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Old 11-20-2008, 10:49 PM   #51
digamma
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What are the signature non-conference wins for any conference? It was a below average year for non-conference scheduling, but Maryland beat Cal, last place Duke beat bowl eligible Vanderbilt, and 3-3 in the ACC Virginia Tech beat 4-3 in the Big 12 Nebraska to name a few.

Are you going to hang your hat on a win over Cincinnati or TCU or maybe Missouri beating Illinois?

Look, no one is claiming that the top of the ACC is better than other conferences, but the depth of the ACC is pretty solid.

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Old 11-20-2008, 11:20 PM   #52
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The ACC has five or six teams that are in the top 25 to top 40 range, so if the criteria is having a bunch of slightly above average teams, then I'd have to concede that point. Maybe the ACC can start a marketing campaign with "Our bottom feeders can beat your bottom feeders!"

Going off the Sagarin ratings (because I already had the window up, really), the ACC has 10 of 12 teams rated in the top 45 (then Duke at 53 and NC State at 70), but only 1 in the top 15 (UNC, 15).

For comparison, the Big 12 (consensus best conference this year, I think) has 5 in the top 10, Nebraska at 26, Kansas at 45, and the last five ranging from 66 to 116 (Iowa State). The SEC has 3 in the top 15, 4 more in the top 45, then the remaining 5 are 50-106 (Mississippi State).

The basis for it ends up being OOC opponents. The stats are that the ACC is 34-10 against OOC opponents, and those opponents have a combined record of 169-156. The SEC and Big 12 are both in the same winning percentage range - 35-8 for the SEC, 38-10 for the Big 12 - but the combined winning percentages of those are 160-206 (SEC), and 192-211 (Big 12).
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:36 PM   #53
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It was a below average year for non-conference scheduling, but Maryland beat Cal, last place Duke beat bowl eligible Vanderbilt, and 3-3 in the ACC Virginia Tech beat 4-3 in the Big 12 Nebraska to name a few.

Yes, but none of these teams are ranked, and being "bowl eligible" for one of the 64 bowl slots is hardly an achievement, since over 50% of the FBS teams get to play in bowls. Nebraska is 7-4, and probably the sixth or seventh best team in the Big XII. Cal is 6-4, and Vanderbilt is 6-4. A signature win for the ACC would have been Virginia beating USC, or Clemson beating Alabama, or perhaps Florida State beating Florida in two weeks.

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Are you going to hang your hat on a win over Cincinnati or TCU or maybe Missouri beating Illinois?

#19 Cincinnati has a good chance to win the Big East, and OU beat them 52-26. #16 TCU will likely finish 10-2, and OU beat them 35-10. I wouldn't even consider Missouri beating a mediocre Illinois team as being noteworthy, even though Missouri is only the fifth best team in the Big XII this year.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:36 PM   #54
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Also of interest is that the ACC is only below .500 against one BCS conference:
Big 10: 0-1
Big 12: 4-0
Big East: 2-2
Independents (Notre Dame): 2-0
Pac-10: 1-1
SEC: 3-3

Of course, the overall opinion of the ACC probably hinges - as it does in many seasons - on the 4 games against the SEC in the final weekend. On 11/29, we've got GT @ UGA (noon), Vanderbilt @ Wake Forest (7:00), Florida @ Florida State (TBD), and South Carolina @ Clemson (TBD). A 3-1 or 1-3 split there would, I think, settle the places of those two conferences reasonably well.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:40 PM   #55
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Yes, but none of these teams are ranked, and being "bowl eligible" for one of the 64 bowl slots is hardly an achievement, since over 50% of the FBS teams get to play in bowls.

And I think we've ended up at the key point again. Looking only at the ACC v. other BCS conferences (and Notre Dame), the ACC as a whole is 0-4 against teams with 8 or more wins (USC, Alabama, Florida, Northwestern), 5-0 against teams with 5 or less wins (Baylor, Rutgers, MSU, Texas A&M, Colorado), and 7-3 against teams with 6 or 7 wins (Losses to South Carolina, Connecticut, South Florida; wins against Mississippi, Cal, Nebraska, Connecticut, Notre Dame x2, Vanderbilt).

The ACC is possibly the best conference middle to bottom, and lacking that national title contender.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:42 PM   #56
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Moving on...

THWG!!!!
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:45 PM   #57
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The ACC is possibly the best conference middle to bottom, and lacking that national title contender.
Which is the only thing most non-ACC fans give a crap about.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:56 PM   #58
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Another way to put it is to look at the Big East a couple of years ago when WVU, Louisville and Rutgers were all 8-0 or 9-0 and ranked in the top 10 to start the season. Everyone went on and on about how great the Big East was and overlooked the fact that none of those teams had played a winning team up to that point. It was a media love-fest due to the shiny allure of the zeros in the loss column.

Now look at the ACC this season. I believe ten of the twelve teams have received Top 25 votes at some point this season...and, as a whole, the conference has played the toughest OOC schedule of any conference in the nation. But because there's no team who has rolled up a 10-0 record due to beating cupcakes (either in conference or out of conference), the average fan places the ACC below the Mountain West.

That's what happens when ESPN spends 90% of their college football coverage reporting on Top 10 teams (and Notre Dame).
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:19 AM   #59
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ACC sucks this year.
End of story.
I dont care how many good 6 or 7 win teams you have.

We suck, we should as a conference be building, but as for today we are the botches of the SEC and Big 12.
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:13 AM   #60
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ACC sucks this year.
End of story.
I dont care how many good 6 or 7 win teams you have.

Even though 8 of the 12 are 6, 7, or 8 win teams NOW, with still two to play? It's a reasonable bet that better than half the league will end up with 8 wins or better.
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:06 AM   #61
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Moving on...

THWG!!!!

Amen!
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:42 AM   #62
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Ugh, that sucked. That makes 5 losses in a row for my teams when I've gone to see them play (Celtics lost all three against the Hawks in the playoffs, The Braves dropped a game when I saw them, and now the Hurricanes.)
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:04 AM   #63
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#19 Cincinnati has a good chance to win the Big East, and OU beat them 52-26. #16 TCU will likely finish 10-2, and OU beat them 35-10. I wouldn't even consider Missouri beating a mediocre Illinois team as being noteworthy, even though Missouri is only the fifth best team in the Big XII this year.

So, yes, in other words. Thanks.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:15 AM   #64
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Wow, UTEP's starting center (the starter since his freshman year, actually) and team captain, Robby Felix, had a minor stroke on Sunday and is now done for the season. Luckily, he's already doing better and walking, and docs say that he should be able to play football again in the future...

UTEP Miner center OK after suffering a mild stroke - El Paso Times

EL PASO -- The UTEP football team heads into a two-game stretch that will define its season without its rock in the middle, center and team captain Robby Felix, who suffered a mild stroke in his home Sunday morning.

Felix's wife, Kelly, took him to the hospital, where he has been since and where he has already made an almost full recovery. He is expected to be released today.

"He's going to be fine," coach Mike Price said. "It's a warning. They've just got to find out what it is, what caused the stroke. He has great doctors working on that right now.

"It's still shocking. They are doing tests, and so far he has passed every one."

Felix briefly lost feeling and movement in half of his face and some of his body, but it since has returned and he is walking. His return this season is unlikely, but he should be able to play in the future.

Felix has played in a program-record 47 consecutive games dating to his first game as a freshman, and he was voted a captain this year.

He was an honorable mention all-conference pick last year in Conference USA and is considered one of UTEP's top NFL prospects. Kelly is expecting the couple's first child in March.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:59 AM   #65
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Great news for Mizzou fans. Gary Pinkel has signed a big contract extension. He's basically got a job at Mizzou for as long as he wants to coach.......

ESPN - Missouri, Gary Pinkel agree on big contract extension
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:04 AM   #66
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Even though 8 of the 12 are 6, 7, or 8 win teams NOW, with still two to play? It's a reasonable bet that better than half the league will end up with 8 wins or better.


Yes.
Lets look at those 6,7,8 win teams

Maryland
beats Delaware, Eastern Michigan, California, and 4 ACC teams
and loses to MTSU, once you lost to MTSU you are not a good team

FSU
Beats Western Carolina, Chattanooga, Colorado, and 4 ACC Teams

Wake Forest
Beats Bayor, Ole Misss, and 4 ACC teams

BC
Beats Kent State, Central Florida, Rhode Island, Notre Dame, and 3 ACC teams

GT
Beats Jacksonville State, Miss St, Gardner Webb, and 5 ACC teams

Miami
Beats Charleston Southern, Texas A&M, Central Florida, and 4 ACC teams

UNC
Beats McNeese State, Rutgers, UCONN, Notre Dame, 3 ACC teams

VT
Beats Furman, Nebraska, Western Kentucky and 3 ACC teams

Praising the ACC is akin to praising the Big East teams of the past few years. Numbers prove that if you have enough conference games and the whole conference sucks you will get a significant number of wins.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:27 AM   #67
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You realize you could do that with every conference, right, CU?

There were very few marquis out of conference games this year. Of course USC-Ohio State comes to mind. Penn State played Oregon State. But pretty quickly you're down to the Oklahoma Cincinatti game as the third biggest non-conference game of the year.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:19 PM   #68
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There's a big game in Norman against #2 Texas Tech and #5 Oklahoma...

Back to a discussion of the games...

The main thing I'm worried about in this one, and it's something few are really talking about, is that Oklahoma has not had to play a full game much this season. Almost all of their games have been blowouts by, at the latest, the 3rd quarter.

The one exception to that, of course, is Texas. Most of the talking heads seem to be forgetting that OU was leading almost that entire game. But Texas didn't fold, and the Sooners were forced to try to come up with big plays in the 4th quarter. They couldn't do it. And they have absolutely no experience doing it.

If this game is close, as most expect it to be, I worry about how they'll respond. The home record under Stoops is incredible, certainly, but I don't expect Harrell to get that rattled. This one is going to be a shoot-out, I think, and one turnover by somebody might be the difference.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:19 PM   #69
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Has Oklahoma improved their special teams play any?
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:20 PM   #70
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Please let it be a shootout. Texas Tech/Okie State was beyond disappointing.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:42 PM   #71
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Has Oklahoma improved their special teams play any?

Nope. It's horrible, collectively in all phases of special teams the worst I can remember.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:10 PM   #72
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A lot of people think that Texas Tech is going to score in the 40's or 50's, but since Mike Leach took over in 2000, Texas Tech has averaged 16 points per game in Norman. Granted, OU was better defensively in the past, but these were all Texas Tech teams that ranked near the top in scoring offense.
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:14 PM   #73
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So if OU wins Saturday and if they beat state the next week they would still trail Texas in the BCS? I thought OU would be on top with those two keys wins, the polls are fickle. OU was ahead in the coaches poll before Texas took out the jayhawks. Why wouldn't it switch again? I'm looking forward to the next BCS rankings. Since this is this weeks game discussion, I think the final will be around 45-28. I really don't keep up with many teams like I used to but curious what other think about the final score of this game will be.

RRod: I can't believe he left with all the players he had for his system. I was wondering how WVU would do when Pat White graduated. Obvious to me now pat white while a very good QB was taylor made for that system. RRod lucked upon both Slaton who didn't get any playing time until the VT game and White who didn't get much time until the starter got hurt and he brought them back against the cardinals. I guess maybe he wanted to leave and was afraid no one would want him after this season and wouldn't want to stick around without pat white and have a down year. I'm slightly upset because I feel WVU would be undefeated if he stuck around. All the changes caused havoc for pat white's final season. I watched the ECU game and the CU game. I really can't watch another WVU game after how different the offense looked from the past 3 years.
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:51 PM   #74
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RRod: I can't believe he left with all the players he had for his system. I was wondering how WVU would do when Pat White graduated. Obvious to me now pat white while a very good QB was taylor made for that system. RRod lucked upon both Slaton who didn't get any playing time until the VT game and White who didn't get much time until the starter got hurt and he brought them back against the cardinals. I guess maybe he wanted to leave and was afraid no one would want him after this season and wouldn't want to stick around without pat white and have a down year. I'm slightly upset because I feel WVU would be undefeated if he stuck around. All the changes caused havoc for pat white's final season. I watched the ECU game and the CU game. I really can't watch another WVU game after how different the offense looked from the past 3 years.

It seems that RR mostly left because of personal conflicts with the administration and AD. It kind of became a battle of egos. And Rodriguez has that same ultra-ambitious streak that Petrino and Saban have where no matter what their situation, the allure of something that might be bigger and better is really strong.

As far as Pat White, I basically think of this as his freshman year in terms of actually reading coverages, going through progressions, hot routes, etc. This is his first year as a real QB in all of the mental capacities. He has had great moments and horrible moments - and a lot of dropped passes. Rodriguez's offense was all about being streamlined, so much so that it takes everything but the simplest option reads out of the QBs hands. His passing attack is really not sophisticated whatsoever. (That's why I really don't buy anything about the U of M players not being able to learn the offense. The playbook is as thin as they come. That's another discussion, though.) Getting back to the point, White has been a "one read and if it's not there, just run it" QB for 3 years.

The bigger concern in my opinion is the offensive line. Rod was a great motivator (and Rick Trickett may have been even better), and I don't think the level of effort has been there along the line this year. Even with the mistakes between PW and the WRs, I think we'd be 8-1 if the line was even halfway decent.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:01 PM   #75
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Amazing Buffalo is 7-4. Good for them
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:26 PM   #76
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I'm pretty surprised Turner Gill isn't the hot name for Clemson, Washington, etc. I mean, Lane Kiffin? Over somebody who has won at Buffalo?
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:38 PM   #77
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Over somebody who has won at Buffalo?

But Buffalo has beaten whom that would be impressive to anyone?

Yeah yeah I know, you can only play teams on your schedule & all that, but at the end of the day I can understand why he isn't at the top of major conference programs like you mentioned. I'd be willing to bet that at least one out of five AD's couldn't say with absolute certainty whether Buffalo is D1 or I-AA (not a fan of the new naming convention, it's still I-AA to me).
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:48 PM   #78
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On the other hand how many games has Lane Kiffin won as a head coach? More or less than 7? I'm more commenting on how strange it is that people want to hire him.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:52 PM   #79
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I'm more commenting on how strange it is that people want to hire him.

On that point we agree.
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:18 AM   #80
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I'm not sure why it should matter "who" Gill has beaten. The fact that he has beaten anyone with Buffalo is impressive enough.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:14 AM   #81
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OSU might very well beat UM by 3 scores, but this is going to be a fight. People will be hurting tomorrow morning.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:16 AM   #82
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Exactly what UM can't afford. A big play on D and then they get stopped for two no gains, then a falst start, followed by an incomplete pass and a missed FG.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:23 AM   #83
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Oof. The D is playing well but surprise, surprise, UM muffs the punt and OSU has it at the 49.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:36 AM   #84
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This is the ugliest game I've ever seen. Ever.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:38 AM   #85
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And you can book this one. UM might not get 7 first downs, let alone 7 points.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:38 AM   #86
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Wells 59 yards and the Mishitgin D blinks first.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:40 AM   #87
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Holy shit that boy just got his head ripped off.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:51 AM   #88
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Great news for Mizzou fans. Gary Pinkel has signed a big contract extension. He's basically got a job at Mizzou for as long as he wants to coach.......

ESPN - Missouri, Gary Pinkel agree on big contract extension

How did I know that was coming?

The biggiest enrollment in school history will do that to you.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:52 AM   #89
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After 1 quarter Clemson leads UVA 7-0 on a half back pass from CJ Spiller.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:53 AM   #90
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Something tells me Oklahoma beats Texas Tech today...
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:54 AM   #91
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N.C. State jumps out to an early 10-0 lead over UNC-CH. It's very quiet in Keenan Stadium right now.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:56 AM   #92
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14-0 and things begin to cave n for the Girlverines.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:56 AM   #93
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I need t say though, this isn't nearly as much fun when Mishitgin's team is this badly overmatched.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:00 PM   #94
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Tennessee vs Vandy scoreless in Nashville with 5 mins left in Q1.
Vols QB runs for a first down. Not remarkable really, until I mention that the QB is Eric Berry (the SEC's all-time leader in interception return yards).
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:12 PM   #95
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There must've been a glitch .. Michigan got a first down.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:20 PM   #96
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Didn't Indiana realize they had a game today?
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:21 PM   #97
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Nice drive by UM to punch one in with 2:51 left in the half. 14-7 OSU now. Still, plenty of time for OSU to score before the half, so UM has to get a stop.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:21 PM   #98
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As bad as Michigan has been playing, they're only down 1 touchdown. And the defense has been solid minus those two plays.

Last edited by cmp : 11-22-2008 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:23 PM   #99
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As bad as Michigan has been playing, they're only down 1 touchdown. And the defense has been solid minus those two plays.

I wish no ill will on a college player but I hope Stevie Brown enjoys his Michigan degree and chooses to never step foot on a field ever again.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:23 PM   #100
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There must've been a glitch .. Michigan got a first down.


Some glitch they broke a good run but the blimp shot showed a massive hold on the play. Then again you could call holding on damn near every play so its a moot point.

Gutsy call by RR going for it on 4th down after getting smacked down 3 straight plays. This rivalry might be really good in the future. Have to see what he can do with his recruits.
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