Why did you have kids?

[SunDevil]

And to add on to my previous comment, you mean to tell me not one baby has resulted from the epic "Ping Drunk Guy" thread......

[Subby]

Originally Posted by lurker

I was disagreeing with Subby's assertion that it's the easy way out to not have kids when you're able to. I really think it's a stronger person who decides not to have kids than the one who just does because it's expected. It may ultimately be more work for them, but it is the lazy way out.

If you and Pass ever have kids, please get back to me after the 2nd one is at least 3 or 4 and then let me know if you want to rethink that one.

[gkb]

By keeping my wife pregnant I prevented Pumpy from knocking her up. Married in 2005, child 1 in 2006, child 2 in 2007, child 3 in 2008. Take that Pumpy!

[lurker]

Originally Posted by Subby

No that's biological instinct. Self-absorbed is being able to have kids and choosing the easy way out.

Getting back to the point, do you seriously think that just because someone is physically able to procreate, it's their duty? Do you not see how many messed up parents there are?

[spleen1015]

There is no way that having a kid just because it's what everyone else is doing is much easier than not having them at all.

[molson]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

There is no way that having a kid just because it's what everyone else is doing is much easier than not having them at all.

I think we're talking about the decision to have kids. If it's what you're "supposed" to do, it might be the easier decision to make, regardless of the work that goes into it afterwards.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by Subby

If you and Pass ever have kids, please get back to me after the 2nd one is at least 3 or 4 and then let me know if you want to rethink that one.

Yeah, I just said "it may ultimately be more work." Try reading an entire sentence before making your quips.

[spleen1015]

I don't see one way being easier than the other, then.

When you say you're "supposed" to have kids, who determines that "supposed" to? Is that family pressure? Society?

[molson]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I don't see one way being easier than the other, then.

When you say you're "supposed" to have kids, who determines that "supposed" to? Is that family pressure? Society?

Ya, I think both, all that.

There was a similar back and forth here the last time this came up here. The question was whether deciding to have kids was selfish, and the response was about how hard parents work, after the fact of that decision.

Is is selfless or selfish to create life out of thin air to take care of? The kid didn't need to be taken care of before you created it.

And is selfless or selfish to choose not to have kids? I mean you're focussing on yourself, but you're not exactly neglecting anyone else (and you may have more time to make the world better in other ways, and you may have more money to donate charitably). You also might think that you wouldn't be a good parent, or don't have the appropriate financial stablity. That seems like the opposite of selfish.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by KWhit

The 'easy way out' is not having kids. It's a tough job, even if you do a crappy job of it.

I don't get it. Of what is it the 'easy way out'?

[spleen1015]

I never felt like there was any sort of pressure to have kids. I've never felt like it was something I was supposed to do. It was always something I wanted to do.

I have never thought less of folks who didn't want to have them either.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

We thought that having a child would bring joy into our lives through such things as being able to experience the world through their eyes and watching the child grow and learn and develop.

We considered not having children, and we delayed starting for career reasons, but the longer we waited, the more wrong it felt not to have kids. So we did. And, so far, it has been awesome.

That seems strange. What was it that made it feel wrong?

[Subby]

Originally Posted by lurker

Yeah, I just said "it may ultimately be more work." Try reading an entire sentence before making your quips.

I read the whole thing. You can put all of the qualifiers you want in there and I still think you are off-base.

If you think you are going to be a shitty parent, by all means, do not have kids. Just don't try and pawn it off as some noble or strong choice because you will come off as a self-absorbed idiot.

Anyway, I have no idea what the purpose of this thread was, but if you wanted to come off as a condescending, over-analytical shrew you completely succeeded.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Subby

I read the whole thing. You can put all of the qualifiers you want in there and I still think you are off-base.

If you think you are going to be a shitty parent, by all means, do not have kids. Just don't try and pawn it off as some noble or strong choice because you will come off as a self-absorbed idiot.

Anyway, I have no idea what the purpose of this thread was, but if you wanted to come off as a condescending, over-analytical shrew you completely succeeded.

Cock sucker.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by lurker

Yeah, I just said "it may ultimately be more work." Try reading an entire sentence before making your quips.

"May ultimately" be more work?

Seriously?

It is like 100x more work from day one. I don't know how that would be in doubt.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I think for me personally it was always a driving force and the fact we can pass along alot of the wisdom we hopefully have learned through our own fuck ups. Yet, we all know kids often sadly repeat many parents mistakes. But still, being able to teach our kids as we feel is appropriate to make them as they say well rounded citizens of this planet we all live and in the end maybe some of them can make it a better place in the next generation or so.........Or maybe just because of Tequilla

I like the Tequilla defense.

Even though they are not my biological children, I spoil my step daughters and treat them as if they were my own flesh and blood. Their dad is around, but, in a very 'hands off' way, even though he only lives about 15 minutes away from us, which just absolutely perplexes me. He's got a daughter who is an awesome musician and artist, never shows up to her performances. His youngest daughter is a damn good softball player and never shows up to any of her games. Heck, I flew out to St. Louis one year with her so she could join her team for the Nationals, he didn't even offer to take her or help pay, yet, he had time to take his new wife and new kids to England to visit family.

What's my point? I'm just trying to be a positive male role model for them and hopefully they can tell the difference between a good man vs someone who treats them like crap when all is said and done.

Ok, now that I re-read my post, I'm not even sure if I'm on topic and am just ranting...

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't get it. Of what is it the 'easy way out'?

I was responding to the statement that suggested that the easy way out was just to go with the flow and have kids. That's wrong-headed on a LOT of levels.

I suppose that thought process may have led to someone having children just to appease one's parents or spouse, but it is the absolute worst way to approach the decision. There is nothing easy about having a child and to suggest that "the easy way out" is having a child and the "tough thing to do" is to decide not to have one is really off-base, IMO.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by Subby

I read the whole thing. You can put all of the qualifiers you want in there and I still think you are off-base.

You obviously didn't, since you put in the smug parental line of getting back to you after having kids -- I acknowledged it'd be more work after the fact.

If you think you are going to be a shitty parent, by all means, do not have kids. Just don't try and pawn it off as some noble or strong choice because you will come off as a self-absorbed idiot.

Anyway, I have no idea what the purpose of this thread was, but if you wanted to come off as a condescending, over-analytical shrew you completely succeeded.

Actually, I think I'll be a great parent, but I do think it's a strong choice to not produce more unthinking idiots out there. And I think pretty much everyone is in agreement on that.

And if over-analytical is supposed to be an insult, I can't imagine how little you use your mind. The purpose of this thread was pretty well laid out in the initial post. Feel free not to contribute if it enrages you so much.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by KWhit

"May ultimately" be more work?

Seriously?

It is like 100x more work from day one. I don't know how that would be in doubt.

I shouldn't have used the word "may" in there. But I do think too many people don't think about how much work it'll be and if they did, they might not do it.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I was responding to the statement that suggested that the easy way out was just to go with the flow and have kids. That's wrong-headed on a LOT of levels.

I suppose that thought process may have led to someone having children just to appease one's parents or spouse, but it is the absolute worst way to approach the decision. There is nothing easy about having a child and to suggest that "the easy way out" is having a child and the "tough thing to do" is to decide not to have one is really off-base, IMO.

Yeah, I guess it was Subby that used the phrase 'easy way out' first, so the question was really for both of you. What is it that you're getting 'out of' by not having kids, anyway? When you put it that way, it sounds like you're saying that the reason for having kids is because you're expected to (i.e. it's that expectation that you're trying to take the 'easy way out' of), but I could be reading you guys wrong.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by lurker

Actually, I think I'll be a great parent, but I do think it's a strong choice to not produce more unthinking idiots out there. And I think pretty much everyone is in agreement on that.

Even speaking as one who currently has no plans for children, I have to ask - would an unthinking idiot be capable of rationalizing the need for fewer unthinking idiots via reproduction?

Further, is it possible for an individual to weigh those pros and cons, say "having kids is the right thing," and still be an unthinking idiot?

[molson]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I was responding to the statement that suggested that the easy way out was just to go with the flow and have kids. That's wrong-headed on a LOT of levels.

I suppose that thought process may have led to someone having children just to appease one's parents or spouse, but it is the absolute worst way to approach the decision. There is nothing easy about having a child and to suggest that "the easy way out" is having a child and the "tough thing to do" is to decide not to have one is really off-base, IMO.

Not to speak for anyone else, but I think that point was just directed towards the claim that not having kids is the "easy way out", when many times, that's not an easy decision. That idea also bizarely implies a duty to have kids if one is able, which is just an awful idea. I'd probably like to have kids if I was rich and didn't have to work, but I feel so overwhelmed by life as it is that I don't feel I'd ever be able to devote the proper energy to parenting. Yes, it would be way harder to to have kids so in that sense I'm "taking the easy way out", but I resent the reference that that makes someone self-absorbed, and in denial of his duty.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by gkb

By keeping my wife pregnant I prevented Pumpy from knocking her up. Married in 2005, child 1 in 2006, child 2 in 2007, child 3 in 2008. Take that Pumpy!

See, you had to go and pull me into this thread. I wasn't going to respond because I can't answer the original question (I don't have kids, so I can't answer "Why did you have kids?"), but now I'm here.

And yeah, I kept checking in on her every few months, and she always had another kid in her. Pissed me off!

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Yeah, I guess it was Subby that used the phrase 'easy way out' first, so the question was really for both of you. What is it that you're getting 'out of' by not having kids, anyway? When you put it that way, it sounds like you're saying that the reason for having kids is because you're expected to (i.e. it's that expectation that you're trying to take the 'easy way out' of), but I could be reading you guys wrong.

Yeah, I think my usage of the term (which has been really just in response to quoted posters - mainly lurker, I think) was really ignoring any connotation that that easy way out means that you're shirking a responsibility or anything. In my posts, "easy way out" could really be replaced with the "easy decision" or something like that.

Because really, and I can't stress this enough in this thread. LIFE IS MUCH MUCH MUCH EASIER WITHOUT KIDS.

Now, I've already said that I wouldn't change anything and I think my kids are the greatest thing in the world, but imagine your life today. Then add about 5000 small tasks to that day that have to get done. They aren't hard - most of them anyway. But they have to be done. That ain't easy.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Because really, and I can't stress this enough in this thread. LIFE IS MUCH MUCH MUCH EASIER WITHOUT KIDS.

That's why we don't have kids yet. Which is pretty much how I got to wondering how anyone decides to say "hey, let's get signed up for a couple of decades of massive work."

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by lurker

That's why we don't have kids yet. Which is pretty much how I got to wondering how anyone decides to say "hey, let's get signed up for a couple of decades of massive work."

For me, it just boils down to because I wanted to.

There are a lot of things that are a massive amount of work that people sign up to do, but people still do it because they want to. At 25 I wanted nothing to do with kids, at 35 I did. I had no set plan that said I had to have kids or needed kids or pressure. I just wanted kids.

Is what it is I guess...

[path12]

My ex and I debated kids quite a bit. Her son was 7 when we moved in together, a few years before we got married. I quickly realized that I'm too damn selfish of my own time to have any more.

Luckily, Ms.path's son was 16 when we met (22 now). That made things much easier. The fact that we'll be under 50 when he finally graduates from college is a bonus. I think it is almost easier to have kids when you're young and don't know better.

[Swaggs]

I do not have children yet, but when I do it will be to pass on my vast fortune (which I also do not have yet).

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

(ok, this might result in a bit of a threadjack, but what the heck)

A minor tangent from this- my wife and I have had the following conversation before. We had just seen a show or local news story were the mom did something crazy to save some year old kid, something that put the parent's life significantly more at risk to have a small incremental increase for the kid- something like charging into a collapsing burning building where there was a slim chance of success or crossing a freeway (high risk) to save kid who, realistically, was safe and would remain so, provided the mom would have kept her head long enough to wait for the cops to help.

I told her something to the effect of: "Don't you ever do anything like that. It makes no sense. When the kid is 1, I'll have known you something like 15 years to its one of basically being a eating/sleeping/pooping loaf of bread. If I have a choice of only one of you surviving a situation- it's going to be you 100 times out of 100."

And I know the parents will say that you just have no idea and you can't possibly know until you have a kid. But, frankly, from the "outside looking in"- that perspective makes no sense whatsoever to me and that people think that's normal and rational kindof scares me.

SI

You have no idea and you can't possibly know until you have a kid.

Seriously, though, if my almost 3 yo daughter were in a burning house and she was going to die but there was a 1 percent chance that I could save her by running in and probably dying myself, I would run into the house 100 times out of 100. No question. I would not want to live the rest of my life knowing that my daughter could have survived if I had taken action, even if the odds were ridiculously against both of us.

I doubt it would be a rational thinking process, anyway. That sense of protectiveness and sacrifice is probably in our hard wiring as humans, as is the need to procreate.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

Seriously, though, if my almost 3 yo daughter were in a burning house and she was going to die but there was a 1 percent chance that I could save her by running in and probably dying myself, I would run into the house 100 times out of 100. No question. I would not want to live the rest of my life knowing that my daughter could have survived if I had taken action, even if the odds were ridiculously against both of us.

I doubt it would be a rational thinking process, anyway. That sense of protectiveness and sacrifice is probably in our hard wiring as humans, as is the need to procreate.

+1

I find it completely irrational to not want to do this.

[duckman]

Condom broke.

Seriously, I was dating my ex when she got pregnant. She had talked about wanting to have a baby even though we were not married. I was not thrilled about the idea. Of course when you don't wear a condom like I was prone to do back then, you tend to have those type of things happened.

Now that he's here, I wouldn't trade him for all the wealth in the world. He makes me want to pull what hair I have left at times, but I really like having him around. I took him on a road trip to Corpus Christi during spring break. We had such a great time! We told jokes and listen to music in the car. We swam in the bay when we got there. It reminded me how special the relationship between parents and their children.

[boberot]

Why have kids, if it's so much work?

* A small percentage for me was knowing I could parent 100x better than my own parents, and being driven to do so from a fairly young age.

* I have a few friends who just idolize their dads, and I've always known that I would make it a high priority to give my kids everything they needed to have very happy, fruitful lives. And I'm not talking in terms of material things.

* There's definitely an instinct to see little iterations of myself in the world, molded by my influence. It's great to see them turning into the amazing, talented little people they are.

* There is no better way to quell one's inherent need to be silly / goofy / immature / play with toys / etc than with one's children. For about a decade, I would mold ongoing serial bedtime stories that would go on night after night for months on end, all just spontaneously. As somebody who writes as part of my day-to-day job, it's a fun and rewarding way to tap into that part of myself. And the kids loved it.

* Every day after work, my nearly 14-year-old son greets me at the door with a hug. I guess you either see the value in that or you don't.

* I have occasional visions of being the patriarchal "grandpa" of the family. Huge masses of my children and their children coming to the house for holidays. That is a very appealing thought.

* The bond with one's child really is miraculously powerful. Sure, I didn't know that before I had children, but I definitely sensed it would be so. It's an awesome, awesome relationship.

* I don't feel I've really had to sacrifice anything to be a parent. If I wanna go to the bar and have a few beers and shoot some pool, every now and then I do it. If I wanna catch a concert and get lit with buddies, every once in a while I do it. I don't feel the need to be out on the party circuit twice a weekend and whenever else.

* All that being said, it's kind of sad to me that this seems to be "single = selfish asshole" and "married = smug prick." I'd like to think it's more nuanced than that. I have plenty of friends who [currently] have no desire to have children. There is nothing "wrong" with that. Some people just aren't cut out to be parents. I don't think it's fair to place any value judgment on that.

Sorry to ramble . . . .

[digamma]

We're working on this decision now. Let me give you a few of my reasons for wanting to start a family. Some have been mentioned in this thread.

1. As albion pointed out, I'd be thrilled to experience life through the eyes of a child, and in particular, my child.

2. I want my parents and my wife's parents to have the joy of being a grandparent, in part because I remember the great relationship I had with my grandparents and in part because I know how much it would mean to my parents.

3. I think my wife and I are blessed with a pretty good set of genes, and maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'd like to see what the combination of those produce.

4. I'm a happy person, and some speed bumps aside, I've had a fantastic life. I want to give someone else the joy/experience that is living.

5. There is an old saying (maybe it comes from Rome or Greece), something along the lines of, "I am a soldier, so my son can be a farmer and his son can be a poet." I know that my parents worked hard to give me a life better than what they experienced. I hope I'm still in the early stages of my career, but I've worked hard to be able to do the same. It's exciting to me to think I might be able to provide that sort of opportunity to my child.

6. It's a freaking fantastic time to be alive. There is so much exciting stuff out there from technological advances to the relative ease of travel. Why wouldn't I want someone else to experience that?

7. I've got a lot of love to give.

8. I think I'll be a good parent. That sort of makes it my duty to try to raise a kid who will be a contributing member to the community (be it locally or globally).

9. I'm sick of being a self-absorbed prick.

[jeheinz72]

If I didn't have kids, who would take out the trash and do the dishes?

Plus the tax benefits!

It's a no brainer!

[jeheinz72]

In all seriousness, for us it was a no-brainer. I couldn't have envisioned the path of my life without it including being a parent. I'm a goofball. I have a lot of goofyness to give.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

You have no idea and you can't possibly know until you have a kid.

Seriously, though, if my almost 3 yo daughter were in a burning house and she was going to die but there was a 1 percent chance that I could save her by running in and probably dying myself, I would run into the house 100 times out of 100. No question. I would not want to live the rest of my life knowing that my daughter could have survived if I had taken action, even if the odds were ridiculously against both of us.

I doubt it would be a rational thinking process, anyway. That sense of protectiveness and sacrifice is probably in our hard wiring as humans, as is the need to procreate.

I would do the same thing. No way you are keeping me out of that house. The only thing that *might* slow me down would be thinking that I could be leaving my other child without a father. But I'm not sure I would even consider that at the time and not sure if it would matter either.

[I. J. Reilly]

Another reason I haven’t seen mentioned is the fear of growing old without someone to take care of you. For my wife and I this was certainly part of the equation, though by no means a deciding factor. It was probably more prevalent in our thinking because of her job, she worked as a speech pathologist in a retirement home, but I would bet that it at least subconsciously factors in to a lot of peoples decision.

So, I guess that’s one more tick for the selfish-parents column.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Subby

All of the childless people I know are completely self-absorbed and irritating as shit and I didn't want to end up like that.

So, at first I thought you were joking, or at least semi-joking, but now I'm not so sure....

Originally Posted by lurker

I shouldn't have used the word "may" in there. But I do think too many people don't think about how much work it'll be and if they did, they might not do it.

AMEN. Even worse are the people who say "You know, our marriage isn't going well, but if we have kids, it'll all be better." NO IT WILL NOT.

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Plus the tax benefits!

Can't believe I forgot about this. How can one forget his/her bouncing little tax deduction?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Can't believe I forgot about this. How can one forget his/her bouncing little tax deduction?

No doubt!

My daughter was born New Years Eve, 2004. That fact alone was some nice savings. Half for diapers, half for Daddy. That's a fair deal.

[Noop]

Subby, I think you're wrong. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to have kids, it's lifestyle(for lack of a better word) some people don't want. I mean if its wrong to not want children then is it wrong to be single?

[CamEdwards]

I have a very good friend who, along with his wife, have decided that they are not interested in having kids. It's a shame, because they're both very bright, creative, generous, and kind individuals. The world needs more of them, frankly, but they're not interested in reproducing. On some level, I do think it's selfish, but what are you going to do? We're still allowed to be selfish.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

We're still allowed to be selfish.

You must have missed the last election results.

AMIRITE?!?!

[DanGarion]

[somewhat sarcastic]
I commend all you parents, you have taken your civil duty of expanding the herd in your own hands. You deserve awards! Honestly you deserve all your tax breaks!

My wife and I are just a selfish couple that have so far decided we don't want kids and for that we should be flogged for we are detrimental to society!
[/sarcasm]

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

[somewhat sarcastic]
I commend all you parents, you have taken your civil duty of expanding the herd in your own hands. You deserve awards! Honestly you deserve all your tax breaks!

My wife and I are just a selfish couple that have so far decided we don't want kids and for that we should be flogged for we are detrimental to society!
[/sarcasm]

Great, we're on the same page!

Let the flogging begin!

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Noop

Subby, I think you're wrong. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to have kids, it's lifestyle(for lack of a better word) some people don't want. I mean if its wrong to not want children then is it wrong to be single?

If it's wrong to not have children, then I guess our society should just start killing those of us that can't have children. Since they can't contribute to adding more to the herd.

[grdawg]

I think its funny that a few people have mentioned that they were ambivalent and their wife pushed having kids. My wife definetly pushed having kids, but I didn't even think about having kids until I met her. All my friends seem to be in the same boat now (30s, 1 kid under 2) and a lot of them were pretty freaked out originally. When I found out it was going to be a boy, that made it a lot easier for me. I would have no problems having girls, but to have a boy first was comforting. I was the last person (that we know of) to carry on the family name so now that I have a boy, the name lives on. I kept saying that I had no idea how to be a father, but immediately after he was born, it kicked in and actually was easier then I expected. Now that he is 18 months and approaching the terrible 2s, it is a lot more work. He is so active and is constantly on the go, but I wouldn't trade fatherhood for anything. I lost my father when I was 7 so I can't wait for him to experience everything with me that I wasn't able to with my father.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

If it's wrong to not have children, then I guess our society should just start killing those of us that can't have children. Since they can't contribute to adding more to the herd.

I actually think it's a pretty good idea that you have decided not to have kids.

[sterlingice]

I'd be more in favor of killing those who *shouldn't* have had kids (and presumably their offspring) but I think that we might well below 0 population growth.

SI

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Subby

I actually think it's a pretty good idea that you have decided not to have kids.

That's great, I'm glad I don't care what you think.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'd be more in favor of killing those who *shouldn't* have had kids (and presumably their offspring) but I think that we might well below 0 population growth.

SI

+1