Any folks going to play Warhammer Online:Age Of Reckoning

[Capital]

I've played a fair amount of MMOs on the market, LOTRO, WOW, Age of Conan but I'm not completely understanding the concept of RvR. Would any of you veterans out there care to basically get me up to speed?

I'll probably pick up this game as I'm about through with Age of Conan.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

The long term playability in this game lives and dies with the fun of RvR/PvP. It was hard to fully judge that in beta, so we'll see.

I disagree that it lives and dies with RvR/PvP. If they succeed, that will help the game's longevity; however, I know that there a lot of people in WoW (and other MMORPGs) that are more interested in high level content such as elaborate raids, daily quests, etc.

I think that if those two things are successful, the game could take a large chunk of bored WoW players, since the games are pretty similar in a lot of ways.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I disagree that it lives and dies with RvR/PvP. If they succeed, that will help the game's longevity; however, I know that there a lot of people in WoW (and other MMORPGs) that are more interested in high level content such as elaborate raids, daily quests, etc.

Which, Warhammer is not for those people. This is not, and from everything I know, will never be, a huge PvE / raid / etc game. Warhammer's prime audience for playerbase is rather different than WoW's.

(not that Mythic would mind too much if they saw WoW's numbers, but the focus is entirely different)

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Capital

I've played a fair amount of MMOs on the market, LOTRO, WOW, Age of Conan but I'm not completely understanding the concept of RvR. Would any of you veterans out there care to basically get me up to speed.

In simplest terms, large scale PvP, that involves controlling portions of the game world, laying siege to keeps, etc, etc. It's really just PvP with a little more strategy.

Phrase was coined in Dark Age of Camelot when it was 3 'realms' going at it against each other.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Which, Warhammer is not for those people. This is not, and from everything I know, will never be, a huge PvE / raid / etc game. Warhammer's prime audience for playerbase is rather different than WoW's.

(not that Mythic would mind too much if they saw WoW's numbers, but the focus is entirely different)

Hmm...well I'm sure they can do both. Maybe they'll see that there is profit in preying on the WoW raiders (like my wife), and slowly expand that as much as PvP.

I've been playing for a week or so, and I haven't seen anything that suggests it won't be a very good PvE game. If at high levels the game becomes a big, boring game of capture the flag/frag fest, I won't stay. Hopefully they'll realize that they'll lose people like me, and slowly add some more high level content.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I've been playing for a week or so, and I haven't seen anything that suggests it won't be a very good PvE game. If at high levels the game becomes a big, boring game of capture the flag/frag fest, I won't stay. Hopefully they'll realize that they'll lose people like me, and slowly add some more high level content.

They tried that with DAoC, and to me that's what killed the game. For DAoC, the second expansion was all about high end PVE-content, and completely disrupted the RVR-aspect of the game.

People playing DAoC did so primarily for the RVR-aspect and once they hit 50 (Max level) they were relieved.. that's where the end-game was, that's what levelling was all about.

When ToA (Trials of Atlantis) came along, a whole bunch of items came into the picture that were much more powerful than what was otherwise available, basically forcing people who wanted to be competitive in RVR to "go back to the grind" of getting items only available through PVE-grinding/raiding. This killed the interest for the core fanbase.

I guess this has a lot to do with implementation though, since the grind in ToA was next to unbearable. Coffee Warlord will probably agree with that assessment. The whole scroll farming was what really made me quit DAoC.

The whole aspect of levelling to me, is to get to the end game. If the end game would be more of the same thing (i.e. PVE) I wouldn't be happy .

[Lonnie]

They had one podcast on how the RVR/PVE changes on the ramp up to 40. In the beginning you have a Tier 1 zone that is 1/4 RVR and 3/4 PVE. As you progress through the tiers they gradually move in opposite directions where when you get to the highest tier it will be 1/4 PVE and 3/4 RVR in a zone. So the high end raid in this game will be to capture some elaborate keep playing against real enemies. Culminating in the capture of the enemy's city.

That's exactly what I want. I hate PVE. Especially long boring raids against scripted AI that is the same time after time only to get a chance to roll on some nice piece of loot.

My only worries at this point are that the Destruction population considerably outnumbers the Order population on every server. That's why I went Order. I hope people don't quit out of frustration just because they are always outnumbered.

[Calis]

I think maybe people are giving some of the RvR too much credit for being exciting and more involved than PvE raids. I went on a crapload of raids in Dark Age and the majority of them involved tons of sitting around waiting, and endless slogs against guards, doors, and lag. It's not as glorious as you'd think.

Now when RvR does work it's a complete blast and PvE content doesn't compare imo, but the actual raids(especially Relics in DA, keeps were a much simpler affair) can be pretty mind numbing.

[Schmidty]

I don't mean this in a bad way, because I'm sure it's not any of your cases, but from all of the MMORPGs I've played, PvPers were generally young and/or obnoxious; whereas Raid Guilds were groups of friends who thought of "the grind" of a raid as a strategic endeavor, as opposed to Battleground RvR stuff where some 12 year old is always yelling "git teh farm, you fukers!!!!!" constantly. Very rarely do people PUG the high, high end instances. It's usually a strong guild where people mesh fairly well, and enjoy each other for the most part.

I do understand the problem with PvE gear vs. PvP gear; however, WoW has solved that with the new honor point system, Arena, and extremely nicely tiered items that can ONLY be won by PvPers. If WAR couldn't eventually do the same thing, it would be a shame, and honestly it would be lazy and incompetent-ish.

Just my 2 cents.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I don't mean this in a bad way, because I'm sure it's not any of your cases, but from all of the MMORPGs I've played, PvPers were generally young and/or obnoxious; whereas Raid Guilds were groups of friends who thought of "the grind" of a raid as a strategic endeavor, as opposed to Battleground RvR stuff where some 12 year old is always yelling "git teh farm, you fukers!!!!!" constantly. Very rarely do people PUG the high, high end instances. It's usually a strong guild where people mesh fairly well, and enjoy each other for the most part.

I'm guessing you didn't play Camelot.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I'm guessing you didn't play Camelot.

Yeah, I did for a month or 2 at launch, but even though it was obviously a quality game, it just felt slow (from what I remember).

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Yeah, I did for a month or 2 at launch, but even though it was obviously a quality game, it just felt slow (from what I remember).

Only reason I bring it up 'cause it was the last MMORPG that actually had large-scale PvP as the centerpiece. Which didn't generate the horribly obnoxious little kiddies.

[Lonnie]

I'd have to disagree as well. Our RvR/PvP in DAoC was very tight and organized. We would run eight man groups built of complementary classes. Our guild was very mature and did not accept your 12 yo reference players. In fact the scene you reference sounds like PvP in WoW to me. I didn't run across many young asshats while playing DAoC.

[sabotai]

I've PvP'ed quite a bit in WoW and never noticed any "obnoxious kiddies". Once in a long while there'd be some moron who thought he was Patton trying to tell everyone what to do, but then again, I've been in guilds that fell apart because someone in charge was an ass.

So far I have not noticed that at all in WAR, and playing in Khaine's Embrace (battleground) is what I've been doing most of the time.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

In fact the scene you reference sounds like PvP in WoW to me.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant, and even though I was never a big PvPer, the fact that the BGs and stuff in WoW are overrun by little turds, turned me against PvPing even more. Not only that, my wife is/was the gm for a very large guild that started pretty much at the launch of the game, so it's pretty much a huge group of friends, which makes raiding a lot of fun. Even so, a lot of them (even my wife, I think) still PvP because some of the gear is so kick ass.

Anyway, I'm going to try to forget my bad WoW PvP experiences, and give WAR a chance. I still think they can balance PvP and PvE - WoW has proven that.

[Schmidty]

Dola.

Originally Posted by sabotai

So far I have not noticed that at all in WAR, and playing in Khaine's Embrace (battleground) is what I've been doing most of the time.

Well, I've noticed in WAR that there's zero chatter at all. In fact, there doesn't even seem to be any global or General chat channel (which is good and bad).

[Coder]

Schmidty, you need to try RvR

You keep saying PvP, which is understandable, but PVP does not automatically equal RvR.

RvR means large scale (or small scale, i.e. 1-2 groups) battles for objectives, for which you are rewarded not only with "renown" and xp, but also reputation amongst your fellow players.

While I do enjoy the battlegrounds (i.e. Guns of Nordholm and Khaine's Embrace), in DAoC, nothing compared to keep sieges or, in the old frontiers, gate fights. Pure awesomeness. You were never in any "safe spots" during a siege, since humans outsmart any mob AI you've ever seen; or another group might actually come in from a flank and surprise you when you were bashing on a keep-door to get in. I simply cannot explain it, but it's nothing like WoW BGs, or any other PvP gankfest you might have encountered.

There were several ways to enjoy RVR in DAoC, 8vs8, zerg vs zerg, sieges etc..

To me, however, what I never enjoyed about WoW, was that everything in the BGs was about getting items. In Daoc, winning meant your entire realm got benefits.. exp-multipliers, golddrop-multipliers etc.. not just about you and your "honor" leading towards a new set of boots for yourself.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Dola.



Well, I've noticed in WAR that there's zero chatter at all. In fact, there doesn't even seem to be any global or General chat channel (which is good and bad).

There is, though it's not very "chatty" even on the European servers where I currently play. /1 is a sort of general chat, but like you said, it's kind of quiet.

It's really nice that once you enter a warzone, you can see which warbands/groups are active and you can join them right away, and then you have a warband-chat. There is usually more chatter there than in /1.

[Radii]

WoW PvP isn't good PvP, that's just all there is to it. Fun minigames for some, sure, and with arenas another way to progress quest and sink a ton of time into something for rewards(which is fine, I get hooked into those time sinks all the time in these games). But WoW PVP is just so, so bad.

In fact, my biggest complaint about Warhammer so far is that the tier 1 RvR scenarios are essentially WoW pvp scenarios. I'm sure that was done on purpose to ease the transition for people potentially leaving WoW for WAR, but it leaves a dirty taste in my mouth and just makes me want to get out of tier 1 RvR as fast as possible.

I don't mean this in a bad way, because I'm sure it's not any of your cases, but from all of the MMORPGs I've played, PvPers were generally young and/or obnoxious; whereas Raid Guilds were groups of friends who thought of "the grind" of a raid as a strategic endeavor, as opposed to Battleground RvR stuff where some 12 year old is always yelling "git teh farm, you fukers!!!!!" constantly. Very rarely do people PUG the high, high end instances. It's usually a strong guild where people mesh fairly well, and enjoy each other for the most part.

I would contest the bolded parts a little as well. WoW dumbed down combat quite a bit so that more casual groups defeat most encounters. In older games(Everquest comes to mind) and earlier on in WoW before the content gets nerfed to hell, you really needed well geared, addicted, type A personalities dominating raid guilds. Also, I believe you'll find that all the guilds that get to all the new content first are full of people that cannot stand each other, but share a common goal of wanting to beat the new content first, fastest, and most efficiently.

I think its great what WoW has done in allowing more casual, friendly guilds to work together to accomplish things on a raid scale, but I think your comments are a generalization. The world of raiding MMO's that I'm used to are not at all what you describe

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Radii

I think its great what WoW has done in allowing more casual, friendly guilds to work together to accomplish things on a raid scale, but I think your comments are a generalization. The world of raiding MMO's that I'm used to are not at all what you describe

This.

And to add to it, WoW has the worst community in any MMO I've ever played. Before WoW I had never seen a game that didn't have a very helpful community that was quick to offer advice, directions, and help in any way possible. If you were to ask for help in WoW it'd take less than 5 seconds to be accused of Ebaying.

DAoC was much more centered on guilds and alliances rather than the individual player and that aspect tends to either remove or at least mute the obnoxiousness that you see a lot of times from WoW PvPers. WAR is no different from what I've seen so far. I've seen more teamwork in 3 days of scenarios than I did my entire time pvping in pugs in WoW. You can be the best 1v1 player on a server and if you can't follow directions and work well with your team you probably aren't going to find a decent guild.

WoW entertained me for quite some time and pushed MMOs to a new level, but the game is sort of the McDonald's of MMOs. It offers something for just about everyone and is easily accessible, but there are better experiences out there if you can find the game that specializes in what you enjoy.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Radii

I think its great what WoW has done in allowing more casual, friendly guilds to work together to accomplish things on a raid scale, but I think your comments are a generalization. The world of raiding MMO's that I'm used to are not at all what you describe

Maybe we just got lucky right away as far as friends go, because the dozens and dozens of people in our guild (s) over the years have become real friends and the raids are just a bonus to the socialization, especially with Ventrillo, team speak, etc. We've actually met a few of them, and a good friend is moving from Montreal to BC, so we're going to have dinner with them next month.

Like I said either you guys have had really bad luck, or we've had really good luck.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Like I said either you guys have had really bad luck, or we've had really good luck.

Nah, its not luck, its choice. When I decide to play one of these games, its with an unhealthy obsession for being first, fastest, and "best." I *want* to play with the type A assholes because I want to push to do everything as fast and efficiently as possible. That's not to say I play only with people I hate or anything like that, I have a close knit group of friends that I would do instances/heroics with in WoW, but in a 40 man raid, there were probably 10 people I liked, and probably 10 that I would like to put on /ignore, and then a bunch in the middle that I could really care less about. But, they were the most driven players on the server and shared the same goals I did, so I was more than happy to raid with them, even if I couldn't stand some of them

[Schmidty]

So I'm making a couple of characters on Ulthuan. Is that going to be the FOFC server, and if so, are we going Order or Chaos?

[Galaril]

Here is a question from a more casual MMOs. I have only played the LOTR MMO and am wondering how this one War compares to it for solo (PVE) play? I almost never had the time or inclination to join up much with others and just generally enjoyed wandering around LOTR doing quests on my own. How would this game be for that?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Here is a question from a more casual MMOs. I have only played the LOTR MMO and am wondering how this one War compares to it for solo (PVE) play? I almost never had the time or inclination to join up much with others and just generally enjoyed wandering around LOTR doing quests on my own. How would this game be for that?

You could play the game solo and mostly pve to 40, but it would get tough once you hit the 30s (to stick with PvE) and on top of that once you hit 40 there's not a lot of PvE content.

You'd probably enjoy the first 20 or so levels, but at that point the game starts funneling players more and more into the RvR aspect of the game and I can't imagine someone enjoying RvR solo.

[Lonnie]

My friends and I have formed a guild on Iron Rock called Righteous Order.

Obviously we are Order. It's a core server.

Feel free to join us if you are looking for a server. My characters are Londar, Barrington, Sweetshot, Veran, and Thumbs. (I wanted to get all the names I wanted reserved)

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

So I'm making a couple of characters on Ulthuan. Is that going to be the FOFC server, and if so, are we going Order or Chaos?

yeah I haven't officially hung my hat on a server yet...so I am curious...where is the bulk of the contingent and what Realm are they playing?

[tyketime]

Ugh... I just plunked down $50 to play this game only to find out that it terminates when I try to play it because my graphics card doesn't support Vertex Shader 2

And I followed the directions to create the online account first, so I have "activated" the code. I just discovered and checked this website (System Requirements Lab) where it will check your computer against a long list of games to see if it meets the requirements. My laptop passes, so I'm installing it on that instead. I hear the game runs slower on laptops. If it is a problem, I may have a "slightly used" coaster.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by tyketime

Ugh... I just plunked down $50 to play this game only to find out that it terminates when I try to play it because my graphics card doesn't support Vertex Shader 2

And I followed the directions to create the online account first, so I have "activated" the code. I just discovered and checked this website (System Requirements Lab) where it will check your computer against a long list of games to see if it meets the requirements. My laptop passes, so I'm installing it on that instead. I hear the game runs slower on laptops. If it is a problem, I may have a "slightly used" coaster.

It flies on my laptop, but I bought a gaming specific laptop.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

My friends and I have formed a guild on Iron Rock called Righteous Order.

Obviously we are Order. It's a core server.

Feel free to join us if you are looking for a server. My characters are Londar, Barrington, Sweetshot, Veran, and Thumbs. (I wanted to get all the names I wanted reserved)

Just joined....Dolgan is my character.

[Lonnie]

Cool, if I am not around just ask someone in Righteous Order for an invite. Rogi should be able to help you out. Tell him Londar sent you.

[Bonegavel]

so, any further thoughts on the game to date? I hated WoW. I liked CoH but only with the large population of FOFCers. Solo sucks balls (in a bad way).

[MacroGuru]

I am loving the public quest aspect of this game and the influence points and rewards. I am still just starting with it and will be getting more involved tonight and other nights as my time begins to free up.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

so, any further thoughts on the game to date? I hated WoW. I liked CoH but only with the large population of FOFCers. Solo sucks balls (in a bad way).

Leveling is slow, and so far all the scenarios are just that, WoW pvp scenarios copied over to a new game. To me, leveling via pvp'ing in scenarios has already turned into the same grind that any sort of other PVE leveling would be. That will be fine as long as at 40 people stop doing dumbass scenarios and start fighting over keeps.

[Apathetic Lurker]

I'm on Iron Rock trying out a nice and quiet religious type named Papieros

[Calis]

I played this some over the weekend. I was cautious going in as MMO's have run their course for me. I always feel dirty after a play session, and I'm never quite sure if I actually enjoyed what I was doing or not. It's an odd feeling.

This game doesn't really change that. I do love the Public Quest system, and I think that's one thing we will see become standard-fare for all MMO's after this. Really neat idea, and it breaks up the grind.

The regular quests themselves are the same as ever, and pretty dull. I had fun doing a scenario, but I think actually levelling that way would be just as if not more tedious than doing it PvE. It's fun in spurts, but with the lack of any long-lasting arc to it pretty shallow.

The game is good enough though. It runs well, I haven't had any crashes or lag which is a first for me during the opening week of an MMO. I don't think it'll convert anyone who didn't like the genre before, but I think it's a more solid effort than Conan for instance.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

I'm on Iron Rock trying out a nice and quiet religious type named Papieros

I can't decide what class I like for Order. I know that I really like Bright Wizard and Witch Hunter, but there seems to be a ton of them.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I can't decide what class I like for Order. I know that I really like Bright Wizard and Witch Hunter, but there seems to be a ton of them.

Being a warrior priest is very gratifying in public quests...everyone wants you and you can still get lots of points just from healing. Wasnt sure if I wanted to party just yet, but tried it and it rocked..... The only negative is the lack of chat during combat and in general, even "in party"... Not at all like LOTRO where i run my fingers to the bone in my kin

bright wizards were a dime a dozen on my server(iron rock)

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

Being a warrior priest is very gratifying in public quests...everyone wants you and you can still get lots of points just from healing. Wasnt sure if I wanted to party just yet, but tried it and it rocked..... The only negative is the lack of chat during combat and in general, even "in party"... Not at all like LOTRO where i run my fingers to the bone in my kin

bright wizards were a dime a dozen on my server(iron rock)

I am Dolgan on Iron Rock, I am loving it and when they say tank...they mean tank...it's a blast...

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

I am Dolgan on Iron Rock, I am loving it and when they say tank...they mean tank...it's a blast...

So wait, are you a tank, or a Warrior Priest?

[Lonnie]

No Dolgan (MacroGuru) is an Ironbreaker, a real tank. Warrior Priest is a hybrid fighter/healer class.

[SirFozzie]

Finally got the game, installing it now. I can't wait to smack some of you guys here

[Radii]

I rerolled a Bright Wizard and so far, am finding it much, much more fun than Ironbreaker.

[Schmidty]

I'm still here on Iron Rock or whatever. I need to join the guild.

I've just got alt-itus. I can't decide on a class. I think right that right now, even though I don't like being a tank, I'm looking at a shield version of the Swordmaster.

[Lonnie]

Just give me a tell on whichever one you decide to play. You can add all your alts, we're not picky.

I'm usually on Londar or Barrington.

[astrosfan64]

I have my guild up and running on the beckafan server. We are order. Send mahja a tell if any of you guys want in.

It is an OPEN PVP server and Order is outnumbered. We actually like to play that way.

Have fun, the game is a blast.

[SirFozzie]

Ok, are we doing a FOFC guild and if so, what server?

[Lonnie]

Well we were very disorganized at launch, so people are spread out a bit. A few of us are Order on Iron Rock, which is a Core server. Our guild, Righteous Order is level 6 already.

[Fidatelo]

I just bought the game from a friend and played for an hour or so. Seems fun, but almost identical to WoW so far. I'll play around with it for the next couple weeks, but I'm a little underwhelmed so far (not really sure what I expected, I guess it is what it is).

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I just bought the game from a friend and played for an hour or so. Seems fun, but almost identical to WoW so far. I'll play around with it for the next couple weeks, but I'm a little underwhelmed so far (not really sure what I expected, I guess it is what it is).

The game really doesn't play anything like WoW. It looks similiar, but that is because blizzard copied Warhammers art many years ago.

The gameplay itself is very PVP focused. In fact you can level your character to 40, by just PVPing. You can even get good drops off of people you kill.