:
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05-19-2009, 12:47 PM | #77 | |
General Manager
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All athletes are not celebrities, nor are all celebrities famous. Last edited by molson : 05-19-2009 at 12:49 PM. |
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05-19-2009, 12:47 PM | #78 | |
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I was making that point to Go Blue.
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05-19-2009, 12:48 PM | #79 | |
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Look at what Go Blue posted that is what I was replying too.
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05-19-2009, 12:48 PM | #80 |
Bonafide Seminole Fan
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I meant Blue not Go Blue
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05-19-2009, 12:54 PM | #81 |
Resident Alien
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You have something against the Blue Man Group? Racist.
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05-19-2009, 12:54 PM | #82 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
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The Falcons went 11-5 and were near the bottom of the league in attendance.
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
05-19-2009, 12:55 PM | #83 |
Bonafide Seminole Fan
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You continue to project.
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05-19-2009, 12:56 PM | #84 |
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I will say that as long as Leonard Little remains in the league Goodell is going to have a hard time keeping Vick away...
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05-19-2009, 12:57 PM | #85 |
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Oh, and of course my opinion is that I couldn't possibly care less what an athlete does off the field. He is on that field to entertain me, pure and simple. If he can still do those crazy darts and dodges, he will entertain me. If not, he'll be boring to watch and I'll have no interest in watching him.
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05-19-2009, 12:59 PM | #86 | |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
What he said. Seriously, if you don't understand thess simple points you're either stupid or just trying to be obtuse for some reason or another. I'm pretty sure it's the latter, which is much more frustrating and annoying than the former.
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05-19-2009, 01:05 PM | #87 | |
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Agreed. But the rules are: you get in trouble outside of football, you get suspended. They've already set that precedent, so Vick should just be susceptible to comparable players. Granted, I don't know any that have received multiple year prison sentences in today's league, but I might just not be a big enough sports nut. But the Packman suspension seems like a fair comparision -- Packman wasn't even convicted.
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05-19-2009, 01:07 PM | #88 | ||
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
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Quote:
Well, technically Vick has been suspended for two years. Edit: and Packman for 1 year. I don't agree with Ben on this, but he's at least consistent and it's difficult to argue with his stance outside of, "I don't see it that way".
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Last edited by wade moore : 05-19-2009 at 01:08 PM. |
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05-19-2009, 01:07 PM | #89 |
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To support the Blue Man Group, I blue myself.
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05-19-2009, 01:08 PM | #90 |
Pro Starter
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When did Packman intercept a K?
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05-19-2009, 01:09 PM | #91 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
If said athlete raped my wife or any other persons wife then I couldn't watch him. Regardless if he's paid his dues. Just like if he's been convicted of violently treating and killing dogs. |
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05-19-2009, 01:09 PM | #92 | |
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Quote:
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05-19-2009, 01:11 PM | #93 | |
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Well, there you go. Although I don't know that I feel the jailtime should count -- I never really "Got" serving tome concurrently. But I think the NFL needs to be consistent, whether we like it or not. AS someone said, he technically was convicted of any cruelty charges. Granted, Goodell has shown himself willing to not bother himself with actual convictions. I think the best thing for the NFL to do is let him play rather than having some contracted fight, and have Vick fall on his face and fail. That's best for the NFL, IMO. My guess is that they really don't want to let him play and to let him fade away without preventing him the opportunity would be the best route. Dunno. It depends on how much Vick is willing to fight for the opportunity to play in the NFL if it is denied to him.
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05-19-2009, 01:12 PM | #94 | |
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I think that one rule opens a door for a lot of really sweet changes to the NFL.
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05-19-2009, 01:13 PM | #95 | |
lolzcat
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I think Vick is VERY motivated to fight for a chance to play.
You seen his checking account lately?
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05-19-2009, 01:13 PM | #96 | |
lolzcat
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CHEETER!
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05-19-2009, 01:14 PM | #97 |
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Ben (and others) may certainly feel that way, but it's likely that the majority of the NFL's potential audience think Vick (off the field) is a jerk. If so, it's also likely that Vick's reinstatement will have a measurable deleterious effect on the NFL's image and, more crucially, its revenue generation.
While we might speculate that Goodell's decision will be based on some sort of ethical or moral standard, it's probably at least as likely that it will be based on the likely negative effect on the league if Vick is reinstated. Thus the issue of how Vick is perceived "off the field" definitely does matter. Last edited by flere-imsaho : 05-19-2009 at 01:15 PM. |
05-19-2009, 01:20 PM | #98 | |
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Yes, and we saw how Goodell dealt with pacman - I'm guessing the resolution here will be similar. Vick will be allowed to play, but he'll be subject to additional rules, restrictions and scrutiny that other players aren't. There will be zero tolerance in terms of getting in any trouble (regardless of whether the trouble is dog related), and he'll probably have to be involved in charitable work/donations. The restrictions alone will probably scare teams away from making him a QB. Maybe he gets a shot as a "slash" type player. I'm sure Lenoard Little would face a simlar deal, if his crimes happened today (Goodell can't go back and punish Little for stuff that happened a decade ago). Last edited by molson : 05-19-2009 at 01:21 PM. |
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05-19-2009, 01:20 PM | #99 | ||
lolzcat
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I've made my position known on this issue - but.. Do we really think this to be true? Do you think TVs around the nation will turn off if Michael Vick gets reinstated? Do you think NFL Shop will close down? Do you think that outside of maybe a short term (and I think VERY short term) loss to the team that signs him that there will be any real financial impact?
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05-19-2009, 01:26 PM | #100 |
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I'll take the "no, I don't care of he comes back" option.
Meaning...I actually could care less.
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