**SPOILER ALERT** (Captain America)

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Honestly I get 80% of news from FOFC. The other 20% is from coworkers. I get everything important so I don't even bother with news sites, newspapers or news on television.

(Maybe I should've put a 10% for sports news on ESPN )

Well, that just proves my point even more. You expect to get news from this place. So why would we put spoilers on any of it?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Like I said above, I don't have a problem with keeping certain information secret - in fact, most people have appreciated the way I've handled spoiler info in the AI thread - but here, it makes no sense. To me, there's a difference between giving away the ending of a new movie that even the critics purposely avoid doing, and reporting a "news item" (whether or not it rightfully should be considered one) that is all over the internet.

So basically if you know about something from the news, you assume that everyone else knows and it is ok to talk about. You don't care that someone may have just bought the comic and hasn't had a chance to read it yet? You don't care that some people impose their own media blackout for certain things?

I never watched any news between the time a new Star Wars movie came out and the time I had a chance to see it. If I miss the Survivor finale but have it recorded, I'll avoid the news so I don't know who won until I see it. If I have to miss the Super Bowl, I'll avoid the news until I can watch the recording.

I'm sure you have noticed that most news outlets have an "Entertainment News" section. Lots of things are spoiled there every day. They give away endings to movies, books, and TV shows.

The question is, do you NEED to be right about this, or would you rather keep the general FOFC population happy and allow a spoiler tag to exist?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Well, that just proves my point even more. You expect to get news from this place. So why would we put spoilers on any of it?

He probably expects the delivery of news around here to be handled more appropriately.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Well, that just proves my point even more. You expect to get news from this place. So why would we put spoilers on any of it?

Because let's say he's a Captain America reader...

He'd see that, see it's a spoiler, and avoid that thread until he read it - just like I do with AI, Heroes, etc. when I watch them on Tivo.

[Ksyrup]

Again, I see this particular issue as in the gray area - it's certainly akin to a movie/show/book spoiler and should normally be handled as such. Just look at the AI thread where I heavily participate and take great pains to avoid giving spoiler info. But the difference is, I'm not equating this particular bit of news to a movie/show/book review/discussion, because it has, in and of itself, become a news item that is out there, in as plain a text as could possible be written, for everyone to see.

And to answer the question above, if it's a news item, I don't expect everyone to know about it - but it's news, meant to be shared. I didn't see anyone post about the Libby Conviction with a SPOILER ALERT in case there were people who wanted to find out about it on their own terms. Likewise, with sporting events, I'm sorry, but they're fair game as well. It's news.

I hate to keep repeating myself, but again - I understand the point about this normally not being a typical news story. But it is. Superman's death was handled the same way. As a news story, it is entitled to be disseminated and discussed without being purposely kept under wraps.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

He'd see that, see it's a spoiler, and avoid that thread until he read it - just like I do with AI, Heroes, etc. when I watch them on Tivo.

Would have been kind of hard to avoid on ajc.com, with prominently displayed link text in the first screen right frame (i.e. you don't even have to scroll down, it's just sitting there just below Rosie's depression & above Jenna Bush's book.

"Comic Book Hero Captain America Dies'

Now that's a spoiler.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Well, that just proves my point even more. You expect to get news from this place. So why would we put spoilers on any of it?

Originally Posted by BrianD

He probably expects the delivery of news around here to be handled more appropriately.

You are correct. I hold FOFC to a higher standard than CNN. I think people here know the difference between real life and a comic book as far as breaking news goes.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Would have been kind of hard to avoid on ajc.com, with prominently displayed link text in the first screen right frame (i.e. you don't even have to scroll down, it's just sitting there just below Rosie's depression & above Jenna Bush's book.

"Comic Book Hero Captain America Dies'

Now that's a spoiler.

To be fair, before you mentioned it I had no clue what ajc.com was. Not everyone on this board visits the same web sites. And to be truthful, I probably would not have even known about this "news" item had it not been brought up here.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Well, that just proves my point even more. You expect to get news from this place. So why would we put spoilers on any of it?

So that the reader can decide whether or not he or she wants to know the info at this time? FWIW, I'm in the same boat as these guys -- I would have had no idea about this, if not for FOFC. I don't read Captain America or anything, so it's not like I need to be spoiler-free on this matter. But I do tape football games, so I appreciate people who don't want things given away. When I don't want to be spoiled from football games, I stay away from FOFC -- much like someone who doesn't want to be spoiled from Captain America plots would stay away from threads marked Captain America -- SPOILER ALERT. Seems like a pretty simple system.

[Fidatelo]

This isn't a spoiler. Marvel likely pushed that news item out to all the media outlets it could in order to advertise it. It's an "event" issue, it's aimed at getting attention.

[Ksyrup]

We put spoiler alerts on our discussion of sporting events?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

This isn't a spoiler. Marvel likely pushed that news item out to all the media outlets it could in order to advertise it. It's an "event" issue, it's aimed at getting attention.

Exactly. And the news organizations were more than happy to oblige.

Except the AP. I understand they're trying out a one-week Captain America news blackout, but they'll tell us more about that next week.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Again, I see this particular issue as in the gray area - it's certainly akin to a movie/show/book spoiler and should normally be handled as such. Just look at the AI thread where I heavily participate and take great pains to avoid giving spoiler info. But the difference is, I'm not equating this particular bit of news to a movie/show/book review/discussion, because it has, in and of itself, become a news item that is out there, in as plain a text as could possible be written, for everyone to see.

And to answer the question above, if it's a news item, I don't expect everyone to know about it - but it's news, meant to be shared. I didn't see anyone post about the Libby Conviction with a SPOILER ALERT in case there were people who wanted to find out about it on their own terms. Likewise, with sporting events, I'm sorry, but they're fair game as well. It's news.

I hate to keep repeating myself, but again - I understand the point about this normally not being a typical news story. But it is. Superman's death was handled the same way. As a news story, it is entitled to be disseminated and discussed without being purposely kept under wraps.

So share the news but put a spoiler tag in the headline. I don't read comics, but if I saw a posting about Captain America, I'll check it out. You don't see that topic everyday around here. Discussion can then be had. You don't need an overly specific title.

The point isn't whether people should be upset to see that kind of headline, the point is whether people will be upset. You know how people are around here about spoilers so assume people will be overly sensitive to them and err on the side of caution.

Does it really surprise you that people have this reaction? You have over 18,000 posts here so I am assuming that you do occasionally read some as well, right?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

We put spoiler alerts on our discussion of sporting events?

No, because there is an expectation there.

[rkmsuf]

I want to hear from the people that read Cap America regularly and were potentially offened by knowing this plot line.

[MikeVic]

I didn't know it was an actual news item. That's dumb. I read New Avengers, but am a couple issues behind... Captain America is still alive in those. So to me, this is a spoiler... I don't go to cnn.com or anywhere like that very often. But if I had seen the spoiler there, I'd be annoyed with the news source too.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I didn't know it was an actual news item. That's dumb. I read New Avengers, but am a couple issues behind... Captain America is still alive in those. So to me, this is a spoiler... I don't go to cnn.com or anywhere like that very often. But if I had seen the spoiler there, I'd be annoyed with the news source too.

I think that's part of the problem here. I have a problem with CNN doing this too, but they're money grubbing whores so I can't hold them accountable - I can try to make things more responsible around here.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

This isn't a spoiler. Marvel likely pushed that news item out to all the media outlets it could in order to advertise it. It's an "event" issue, it's aimed at getting attention from people that do not read the title.

Corrected.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

We put spoiler alerts on our discussion of sporting events?

You and I both know that is a totally different situation.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I didn't know it was an actual news item. That's dumb. I read New Avengers, but am a couple issues behind... Captain America is still alive in those. So to me, this is a spoiler... I don't go to cnn.com or anywhere like that very often. But if I had seen the spoiler there, I'd be annoyed with the news source too.

Same here.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by BrianD

So share the news but put a spoiler tag in the headline. I don't read comics, but if I saw a posting about Captain America, I'll check it out. You don't see that topic everyday around here. Discussion can then be had. You don't need an overly specific title.

The point isn't whether people should be upset to see that kind of headline, the point is whether people will be upset. You know how people are around here about spoilers so assume people will be overly sensitive to them and err on the side of caution.

Does it really surprise you that people have this reaction? You have over 18,000 posts here so I am assuming that you do occasionally read some as well, right?

Had I come across an unofficial discussion of this and wanted to discuss it here, I almost certainly would have put a spoiler alert in the title. I didn't make the original post, but I saw the article earlier on CNN and wouldn't have thought twice about posting it as a news items, given how it was presented. To me, this particular story - not movie/show/book plotlines in general - is similar to a sports score. I wouldn't think to hide it because it's out there for everyone to find out. This went from spoiler to news when you could simply google the damn character's name and come up with dozens of articles explicitly describing this "news."

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

We put spoiler alerts on our discussion of sporting events?

We don't, but we headline them in a way that makes it clear we are talking about them. If we have a "Super Bowl Discussion" thread, it is pretty clear that we are talking about the game in progress.

I personally don't care if we put the word "spoiler" in a thread title, but I'd like to be able to figure out what threads to stay away from if I don't want a spoiler. A thread titled "Survivor Winner" is one I would stay away from until seeing the last show. A thread titled "Holy Crap, Susan Smith Won Survivor!!!" would annoy me just a bit.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Had I come across an unofficial discussion of this and wanted to discuss it here, I almost certainly would have put a spoiler alert in the title. I didn't make the original post, but I saw the article earlier on CNN and wouldn't have thought twice about posting it as a news items, given how it was presented. To me, this particular story - not movie/show/book plotlines in general - is similar to a sports score. I wouldn't think to hide it because it's out there for everyone to find out. This went from spoiler to news when you could simply google the damn character's name and come up with dozens of articles explicitly describing this "news."

But again - many of us it seems - would not have known about this if not for this thread.

Face it - this is a story/plotline that someone is trying to make into a news story, no reason we have to do it here.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Had I come across an unofficial discussion of this and wanted to discuss it here, I almost certainly would have put a spoiler alert in the title. I didn't make the original post, but I saw the article earlier on CNN and wouldn't have thought twice about posting it as a news items, given how it was presented. To me, this particular story - not movie/show/book plotlines in general - is similar to a sports score. I wouldn't think to hide it because it's out there for everyone to find out. This went from spoiler to news when you could simply google the damn character's name and come up with dozens of articles explicitly describing this "news."

What if there's a sporting event that occurs at 3am wherever you live... and you know it'll be shown the next day at noon. Would you want to come to FOFC at 11am to see something like: "WOW! Team A beat Team B 120-119 in the third OT!"

I'd like to think that's why title threads like: "NFL Week 11 Discussion." Not only for a thread to store our collective thoughts, but also to avoid spoiling a fresh occurence for others.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Had I come across an unofficial discussion of this and wanted to discuss it here, I almost certainly would have put a spoiler alert in the title. I didn't make the original post, but I saw the article earlier on CNN and wouldn't have thought twice about posting it as a news items, given how it was presented. To me, this particular story - not movie/show/book plotlines in general - is similar to a sports score. I wouldn't think to hide it because it's out there for everyone to find out. This went from spoiler to news when you could simply google the damn character's name and come up with dozens of articles explicitly describing this "news."

Now that you've seen the reaction, would you still do the same thing?

If you regularly read Captain America, would you Google him after a new issue came out and before you had read it? This would be the exact action people would avoid to be sure they didn't get spoiled. They probably wouldn't know a spoiler event would be in the news, but why even look in that situation?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I'm not a comic book guy, but I know threads like these have lead to angry masses in the past. I would retitle this thread and add in a spoiler warning incase anyone here happens to read this particular comic book series.

You better tell them not to visit Yahoo.com then since it's on their front page....

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What if there's a sporting event that occurs at 3am wherever you live... and you know it'll be shown the next day at noon. Would you want to come to FOFC at 11am to see something like: "WOW! Team A beat Team B 120-119 in the third OT!"

I'd like to think that's why title threads like: "NFL Week 11 Discussion." Not only for a thread to store our collective thoughts, but also to avoid spoiling a fresh occurence for others.

I would absolutely expect to see the score posted here, and I wouldn't care if it was in the thread title because I wouldn't watch it if it wasn't live. In fact, I'd probably stop by ESPN.com on my way here to find out the score before reading the discussion of it here.

[rkmsuf]

shouldn't the WTF be eliminated from the title? I mean that strongly suggests something odd with Captain America which in and of itself is a spoiler. Regular readers should be given the chance to leave here with the belief that it's status quo.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Now that you've seen the reaction, would you still do the same thing?

If you regularly read Captain America, would you Google him after a new issue came out and before you had read it? This would be the exact action people would avoid to be sure they didn't get spoiled. They probably wouldn't know a spoiler event would be in the news, but why even look in that situation?

I wouldn't think to do anything other than what I was used to doing, that's my point. A regular reader of Captain America who simply goes to AOL.com or Yahoo or CNN or Google has as much chance of running across this item as someone who purposely googles the topic to try to find out spoiler info. That's why this isn't a spoiler!!!

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

shouldn't the WTF be eliminated from the title? I mean that strongly suggests something odd with Captain America which in and of itself is a spoiler. Regular readers should be given the chance to leave here with the belief that it's status quo.

I think I made that point earlier in the thread.

I mean, if we had a thread up during the Super Bowl titled, "WTF -Chicago Bears SPOILER ALERT," given their underdog status, I would automatically assume they were doing something unexpected, like winning.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I wouldn't think to do anything other than what I was used to doing, that's my point. A regular reader of Captain America who simply goes to AOL.com or Yahoo or CNN or Google has as much chance of running across this item as someone who purposely googles the topic to try to find out spoiler info. That's why this isn't a spoiler!!!

But my point - many DON'T go to those pages. Just because AOL.com, Yahoo, or CNN could give a fuck about ruining the story, doesn't mean that we shouldn't.

There is not a reasonable expectation that the ending to Captain America is a public news item (and it shouldn't be). This is no different than the ending to any other book, movie, etc - just because Marvel is trying to drum up press to increase sales doesn't make it a news item. This should be treated the same as any other book/story, regardless of the corporate pimping going on at "news" sites.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

[size=-1]Captain America, who is the alter ego of Steve Rogers was originally created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. He received his special powers from taking a dose

Holy shit, i didn't know Captain Amercia was Steve Rogers, WTF, thanks asshat!

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by wade moore

But my point - many DON'T go to those pages. Just because AOL.com, Yahoo, or CNN could give a fuck about ruining the story, doesn't mean that we shouldn't.

There is not a reasonable expectation that the ending to Captain America is a public news item (and it shouldn't be). This is no different than the ending to any other book, movie, etc - just because Marvel is trying to drum up press to increase sales doesn't make it a news item. This should be treated the same as any other book/story, regardless of the corporate pimping going on at "news" sites.

I understand that point and agree to an extent, but I think the idea of having to decipher between news items and spoilers becomes very tricky if you try to look at it like that. My easy way to differentiate is whether it is a news item or not. If it's readily available news, then I have no expectation as a member here that I am going to be shielded from the information. I have no problem with people doing just that - I'm not looking to purposely spill the beans about something - but I don't think it should be an expectation when it's something that's being reported everywhere like this, either. And honestly, the original thread title was miles away from being as explicit about this news as the news headlines are.

The bottom line for me is that while it shouldn't be different from exposing a movie/show/book plot, it is different, in this particular circumstance. Now, it's as much a news item as a plane crash.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I understand that point and agree to an extent, but I think the idea of having to decipher between news items and spoilers becomes very tricky if you try to look at it like that. My easy way to differentiate is whether it is a news item or not. If it's readily available news, then I have no expectation as a member here that I am going to be shielded from the information. I have no problem with people doing just that - I'm not looking to purposely spill the beans about something - but I don't think it should be an expectation when it's something that's being reported everywhere like this, either. And honestly, the original thread title was miles away from being as explicit about this news as the news headlines are.

The bottom line for me is that while it shouldn't be different from exposing a movie/show/book plot, it is different, in this particular circumstance. Now, it's as much a news item as a plane crash.

I respectfully disagree.

Can we agree that there is a segment of this community that feels the way I do so it makes sense to be considerate and not give spoilers away to fictional stories in thread titles?

[rkmsuf]

WTF? FOFCers arguing over whether or not you can say that Captain America is killed

lol

[Subby]

" WTF? FOFCers arguing over whether or not you can say that Captain America is killed."

winnah!

[Qwikshot]

Not to threadjack,

but can you believe that Captain America was killed by a sniper!?!

[Mateo]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I want to hear from the people that read Cap America regularly and were potentially offened by knowing this plot line.

I want to hear about someone who still reads comic books as an adult and admit that they are offended knowing Captain America was rubbed.

WTF? FOFCers arguing over whether or not you can say that Captain America is killed.

wtf? The new title is AWESOME!

[Ksyrup]

Someone forgot to remove the WTF from the thread title. Completely gives it away.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mateo

I want to hear about someone who still reads comic books as an adult and admit that they are offended knowing Captain America was rubbed.

WTF? FOFCers arguing over whether or not you can say that Captain America is killed.

wtf? The new title is AWESOME!

What an asshole maneuver.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by wade moore

What an asshole maneuver.

I totally agree. Whoever is responsible for that should get BOXED.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Subby

I totally agree. Whoever is responsible for that should get BOXED.

Hah.

Joking about it in the thread is one thing, actually changing the title is another.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Hah.

Joking about it in the thread is one thing, actually changing the title is another.

I am totally serious. The person that changed the thread title should get two weeks in the hole.

[MrIllini]

Originally Posted by Subby

I totally agree. Whoever is responsible for that should get BOXED.

Seriously...what a prick.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I respectfully disagree.

Can we agree that there is a segment of this community that feels the way I do so it makes sense to be considerate and not give spoilers away to fictional stories in thread titles?

I agree. It's funny, I didn't even post this thread and really, my original thoughts on this were of a more general nature about spoilers, but I still stand by my delineation between news/spoilers and when it is necessary/appropriate to not reveal information in a thread title. But I guess despite my repeated posts in this thread, I'm the anti-spoiler guy who eats babies or something.

Hopefully, this isn't something that happens all that often. But if Monica has triplets next time, I'll be sure to make it a SPOILER ALERT for you and your ilk. How's that?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Subby

I am totally serious. The person that changed the thread title should get two weeks in the hole.

You my friend are an enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in mystery.

[spleen1015]

Who knew SackAttack could cause this much trouble?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Mateo

I want to hear about someone who still reads comic books as an adult and admit that they are offended knowing Captain America was rubbed.

I admit that I still read comic books as an adult, though I was not offended knowing that Captain America was killed. Then again, if it were a character I followed in a series I still read, yeah, I might be pissed knowing something like that ahead of time.

How's it any different than if, for example, before the first episode of the last season of "24" someone titled a thread "WTF!? President Palmer is killed by a sniper!" Just because it's a comic book instead of a tv show, it's fine?

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Mateo

I want to hear about someone who still reads comic books as an adult and admit that they are offended knowing Captain America was rubbed.

I read comic books as an adult. I'm not offended (I would have read the spoiler thread) because I just can't know what happened, but based on the principle of it. Had this been American Idol, a sporting event, a movie, or a popular novel people would be up in arms. Because Comic Books are largely considered childish people think it doesn't matter.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by wade moore

You my friend are an enigma

Hey now. Let's save the race card for when we really need it!

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I agree. It's funny, I didn't even post this thread and really, my original thoughts on this were of a more general nature about spoilers, but I still stand by my delineation between news/spoilers when it is necessary/appropriate to not reveal information in a thread title. But I guess despite my repeated posts in this thread, I'm the anti-spoiler guy who eats babies or something.

Hopefully, this isn't something that happens all that often. But if Monica has triplets next time, I'll be sure to make it a SPOILER ALERT for you and your ilk. How's that?

Monica?

Anyway. I think it's fair that it is assumed that in running Show discussions there will be spoilers after the episode is aired, that in game discussions there will be spoilers as the game airs, and that in book threads there will be spoilers within if the book has been released.

However, none of them have it in the thread title.

Non-Fictional news events are complete fair game to be in the thread title, it's the sporting events and fictional stories that to me should not be in the title - no matter what news agencies are doing. It's such a simple thing to be more generic to be considerate to those that it means something to.

Again, I don't read comics, but it's a principle thing. I know you are good about spoilers, and I've even commented on it in the past in the AI thread. So, this is a philisophical discussion for me to - but in the end I guess my thought is that it does no harm to anyone to avoid the spoilers in the thread title, but it does harm to some to put the spoiler information in the title.