2016-17 NFL Playoffs

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Crown of the helmet into the chin is going to be roughing.

If this were college he'd be ejected.

On a running player? On a receiver, sure, on a QB in the pocket, yes, but not a QB, out of the pocket, acting as a runner. RB's never get calls for crown hits when they are running.

[Arles]

He launched himself and his helmet hit the QB in the chin. I'd say that's a personal foul. It's a little silly that a defense can target your QB with a helmet to the chin and a teammate shoves the offending player and the offense is worst off.

[stevew]

He's out of the pocket.

I dunno why Moore is out there.

[CrescentMoonie]

How does anyone think that's not roughing? It should have been an ejection.

[JPhillips]

I'm sure glad that a dirty team like the Bengals didn't make the playoffs.

[PilotMan]

You guys are fuckin nuts. It's not the same at all.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

On a running player? On a receiver, sure, on a QB in the pocket, yes, but not a QB, out of the pocket, acting as a runner. RB's never get calls for crown hits when they are running.

If that were a WR, it would have been a targeting penalty as well. Remember, he was throwing the ball and not bracing for a hit. I think the WR situation is more appropriate here than a RB bracing for contact.

I can remember 2-3 plays like this during the year where a QB is outside of the pocket and throwing, then takes a helmet to helmet hit. All were called personal fouls. I think the QB in the act of throwing (even outside the pocket) gets more protection than a pure runner.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by stevew

He's out of the pocket.

I dunno why Moore is out there.

Outside the pocket doesn't matter in this case.

When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule and the protection against a low hit, but retains the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket

[PilotMan]

A QB, out of the pocket, with the ball is a runner. Not a receiver.

[PilotMan]

So he should have aimed for his knees? He aims for the chest, and Moore ducks?

[Arles]

That hit was as clear a personal foul as your going to see. It doesn't matter where on the field the QB is throwing from, if you hit his chin with the crown on your helmet, it's a penalty (that is, unless the QB is Cam Newton - then it's allowed).

[Atocep]

Bud Dupree knocked Matt Moore back to Miami. Holy cow pic.twitter.com/avtPvEgEKz

— NFL Update (@MySportsUpdate) January 8, 2017

That's an easy call. I honestly don't see anyone could be upset about it.

[Arles]

Sloppy PIs, numerous offsides, allowing 300 yards of offense and 20 points in a half. If I were Denver, I'd be pretty excited about this Miami Def Coord becoming my next head coach.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

So he should have aimed for his knees? He aims for the chest, and Moore ducks?

1 - They missed the call on Cam Newton in the Broncos opening game. A Denver player should have had the flag thrown and didn't. (He also should have been ejected, just like the Steeler who hit Moore)

2 - The rule book was posted above. The WR comment was an apt one. A player in the act of throwing the ball or making a catch is a defenseless player and you CANNOT hit them in the head. PERIOD. This has been the same rule in effect forever. I don't know why you are acting confused like you have never heard of it before.

3 - I'll say it one more time: if the NFL wants to get serious about dirty, cheap hits like the one that happened to Moore, they need to eject players, not fine then 10 grand after the fact. If you watch that play and think Moore dropped his head into that hit, we'll just agree to disagree. I didn't see it that way at all.

[stevew]

Dirty and cheap, lol. Like Talib?

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

On a running player? On a receiver, sure, on a QB in the pocket, yes, but not a QB, out of the pocket, acting as a runner. RB's never get calls for crown hits when they are running.

HITS TO PASSER’S HEAD AND USE OF HELMET AND FACEMASK
(3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary-roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet
or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET
(8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above,but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers

[Arles]

I think it was a clear personal foul, but I'm not sure it's a dirty hit. It looks like Dupree was aiming for Moore's chest and hit his chin as Moore lowered after making the throw. It was a definite penalty, but I don't think it was dirty.

[CrescentMoonie]

And now the Steelers are knocking teammates out with headhunting hits.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Arles

Sloppy PIs, numerous offsides, allowing 300 yards of offense and 20 points in a half. If I were Denver, I'd be pretty excited about this Miami Def Coord becoming my next head coach.

You mean the defense playing without 3 starting secondary players? I'm not saying I want him or don't want him. (I'll trust Elway in that regard), but I'm not going to judge a guy based on a bad playoff game either.

[stevew]

Deebo!

[Arles]

Originally Posted by TroyF

You mean the defense playing without 3 starting secondary players? I'm not saying I want him or don't want him. (I'll trust Elway in that regard), but I'm not going to judge a guy based on a bad playoff game either.

Miami's D just looks real sloppy. Guys are running wide open and Bell is dicing them up. Maybe it's injuries, but they just don't look like they are on the same page.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by stevew

Dirty and cheap, lol. Like Talib?

EXACTLY like Talib, a guy who I have advocated being ejected on multiple occasions, including last years Super Bowl with the face mask on the 1 yard line. (look it up)

I HATE Talib and despise the fact he's on MY team.

That hit was F'ing dirty. Moore did not lower his head. He threw the ball fully upright. The Steeler had a running start and dropped the crown of his head and charged. That's dirty if a Denver player does it, A Steeler player does it or a team I don't like does it. (For your info, I'm not only cheering for the Steelers this game, I want them to win the AFC)

anytime I advocate for an objection, that's usually where people go. "You HATE MY TEAM" "What about the players on YOUR TEAM who do it"

Well, I don't hate your team, and I've publicly stated that the guys on my team should be ejected and suspended as well. You should probably try another line of defense against me. I might disagree with your point because we all have different opinions, but I won't say you are blatantly wrong either.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

HITS TO PASSER’S HEAD AND USE OF HELMET AND FACEMASK
(3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary-roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet
or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET
(8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above,but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers

I stand corrected in my understanding of the rule. Perhaps it's goes back to when the rules tightened up on it years ago and I remembered a comment exactly as I quoted it, that a QB out of the pocket would be considered a runner, but in that time, they've clearly adjusted the rules again and now it's more clear.

So, hard to call it cheap though. I mean, you're running full steam ahead trying to get there as quick as possible. If Moore had released it and then had been hit a couple steps later, no problem. It was just another one of those bang, bang plays.

I get that the NFL has to protect the players even more (and they're probably still not doing enough from a legal standpoint), but I still don't like the way it's changed from the game we grew up with.

[Atocep]

With the current state of the NFL you're going to see more protections on quarterbacks. The rules have shifted so heavily to favor passing games that you either have a QB or you're not very good.

It's reaching the point where investing in a backup is a waste because there might not be a backup in the league right now capable of winning a playoff game.

A Quarterback getting injured ends your season. NFL teams are going to want to protect them as much as possible.

[CrescentMoonie]

The Dolphins have had their chances. A blown blocking assignment and a blown pre-snap read have killed those chances.

[stevew]

Steelers probably shouldn't throw another pass

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I stand corrected in my understanding of the rule. Perhaps it's goes back to when the rules tightened up on it years ago and I remembered a comment exactly as I quoted it, that a QB out of the pocket would be considered a runner, but in that time, they've clearly adjusted the rules again and now it's more clear.

So, hard to call it cheap though. I mean, you're running full steam ahead trying to get there as quick as possible. If Moore had released it and then had been hit a couple steps later, no problem. It was just another one of those bang, bang plays.

I get that the NFL has to protect the players even more (and they're probably still not doing enough from a legal standpoint), but I still don't like the way it's changed from the game we grew up with.

It's actually quite easy. "DO NOT DROP YOUR HEAD AND LEAD WITH THE CROWN OF YOUR HELMET"

You see that play many times every week, both college and pro. Most guys make that hit legally. It isn't some goofy equation. He points his helmet half a foot left, drives his shoulder into the chest and everyone here is going "GREAT HIT!!!"

Typing this in and watching things, what happens? Yet another Steeler drives his head into an opposing player. Just stop doing that. It's flagrant, it can cause serious injury and in most cases it is avoidable.

[PilotMan]

Moore is moving to the left and Dupree is already moving to cut the angle. He moves too far and Moore stops and lets him go past. Upon looking at it from this angle it's not nearly as hard as it looked full speed. He didn't wrap and drive. He extended his arms on the hit, he didn't follow through, he didn't launch nor did he leave his feet. It's a penalty, but it's not nearly as egregious as it looked full speed.

[NobodyHere]

That still looks terrible. How was that not an ejection?

[CrescentMoonie]

That gif doesn't make it look better. It's a blatant shot to the chin with the crown of the helmet. That absolutely should be an ejection every single time.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think it was a clear personal foul, but I'm not sure it's a dirty hit. It looks like Dupree was aiming for Moore's chest and hit his chin as Moore lowered after making the throw. It was a definite penalty, but I don't think it was dirty.

I'm a Dolphins fan, and the two bolded parts of Arles' post are exactly my interpretation. Don't think it was an ejection.

I do however have a new-found hatred of Mike Mitchell after the first half in particular - what a dirty player.

[miked]

That video makes it look worse. He went right for the head. It's the exact hit the NFL is trying to eliminate.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Put me in the camp with Arles. I see a violent hit, I don't see the tell-tale signatures of "dirty" (he doesn't wrap, he doesn't drive him, etc).

[General Mike]

Roberto Duran Beckham Jr. strikes again

[General Mike]

Giants D playing very well.

[AlexB]

Blatant push off there by Cobb...

[CrescentMoonie]

Well, that play happened.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Blatant push off there by Cobb...

That's on the defence. It wasn't worse than any pushing from both sides that happens on every single hail mary.

[AlexB]

On the replay it was at least to the chest of Apple, I thought at first it was in the back.

What Apple is doing with his back to the ball on a hail mary... I'm not sure.

[bhlloy]

At what point do teams facing the Packers replace the special teams portions of their practices with hail mary drills?

And sure, there's going to be PI both ways on any hail mary play, but how you let a guy behind you... man

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

That's on the defence. It wasn't worse than any pushing from both sides that happens on every single hail mary.

Plus the defender who he pushed was facing the wrong way anyway.

[NobodyHere]

Note to self: never field a kickoff at the 3 and step out of bounds

[Brian Swartz]

Better than not fielding it at all, a la Buffalo.

[General Mike]

Giants played good for the first 25 minutes of this game or so. All downhill since then.

[Carman Bulldog]

Good thing that the Giants knocked Jordy Nelson out so that Green Bay could get their passing game going!?

[Jas_lov]

That weekend trip to Miami really hurt the Giants. It became a distraction, the receivers dropped balls and they weren't prepared at all.

The Packers have a good shot to run the table. If only Jordy hadn't gotten hurt. I don't think he'll be able to play next week.

[wustin]

Looked at the box score and Green Bay had 12 passes defended sweet jesus.

[Jas_lov]

And this weekend is a good case not to expand the playoffs. Not a single good game. Next week, Patriots - Texans will be 60-3 but the other 3 are good match ups.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by AlexB

I'm a Dolphins fan, and the two bolded parts of Arles' post are exactly my interpretation. Don't think it was an ejection.

I do however have a new-found hatred of Mike Mitchell after the first half in particular - what a dirty player.

Oh yeah Steelers fan but Mitchell is a real piece of shit player

[stevew]

How was Moore cleared so quickly by a physician?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/...cid=spartanntp