If Brexit passes, Texit is next!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I would think there'll be plenty of loopholes that allow Premier League teams to operate basically as they do currently. Too much money involved - a lot of it outside of the UK, too.

They'll have to negotiate that specifically (in order to get around the FA Work Permit Regulations). And a LOT of people have been grumbling for years that the Premier League has too many foreigners... I imagine those same folks voted Leave.

[NobodyHere]

Stock Markets are going to get hammered tomorrow. S&P futures are down 100 points.

[NobodyHere]

And now Prime Minister David Cameron is resigning.

[SirFozzie]

Well, Cameron won't leave office till Autumn, and even then, it will be just a new conservative in office (they don't have to call elections), But I think the UK is finished.

[MIJB#19]

The biggest mistake was to have this Brexit referendum to begin with. There's too much precedent in other countries that referenda swing into the anti-EU way.

[stevew]

I don't really care either way but it seems foolish that such a dramatically impacting decision could be determined by a simple majority of the voters.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by stevew

I don't really care either way but it seems foolish that such a dramatically impacting decision could be determined by a simple majority of the voters.

Bah. We put Dubya, Clinton, Nixon, and JFK in charge of enough weaponry to end all life on this planet without them even hitting that threshold.

[stevew]

Yeah but (theoretical) checks and balances.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

The biggest mistake was to have this Brexit referendum to begin with. There's too much precedent in other countries that referenda swing into the anti-EU way.

Yup. Cameron is an ass.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Stock Markets are going to get hammered tomorrow. S&P futures are down 100 points.

I'm good with a 20% bear market (just to get that monkey off our back). This is as good of an excuse as any. Hopefully it'll be quick.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah but (theoretical) checks and balances.

Also the theory of the Electoral College as a buffer (not that it did anything in Ben's instances, but it's what was designed to avoid, oh, President Kanye).

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

They'll have to negotiate that specifically (in order to get around the FA Work Permit Regulations). And a LOT of people have been grumbling for years that the Premier League has too many foreigners... I imagine those same folks voted Leave.

I'd argue it's not going to change the Premier League all that much. Those clubs have the resources to employ sufficient numbers of lawyers to make good cases for work permits for the foreign players in question. In addition, most of the players they'll be signing will pretty easily qualify under those rules anyway.

I see big changes, however, for the rest of the English pyramid, for all the reasons above.

All of this is neatly wrapped up in the Bosman ruling, which most people remember as the ruling which allowed players freedom of movement at the end of their contracts, but also did away with the quota schemes in individual leagues.

I don't see end-of-contract free transfers going away in the UK because a) precedent has been set, b) players will avoid the EPL if this happens and the EPL is in competition with other leagues and c) players simply have too much power.

It will be interesting to see if the reinstatement of fees to the "losing" club due to end-of-contract free transfers and/or quotas on foreign players comes back in.

[Thomkal]

well Donald Trump (who happens to be in Scotland right now) approves of Britain leaving the EU, so all must be well with the world right?

[Marc Vaughan]

.. soccer stuff ...

Actually it'll change it hugely 'when its finalised' as the restrictions are fairly onerous for non-EU players, because of the migratory nature of humans a huge number of players have reached the Premiership because they have some nationality link to the EU which has facilitated their entry ... if/when England leave that side of things it will become harder for such players to gain entry to the Premiership.

One of the biggest changes will be positive for the English game in many ways though, by restricting such players and especially the influx of young non-UK talent it will naturally give a bigger opportunity for kids from the UK to enter the game at a more competitive level earlier in their careers.

Oh and expect to see a simulation of the likely changes happening in due course in our games next year obviously

PS - End of contract free-transfers are here to stay in England I'd expect regardless of any other changes ... interesting thought though as its not one which sprang to mind initially for me.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

well Donald Trump (who happens to be in Scotland right now) approves of Britain leaving the EU, so all must be well with the world right?

Well, he congratulated Scotland for voting to leave when they actually voted to remain.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

One of the biggest changes will be positive for the English game in many ways though, by restricting such players and especially the influx of young non-UK talent it will naturally give a bigger opportunity for kids from the UK to enter the game at a more competitive level earlier in their careers.

Big +1 to this, it's one of the few positives I can come up with. The number of mediocre EU players outside of the Premiership taking jobs from young British players is something that is hopefully something of the past, to say nothing about the number of EU youngsters in teams youth and under 21 systems.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by cartman

Well, he congratulated Scotland for voting to leave when they actually voted to remain.

It's the media's fault no doubt

[cartman]

Google search spike suggests people don't know why they Brexited | The Verge

[Dutch]

The good news is that opens up a vacancy so the EU can add Turkey who's been begging for the EU to better aid their 60 million poor people.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

Google search spike suggests people don't know why they Brexited | The Verge

Well that turned out to be downright silly (not your fault).

The actual searches likely referred to the actual next steps, not the "duh, what's a Brexit ... and does it come with chips?" sort of thing the title implies.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Dutch

The good news is that opens up a vacancy so the EU can add Turkey who's been begging for the EU to better aid their 60 million poor people.

Boy, those Europeans apply Promotion/Relegation to everything.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Boy, those Europeans apply Promotion/Relegation to everything.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by cartman

Google search spike suggests people don't know why they Brexited | The Verge

Leave voter on BBC: "I'm shocked & worried. I voted Leave but didn't think my vote would count - I never thought it would actually happen."

— Laura Topham (@LauraTopham) June 24, 2016

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Boy, those Europeans apply Promotion/Relegation to everything.

Perfect response!

[RainMaker]

Saw this being passed around Twitter. Kind of an interesting take. Social media has gone so far out of it's way to only show users what they currently believe that they have little knowledge of the other side of the issue.

[AlexB]

The reason no one is celebrating is that most people who did so are not the dumb, racist Little Englanders that the Remain supporters seem to think.

And most people know that this was a vote for principles rather than self-gain: things will be tough for a while.

I voted leave not because I wanted my pension pot or house price to remain stable and safe, but because we have the opportunity to govern ourselves rather than be limited or restricted by EU legislature (note, recognition that we are not dictated to by the EU, a very small minority of our laws are dictated by the EU, although many more are framed by EU legislation)

I voted leave because it allows us flexibility to react as needs be according to global circumstances.

I voted leave because increased freedom of self-determination is the right principle, despite it undoubtedly costing us nationally and individually in the short term.

Everything was painted as black and white: leaving the EU meant we hated Europe and Europeans, leaving the EU meant we couldn't trade with the EU ever again, leaving the EU meant we would be isolated and at the back of the queue as far as other major powers were concerned, leaving the EU meant immediate catastrophic recession according to the Bank of England...

All lies and gross exaggerations, (there were plenty on the Leave side too to be fair): within 12 hours the EU states were discussing how important UK trade is both ways, Obama allowed us to queue jump a little, the Bank of England have said it will is fine, just a little speed bump...

I keep returning to the point: if the potential outcome was as catastrophic as the Remain camp claimed, we, the public, would never have had the opportunity to vote that as a possibility. Difficult initially? Yes. Medium-long term - money wins over, trade agreements will be signed, we and the world will flourish.

I'm sorry for the longish post, but avoided this all day and this nonentity of a post: very few are jubilant as we know it is a big and grave decision that will cause short-term difficulties if not hardship. But the principle, long term benefit and future are worth the short-term pain.

[bhlloy]

Is all of that true if it leads to the breakup of the Union?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by AlexB

The reason no one is celebrating is that most people who did so are not the dumb, racist Little Englanders that the Remain supporters seem to think.

And most people know that this was a vote for principles rather than self-gain: things will be tough for a while.

I voted leave not because I wanted my pension pot or house price to remain stable and safe, but because we have the opportunity to govern ourselves rather than be limited or restricted by EU legislature (note, recognition that we are not dictated to by the EU, a very small minority of our laws are dictated by the EU, although many more are framed by EU legislation)

I voted leave because it allows us flexibility to react as needs be according to global circumstances.

I voted leave because increased freedom of self-determination is the right principle, despite it undoubtedly costing us nationally and individually in the short term.

Everything was painted as black and white: leaving the EU meant we hated Europe and Europeans, leaving the EU meant we couldn't trade with the EU ever again, leaving the EU meant we would be isolated and at the back of the queue as far as other major powers were concerned, leaving the EU meant immediate catastrophic recession according to the Bank of England...

All lies and gross exaggerations, (there were plenty on the Leave side too to be fair): within 12 hours the EU states were discussing how important UK trade is both ways, Obama allowed us to queue jump a little, the Bank of England have said it will is fine, just a little speed bump...

I keep returning to the point: if the potential outcome was as catastrophic as the Remain camp claimed, we, the public, would never have had the opportunity to vote that as a possibility. Difficult initially? Yes. Medium-long term - money wins over, trade agreements will be signed, we and the world will flourish.

I'm sorry for the longish post, but avoided this all day and this nonentity of a post: very few are jubilant as we know it is a big and grave decision that will cause short-term difficulties if not hardship. But the principle, long term benefit and future are worth the short-term pain.

I'm with you here in the states. It's the same rhetoric you get anytime you talk about cutting back on government here. You must be racist, if not you are stupid, if not you clearly don't understand economics...

[panerd]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Is all of that true if it leads to the breakup of the Union?

It's been around about twenty years. England has been around thousands of years. I think they will survive. It's like people who talk about the department of education like it was something Washington and Jefferson created and not a big government project from the Late seventies.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Saw this being passed around Twitter. Kind of an interesting take. Social media has gone so far out of it's way to only show users what they currently believe that they have little knowledge of the other side of the issue.

I think it's a little absurd to put this at the feet of Zuckerberg and his kind, they're just giving people what they're going to be looking for anyways. I'm a firm believer that people often seek out affirmation and not information. Liberals are not going to start reading breitbart and conservatives are not going to go to sites like motherjones.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by panerd

It's been around about twenty years. England has been around thousands of years. I think they will survive. It's like people who talk about the department of education like it was something Washington and Jefferson created and not a big government project from the Late seventies.

The UK, not the EU. I couldn't give a shit about the future of the EU, but the UK is heading for a future without Scotland, possibly Northern Ireland and with a London that is no longer the financial center of Europe.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Is all of that true if it leads to the breakup of the Union?

IMO yes. Others would disagree no doubt. I really like the idea that was originally mooted in the 70s of removing trade barriers in the European market; it makes perfect sense. However, this does not require a single European entity, although it is obviously easier with a single negotiating body rather than several treaties.

However, what I completely disagree with is the idea of a centrally governed European super-state, that tries to be all things to all men, a princile that has never, and will never, work.

[AlexB]

Dola, what annoyed me most about the whole campaign was the distinct unwillingness of the Leave side to acknowledge that being in Europe has some advantages, and the Remain camp that there were major problems with staying.

Everything, including the referendum question itself, was portrayed so as black and white that such acknowledgement must have been ruled unacceptable by both campaigns, and simply meant that both held on occasion ridiculously untenable positions, and neither side ended up coming out of it with any credit.

With one exception - although I disagree with almost everything Jeremy Corbin believes, he was the only one who in essence admitted that it was shades of grey: when asked how much he was behind the Remain ideology, he answered 7/10, which itself was probably a gross exaggeration of his true belief.

He has since been crucified for this, is subject to a vote of no confidence for being less dishonest than any other politician in the debate, and this will ensure the duplicity and lies will continue for the inevitable forthcoming general election, which in turn will further disenfranchise people.

[BBT]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm with you here in the states. It's the same rhetoric you get anytime you talk about cutting back on government here. You must be racist, if not you are stupid, if not you clearly don't understand economics...

To be fair, if you talk of raising taxes or expanding government or implementing any other leftist policy you're labeled as a socialist/communist and un-American. The right basically uses the word "liberal" as a 4 letter word. And now the presumptive Republican candidate is regularly calling anyone that opposes him "stupid," "loser," or an "idiot."

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by panerd

It's been around about twenty years. England has been around thousands of years. I think they will survive. It's like people who talk about the department of education like it was something Washington and Jefferson created and not a big government project from the Late seventies.

The United Kingdom is what is likely to implode, that has been around since 1707 - this vote has a high probability of breaking it up as Scotland voted wholeheartedly* to stay (as did Ireland) and it is incredibly likely that the 'leave' vote will trigger a second referendum for Scotland, this time I have limited faith they'll choose to stay in the UK ... not least because exiting at this time will have a hugely increased chance that they are allowed to join the EU and avoid much of the ruckus which the rest of the UK will endure.

*That is to say they were 60/40 in favor of staying and all the counties returned 'stay' majorities, not that 100% of Scottish people wanted to stay obviously ..

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

The United Kingdom is what is likely to implode, that has been around since 1707 - this vote has a high probability of breaking it up as Scotland voted wholeheartedly* to stay (as did Ireland) and it is incredibly likely that the 'leave' vote will trigger a second referendum for Scotland, this time I have limited faith they'll choose to stay in the UK ... not least because exiting at this time will have a hugely increased chance that they are allowed to join the EU and avoid much of the ruckus which the rest of the UK will endure.

*That is to say they were 60/40 in favor of staying and all the counties returned 'stay' majorities, not that 100% of Scottish people wanted to stay obviously ..

From over here it looked like a major problem for the Scottish independence referendum was that Scotland may not be allowed in the EU. I would think an independent Scotland would now be welcomed heartily into the EU.

It is funny to watch Boris Johnson now call for slowing down the Article 50 declaration.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by AlexB

The reason no one is celebrating is that most people who did so are not the dumb, racist Little Englanders that the Remain supporters seem to think.

And most people know that this was a vote for principles rather than self-gain: things will be tough for a while.

I voted leave not because I wanted my pension pot or house price to remain stable and safe, but because we have the opportunity to govern ourselves rather than be limited or restricted by EU legislature (note, recognition that we are not dictated to by the EU, a very small minority of our laws are dictated by the EU, although many more are framed by EU legislation)

I voted leave because it allows us flexibility to react as needs be according to global circumstances.

I voted leave because increased freedom of self-determination is the right principle, despite it undoubtedly costing us nationally and individually in the short term.

Everything was painted as black and white: leaving the EU meant we hated Europe and Europeans, leaving the EU meant we couldn't trade with the EU ever again, leaving the EU meant we would be isolated and at the back of the queue as far as other major powers were concerned, leaving the EU meant immediate catastrophic recession according to the Bank of England...

All lies and gross exaggerations, (there were plenty on the Leave side too to be fair): within 12 hours the EU states were discussing how important UK trade is both ways, Obama allowed us to queue jump a little, the Bank of England have said it will is fine, just a little speed bump...

I keep returning to the point: if the potential outcome was as catastrophic as the Remain camp claimed, we, the public, would never have had the opportunity to vote that as a possibility. Difficult initially? Yes. Medium-long term - money wins over, trade agreements will be signed, we and the world will flourish.

I'm sorry for the longish post, but avoided this all day and this nonentity of a post: very few are jubilant as we know it is a big and grave decision that will cause short-term difficulties if not hardship. But the principle, long term benefit and future are worth the short-term pain.

Thanks for your perspective.

[Abe Sargent]

So for me, as some of you might know, I went to London from teh USA to be an international, student back in 2007. I had a horrible experience, and had to head back home based on my landlord pulled a bait and switch on me. He promised, and we agreed to, a cheap single room in a house in Leyton, and then instead told me is was a room that shared a room with someone else. The advertisement he had was intentionally lying. Even the flatshare site he used to post the ad defined terms for various things in its FAQ and such, and the term he used the wrong term intentionally, and did not make it right. He gave me a flat in Walthamstow that was more than double the price, in another house they owned with a bunch of other folks.

I shared the house with 7 other folks. Longstory short, I wasn;t able to find other accommodation, and I left before my debt piled too highly and headed home. My house mates, and the landlord (and his agent) were all recent immigrants to the UK from eastern European countries recently added to the EU, and they got there via the open immigration borders, not from having a full and quality set of typical immigration stuff (like jobs). Only oe housemates had a job that made enough money to qualify for immigration if he didn;t have the EU's authority to move there. The landlord was scummy, the agent was fine, and of my house mates, many did nothing around the house and literally watched Friends in English all day long.

Now that's anecdotal. It's not everyone. It's not every place. I get that. But wow, that showed me something. So frankly, the EU's overly-liberal immigration state moved the people to the UK that directly forced me to have to head back. From the scummy landlord (who clearly had a job) and one of my flaltmates who actually made some amount of money, to multiple unemployed folks who are in London for a while, I get it. I saw it myself fist hand. And I understand why that was a major thing for England. Now, that;s clearly ancedotal, bt still, if a lot of anecdotes are like that, i get the Leave vote. I endorse it. So good job AlexB!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I think it's a little absurd to put this at the feet of Zuckerberg and his kind, they're just giving people what they're going to be looking for anyways. I'm a firm believer that people often seek out affirmation and not information. Liberals are not going to start reading breitbart and conservatives are not going to go to sites like motherjones.

I agree it's not his fault. Just that a lot of these social networking sites try to cater your experience to what you're likely to agree with. It leads to people having no idea what the other side of an issue thinks or feels. We are creating these little bubbles to put ourselves in.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

So for me, as some of you might know, I went to London from teh USA to be an international, student back in 2007. I had a horrible experience, and had to head back home based on my landlord pulled a bait and switch on me. He promised, and we agreed to, a cheap single room in a house in Leyton, and then instead told me is was a room that shared a room with someone else. The advertisement he had was intentionally lying. Even the flatshare site he used to post the ad defined terms for various things in its FAQ and such, and the term he used the wrong term intentionally, and did not make it right. He gave me a flat in Walthamstow that was more than double the price, in another house they owned with a bunch of other folks.

I shared the house with 7 other folks. Longstory short, I wasn;t able to find other accommodation, and I left before my debt piled too highly and headed home. My house mates, and the landlord (and his agent) were all recent immigrants to the UK from eastern European countries recently added to the EU, and they got there via the open immigration borders, not from having a full and quality set of typical immigration stuff (like jobs). Only oe housemates had a job that made enough money to qualify for immigration if he didn;t have the EU's authority to move there. The landlord was scummy, the agent was fine, and of my house mates, many did nothing around the house and literally watched Friends in English all day long.

Now that's anecdotal. It's not everyone. It's not every place. I get that. But wow, that showed me something. So frankly, the EU's overly-liberal immigration state moved the people to the UK that directly forced me to have to head back. From the scummy landlord (who clearly had a job) and one of my flaltmates who actually made some amount of money, to multiple unemployed folks who are in London for a while, I get it. I saw it myself fist hand. And I understand why that was a major thing for England. Now, that;s clearly ancedotal, bt still, if a lot of anecdotes are like that, i get the Leave vote. I endorse it. So good job AlexB!

Similar to the US in a way. The people who are behind pro-immigration are the people who wouldn't be caught dead living in a Hispanic neighborhood filled with immigrants.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We are creating these little bubbles to put ourselves in.

I might be inclined to argue that those bubbles already largely exist -- at least as much as we can make them -- and that social media simply follows the desires of most users.

I mean, we follow like-minded people, generally speaking we're friends with more like-minded people, so on & so forth. And that's the case because that's how we prefer it to be, just human nature.

Pew Research also had an interesting "below the fold" observation about the phenomenon a couple of years ago. They noted that strong conservatives tend to have their viewing already culled to avoid disagreeable content ... but that strong liberals are noticeably more likely to hide/block disagreeable content.

That seems to suggest that conservatives (who are on FB on a regular basis in smaller numbers) are simply closer to their ideal viewing than liberals, but that the latter strives to get there.

Social Media, Political News and Ideology | Pew Research Center

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Similar to the US in a way. The people who are behind pro-immigration are the people who wouldn't be caught dead living in a Hispanic neighborhood filled with immigrants.

This gets so fucking tiresome.

I teach the children of immigrants. My daughter goes to school with the children of immigrants. I live in a neighborhood that includes immigrants.

[RainMaker]

Interesting article.

We've also got Facebook curating content to fit their political ideology. Twitter has been suspending conservative users on a regular basis. I don't know what kind of impact that has on overall public opinion but it's something to look into (I personally think it does more harm than good for those companies).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

This gets so fucking tiresome.

I teach the children of immigrants. My daughter goes to school with the children of immigrants. I live in a neighborhood that includes immigrants.

That's nice but most of our cities and suburbs are heavily segregated. You have to admit a decent chunk of white folks voting Democrat are NIMBY liberals.

Why do people talk about moving up to Canada if Trump wins and not down to Mexico? Much cheaper and much nicer weather.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why do people talk about moving up to Canada if Trump wins and not down to Mexico? Much cheaper and much nicer weather.

Maybe because the Mexican government and police are super corrupt, which is probably a big reason why so many Mexicans want to move to the US?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Maybe because the Mexican government and police are super corrupt, which is probably a big reason why so many Mexicans want to move to the US?

The same can be said for here in the US too from time to time.

[larrymcg421]

How many Hispanic people have to live in my neighborhood before I'm allowed to be pro-immigration?

[lungs]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

How many Hispanic people have to live in my neighborhood before I'm allowed to be pro-immigration?

Am I allowed to be pro-immigration since I singlehandedly made my neighborhood majority Latino?

[cuervo72]

I love how CBS News puts it:

The vote had split the country on age, geographic, and economic lines. The older, poorer, less-well-educated voted out. The young, better-educated wanted to stay in. The vote hasn't cleared the aire here, it's made it more bitter. The old have determined what kind of country the young will live in.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Maybe because the Mexican government and police are super corrupt, which is probably a big reason why so many Mexicans want to move to the US?

Forget about drug cartels?