Marvin Harrison

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by stevew

Leonard Little killed someone driving drunk, and got, what, a 2 game suspension?

Intoxication can negate the specific intent necessary to demonstrate criminal intent (mens rea). Intentionally/willfully shooting someone is the more serious offense in most jurisdictions, assuming intoxication can be used as a defense to specific intent.

Or something like that. I don't do criminal law.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Shooting at someone is 100,000X more dangerous than driving drunk.

Seems like that depends upon who's shooting & who's driving.

There's a live guy with a hand wound vs dead victims (of the aforementioned Little and Danny Heatley to name a couple) that illustrate my point.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Or some version of reckless conduct, or improper discharge of a firearm, or reckless endangerment. I imagine it depends on what the prosecutors think they have some change of proving/winning.

I would imagine shooting someone ALWAYS meets a probable cause standard for attempted murder, so they'd always charge with that, with the goal to get a plea of one of the charges you mentioned.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Seems like that depends upon who's shooting & who's driving.

There's a live guy with a hand wound vs dead victims (of the aforementioned Little and Danny Heatley to name a couple) that illustrate my point.

A drunk driver has a minuscule chance of getting caught. I'm guessing that Little drove drunk 100+ times before he killed someone.

Not saying that driving drunk isn't reckless, but it's silly to compare it to intentionally shooting someone.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

I would imagine shooting someone ALWAYS meets a probable cause standard for attempted murder

I believe it varies by jurisdiction, but I would think there probably has to be some element of intent in at least some instances. For example, a scenario such as "I had the gun out because I felt my life was in danger, I stumbled & the gun went off as I fell." etc. etc etc.

[Radii]

I would assume that Harrison's good reputation in the NFL will count for something(as far as guessing what may happen here compared to Pacman Jones or Vick) and Goddell would take more of a wait and see approach w/ Harrison than he did with others. I could easily see him missing 4-8 games next year if he's just charged w/ any sort of crime here. If it ends up being attempted murder in a scenario KSyrup puts forth, surely he's gone for a year and we'll see after that.

[Ksyrup]

Not saying he'll end up convicted of that, but absent some set of circumstances the authorities are willing to believe that would suggest something less than attempted murder, I gotta think they're going to go for the most serious charge and be willing to plead him out to something lesser.

[stevew]

Marvin wanted to do hoodrat stuff with his friends.

[SFL Cat]

Maybe he's auditioning for the Raiders.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Kodos

This is kind of like if Jerry Rice ran afoul of the law.

I'm stunned and agree with these assessment. I'd put money on neither of these guys being involved in this sort of situation. Stunning to me that Marvin is even being accused of this.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by stevew

Leonard Little killed someone driving drunk, and got, what, a 2 game suspension?

Of course, that was pre-Goodell and Goodell can't retroactively punish him for that, unless he does something else. I imagine that if Little had done that now, he would have gotten a much harsher penalty.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

and even better, don't OWN one! What the hell is Marvin thinking?

Not only does he own one, he owns one in North Philadelphia. Philly isn't exactly the most easy-going city, and everyone I know from the other parts stays far, far, away from hanging out in North Philly.

[cougarfreak]

Per profootballtalk.com, this doesn't look too promising for Harrison:

The bullets reportedly came from a Belgian-made gun. Harrison told police he owns such a gun, but claimed that the gun never left his house. The gun was later found in a bucket at a car wash Harrison owns.

The gun was determined to be the same gun that fired the shots.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Per profootballtalk.com, this doesn't look too promising for Harrison:

The bullets reportedly came from a Belgian-made gun. Harrison told police he owns such a gun, but claimed that the gun never left his house. The gun was later found in a bucket at a car wash Harrison owns.

The gun was determined to be the same gun that fired the shots.

FYI, that was also in the article posted here.

[Julio Riddols]

I know its fun making jokes about teams or players that have "problems" but I think this goes to show that anytime, anywhere, anyone can become a criminal. Its just a matter of snap judgements and specific situations. Who knows what led up to it all, but it appears Harrison lost his cool and now seems to be lying about things to protect himself, which is what really stands out to me. I would expect, if Marvin really is this humble dude with a squeaky clean image, that he would have explained things more honestly to cops.. Now that he seemingly has lied about details, I would be willing to bet he has a reason to try and hide what actually happened. He is probably a lot more at fault than anyone knows yet if that is the case.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I know its fun making jokes about teams or players that have "problems" but I think this goes to show that anytime, anywhere, anyone can become a criminal.

I couldn't disagree more.


Call the police, thats what they are there for.

[Julio Riddols]

I think you misunderstood.. I meant to say that even good people in bad situations can make bad decisions. He could have called police, but made a bad decision and now looks like he's on the hook for it.

[Ksyrup]

I've never been in the situation (even remotely), but I have to imagine that once you've shot someone - even in a fit of rage that you instantly regret - protecting yourself by lying comes quite naturally, given the alternative. It's not like if he came clean (assuming this is what happened) - "I'm sick of this guy hanging around my bar, and I lost my cool and fired 7 shots at him" - the cops would thank him for his honesty and that would be the end of it.

Lesson learned: If you're going to own a gun, make sure it's not custom-made.

[GrantDawg]

Shocking. Just goes as a reminder, you never know a person by what you see on television. Would have never guessed this, but I always like OJ Simpson until we got to see behind the curtain. *shrug*

[spleen1015]

From the local media here in Indy, Marvin and his lawyer are saying that published media reports are inaccurate. They asked for the public's patience.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

From the local media here in Indy, Marvin and his lawyer are saying that published media reports are inaccurate. They asked for the public's patience.

I started following the Colts because of Peyton (UT fan). I grew to love the Colts largely because of Marvin.

I hope upon hope that they're right, but if it turns out he's a douche in disguise i'll be just as harsh on him as I have been on Vick, etc, etc.

[Crim]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

From the local media here in Indy, Marvin and his lawyer are saying that published media reports are inaccurate. They asked for the public's patience.

Isn't that kind of standard lawyer-ese, though?

[Vince]

Well, even if it's standard, it's what they'd say if he was guilty, as well as what they'd say if he was innocent.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Crim

Isn't that kind of standard lawyer-ese, though?

It's also true more times than not. Until the cops and prosecutors say the things I've read in the articles, I'd be skeptical of the accuracy of the reporting as well.

[Crim]

Originally Posted by Vince

Well, even if it's standard, it's what they'd say if he was guilty, as well as what they'd say if he was innocent.

This is my point. It's a statement by the suspect and his lawyer which means absolutely nothing, because he'd say exactly the same thing whether he's guilty or not.

sab's point is well taken, as I'm sure there is plenty of info the authorities have not disseminated, of course.

[Crim]

I'm thinkin, though, re: Jerry Rice, didn't he have some trouble a while back, when he was with the 49ers? Jack-shack bust, maybe?

[Greyroofoo]

The Colts are my favorite team and I really hope he's innocent, but if not its just another reason why I have a hard time rooting for sport teams.

[Crim]

Found it:

hxxp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/1998/02/27/MN95442.DTL&type=printable

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Crim

Found it:

hxxp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/1998/02/27/MN95442.DTL&type=printable

"Investigators noted that the hot tub was actually a bathtub."

Classy!

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by molson

Are there any active major pro athletes who have shot another person (that we know about?)

Rae Carruth, not active now (the whole incarceration deal) but wa active at time of act.

Originally Posted by molson

Shooting at someone is 100,000X more dangerous than driving drunk.

Depends on the quality of the shot I suppose, but Id wager the destructive possibilities of 1 drunk driver are MUCH greater than 1 individual with 1 hand gun. Gunmen rarely take out bus loads at a time...

[molson]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Gunmen rarely take out bus loads at a time...

It's rare for drunk drivers - I think you'd be shocked how many people are driving drunk on a given night in a major American City v. people getting shot there.

[watravaler]

He's looking for a fall-guy as I type this...

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Colts should definitely lose a first round draft pick next year.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Colts should definitely lose a first round draft pick next year.

No chance of that happening since this isn't a coach cheating like the Patriots did. This is an off the field issue, and that has never resulted in the team being penalized in the past with the exception of having the player suspended.

[Kodos]

If this all turns out to be true, I hope he gets a lifetime ban from the NFL and the Hall of Fame, and spends some serious time in jail.

That said, I hope it all turns out to be untrue somehow. I've always liked Marvin.

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by Kodos

If this all turns out to be true, I hope he gets a lifetime ban from the NFL and the Hall of Fame, and spends some serious time in jail.

That said, I hope it all turns out to be untrue somehow. I've always liked Marvin.

The Hall of Fame ban is a bit of a stretch IMO, but if this all turns out to be true, and as bad it sounds, I hope he never plays for the Colts again.

[Ksyrup]

Good thing for the Colts that it appears he's starting to fall on the downside of his career.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Good thing for the Colts that it appears he's starting to fall on the downside of his career.

I was just thinking that. This is the first year where I'm thinking he's not a top top WR to draft in fantasy... and then this happens.

[Daimyo]

On the pure football side, this will very likely be the second year in a row the Colts lose a key offensive player unexpectedly right after the draft... last year it was LT Tarik Glenn and now this year Harrison. Luckily they preemptively addressed both positions in last year's draft with Ugoh and Gonzalez.

With the newly drafted receiving TEs from this year's draft I guess Indy will go back more to the two TE set this year. Marvin was really a big question mark for this season even before this so hopefully they're ready for to go ahead without him.

[Ksyrup]

Didn't the Colts get Tamme from UK? His progress will be interesting to watch.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Didn't the Colts get Tamme from UK? His progress will be interesting to watch.

Yeah, Tamme looks like he'll be a step up from Utecht. And the LB from Georgia, Marcus Howard, looks to be the 3rd edge rusher they've been needing. I'm excited about this team, looks to be the most talented since the 05 squad, which was much better than the Super Bowl team. I'd love Harrison to be a part of it, but it's Wayne's show now anyway. I'd just like Harrison's career to end on a positive note...assuming he didn't go gangster on us.

[sabotai]

Update: Looks like the investigation is at a standstill.

MyFox Philadelphia | No Charges For Marvin Harrison In Gun Case

PHILADELPHIA -- Philadelphia District Attorney Lynne Abraham says Colts receiver Marvin Harrison will not face any charges related to a gun incident earlier this year.

Abraham announced that decision at a press conference in Philadelphia on Tuesday morning.

Sources told Fox 29 News in late April that the shooting stemmed from a fight that took place in Harrison's bar, Playmakers, weeks before.

Sources said Harrison, who is from Philadelphia, and others tried to throw out a bar patron. That same patron came to a car wash, which Harrison also owns, and another fight started.

At some point, someone fired shots, and they came from Harrison's gun.

Police said the gun used in the shooting near Harrison's car wash in the Brewerytown section of the city belonged to Harrison.


The DA also said that the stories of all of the witnesses conflict. I think I heard on the news that they said they have 9 witness and 9 different stories. So unless something comes out during the civil trial, doesn't look like Harrison is going to get into any legal trouble.

I wonder if the NFL does anything, though, since they can prove his gun was used.

[MylesKnight]

What's up with pro athletes that own car washes getting in trouble (remember Charles Oakley)?

[B & B]

Hey those quarters add up.

[RainMaker]

Well GQ put together an amazing investigative look into the Marvin Harrison case. The police and FBI are now taking another look into the case now because of it.

The Dirtiest Player: Profiles: GQ

[NewIdentity]

I am a little late to the party here, but what did the gunshot residue test show?