Have we been invaded?

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Your useless.....

And you can't debate yourself out of a wet paper sack and have the grammatical skills of my 8 year old.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by duckman

For st.cronin:

I thought you wore that one out with Flasch ...

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by duckman

Daughter?

lol....I meant child. I was talking with my daughter.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Please don't compare him to your daughter please. You daughter could put up a way better arguement.

Daughter?

[AENeuman]

bw, i hope you realize that the same reason they can march and wave their flag is the same reason you can say they should all go back to where they came from

btw bw, other than making yourself more bitter, and making some people here more bitter towards you, i hope you at least treated "your" people with love and compassion today

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I thought you wore that one out with Flasch ...

I need to find a choking smiley for Flasch.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

Mexicans should stay in Mexico. However if they want to become citizens of the U.S., they should have the chance. I don't like the idea of waving the Mexican flag on U.S. soil however.

Good thing that Americans haven't been waving their flag in any foriegn countries lately!

The USA, quite literally, exists soley through immigration. And those original immigrants didn't consider themselves American even hundreds of years afterward! Isn't one of the basic concepts of American freedom that anyone can go and live in America in their own way and exercising their won beliefs, culture and heritige? Wasn't that why the Puritans first left for the New World?

And more troubling, why do people feel the need to homogenise all those who live in their nation? It can only boil down to fear of difference, or more often percieved difference. First it was the Germans, then the Irish, then the Itallians, then the Eastern Europeans and now it's Mexicans, perhaps in another couple of decades it will be South Americans or Arabs. Diversity and multiculturalism can only be encouraged, especially for a nation that (rightly or wrongly) is portrayed as insular and ignorant in world affairs.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

lol....I meant child. I was talking with my daughter.

For a second, I thought there was something that you knew that I didn't.

[cartman]

Ok, so 6 schools in LA had some class disruptions yesterday, involving hundreds of students:

hxxp://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-protest25mar25,0,3312471.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Where does it intone that teachers were behind this?

As for an overall impact, it is minimal. Here is a page detailing the number of schools and students in the LA area:

hxxp://www.laalmanac.com/education/ed03.htm

According to that link, there are approximately 2000 schools, with over 1,000,000 students in the area. What happened yesterday doesn't even register as a blip, much less show a pervasive state of mind of teachers encouraging a walkout.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Geez, if you ever want to see who the 'buddies' are, put a couple of folks on ignore and watch the postless names cluster together! Amazing!

LOL, I've seen that same effect numerous times, it's funny for a while but it does become pretty predictable after a bit (which kinda takes some of the chuckles out of it).

[Bubba Wheels]

Geez, if you ever want to see who the 'buddies' are, put a couple of folks on ignore and watch the postless names cluster together! Amazing!

[WVUFAN]

In my opinion, the borders should be shut down, period. No new immigration. Until we can help the people that are in this country LEGALLY, we shouldn't let anymore in.

Illegals weardown our school system, since we HAVE to educate children here illegally. We HAVE to medically treat illegals. Why illegals have any rights when they're in our country illegally to begin with is beyond me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Illegals weardown our school system, since we HAVE to educate children here illegally. We HAVE to medically treat illegals.

Two things which both desparately need to be changed ASAP.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

And I'm not the least bit bitter about it at all, just wondering how some think that they can openly break the laws in some areas and then not realize that is only eventually going to lead to many breaking laws in all areas. Can't pick and choose laws to follow.

According to your statement here, then the segregation laws would never have been overturned in the 1960s.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Two things which both desparately need to be changed ASAP.

I agree. One of the draws that brings illegals to our country is our laws protect them. Instead of doing what we should be doing when they are discovered, we instead cottle them and treat them and educate them.

It should not be the responsibility of this country to educate and treat citizens of other countries. I certainly do not want to pay for it with my tax money, but yet that is what we do. And yet I seem to remember there being a big to-do when Swartzeneggar vetoed a law that would allow illegals to have driver's licenses, when that should be apparent to everyone illegals are not "entitled" to ANYTHING from us, except a trip back to the border.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

bw, i hope you realize that the same reason they can march and wave their flag is the same reason you can say they should all go back to where they came from

btw bw, other than making yourself more bitter, and making some people here more bitter towards you, i hope you at least treated "your" people with love and compassion today

Wonder what all those veterans that fought and died in all those foreign wars would think of the cities and streets of their home country being filled with people waving foreign flags in the advocacy of breaking our laws.

And I'm not the least bit bitter about it at all, just wondering how some think that they can openly break the laws in some areas and then not realize that is only eventually going to lead to many breaking laws in all areas. Can't pick and choose laws to follow.

[cartman]

The magnetic pull of BW's tinfoil hat is influencing the timestamps of the posts.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Wonder what all those veterans that fought and died in all those foreign wars would think of the cities and streets of their home country being filled with people waving foreign flags in the advocacy of breaking our laws.

I can't speak for all veterans, but it doesn't bother me in the least bit.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by cartman

According to your statement here, then the segregation laws would never have been overturned in the 1960s.

That's a silly analogy. What you're talking about was for equal treatment of all citizens of this country. We're talking about people who, by their very presence in this country consists of an illegal action. Two completely different things, and to compare them is ridiculous.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

That's a silly analogy. What you're talking about was for equal treatment of all citizens of this country. We're talking about people who, by their very presence in this country consists of an illegal action. Two completely different things, and to compare them is ridiculous.

Not necessarily. The segregation marches were to overtun the laws at the time regarding segregation. This march appears to be in response to the possibility that a law is going to be passed making an illegal immigrant be a felony. That is a pretty strong link.

The felony designation, to me, seems to be a very short sighted political manuever. Our penal system is already stretched pretty thin, an a large influx of illegal immigrants would push it over the edge. It would be particularly damaging to states with three strikes laws, since once someone was caught coming across the border three times, we'll be stuck footing the bill for them to the tune of $50K a year until they die.

I agree that something needs to be done, but simply passing a bill to make them felons isn't going to address the issue. In my opinion, it is only going to make things worse.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

That's a silly analogy. What you're talking about was for equal treatment of all citizens of this country. We're talking about people who, by their very presence in this country consists of an illegal action. Two completely different things, and to compare them is ridiculous.

Dola quote,

Both situations also had people committing acts that were against the law at the time as well, as part of the protest. Citizen or not, laws were broken each time.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by cartman

The felony designation, to me, seems to be a very short sighted political manuever. Our penal system is already stretched pretty thin, an a large influx of illegal immigrants would push it over the edge. It would be particularly damaging to states with three strikes laws, since once someone was caught coming across the border three times, we'll be stuck footing the bill for them to the tune of $50K a year until they die.

I agree that something needs to be done, but simply passing a bill to make them felons isn't going to address the issue. In my opinion, it is only going to make things worse.

I would agree with you in this. What needs to be done is not to put illegals in jail, or even punish them, since I understand why they are coming over. More border control, and a firmer regulation on finding illegals that are currently here. But, yeah, jail isn't the solution.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by cartman

Dola quote,

Both situations also had people committing acts that were against the law at the time as well, as part of the protest. Citizen or not, laws were broken each time.

Jaywalking and murder are both crimes too, but it's silly to compare them. Same with this example. The analogy isn't really valid.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

...And I'm not the least bit bitter about it at all, just wondering how some think that they can openly break the laws in some areas and then not realize that is only eventually going to lead to many breaking laws in all areas. Can't pick and choose laws to follow.

Bubba, if you would have started this post with this thought, there wouldn't be people messing with you. Instead, you tried to make up some details to fit what you wanted to argue against.

The problem is that this country enables illigal immigration. Businesses take advantage of the cheap labor, there are a number of medical and unemployment benefits, and after a certain amount of time you can become a resident alien. Actually there are a number of circumstances where you can become a resident alien. If none of these things existed, there would be a very small immigration problem, because there would be no benefit to coming here.

If I was in the shoes of a person who didn't have a good quality of life, I know I would do the same thing to improve that for my family. But if no such window existed, I would most likely try to improve the quality of life in my own country with the help of others that would have felt stuck.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Wonder what all those veterans that fought and died in all those foreign wars would think of the cities and streets of their home country being filled with people waving foreign flags in the advocacy of breaking our laws.

And I'm not the least bit bitter about it at all, just wondering how some think that they can openly break the laws in some areas and then not realize that is only eventually going to lead to many breaking laws in all areas. Can't pick and choose laws to follow.

So you don't speed or jaywalk?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Jaywalking and murder are both crimes too, but it's silly to compare them. Same with this example. The analogy isn't really valid.

They are both considered acts of civil disobience (illegal immigration/not sitting at the back of the bus), nothing even approaching the level of murder. However, if the legistation is passed, being an illegal immigrant will be a felony, just as murder is a felony.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by cartman

They are both considered acts of civil disobience (illegal immigration/not sitting at the back of the bus), nothing even approaching the level of murder. However, if the legistation is passed, being an illegal immigrant will be a felony, just as murder is a felony.

Not sure if I think illegal immigration would be considered "civil disobedience" in the way you're describing. People aren't coming here in order to change the current laws or to dispute a law, the way Rosa Parks did with the bus. I see where you're going with this, but the intend of the breaking of the two laws are for different reasons. That's why the analogy isn't correct, IMO.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by cartman

The magnetic pull of BW's tinfoil hat is influencing the timestamps of the posts.

Well of course your right, we should completely open our borders inviting anyone and everyone in regardless of past criminal or other history. Then we of course have to educate, feed, cloth and pay for medical care even if it bankrupts us as a nation. You stand on the mountaintop of insight and knowledge! What the heck was I thinking! Thanks!

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Well of course your right, we should completely open our borders inviting anyone and everyone in regardless of past criminal or other history. Then we of course have to educate, feed, cloth and pay for medical care even if it bankrupts us as a nation. You stand on the mountaintop of insight and knowledge! What the heck was I thinking! Thanks!

We do that for people in our own country who have lived here all their lives. Why should we deny that stuff to someone who actually comes over and works instead of some dumb fuck who drops out of high school and lives on welfare without a job? Just because they got lucky and were born here? That almost makes as much sense as hard work.

[kenparker23]

By PETER PRENGAMAN, Associated Press Writer
25 minutes ago



LOS ANGELES - Tens of thousands of immigrant rights advocates from across Southern California marched Saturday in protest of federal legislation that would build more walls along the U.S.-Mexico border and make helping illegal immigrants a crime.



They are protesting illegal immigration. They may or may not be illegal, but they are protesting legislation aimed at protecting our borders against illegals.

This is a huge problem in the USA right now. I am in orthopedic surgery. Some of my collegues in Texas are having a difficult time. In many emergency rooms, they are flooded with illegals with no insurance. We as healthcare providers take a hippocratic oath to help those in need. But, we all must realize that it is mine and your tax dollars that iare subsidizing these illegal immigrants. If something is not done, it will cripple many systems, including access to emergency healthcare.

Just a few thoughts.

KP

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Well of course your right, we should completely open our borders inviting anyone and everyone in regardless of past criminal or other history. Then we of course have to educate, feed, cloth and pay for medical care even if it bankrupts us as a nation. You stand on the mountaintop of insight and knowledge! What the heck was I thinking! Thanks!

You're a bigger idiot than I thought.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Not sure if I think illegal immigration would be considered "civil disobedience" in the way you're describing. People aren't coming here in order to change the current laws or to dispute a law, the way Rosa Parks did with the bus. I see where you're going with this, but the intend of the breaking of the two laws are for different reasons. That's why the analogy isn't correct, IMO.

I can accept that. I didn't mean to infer that people are immigrating illegally to bring changes to laws here. But that is exactly what the protests today were trying to do, except they were voicing their opposition to prevent a new law from being passed, not make changes to existing laws.

And if these protests were somehow "tainted" as Bubba seems to suggest because illegals participated, then the same "taint" would have applied to the civils rights protests. That was the gist of my point of view.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

We do that for people in our own country who have lived here all their lives. Why should we deny that stuff to someone who actually comes over and works instead of some dumb fuck who drops out of high school and lives on welfare without a job? Just because they got lucky and were born here? That almost makes as much sense as hard work.

Because it's a slippery scope. Because by turning a blind eye to the way a person comes to this country, you're advocating anyone, including criminals and felons from other countries, to come over. Because it would cause a burden to already overburdened public assistances. And because, quite frankly, it's an insult to all the immigrants who came over the right way.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by cartman

I can accept that. I didn't mean to infer that people are immigrating illegally to bring changes to laws here. But that is exactly what the protests today were trying to do, except they were voicing their opposition to prevent a new law from being passed, not make changes to existing laws.

And if these protests were somehow "tainted" as Bubba seems to suggest because illegals participated, then the same "taint" would have applied to the civils rights protests. That was the gist of my point of view.

Point noted, cartman, and again, I see your point on this.. I don't have a problem with the protests, personally. My point is that, while jailing illegals isn't a solution, the way we handle illegal immigration is not effective. They don't need to be jailed, but they don't need to be rewarded for it either.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Well of course your right, we should completely open our borders inviting anyone and everyone in regardless of past criminal or other history. Then we of course have to educate, feed, cloth and pay for medical care even if it bankrupts us as a nation. You stand on the mountaintop of insight and knowledge! What the heck was I thinking! Thanks!

So the reason the current Administration has raised the debt ceiling over $3 trillion dollars over the past 6 years is because of illegal immigration? Fascinating, I never would have known that.

[kenparker23]

We do that for people in our own country who have lived here all their lives. Why should we deny that stuff to someone who actually comes over and works instead of some dumb fuck who drops out of high school and lives on welfare without a job? Just because they got lucky and were born here? That almost makes as much sense as hard work.

There is merit in your argument. However, being born in a country does bring about some level of entitlement. I have the same feeling toward those who have no motivation and are natives. Those folks tax the system just as much.

[Desnudo]

I'm not worried.

[Desnudo]

Plus, the last time I checked, the Russian wheat crop will be fine this year.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Because it's a slippery scope. Because by turning a blind eye to the way a person comes to this country, you're advocating anyone, including criminals and felons from other countries, to come over. Because it would cause a burden to already overburdened public assistances. And because, quite frankly, it's an insult to all the immigrants who came over the right way.

The thing is, 99% of the illegals have no chance of coming legally. The whole "its an insult to those who came over the right way" statement is a joke. The ones who came over legally were the ones who won a lottery, got married, or already had connections. I doubt they'd feel insulted (note i don't necesarily disagree with the rest of the argument, though I think a blind eye is a purposefully overbroad statement).

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Plus, the last time I checked, the Russian wheat crop will be fine this year.

That's good, because if I remember correctly, the Cubans did come up through Mexico.

[Desnudo]

I've also seen doctors selling abdominizers on t.v.'s. You should buy one.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by cartman

So the reason the current Administration has raised the debt ceiling over $3 trillion dollars over the past 6 years is because of illegal immigration? Fascinating, I never would have known that.

Your saying that the costs involved are marginal and not to be concerned about? WE JUST HAD A POST FROM A DOCTOR WHO STATED OTHERWISE!!!
My Gosh, talk about seeing only what you want to see!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by kenparker23

This is a huge problem in the USA right now. I am in orthopedic surgery. Some of my collegues in Texas are having a difficult time. In many emergency rooms, they are flooded with illegals with no insurance. We as healthcare providers take a hippocratic oath to help those in need. But, we all must realize that it is mine and your tax dollars that iare subsidizing these illegal immigrants. If something is not done, it will cripple many systems, including access to emergency healthcare.

That is a valid point, but I also wonder how many of the legal citizens come in as well without insurance.

I do find it interesting that the biggest protests are in California, and they are have been little to none today in Texas. If anything, Texas as many illegal aliens as California, but it isn't considered as much of a problem here in Texas as it is in California.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Your saying that the costs involved are marginal and not to be concerned about? WE JUST HAD A POST FROM A DOCTOR WHO STATED OTHERWISE!!!
My Gosh, talk about seeing only what you want to see!

There was no dollar amount stated in that post. I also ask in the post above how many citizen come in looking for medical assistance without insurance.

You suck at the internet.

[gottimd]

The title of this thread just makes me think of this



Sorry for the brief interruption....carry on....

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I've also seen doctors selling abdominizers on t.v.'s. You should buy one.

I want some hydroxycut. That doctor in the commercials is ripped.

[Cringer]

I am disappointed this thread was started by BubbaWheels, it means it breaks down into crap from the get go.

I had read about the protests, which were in several cities yesterday including Atlanta, and thought it may pop up on here.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/25/imm....ap/index.html

Unfortunetly this is not the same CNN article I read earlier this morning. THat one had some different quotes which kind of bugged me. Things along the lines of comparing this to the struggle of blacks to be free in this country. That bugged me, because it is nothing like that.

The laws/bills trying to be passed call for some fairly reasonable things in my mind. I think these protests were kind of on the dumb side. And I am someone who lives on the border, and usually does not care much about illegal Mexicans. I see them all the time, I see where they come from, and I understand why they do it.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I am disappointed this thread was started by BubbaWheels, it means it breaks down into crap from the get go.

To me, it is kind of like the "O'Reilly effect". I may in general agree with a sentiment one of them expresses, but the way they get there makes me kinda wish I didn't, or at least have to try and defend it.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by cartman

There was no dollar amount stated in that post. I also ask in the post above how many citizen come in looking for medical assistance without insurance.

You suck at the internet.

Thanks!

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

The thing is, 99% of the illegals have no chance of coming legally. The whole "its an insult to those who came over the right way" statement is a joke. The ones who came over legally were the ones who won a lottery, got married, or already had connections. I doubt they'd feel insulted (note i don't necesarily disagree with the rest of the argument, though I think a blind eye is a purposefully overbroad statement).

At the risk of sounding harsh, to those who aren't able to come over, that's just too bad.

I work with several immigrants here that are here legally, one of which became a citizen, and they feel very strongly that illegal immigrants have no place here. Evidentally the process to get here is difficult.

What you're saying is basically open the borders to everyone. I feel the borders should be completely shut. Looks like we just have opposite opinions on this, Easy Mac. To me, we need to take care of the people here legally here now rather than allow more in.