Juicing: Who Would Make you Sad? - Page 2

claphamsa · 01-13-2010, 09:09 PM

i think ill be disappointed by the ones who didnt... i mean, why not try?

Shkspr · 01-13-2010, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Mike LaValliere.

I'm pretty sure the man never even owned a juicer.

hoopsguy · 01-13-2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shkspr

I'm pretty sure the man never even owned a juicer.

Dodgerchick and Antmeister - I would be very disappointed if they owned a juicer.

King of New York · 01-13-2010, 09:48 PM

Biff Pocoroba

Eppa Rixey

Charlie "Piano Legs" Hickman

dawgfan · 01-13-2010, 09:54 PM

Ken Griffey Jr. Both because he's such an icon for my team, and for the fact that it would really suck to find out that one of the few players that most people believe was totally clean wasn't - there'd be almost no reason anymore to not suspect everyone.

Edgar Martinez. He's such a likable human being that it would break my heart if he was tainted. Unfortunately, he has to be a guy you look at skeptically given the way he went from a skinny guy with not much home run power to a very powerfully built guy in his later years with legit home run power.

As for those that are skeptical that a guy like Maddux could've been a user based on his physique, let me remind you that Ryan Franklin tested positive a few years back. Not that I take any pleasure in pointing that out, because Maddux is one of my all-time favorites. And just because he didn't throw 98 MPH, doesn't mean he wasn't a user either - maybe he was a guy who could throw 85 MPH with average movement, but on steroids he threw 90 MPH with fantastic movement. Again, not saying I think he was a user, just pointing out counter-arguments to those suggesting he couldn't have been based on his stuff...

Sun Tzu · 01-13-2010, 09:54 PM

Cy Young.

rjolley · 01-13-2010, 09:55 PM

Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey, Jr definitely.

Pujols would only partially surprise me.

Sun Tzu · 01-13-2010, 09:59 PM

I think that 20 years from now we're going to find out that 80% of the league was doing something that will be considered "performance enhancing" from the 60's on.

That, or we'll never f'ing know. Point being, all this "juicing" talk is and always has been pointless.

Fonzie · 01-13-2010, 10:14 PM

Albert Pujols - please, just please let him be the real deal. C'mon Baseball Gods, let us have something.

Ozzie Smith - those backflips...could a juice-free player do them every single freaking day? Hmm...

Robin Yount and Paul Molitor - icons from my younger days in Wisconsin, and thinking of them always generates some nostalgia of a simpler time in baseball. I'd hate for either to have been juiced.

k0ruptr · 01-13-2010, 10:30 PM

Frank Thomas, please please no. Favorite player ever.

Lathum · 01-13-2010, 10:34 PM

Griffey for sure.

Bo Jackson

Tasan · 01-13-2010, 11:51 PM

Well Raffy Palmeiro pretty much destroyed my world. He was one of my absolute favorites when I was a teen.

Griffey would bum me out.

I'd put good money on Julio Franco juicing. No way that dude gets up in the morning and doesn't take something.

Abe Sargent · 01-13-2010, 11:55 PM

Curt Schilling

Danny · 01-13-2010, 11:58 PM

Holy crap, Sammy Sosa is now an ugly white guy, I had no idea.

NewIdentity · 01-14-2010, 02:00 AM

What is going to happen to all your hero's when the NFL or the MLB starts testing for HGH?

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 01-14-2010, 06:24 AM

There is absolutely no need for that apostrophe.

PilotMan · 01-14-2010, 06:31 AM

Griffey, Maddux, Ripken

I wouldn't be surprised by Bo or Rickey at all.

I guess I would have to add Nolan Ryan, his legend just wouldn't be the same.

Butter · 01-14-2010, 06:46 AM

Nolan Ryan used to Nupe it everyday. That's practically juicing.

Samdari · 01-14-2010, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjolley

Pujols would only partially surprise me.

Really? I consider him the poster child for HGH.

KWhit · 01-14-2010, 07:13 AM

Yeah, I would be totally shocked if Pujols is clean.

NewIdentity · 01-14-2010, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

There is absolutely no need for that apostrophe.

You are correct. Heros plural does not need an apostrophe. I don't know what I was thinking there?

Dr. Sak · 01-14-2010, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It would be sad for me to find out that any notable Pittsburgh Pirates were using during the steroid. Otherwise, it would make their pathetic performance that much worse.

I got into a heated yet interesting conversation a few years ago with Zach Duke over the subject of steroids in baseball.

Swaggs · 01-14-2010, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I got into a heated yet interesting conversation a few years ago with Zach Duke over the subject of steroids in baseball.

Did it end with him firing a 78 MPH fastball at you?

Dr. Sak · 01-14-2010, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Did it end with him firing a 78 MPH fastball at you?

No, it ended with him walking away with this drop dead gorgeous blonde and me just standing there. Sad thing was, it wasn't till after the argument that I found out it was Zach Duke.

chesapeake · 01-14-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

Edgar Martinez.

+1

It would be heartbreaking if the icon of Seattle sports was found to have taken performance enhancing drugs.

Drake · 01-14-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

There is absolutely no need for that apostrophe.

That was beautiful. I think I love you.

Senator · 01-14-2010, 08:41 AM

Nolan Ryan

KWhit · 01-14-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

There is absolutely no need for that apostrophe.

Then you'll love this:

sterlingice · 01-14-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Agree, I would be beyond surprised with Maddux, his physique didn't change his whole career and he barely threw hard enough to break a pane of glass, just great control and movement.

Hardly. In his prime, Maddux wasn't hitting triple digits but he could hit 94-95 on the gun when he needed it.

I would be a bit disappointed if it came out that he used, tho

SI

sterlingice · 01-14-2010, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It would be sad for me to find out that any notable Pittsburgh Pirates were using during the steroid. Otherwise, it would make their pathetic performance that much worse.

Quite a few Royals have been mentioned in the steroids mess, tho almost all are of the variety of "aging star the Royals paid too much for long after his prime". As for those teams cheating and still sucking, maybe they're just doing it wrong. I'll refer to Turk on Scrubs.

Turk: This is the reason why your headache didn't go away: That's actually pronounced analgesic, not anal-gesic. Sir, the pills go in your mouth.

SI

molson · 01-14-2010, 09:51 AM

The only one that comes remotely to mind in Curt Schilling, but I think the reaction would be something other than exactly "sad".

Otherwise, nobody close. Which makes me feel cynical and without a soul.

And I never understood why Griffey always got the benefit of the doubt, considering the way his body broke down.

DaddyTorgo · 01-14-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

Yeah, I would be totally shocked if Pujols is clean.

+1000

larrymcg421 · 01-14-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

The only one that comes remotely to mind in Curt Schilling, but I think the reaction would be something other than exactly "sad".

Otherwise, nobody close. Which makes me feel cynical and without a soul.

And I never understood why Griffey always got the benefit of the doubt, considering the way his body broke down.

I think that's part fo the reason why he gets the benefit of the doubt. If he was juicing, he probably would've recovered better.

CU Tiger · 01-14-2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I think that's part fo the reason why he gets the benefit of the doubt. If he was juicing, he probably would've recovered better.

I think there is a 0% chance Griffey is clean. He added 25 lbs and began having injuries at 27...players dont grow muscle at 27 that have been in a gym since they were 17...

Noop · 01-14-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Holy crap, Sammy Sosa is now an ugly white guy, I had no idea.

Pumpy Tudors · 01-14-2010, 11:20 AM

comedy Dale Sveum response

Blackadar · 01-14-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I think there is a 0% chance Griffey is clean. He added 25 lbs and began having injuries at 27...players dont grow muscle at 27 that have been in a gym since they were 17...

This is exactly the kind of comment that causes me to give everyone a free pass in the steroid era. No one is above suspicion and there's no excuse too flimsy to justify that suspicion.

Just to set the record straight:

Griffey's first major injury occurred when he was 25 years old after playing about 900 games across 7 seasons. The kid broke his wrist crashing into a wall in 1995 and missed more than half the year. He then returned to play 5 straight seasons with no real extraordinary jump in statistics. He hit 45 homers at age 23 in 1993, so unless he was on the juice back then (prior to his supposed physique change), his 56 homers in 1997 and 1998 certainly aren't outliers. Then his body started to break down at age 31, which isn't surprising since he had played over 1,700 games. It's not surprising that he put on weight after that, considering he was often laid-up due to injuries.

Really, there's nothing in Griffey's profile to suggest use of 'roids unless he was taking them all the way back when he was 22-23. If he got on them later in his career, there's nothing to suggest they helped him, considering he's played more than 130 games only twice since 2001.

I'm not saying he wasn't using them. I'm saying there's no evidence to suggest he was. But your attempt to paint him as such is the perfect example because that kind of logic could be applied to almost any player mentioned in this thread. Ripken? Had to be on the juice to play all those games. Maddux? Just look at how his physique changed. Ryan? Look at his jump in strikeout totals when he got into his 40s.

So on and so forth...

Poli · 01-14-2010, 11:38 AM

Stubby Clapp

molson · 01-14-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

But your attempt to paint him as such is the perfect example because that kind of logic could be applied to almost any player mentioned in this thread. Ripken? Had to be on the juice to play all those games. Maddux? Just look at how his physique changed. Ryan? Look at his jump in strikeout totals when he got into his 40s.

So on and so forth...

The union and owners have chosen to create an environment where this kind of logic is applied. I'm perfectly content with assuming everyone cheated. It's more accurate than assuming the opposite, and it makes the whole "steroid era" not as big a deal, because it was an even playing field.

Blackadar · 01-14-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

The union and owners have chosen to create an environment where this kind of logic is applied. I'm perfectly content with assuming everyone cheated. It's more accurate than assuming the opposite, and it makes the whole "steroid era" not as big a deal, because it was an even playing field.

That's kind of my attitude as well.

Terps · 01-14-2010, 12:48 PM

Ripken, Murray, Markakis... And if he pans out, Wieters.

JediKooter · 01-14-2010, 01:07 PM

Tony Gwynn Sr.
Wade Boggs
Don Mattingly
Ricky Henderson

Glengoyne · 01-14-2010, 01:16 PM

Maddux,
Schilling,
Gwynn,
I'd not be disappointed with Cal Ripken Jr. I'm still annoyed he broke Gehrig's record.
Griffey is someone I'm surprised to see on so many lists. I've written his career off as a disappointment, so what is one more?

chesapeake · 01-14-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I think there is a 0% chance Griffey is clean. He added 25 lbs and began having injuries at 27...players dont grow muscle at 27 that have been in a gym since they were 17...

Griffey never saw the inside of a gym when he was with the M's and was constantly criticized for it. He finally started a weight training program after being injured a couple of times.

If he did juice, he should get his money back. Given the frequency and durations of his many injuries, it sure didn't seem to do him any good.

molson · 01-14-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesapeake

If he did juice, he should get his money back. Given the frequency and durations of his many injuries, it sure didn't seem to do him any good.

I'm not a medical expert, but it's certainly out there that one of the side effects of excessive steroid use can be injuries. In that, maybe you can heal faster, but then you're pushing your body to do things its not desinged to do.

RedKingGold · 01-14-2010, 04:32 PM

Jesus

McLovin · 01-14-2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Jesus

Jesus Flores or Jesus Alou ?

CU Tiger · 01-14-2010, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

This is exactly the kind of comment that causes me to give everyone a free pass in the steroid era. No one is above suspicion and there's no excuse too flimsy to justify that suspicion.

Just to set the record straight:

Griffey's first major injury occurred when he was 25 years old after playing about 900 games across 7 seasons. The kid broke his wrist crashing into a wall in 1995 and missed more than half the year. He then returned to play 5 straight seasons with no real extraordinary jump in statistics. He hit 45 homers at age 23 in 1993, so unless he was on the juice back then (prior to his supposed physique change), his 56 homers in 1997 and 1998 certainly aren't outliers. Then his body started to break down at age 31, which isn't surprising since he had played over 1,700 games. It's not surprising that he put on weight after that, considering he was often laid-up due to injuries.

Really, there's nothing in Griffey's profile to suggest use of 'roids unless he was taking them all the way back when he was 22-23. If he got on them later in his career, there's nothing to suggest they helped him, considering he's played more than 130 games only twice since 2001.

I'm not saying he wasn't using them. I'm saying there's no evidence to suggest he was. But your attempt to paint him as such is the perfect example because that kind of logic could be applied to almost any player mentioned in this thread. Ripken? Had to be on the juice to play all those games. Maddux? Just look at how his physique changed. Ryan? Look at his jump in strikeout totals when he got into his 40s.

So on and so forth...

So a careeer high of 45 is eclisped four years later by 11 (25% above his career high) and repeated two years in a row and that isnt an outlier, really?

I've stated here numerous times before, I experimented with both illegal and legal at extreme dosage supplements largely in the mid 90s. My opinion does not come from someone who has watched athletes be accused, I personally know no less than 50 anabolic users personally that I either played with or lifted with.

I think the numbers are much closer to 100% than anyone wants to believe, but just watching Griffey Id say it a damn near lock.

Also AS abuse is tied directly to ligament deterioration and excessive stiration over an extended period, I have read numbers as high as 1000% more likely to sustain injury during and immediately following a cycle. Susceptibility to injury is a marker of abuse not a witness to the contrary.

One other name that keeps coming up is Rickey Henderson, and that shocks me as well. Just his presence on the late 80s A's should cast doubt on him, and again his longevity and career track coupled with outward appearance certainly suggest there is at leats reasonable suspicion.

The bigger problem is how long did the steroid era last?
I'd suggest that it extends into the early 80s and possibly even late 70s.

The formulations certainly improve in recent years, as did their effectiveness but their presence has has been there.

Shkspr · 01-14-2010, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

The bigger problem is how long did the steroid era last?
I'd suggest that it extends into the early 80s and possibly even late 70s.

This is interesting to me as I've always kinda thought of Brian Downing circa 1979 of being an excellent candidate for doping.

Vegas Vic · 01-15-2010, 01:05 AM

The Fabulous Moolah.

01-13-2010, 09:48 PM	#54
King of New York High School Varsity Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Edge of the Great Dismal Swamp	Biff Pocoroba Eppa Rixey Charlie "Piano Legs" Hickman __________________ Input A No Input

01-13-2010, 09:54 PM	#56
Sun Tzu Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In the thick of it.	Cy Young. __________________ I'm still here. Don't touch my fucking bacon.

01-13-2010, 09:59 PM	#58
Sun Tzu Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In the thick of it.	I think that 20 years from now we're going to find out that 80% of the league was doing something that will be considered "performance enhancing" from the 60's on. That, or we'll never f'ing know. Point being, all this "juicing" talk is and always has been pointless. __________________ I'm still here. Don't touch my fucking bacon. Last edited by Sun Tzu : 01-13-2010 at 10:00 PM.

01-13-2010, 10:30 PM	#60
k0ruptr Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Las Vegas	Frank Thomas, please please no. Favorite player ever. __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag: k0ruptr My Favorite Teams : Chicago White Sox - Carolina Panthers - Orlando Magic - Phoenix Suns - Anaheim Ducks - Hawaii Warriors - Oregon Ducks

01-13-2010, 11:51 PM	#62
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	Well Raffy Palmeiro pretty much destroyed my world. He was one of my absolute favorites when I was a teen. Griffey would bum me out. I'd put good money on Julio Franco juicing. No way that dude gets up in the morning and doesn't take something. __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty

01-13-2010, 09:54 PM	#55
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Ken Griffey Jr. Both because he's such an icon for my team, and for the fact that it would really suck to find out that one of the few players that most people believe was totally clean wasn't - there'd be almost no reason anymore to not suspect everyone. Edgar Martinez. He's such a likable human being that it would break my heart if he was tainted. Unfortunately, he has to be a guy you look at skeptically given the way he went from a skinny guy with not much home run power to a very powerfully built guy in his later years with legit home run power. As for those that are skeptical that a guy like Maddux could've been a user based on his physique, let me remind you that Ryan Franklin tested positive a few years back. Not that I take any pleasure in pointing that out, because Maddux is one of my all-time favorites. And just because he didn't throw 98 MPH, doesn't mean he wasn't a user either - maybe he was a guy who could throw 85 MPH with average movement, but on steroids he threw 90 MPH with fantastic movement. Again, not saying I think he was a user, just pointing out counter-arguments to those suggesting he couldn't have been based on his stuff...

01-13-2010, 09:55 PM	#57
rjolley College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Roseville, CA	Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey, Jr definitely. Pujols would only partially surprise me.

01-13-2010, 10:14 PM	#59
Fonzie Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Illinois	Albert Pujols - please, just please let him be the real deal. C'mon Baseball Gods, let us have something. Ozzie Smith - those backflips...could a juice-free player do them every single freaking day? Hmm... Robin Yount and Paul Molitor - icons from my younger days in Wisconsin, and thinking of them always generates some nostalgia of a simpler time in baseball. I'd hate for either to have been juiced.

01-13-2010, 10:34 PM	#61
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Griffey for sure. Bo Jackson

01-13-2010, 11:55 PM	#63
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Curt Schilling __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

01-13-2010, 11:58 PM	#64
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Holy crap, Sammy Sosa is now an ugly white guy, I had no idea.

01-14-2010, 02:00 AM	#65
NewIdentity High School JV Join Date: Jun 2009	What is going to happen to all your hero's when the NFL or the MLB starts testing for HGH? __________________ I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed. Michael Jordan

01-14-2010, 06:24 AM	#66
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	There is absolutely no need for that apostrophe. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

01-14-2010, 06:31 AM	#67
PilotMan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seven miles up	Griffey, Maddux, Ripken I wouldn't be surprised by Bo or Rickey at all. I guess I would have to add Nolan Ryan, his legend just wouldn't be the same. __________________ He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam

01-14-2010, 06:46 AM	#68
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	Nolan Ryan used to Nupe it everyday. That's practically juicing. __________________ My listening habits

01-14-2010, 07:13 AM	#70
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Yeah, I would be totally shocked if Pujols is clean.

01-14-2010, 08:41 AM	#77
Senator FOFC's Elected Representative Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The stars at night; are big and bright	Nolan Ryan __________________ "i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand

01-14-2010, 09:51 AM	#81
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	The only one that comes remotely to mind in Curt Schilling, but I think the reaction would be something other than exactly "sad". Otherwise, nobody close. Which makes me feel cynical and without a soul. And I never understood why Griffey always got the benefit of the doubt, considering the way his body broke down. Last edited by molson : 01-14-2010 at 09:54 AM.

01-14-2010, 11:20 AM	#86
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	comedy Dale Sveum response __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

01-14-2010, 11:38 AM	#88
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Stubby Clapp __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

01-14-2010, 12:48 PM	#91
Terps College Prospect Join Date: Jul 2001	Ripken, Murray, Markakis... And if he pans out, Wieters.

01-14-2010, 01:07 PM	#92
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	Tony Gwynn Sr. Wade Boggs Don Mattingly Ricky Henderson __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

01-14-2010, 01:16 PM	#93
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	Maddux, Schilling, Gwynn, I'd not be disappointed with Cal Ripken Jr. I'm still annoyed he broke Gehrig's record. Griffey is someone I'm surprised to see on so many lists. I've written his career off as a disappointment, so what is one more?

01-14-2010, 04:32 PM	#96
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	Jesus

01-15-2010, 01:05 AM	#100
Vegas Vic Checkraising Tourists Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cocoa Beach, FL	The Fabulous Moolah.

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