Pats steal a draft pick from Al Davis in his sleep

[EagleFan]

I really don't know what is funnier:

The Raiders or the Patriots fans commenting on that story acting as if they just traded Brady away.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

so Oakland has a great backfield but Dallas' is only solid?

FWIW I'm a Giants fan so there is no love for the Cowgirls.

Actually the Raiders do have exceptional talent at RB between Mcfadden and Bush with Fargas as a reserve Considering the Raiders passing game and defense ranking 9th last year in rushing is pretty impressive. TD's have a lot to do with your passing game and defense, and putting the runners in position to score. That was rare for the Raiders.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I really don't know what is funnier:

The Raiders or the Patriots fans commenting on that story acting as if they just traded Brady away.

At least Seymour is a proven player. Over on Bengals.com the forums areloaded with people who think cutting Chris Pressley was the worst personal move of the past decade.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

Actually the Raiders do have exceptional talent at RB between Mcfadden and Bush with Fargas as a reserve Considering the Raiders passing game and defense ranking 9th last year in rushing is pretty impressive. TD's have a lot to do with your passing game and defense, and putting the runners in position to score. That was rare for the Raiders.

Do the Jets have exceptional talent at WR because they were ranked 9th in receiving last year.

Until a Raiders back steps up and has a 1300/ 12 TD season there is no way I consider them talented.

[Danny]

Look at context Lathum. The Raiders had the makings for a poor run offense. No passing attack, terrible run defense which allows the other team to control the clock and build leads. It is impressive that despite all that they ranked 4th in the league. And they will be better this year with Mcfadden and Bush seeing more touches over Fargas.

Also, considering they will be using three different backs that isn't going to happen. Oh and Brandon Jacobs hasn't hit 1300 yards either, he must suck too.

Considering the Raiders had a terrible passing attack, and probably the worst run defense in the league and still managed to win 5 games is indicative they have a little bit of talent some where. That pretty much is the RB's and starting CB's. Apply your definition to all teams, there is maybe what 4 or 5 teams talented at RB. Just because a team doesn't have a 1300 yard rusher doesn't mean their RB's as a whole are not talented.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

Also, considering they will be using three different backs that isn't going to happen. Oh and Brandon Jacobs hasn't hit 1300 yards either, he must suck too.

.

gimme a break.

Jacobs went for 1100 and 15 TD's while missing 3 games.

The Raiders backs have talent and I get the passing game effects that. My point is the Nite is trying to make it sound like the Raiders are headed in the right direction and they aren't.

There are other backs in the league who put up much bigger number is just as bad situations. Smith, Gore, Forte, Jackson, etc...

There are guys who put up much bigger numbers with equally bad QB/ OL situations.

Defending the Raiders or saying they have any semblance of an organized plan of insanity.

[Cap Ologist]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

"Hey Richard, how's it going?"

"Pretty good. I'm really excited about the season. We got a great team. I look forward to playing for another Superbowl."

"Yeah, about that..."


**************

"Hey Richard, how's it going?"

"Pretty good. I'm excited to help you guys rebuild."

"Great. go line up for the 40 yard dash. The top 22 times will make the starting lineup."

"Uhhhhh....."

lol

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Defending the Raiders or saying they have any semblance of an organized plan of insanity.

Where did I say any of that? I simply said they have a talented group of running backs.

Since you brought it up, until proven otherwise I do believe the Raiders are a franchise in disarray. Hopefully one of these years things will change, but I am not getting my hopes up. Fortunately I will have my fantasy teams and there are some others teams i enjoy rooting for on a secondary basis as well.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

Where did I say any of that? I simply said they have a talented group of running backs.

Since you brought it up, until proven otherwise I do believe the Raiders are a franchise in disarray. Hopefully one of these years things will change, but I am not getting my hopes up. Fortunately I will have my fantasy teams and there are some others teams i enjoy rooting for on a secondary basis as well.

I never said you did, in fact I was very clear is saying it was Nite that was.

[NiteMaestro]

Originally Posted by Lathum

gimme a break.

Jacobs went for 1100 and 15 TD's while missing 3 games.

The Raiders backs have talent and I get the passing game effects that. My point is the Nite is trying to make it sound like the Raiders are headed in the right direction and they aren't.

There are other backs in the league who put up much bigger number is just as bad situations. Smith, Gore, Forte, Jackson, etc...

There are guys who put up much bigger numbers with equally bad QB/ OL situations.

Defending the Raiders or saying they have any semblance of an organized plan of insanity.

My point is not so much that the Raiders are heading in the right direction (since we really don't know/cannot say), but more that they seem to resemble the old Raider teams, and that Davis, however crazy he is, has proved folks wrong enough that we should *shrug* rather than *scold*.
The Raiders have clear potential, and Davis is a big part of that. So give him some credit.

[NiteMaestro]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I never said you did, in fact I was very clear is saying it was Nite that was.

I'm more of defending Davis than the Raiders.

I feel that one's history should come into play with these things, and given Davis's history (crazy moves, that somehow work). I say wait and see... This may be one of those moves that years later seem genius.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NiteMaestro

I'm more of defending Davis than the Raiders.

How can you defend one without the other, he is judge, jury and executioner.

I feel that one's history should come into play with these things, and given Davis's history (crazy moves, that somehow work). I say wait and see... This may be one of those moves that years later seem genius.

What move is that exactly, look at the last 4-5 draft classes. They are dreadful. Compound that with the terrible free agent signings and inability to keep a quality coach and what is there to defend?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by NiteMaestro

I'm more of defending Davis than the Raiders.

IP check please.

[NiteMaestro]

Originally Posted by Lathum

How can you defend one without the other, he is judge, jury and executioner.



What move is that exactly, look at the last 4-5 draft classes. They are dreadful. Compound that with the terrible free agent signings and inability to keep a quality coach and what is there to defend?

Davis runs the Raiders, but the Raiders are the players themselves in my mind. Basically, Front Office, vs. the Field.

And are you suggesting we should let 4-5 years overshadow his over 50(ish) total? So he's having a rough spot right now, like JoePa did not too long ago... His history gives him a 'pass' in my mind. He took some risks, they didn't quite work. But who's Al Davis but a man who takes risks?

Maybe he got rid of the pick because he didn't feel comfortable with it? Didn't see anyone he liked that may come out in the draft?
Who knows?

Let's not forget, this trade makes the Raider defense alot more formidable, as with him and Ellis, there is a very good pass rush, combined with very good press corners...

[Logan]

I....P....check....please!!!!

[NiteMaestro]

Originally Posted by Logan

I....P....check....please!!!!

I'm off topic??
I didn't think so, but my bad if I am...

[stevew]

how the AI?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Jacobs went for 1100 and 15 TD's while missing 3 games.

O-VER-RA-TED

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

O-VER-RA-TED

[panerd]

Originally Posted by NiteMaestro

I'm off topic??
I didn't think so, but my bad if I am...

Not at all. I have some blackjack questions for you though...

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by NiteMaestro

And are you suggesting we should let 4-5 years overshadow his over 50(ish) total?

No, the last 15 years, except the brief period when John Gruden earned his trust and was calling the shots have been a train wreck.

I mean Elizabeth Taylor was smoking in her day, but you would ignore her last 4-5 years and man up, right?

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by panerd

Not at all. I have some blackjack questions for you though...

Its not the game for him....

[Jughead Spock]

Wow. I didn't think there was anyone left to defend Al. I've been a lifelong Raiders fan, but I'm on hiatus until he's gone.

Let's look at some of these moves lately, just off the top of my head.

Warren Sapp
Larry Brown
DeAngelo Hall - and yeah, everyone universally derided this move as typical Al Davis - 'I don't care if he can play, he's FAST!'
Javon Walker

Or how about draft picks
Heyward-Bey - 20+ picks higher than ANYONE would've thought. Questionable hands, which is always nice in a WR.
Mitchell - a 5th round pick taken in the 2nd.
Russell - Cannon for an arm, no work ethic. Yippee.
Janikowski in the first round. He's NEVER been clutch.

The coaches
White
Bugel
"TRADING" Gruden away. Like an 'oops, I made a good move, better get rid of him.
Callahan
Turner
Shell re-tread, after firing him too soon earlier (also, see Shanahan).
Kiffin and that whole embarrassing debacle
Cable - because nobody else wanted it.


And to go back further, I started losing respect for Al with how he handled Marcus Allen, probably my all-time favorite player. Then there was suing the City of Oakland many times over, even though they're pretty much bankrupt as it is.

Al is indefensible. Just because he finds a gem once every 4-5 years doesn't excuse his awful management overall.

ETA: NAMMdee AssaMOOwa is the best CB in football. Surprised the Raiders re-signed him.

[stevew]

It's fairly easy to sign a player when you offer him the franchise tender for 3 consecutive seasons, pretty much all guaranteed. He probably has the best contract in football right now.

[JS19]

Originally Posted by NiteMaestro

Look at what I said.
I said he's a threat *throwing the ball deep*.
That's key.

He's not going to have alot of throws, but his YPA and YPC averages should be high because of it. He's a 'big play' QB. One you get for that and that alone.



Russell will beat you deep.

Not claiming to be a football guru whatsoever, so I may be way off base here, but what has Russell done to make him any type of QB, let alone a "big play QB"? To me, he is just another athletic guy who was able to dominate college kids, but will never make it in the NFL.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by stevew

how the AI?

That's what I have been thinking all weekend.

[stevew]

Nah, this dude uses tense and structure that leads me to believe he's not JB.

Brassmonkey32 on the other hand......

[BishopMVP]

I love rooting for a team/front office that has the job security and confidence to do what's right for the long-term interests of the club, and not sell out the future to win now/keep a job.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

Not at all. I have some blackjack questions for you though...

Make one bad draft pick, if that doesn't work out next year make two bad draft picks, if that doesn't work out next year make foour bad draft picks, if that doesn't work out maybe NFL owner/ GM/ CEO/ Director of player personal isn't for you.

[dubb93]

In all seriousness here I think so highly of the AFC West that I'm willing to predict the Raiders will finish second in the AFC West....somewhere around 6-7 games out of first place though.

[jeff061]

Cable: Real quickly about the Richard Seymour issue. We have attempted to make a deal. There are some issues still between him and the Patriots that are being worked out. Hoping that will be resolved as quickly as possible. We know that the player wants to be here, but we have no control really over those issues. That’s really all I’m going to talk about it for now.
Q: Can you tell us how you know he wants to be here? Have you spoken with him?
Cable: I have talked to him.
Q: So he said he wants to be here?
Cable: Yes.

I can not figure out what the holdup would be if Seymour is really trying to get to Oakland. Anyone have any insight?

Before this the only holdup I was aware of would be Seymour refusing to take a physical, which would get ugly, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol - why would he want to be in oakland?

[jeff061]

Not a clue in the world. Good chance someone is lying I suppose. Cable saying Seymour wants to be there and that he spoke to him about it surprised me far more than Seymour being a no show.

Seymour is the type to calmly and quietly blow this deal. Ugh, that would be a mess.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaaah - this from 11:47am today

seems likely to me he's holding out to demand that the team won't use the franchise tag on him, or else for an extension. let's hope it's not for the franchise-tag thing and that whatever it is contractually gets worked out, otherwise i could see him being a real PITA about this

Originally Posted by sf chronicle raiders blog

The Raiders just went through a late morning walk-through, and no sign of defensive lineman Richard Seymour reporting for duty.
UPDATE: Seymour is not with the team for the afternoon practice and has not reported for a physical. He hasn't been issued a jersey number or locker, a team official said.
The Raiders traded for the five-time Pro Bowler early Sunday morning, so it's not like he hasn't had a chance to hop on a plane from Boston. But with school-aged children and no season opener until Monday, maybe he's just not in a rush.
In the NFL, a deal isn't a deal until the player takes and passes a physical with his new team. So when should fans worry this blockbuster deal may become a headache?
It depends on what Raiders coach Tom Cable says after the 12:45 p.m. practice. On Sunday afternoon, he said he had not spoken with Seymour yet. If he says the same today, then, yeah, something is uo.
Seymour is angry about the trade, according to SI.com writer Peter King, citing a Seymour friend who said he may not report.
So then what?
The guys at profootballtalk.com laid out what happens next, per a league spokesman. In short, he'd get a five-day letter before putting him on a reserve/left squad list. But once he's on that list, he can't play for anyone in 2009 -- the Raiders included. His contract would then roll into 2010, keeping him from becoming an unrestricted free agent.
It's unlikely Seymour will force his way back onto the Patriots roster. He could hold out for a contract extension before reporting to Oakland -- remember, this is a guy who held out twice on the Pats. Or, he could demand the team does not use the franchise tag on him after his contract expires at season's end.
Maybe this is a lot of talk about nothing. The sooner Seymour reports for duty, the sooner everyone stops wondering what's going on.

[NiteMaestro]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

That's what I have been thinking all weekend.

Nope. Not Jim in a 'different form', so I have no clue whatsoever.
But I do have some ideas...

Originally Posted by JS19

Not claiming to be a football guru whatsoever, so I may be way off base here, but what has Russell done to make him any type of QB, let alone a "big play QB"? To me, he is just another athletic guy who was able to dominate college kids, but will never make it in the NFL.

When I say 'Big Play' when referring to a QB, I mean that they have some elite athletic tool that makes them capable of producing big plays 'easier' than your average QB. With Russell, it's his arm and size. He can throw the deep ball alot quicker and easier than "Joe Schmo" and his size makes him more difficult to sack in the pocket. Given that, a burner-style receiver can just gun it off the line, Russell take a 3 step drop and launch it, and watch the fireworks.

Would it work? More likely than not, No.
But the threat of it forces teams to respect it.

[gstelmack]

Well, the obvious question would be if Seymour was so settled in New England, why has he been so difficult with contract issues?

But most likely he was hoping to get traded to someone good, and New England sent him to the highest bidder.

[NiteMaestro]

Originally Posted by Jughead Spock

Wow. I didn't think there was anyone left to defend Al. I've been a lifelong Raiders fan, but I'm on hiatus until he's gone.

Let's look at some of these moves lately, just off the top of my head.

Warren Sapp
Larry Brown
DeAngelo Hall - and yeah, everyone universally derided this move as typical Al Davis - 'I don't care if he can play, he's FAST!'
Javon Walker

Or how about draft picks
Heyward-Bey - 20+ picks higher than ANYONE would've thought. Questionable hands, which is always nice in a WR.
Mitchell - a 5th round pick taken in the 2nd.
Russell - Cannon for an arm, no work ethic. Yippee.
Janikowski in the first round. He's NEVER been clutch.

The coaches
White
Bugel
"TRADING" Gruden away. Like an 'oops, I made a good move, better get rid of him.
Callahan
Turner
Shell re-tread, after firing him too soon earlier (also, see Shanahan).
Kiffin and that whole embarrassing debacle
Cable - because nobody else wanted it.


And to go back further, I started losing respect for Al with how he handled Marcus Allen, probably my all-time favorite player. Then there was suing the City of Oakland many times over, even though they're pretty much bankrupt as it is.

Al is indefensible. Just because he finds a gem once every 4-5 years doesn't excuse his awful management overall.

ETA: NAMMdee AssaMOOwa is the best CB in football. Surprised the Raiders re-signed him.

Sapp = Great player, bad fit. He'll tell you that himself. He didn't like the culture of Oakland, and only left Tampa out of protest of the Dungy firing (as did Lynch and others TMK).

Larry Brown = I don't know enough about him/his situation to say. You may very well be right. Just don't know.

DeAngelo Hall = Yeah, should've done more research, but isn't that ur personnel director's job? Isn't he supposed to tell you that it won't fit? And who's to say that they did do research on him, and were wrong? People are human, y'know.

Javon Walker = I know he's a WR, but nothing else... How long has he been in the league?

Heyward-Bay = At least he's in camp...

Mitchell = Some said the same about Guy... 5th rounders have become superstars, and 2nd rounders have busted. Give him a chance. He's athletic, and big. Al loves his H/W/S guys... so we'll see.

Russell = I think he's immature. Cable got on him, and I think that had an effect, as did picking up Garcia. I think he may have been a lil spooked about losing his job after those things... I expect him to improve. Maybe not numbers-wise, but definitely maturity-wise.

Janikowski = He has a boot though... I personally value big footed punters over big footed kickers... Maybe they hoped to convert him kinda like the Chiefs did with Mr. Irrelevant?

As far as coaches, my football awareness was very low during the time of White and Bugel.
Gruden trade? I point the finer at Tampa. Besides, he always seemed like a better coordinator/assistant than coach to me... But that's just my opinion.

Callahan - Dunno, honestly
Turner - See above.
Shell re-tread, after firing him too soon earlier (also, see Shanahan). - iunno.
Kiffin and that whole embarrassing debacle - I saw that coming from day one, but he must have appealed to Al...
Cable - because nobody else wanted it. - lol

So maybe he's not the best at picking coaches, but he does have an eye for talent though.
And TBH, my understanding of the coaching situation in Oakland is mediocre at best, so take my quips on them (except Gruden) with a grain of salt.

I do think a big part of it is how quickly teams expect their coach to produce though. Consistency goes a long way (see Titans, Steelers, Eagles, etc.), something I've never really known Al for being...
But like I said, I'm not one to really say much about the coaches. My football awareness may be deep, but it's pretty limited due to my age.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by NiteMaestro

Javon Walker = I know he's a WR, but nothing else... How long has he been in the league?

Dude, if you're going to defend the indefensible, at least be up on their recent huge free agent signings...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

But most likely he was hoping to get traded to someone good, and New England sent him to the highest bidder.

yeah...this exactly i'm sure. but he should have known he was going to get shipped to the highest bidder - he's no rookie, he knows how the NFL works

[NiteMaestro]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Dude, if you're going to defend the indefensible, at least be up on their recent huge free agent signings...

I'm not a big Raiders fan at all, and live on the East Coast... I hardly ever hear about them...

*does quick research*

Ah. I remember him.

Well, though I question the contract personally... It looks like he's a productive receiver.
A bit injury prone, and has some seriously bad luck...
But hey. I don't see the big problem really.

He should have a solid year IMO.

Hell... It's better than Lelie!!

[Jughead Spock]

My football awareness may be deep, but it's pretty limited due to my age.

That's cool. I'm not gonna get bent out of shape about it, you admit you don't know all the particulars. I'd encourage you to read into some of the things I mentioned though to get the picture of why pretty much everyone thinks Al Davis has loved his ever-lovin' mind. If he'd have stuck with Gruden and started working his way out of the day-to-day at that point, the Raiders wouldn't be such a laughing stock.

[NiteMaestro]

Originally Posted by Jughead Spock

That's cool. I'm not gonna get bent out of shape about it, you admit you don't know all the particulars. I'd encourage you to read into some of the things I mentioned though to get the picture of why pretty much everyone thinks Al Davis has loved his ever-lovin' mind. If he'd have stuck with Gruden and started working his way out of the day-to-day at that point, the Raiders wouldn't be such a laughing stock.

I personally feel that the Gruden thing is more Tampa Bay's fault than Oakland.

But I'll look it up...

[Lathum]

Honestly Nite, your arguments keep getting worse and worse.

It makes me tink you have no knowledge of football or what it takes to build a winning football team.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Was Tommy Kelly any good last year? The Raiders caught a lot of flack for that contract too.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Honestly Nite, your arguments keep getting worse and worse.

It makes me tink you have no knowledge of football or what it takes to build a winning football team.

And this surprises you that a guy who has been defending Al Davis the entire thread might be lacking some knowledge about football?

[Danny]

The Gruden trade itself wasn't a problem. He wanted out and they got an excellent trade for him. Now, the likely meddling Al did that caused the desire for Gruden to want out is a different story. And then of course, the crap that has followed for several years. Al has lost it, there really is no debating that. He was once the man and contributed more to football than most other owners could dream of, but has really needed to step back for quite some time. It's a shame too because the Raiders, not considering the last 7 years are one of the most successful and storied franchises in professional sports.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Jughead Spock

Wow. I didn't think there was anyone left to defend Al. I've been a lifelong Raiders fan, but I'm on hiatus until he's gone.

Let's look at some of these moves lately, just off the top of my head.

Warren Sapp
Larry Brown
DeAngelo Hall - and yeah, everyone universally derided this move as typical Al Davis - 'I don't care if he can play, he's FAST!'
Javon Walker

Or how about draft picks
Heyward-Bey - 20+ picks higher than ANYONE would've thought. Questionable hands, which is always nice in a WR.
Mitchell - a 5th round pick taken in the 2nd.
Russell - Cannon for an arm, no work ethic. Yippee.
Janikowski in the first round. He's NEVER been clutch.

The coaches
White
Bugel
"TRADING" Gruden away. Like an 'oops, I made a good move, better get rid of him.
Callahan
Turner
Shell re-tread, after firing him too soon earlier (also, see Shanahan).
Kiffin and that whole embarrassing debacle
Cable - because nobody else wanted it.


And to go back further, I started losing respect for Al with how he handled Marcus Allen, probably my all-time favorite player. Then there was suing the City of Oakland many times over, even though they're pretty much bankrupt as it is.

Al is indefensible. Just because he finds a gem once every 4-5 years doesn't excuse his awful management overall.

ETA: NAMMdee AssaMOOwa is the best CB in football. Surprised the Raiders re-signed him.

+1
I was going to edit out parts of this that I couldn't resoundingly support. Yet I kept finding stuff that matched my opinion.

I too was a fan, I was only a Raider fan. I started to back down with the Marcus Allen affair. I was completely lost by the time of the Tuck Ruling. I warmed when Gruden roamed the sidelines, and then rooted against the Raiders in their last SuperBowl appearance.

Al Davis must go. Since he can't realistically be fired, I've got to hope he dies. Is that wrong?

[jeff061]

Its simple. The Raiders make the right move every single time. Other teams just pick on them and they are the unluckiest organization in professional sports. I don't know how you can argue against that.

[jeff061]

Al Davis must go. Since he can't realistically be fired, I've got to hope he dies. Is that wrong?

Only if you want him to die before 2011.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

+1

Al Davis must go. Since he can't realistically be fired, I've got to hope he dies. Is that wrong?

You could just hope that he gets declared mentally incompetent and has control of the team taken away from him. I think it is only a matter of time as he likely has some form of dementia, at least based on some of his football decisions.