GroupThink Little Rock Rollers - 1994 offseason - Page 2

primelord · 03-15-2003, 12:46 PM

Here are the DC's thoughts.

Dline

I don't think we want to pursue Davison. He has been solid in his time with us, but it does seem like his skills are declining and he has had some health issues the last couple of years. I really don't like any of the top notch DE's on the market. Atleast not for the money they are looking for. There are a couple cheaper solutions we can maybe plug in for Davison. Although they would need to be shifted to LDE.

RDE Deon Covington - 2 yrs, 8.2 mil
RDE Edwin Casas - 1 yr 3.4 mil

Both of those guys have had solid PrPCT's over the last couple years and very good TkPct's. Covington looks like he may be a bit injury prone so we might want to stay away from him. Casas may be a good signing here.

At DT I don't share the enthusiasm to keep Castillo. I think he did ok once he was starting in run situations, but since I am not sold on Hammond either I would rather not have them as our combo. Here are the guys I like.

LDT Kent Wolfe - 4 yrs, 62.5 mil
LDT Jose Wallace - 3 yrs, 24.1 mil
RDT Howard Johnston - 2 yrs, 5 mil

I know we probably can't find the money to do it, but if by trading Armstrong and making some other cuts we can find a way to make a push for Wolfe I would love to do that. If not Wallace could be a cheaper (still expensine though) alternative. His ratings suggest he is a pass rusher only, and he is a very good one at that, but he has very solid tackle numbers over the years too. I think he would be excellent in our system. If we were looking for a bargin priced play3er I think Howard Johnston would be better for the cheap money than Castillo.

LB's

At SLB our old buddy Gerald John is back on the market after having a pretty solid season last year. He is asking for 13.4 million over 3 years which is pretty reasonable and we already know he plays well in our system. He may be the way we want to go. If we don't like John we could look at some of these guys.

SLB Gerald John - 3 yrs, 13.4 mil
SLB Phillip Sotelo - 3 yrs, 8.7 mil

I just listed John again so it's easy to compare. Sotelo was actually John's backup last season. He doesn't have super ratings, but he looks solid and could be decent for the price. If we don;t want to go with either of those guys I think we should look to the draft to fill this area.

CB

I say we trade Armstrong. His cap number is just too high and I think it is very likely we can get one of the top 3 CB's in the draft. Freeing up his cap space may allow us to pursue one of the top 2 DT's o the market and that with one of the top rookie CB's will make our team better.

If we are looking for some insurance against the rookie corner a guy like LCB Stanley Westbrook might be a nice pickup. He has had pretty solid numbers over the years and is only asking for 10.9 mil over 3 years.

primelord · 03-15-2003, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wade moore
Another concern.. if you go in and do recommend player, and do Current Value on RBs with no money restriction, The Ox isn't even in the top 20..

Man I wish we had gotten one of those top two guys.. how the hell did neither of them start last year?! It's unfortunate that they both have long term contracts..

wade,

Your own players don't show up in the recommended players list when they are signed.

wade moore · 03-15-2003, 01:46 PM

sigh.. i'm dumb, thanks for the info prime...

cthomer5000 · 03-15-2003, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primelord
[b]Here are the DC's thoughts.

Dline
At DT I don't share the enthusiasm to keep Castillo. I think he did ok once he was starting in run situations, but since I am not sold on Hammond either I would rather not have them as our combo. Here are the guys I like.

LDT Kent Wolfe - 4 yrs, 62.5 mil
LDT Jose Wallace - 3 yrs, 24.1 mil
RDT Howard Johnston - 2 yrs, 5 mil

If we were looking for a bargin priced play3er I think Howard Johnston would be better for the cheap money than Castillo.

Wolfe would be nice, but probably a real long-shot. If it came down to a cheap player, I think Castillo makes much more sense. He played nearly as good as Ramsey last year, is considered the defensive front leader, and would maintain some consistency.

Man, does anyone else think the cap situation is going to be a nightmare in another 2 years or so?

QuikSand · 03-15-2003, 05:01 PM

I'm not yet feeling much of a consensus... but I think we are tending toward these moves:

Try to trade G Isaac Terry for a 2nd round pick
Try to trade CB Alonzo Armstronig for a 1st round pick?
Try to trade QB Barker for ???
If we re-sign RB Crawford, we try to deal RB Oksenberg

Pursue a free agent at SLB

Pick a CB with our top draft selection

wade moore · 03-15-2003, 05:22 PM

What are the votes for the trade offer on the line for Kramer?

I see Bee's recent points and they make a lot of sense, I'm still not 100% sold on pulling the trigger though.. However, as my line coach, if it's up in the air, I will defer to him.. if he is comfortable with the move, we can go for it..

As for Barker's trade value... that's hard to say.. in many ways he is almost as good as Coghill in bars... Perhaps a 2nd or 3rd rounder?

cthomer5000 · 03-15-2003, 06:13 PM

I say no on trading Kramer

QuikSand · 03-15-2003, 07:21 PM

I think I also lean against trading Kramer... he's very solid, and I'm not sure what we get from a second rounf pick that's worh much more than a serious star-caliber player for one more year at a rock-bottom price. Especially since we're still in "play for now" mode, I don't think the deal works for us.

QuikSand · 03-15-2003, 07:52 PM

Okay, here’s my back-of-envelope math on where we are right now:

As of right now – we have $32.75m in cap room. Some $23m is eaten up with offers to our required pursuits of RB Crawford, WR Hill and an anticipated signing of TE Dresow. I’m assuming that if we re-sign Crawford, though, we will cut or trade RB Oksenberg… so we will only be spending something like $9-10m at the “star RB position” either way. So, assuming we end up re-signing Hill and Dresow, reworking a deal with SS Bridgeman, and paying one stud RB – we’ll have something like $18m to spend. And with those moves in place, we’ll have 32 players signed – we’ll need another 28 before it’s done.

Additional free agent signings I’m prepared to make are:

LB Gerald John – 3yrs, $13.2m
DE Edwin Casas – 3yrs, $10.0m
DT Howard Johnston – 2yrs, $5.0m
G Ray Gardner – 3yrs, $4.9m
CB Korey Godfrey- 2yrs, $2.7m

Assuming we get them all (fair, considering our track record to date), that would tally some $12.5m this year. Again, assuming this went flawlessly, we’d be sitting on $5.5 million to spend.

Our draft coming up is slated to cost us $11.4 million – meaning that simply put we are way over budget. We’re $6m short of simply being able to sign our rookie class, not to mention fill up our roster to our required 60 players. So, we have cuts or trades to make, to the tune of something like $15 million.

The consensus seems to be that we will deal G Isaac Terry, which will save us $4.6m this year. That helps.

After that, it would probably be the rumored departure of CB Alonzo Armstrong that would finish the job. Cutting or trading him would save us some big bucks – nearly $13m this year. We could then afford to pay a draft pick this year – meaning that we could trade him for a pick this year. If we add in a trade of QB John Barker (saving us $3.4m), then we’d clear more space, and again be able to recycle funds into the draft.

So, by my math, that would leave us with a fairly stable financial plan, expanding on my first cut from earlier:

Try to trade G Isaac Terry for a 2nd round pick
Try to trade CB Alonzo Armstrong for a 1st round pick?
Try to trade QB Barker for a 2nd round pick
If we re-sign RB Crawford, we try to deal RB Oksenberg

Pursue free agents at SLB, DE, DT, and RG

Pick a CB with our top draft selection

Does that leave us dreadfully inept anywhere? I realize it leaves us without RT Marshall Cunningham… but I figure that as we approach the end of the FA period, we will be better able to assess our restricted FA players, and he’s near the top of the list. (Same goes for FB Ethan Brock, though I have trouble seeing us putting up that kind of cash for him)

That would be my basic plan from here… I realize it doesn’t really see us making big improvements via free agency, but that just seems to be the nature of our problem right now.

More thoughts? Or are we ready to start this onward?

primelord · 03-15-2003, 07:54 PM

ct,

I am going to have to disagree with you on Castillo. Here are last years stats for Castillo and free agent Johnston.

Code:

Name	Tkl	Ast	Sck	Blk	Hur	Rply	Pply	PrPct	TkP
Castilo	16	9	1.5	0	1	129	178	1.4	8.6
Jhnston	58	22	5.5	1	11	460	492	3.5	8.9

Using your 'impact' rating Johnston graded out to a 10.24% impact. Castillo graded out to a 8.95%. Johnston is looking for 2.2 million in his first year. Castillo is looking for 2.5 million. I think if we are looking to go cheap Johnston is the obvious choice.

However with that being said I would much rather we try and go for one of the top two FA DT's.

cthomer5000 · 03-15-2003, 08:00 PM

Quik, I think all of the above is pretty much the consensus except for maybe 1 thing. At guard I think Conrad Kelly might be a better option.

Wade prefers him, and I'm totally neutral on him vs. Ray Gardner. But seeing how Kelly has better potential, maybe he's the choice?

primelord · 03-15-2003, 08:02 PM

Quik,

I am guessing to garauntee we get a first round pick for Armstrong we would need to offer Armstrong and atleast a 3rd maybe even a second.

primelord · 03-15-2003, 08:05 PM

Quik,

We don't really have a FS either unless we are going to put Brooks into the starting lineup next year. The safeties have a pretty big role in our defense. Maybe if we can't sign someone we need to look at a safety pretty high in the draft too.

cthomer5000 · 03-15-2003, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primelord
Quik,

We don't really have a FS either unless we are going to put Brooks into the starting lineup next year. The safeties have a pretty big role in our defense. Maybe if we can't sign someone we need to look at a safety pretty high in the draft too.

After we trade our guys maybe we should ust those picks to move up into the top 10?

That way we could snag a CB with our current 1st rounder and take the killer safety that's available.

primelord · 03-15-2003, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthomer5000
After we trade our guys maybe we should ust those picks to move up into the top 10?

That way we could snag a CB with our current 1st rounder and take the killer safety that's available.

I thought about that, but I am trying not to be too selfish.

cthomer5000 · 03-15-2003, 08:54 PM

I'll probably be off the board until late tomorrow, I look forward to seeing what takes place between now and then. Should be interesting.

wade moore · 03-15-2003, 09:01 PM

I think the only wholes we will have on offense is the right side of the line.. Cunningham is not THAT crucial as we're still unsure as to which of our current RTs is the best starter anyways... at RG, I will second what ct said -- I prefer Kelly.. QS, I don't know if you glanced at him or not, but you do seem to have a good knack for comparing two players and seeing which is better for the future -- so if you have, I assume you preferred Gardner..

Unfortunately, it does not seem like the draft will help the line immediately unless we're prepared to spend a top 15 pick on a Guard (doubtful with the defensive needs)... at the same time, losing brock will hurt.. not extensively, but will hurt.. we will need to look to replace him with a FB that can catch decently and block well.. Perhaps make an offer to FA Dan DeWalters or Randy Chandler? Norbert Betz may be an option in the draft -- he looks like a solid young guy at the position.. in fact, there a few good guys in the draft so we could start looking around the 3rd-4th (maybe even 5th?) round for a replacement to Brock?

QuikSand · 03-15-2003, 09:19 PM

Okay... with that much consensus, and also a good deal of interest in the upcoming draft... I have effected our first trade. The top team interested in Isaac Terry was Hawk Mountain, and I added in QB John Barker, and secured the #24 pick in the coming draft for those two players.

I might have been able to get another pick out of the deal, but was pretty sure that we could get their #1 with that pair of players. So, we now have three selections in the first round... and perhaps enough capital to move up in round one if there's a particular player we covet.

Bee · 03-15-2003, 10:01 PM

My opinion on the Kelly vs Gardner issue:

Kelly has only started one season, so he might have a little more skill to gain with starting time.

Gardner is a better pass blocker right now and is willing to sign a 3 year deal as opposed to a 2 year deal.

Kelly is more attractive long term, but he only wants a 2 year contract. After his contract is up he'll be asking for big money is my guess. Gardner is more attractive immediately (this season) because he's a slightly better all around blocker right now IMO, but he doesn't have Kelly's upside long term.

Either guy is fine with me. It looks like ct and wade prefer Kelly so I'd suggest going ahead and going after him unless QS sees a possible 5th year bust in him.

Bee · 03-15-2003, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primelord
Quik,

I am guessing to garauntee we get a first round pick for Armstrong we would need to offer Armstrong and atleast a 3rd maybe even a second.

Should we do that or just go for a 2nd rounder for him?

primelord · 03-15-2003, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bee
Should we do that or just go for a 2nd rounder for him?

Since we have three first rounders anyway why not go ahead and offer Armstrong and our 2nd for a first? That gives us four first round picks. Then we can maybe use two of them to move up and land 3 impact players.

cthomer5000 · 03-16-2003, 09:05 AM

I'm confused. Where did the 3rd first rounder come from?
We have the #9, we just traded the guard and QB for another 1st rounder. ..where's the 3rd one from?

Doug5984 · 03-16-2003, 09:33 AM

"I'm confused. Where did the 3rd first rounder come from?
We have the #9, we just traded the guard and QB for another 1st rounder. ..where's the 3rd one from?"

The # 9 is when we traded our first rounder last season for a first rounder this season (we threw in a 3rd or something...) Then the # 24 is from the trade with the G & QB...And then the # 31 is our original first round pick.

Doug5984 · 03-16-2003, 10:35 AM

Ok- I just got home from vacation and was able to take a look at the file...I like the trade we made for an extra 1st round pick, it should come in handy...Since we don't have much cap room to work with I have been looking for quite a few really cheap players who would do pretty good...
RB Stephen Crities- 2 year minimum salary....He seems like he would be a pretty good backup RB, I would not want him starting, or having to catch the ball but purely running it i think he would be a nice pickup.
FB Don Herandez- 2 year minimum salary....He is good enough to start for us, and would be a very good back-up FB, has a good Power Inside rushing so he could even get a few carries if we needed him to.
WR Wes Particelli- 2 year minimum salary....I am glad we did not draft him in our first draft...he ended up being a recieving bust sorta...He is still a pretty good return man, and could also be a decent # 4 reciever.
C Zach Jones- 3 year minimum salary...He is acctually a good Center, he could start for us, but would be a very good backup to have, and at this cost it doesn't hurt us to atleast bring him to training camp(He has started the past 2 seasons).
RG Ray Gardner- 3 year, 4.7 million (first year minimum)- He has been a 4 year starter with the Armadillos, he could be a very good backup for us, and even possibly start if we needed him to...I would really like to sign this guy even more now that we got rid of our other G.
Another G is Conrad Kelly- I think I have seen his name mentioned in this thread already.
DT Gino Wicks 2 year minimum salary...He is a decent backup, if we need a player at this position he would be a solid pickup, but we might be better trying to get someone with a late round pick.
OLB Edward Pearson 2 year minimum salary....I really like this guy, is a 59 Run D..and a 46 Zona...he seems like he would fit our D pretty good...The only problem with him is that he is only 219lbs, so I doubt we would be able to change his position.
CB Corey Carlson 2 year minimum salary....He has pretty good ratings (55/56 INT, 48/51 Zone, 46/48 Run D)...He has horrible endurance, but I could see him being a very effective nickle or dime back.
Another CB I really like is CB Courtney Ballard- he is not very good at INTs, but he is pretty solid across the board (besides that) and he still has a bit of potential left to.
SS Richie Beyer 3 year 5.38 million- He is a very good saftey, still pretty young, and could be a starter if we needed him to, but would be a damn good backup also.

Those are just a few of the good players that can be found for minimum salaries...but since the minimum salary is now at 1 million we might be better just waiting and signing a bunch of undrafted guys (the only problem with them is you only get a 1 year deal).

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 12:45 PM

Okay, I have added no-bonus offers to CB Carlson, C Jones, and SS Beyer. That should help us with some of our roster-filling, though we may end up cutting some of these guys even before training camp.

Anyone else care to help guide this ship?

primelord · 03-16-2003, 12:52 PM

Lets go ahead and try to trade Armstrong. It looks like 6 different teams have a 99 interest in Armstrong. Do our house rules lets us pick from that list or do we just have to take the team on the top?

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 01:05 PM

Rules aren't too clear... do you have a proposal in mind with a particular team? Try to get a fairly early round one pick, perhaps, by adding in one of our own?

primelord · 03-16-2003, 01:16 PM

Well Manhattan is the only team that has a high pick. They have the #2 overall, but I am not sure we could get that.

I would say we offer Tulsa Aromstorng and our 2nd round pick for their first round (19). Then we try and package 2 of our lower 1st round picks for a top 15 pick. If we want to try and land a CB and that top safety I think we have to have two picks inside the top 15.

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 01:18 PM

Hmmm... maybe we shoudl try to get a first rounder next year for Armstrong? I really don't see this as an exemplary draft, and we coudl do without another $2m+ salary this year. I think that's my leaning - it would still give us capital if we wanted to try to move up this year.

primelord · 03-16-2003, 01:22 PM

Ok since I think we are allowed to shop around for picks. I checked and Key West will give us the #11 pick for our #24 and #31. So if we make that deal for Armstrong (hopefully they take it ) that would give us the #9, 11, and 19 picks in the draft.

primelord · 03-16-2003, 01:25 PM

Thats fine Quik. We can just grap an extra pick for next years draft. And then we can still do the deal with Key West if we wanted to to get the 9 and 11.

I still not sure I would offer less than Armstrong and a 2nd though. I am very paranoid we are going to end up getting nothing for him.

wade moore · 03-16-2003, 01:26 PM

I tend to lean towards what quicksand said, go for a #1 next year... this draft seems to be lacking for the most part, and the salary will hurt.. we can hope for a RB next year

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 01:26 PM

Well... ouru string of good fortune with trading has come to an end. I approached Louisville, offering CB Armstrong for their 1ts round pick next year... and they declined (not very close). So, we release Armstrong, and move onward - relieved of his salary, but with no compensation. Had to happen eventually, I guess.

primelord · 03-16-2003, 01:31 PM

Oh well that is unfortunate, but like you said it was bound to happen. Do we want to make that deal with Key West?

Doug5984 · 03-16-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primelord
Oh well that is unfortunate, but like you said it was bound to happen. Do we want to make that deal with Key West?

To make the deal with key west I think it is best to wait until our # 9 pick on draft day....if someone is there that we still want really bad then I think we should make it...but we could get really unlucky and have all the good players go before it gets to our pick...I think we should use our first pick on a CB, if we can get one of the top 3 I think we will be ok at CB next season.

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 02:04 PM

Okay, after releasing CB Armstrong, we move ahead with our free agency process. We are pursuing several players that we want, and candidly a few that we’d be happy to see go elsewhere (but don’t tell the fans this).

In week one, WR Wayne Hill, who falls into that second category, gets an offer from three other teams – we might see him heading elsewhere after all. We look likely to sign everyone else.

In week two, RB Duane Crawford accepts our deal, and so we now have two highly-salaried running backs on board. I’d rather have Oksenberg than Crawford, but now it seems we’ll go the other way. We haven’t talked much about our demands for Oksenberg, but after getting stung with Armstrong, I’m inclined to be fairly modest. I still like the idea of trying to get into round one next year, so I offer our 2nd pick and Oksenberg for Norfolk’s first pick next year. Ouch – I strike out again, getting yet another “not very close” response, and we are forced to release Oksenberg. (I decide to accomplish this by way of a trade, rather than a cut… leaving the door open for s return at some future point, at least – we deal The Ox to Norfol and swap 7th round picks)

WR Wayne Hill takes our deal after all – so much for Ocean City’s offer. The rest of the pieces fall into place – we get the players we were pursuing.

As the FA process winds down, we have $29m in cap space remaining. We need to re-sign TE Lamont Dresow, who will cost us around $5m this year. I work out a new three year contract with “classy” safety Donnie Bridgeman, at $8m per year – saving us a little more than $1m under this year’s cap. And so, including our $14m draft of nine players (and penciling Dresow’s anticipated contract) we sit at $11m to fill in 13 spots on the roster. We are fairly well on track, I think.

I make offers to RB Jack McAfee, DE Skip Battle, G Bobby VanDewege, C Kenny Shepard, CB Levin Sheff, FS Jimmy Geffen, and DT Teddy Hill – getting all those guys locked up at minsal prices (no bonus involved with any of them). After that, we stand at 44 players signed, plus Dresow and 9 rookies – we’re within six spots of our target of 60. And we have about $6m in free money available to work with.

I finally go ahead and work out a new deal with TE Lamont Dresow – he gets a little less than his request, but it is a four-year deal with $6m up front, so we are fairly well committed to him. He looks like an excellent player, but it’s a big ticket for a position like tight end.

CB Alonzo Armstrong sits through the entire FA process without getting an offer – it looks like he’ll be among the legions of “one year” players this year, sitting on someone’s roster for a million bucks or so. QB Brock Morton is another such player - a guy with real talent, who cannot seem to break through in this league, for some reason.

That brings us to the rookie draft. Again, we hold three first round picks this season - #9, #24, and #31. Our stated goal has been to grab a cornerback with the top pick, so I feel comfortable going ahead with that general idea. Borders and Maffet are the two guys who would be best for us… if one goes off the board, I will stop the draft so we can decide if we want to try to move up to get the other. (I personally don’t like Dominic Bryant nearly as much, though some will disagree)

Code:

1. Puget Sound - Dotson, Leonard, T, Bethune Cookman
2. Manhattan - Ellard, Leo, DE, Georgia
3. Providence - Holguin, Jessie, G, Houston
4. Lake Erie - Borders, Reggie, CB, Purdue

Okay, it’s gut check time. In my opinion, we want Maffet and not Bryant… but Bryant is higher on the overall list (he was higher than Borders, too, of course). So, we can risk it, and hope we get him to slide to #9 – or we can make a move and get up to #5 to play it safe. My last two risk-taking attempts didn’t pan out, so I’ll leave things here, and we can sort through what we’d like to do.

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 02:07 PM

First file update (if you feel you need it)

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 02:09 PM

Second file update

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 02:11 PM

For what it's worth, it looks liek we may be facing a chance to re-sign our FB, if we can clear out a little cap space. So, that's something to think about - he'll cost us about $2.5n this year - we'd need to clear out perhaps a million or two to re-up with both him and RT Cunningham.

primelord · 03-16-2003, 02:16 PM

I say let it ride. I think Maffet will fall to us at 9. Like you said Bryant is highr on the list so I think he will go next.

primelord · 03-16-2003, 02:22 PM

BTW it looks like we (we being me) dropped the ball on checking weights for a position change again. The DT Howard Johnston isn't big enough to switch to the LDT spot and Ramsey is our current RDT. So either we bite the bullet and move Ramsey to LDT or we use Hammond in just a backup role.

Doug5984 · 03-16-2003, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primelord
I say let it ride. I think Maffet will fall to us at 9. Like you said Bryant is highr on the list so I think he will go next.

I agree on taking a chance that he will fall to 9....although our luck has been pretty bad today getting burnt on 2 trades

Also- are there any opionions on the 2 DEs Antoine & Dunlap, if for some reason we don't get a CB at 9...do you think either of these guys would be a good pickup for the LDE spot?

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primelord
BTW it looks like we (we being me) dropped the ball on checking weights for a position change again.

Or, we could be me.

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 02:27 PM

Moving Ramsey to LDT causes a meaningful, but not ridiculous loss in his current ratings. I'd rather not do it... but we may not have much choice in the matter.

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 02:29 PM

Okay, we roll the dice, and wait out the next few draft picks...

Code:

5. Champaign - Wilton, Nicky, QB, Texas
6. Fort Knox - Bryant, Dominic, CB, North Carolina State
7. Niagara Falls - Paton, Reuben, T, Kansas State
8. Napa Valley - Antoine, Frankie, DE, Duke
9. Little Rock - Maffett, Austin, CB, Wake Forest

So, now we have our corner. Should I just zip ahead to our next pick?

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 02:37 PM

Ah, the heck with it. Since nobody really jumped out at us in pre-draft discussions, I don't have the sense that there is one particular player who we'd move up to get. So, this brings us to our second pick:

Code:

10. Ocean City - Dunlap, Shawn, DE, Oregon
11. Key West - Butler, Leland, DT, Illinois
12. Tijuana - Cornwell, Tim, RB, Memphis
13. Norfolk - Mandarich, Steve, DT, Purdue
14. Memphis - Myers, Floyd, DE, Murray State
15. Pensacola - Harry, Bo, S, Tulsa
16. Ypsilanti - Buckner, Carlos, DE, Florida State
17. Athens - Pierce, Randal, WR, Arizona State
18. Sault Ste. Marie - Bishop, Dominic, QB, Vanderbilt
19. Tulsa - Roaf, J.R., T, Kansas
20. Louisville - Borders, Christian, T, Southern California
21. Kitty Hawk - Flannery, Riddick, DT, Michigan
22. Thunder Bay - Harmon, Dennis, T, Air Force
23. Bermuda - Fahey, Nate, WR, Morehead State

This leaves the LB I like, Vincent Wellman, still available, as well as two other promising LB prospects in Marc Davidson and Renaldo Nixon. This draft goes deep with LB prospects, it seems.

DE A.J. Hitchcock might be a future starter, there are solid players at WR and RB... but nobody else really jumps out at me at this point.

primelord · 03-16-2003, 02:47 PM

Hmm I guess we didn't want to discuss moving up to get S Bo Harry.

I don't like Nixon much because of his very low Zone abilities. And we would have to switch Davidson's position. So I would lean towards Wellman if we were going to go with a defensive pick here.

Doug5984 · 03-16-2003, 02:48 PM

I like SLB Vincent Wellman the best for this pick...He just seems to be the best player available...

QuikSand · 03-16-2003, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primelord
Hmm I guess we didn't want to discuss moving up to get S Bo Harry.

Harry looks pretty good to me - fairly little downside. He might have made a nice pick for us.

Had anyone, at any point in this entire thread ever mentioned him, I would more seriously regret my decision not to hold open the option of moving up. But I just double-checked... the word "Harry" didn't appear in this thread until I reported him gone.

Regrettably, there simply aren't any other guys at safety who look like they are worth a high pick.

primelord · 03-16-2003, 02:53 PM

Sorry Quik that was my bad. I made several references to him in the thread, but I just kept referring to him as the top safety. It's all good though. We'll be ok without him.

03-15-2003, 07:54 PM	#60
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	ct, I am going to have to disagree with you on Castillo. Here are last years stats for Castillo and free agent Johnston. Code: Name Tkl Ast Sck Blk Hur Rply Pply PrPct TkP Castilo 16 9 1.5 0 1 129 178 1.4 8.6 Jhnston 58 22 5.5 1 11 460 492 3.5 8.9 Using your 'impact' rating Johnston graded out to a 10.24% impact. Castillo graded out to a 8.95%. Johnston is looking for 2.2 million in his first year. Castillo is looking for 2.5 million. I think if we are looking to go cheap Johnston is the obvious choice. However with that being said I would much rather we try and go for one of the top two FA DT's. __________________ . Last edited by primelord : 03-15-2003 at 07:55 PM.

03-15-2003, 08:02 PM	#62
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Quik, I am guessing to garauntee we get a first round pick for Armstrong we would need to offer Armstrong and atleast a 3rd maybe even a second. __________________ .

03-15-2003, 08:05 PM	#63
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Quik, We don't really have a FS either unless we are going to put Brooks into the starting lineup next year. The safeties have a pretty big role in our defense. Maybe if we can't sign someone we need to look at a safety pretty high in the draft too. __________________ .

03-16-2003, 12:52 PM	#76
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Lets go ahead and try to trade Armstrong. It looks like 6 different teams have a 99 interest in Armstrong. Do our house rules lets us pick from that list or do we just have to take the team on the top? __________________ .

03-16-2003, 01:16 PM	#78
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Well Manhattan is the only team that has a high pick. They have the #2 overall, but I am not sure we could get that. I would say we offer Tulsa Aromstorng and our 2nd round pick for their first round (19). Then we try and package 2 of our lower 1st round picks for a top 15 pick. If we want to try and land a CB and that top safety I think we have to have two picks inside the top 15. __________________ .

03-15-2003, 05:01 PM	#55
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I'm not yet feeling much of a consensus... but I think we are tending toward these moves: Try to trade G Isaac Terry for a 2nd round pick Try to trade CB Alonzo Armstronig for a 1st round pick? Try to trade QB Barker for ??? If we re-sign RB Crawford, we try to deal RB Oksenberg Pursue a free agent at SLB Pick a CB with our top draft selection

03-15-2003, 07:21 PM	#58
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I think I also lean against trading Kramer... he's very solid, and I'm not sure what we get from a second rounf pick that's worh much more than a serious star-caliber player for one more year at a rock-bottom price. Especially since we're still in "play for now" mode, I don't think the deal works for us.

03-15-2003, 07:52 PM	#59
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Okay, here’s my back-of-envelope math on where we are right now: As of right now – we have $32.75m in cap room. Some $23m is eaten up with offers to our required pursuits of RB Crawford, WR Hill and an anticipated signing of TE Dresow. I’m assuming that if we re-sign Crawford, though, we will cut or trade RB Oksenberg… so we will only be spending something like $9-10m at the “star RB position” either way. So, assuming we end up re-signing Hill and Dresow, reworking a deal with SS Bridgeman, and paying one stud RB – we’ll have something like $18m to spend. And with those moves in place, we’ll have 32 players signed – we’ll need another 28 before it’s done. Additional free agent signings I’m prepared to make are: LB Gerald John – 3yrs, $13.2m DE Edwin Casas – 3yrs, $10.0m DT Howard Johnston – 2yrs, $5.0m G Ray Gardner – 3yrs, $4.9m CB Korey Godfrey- 2yrs, $2.7m Assuming we get them all (fair, considering our track record to date), that would tally some $12.5m this year. Again, assuming this went flawlessly, we’d be sitting on $5.5 million to spend. Our draft coming up is slated to cost us $11.4 million – meaning that simply put we are way over budget. We’re $6m short of simply being able to sign our rookie class, not to mention fill up our roster to our required 60 players. So, we have cuts or trades to make, to the tune of something like $15 million. The consensus seems to be that we will deal G Isaac Terry, which will save us $4.6m this year. That helps. After that, it would probably be the rumored departure of CB Alonzo Armstrong that would finish the job. Cutting or trading him would save us some big bucks – nearly $13m this year. We could then afford to pay a draft pick this year – meaning that we could trade him for a pick this year. If we add in a trade of QB John Barker (saving us $3.4m), then we’d clear more space, and again be able to recycle funds into the draft. So, by my math, that would leave us with a fairly stable financial plan, expanding on my first cut from earlier: Try to trade G Isaac Terry for a 2nd round pick Try to trade CB Alonzo Armstrong for a 1st round pick? Try to trade QB Barker for a 2nd round pick If we re-sign RB Crawford, we try to deal RB Oksenberg Pursue free agents at SLB, DE, DT, and RG Pick a CB with our top draft selection Does that leave us dreadfully inept anywhere? I realize it leaves us without RT Marshall Cunningham… but I figure that as we approach the end of the FA period, we will be better able to assess our restricted FA players, and he’s near the top of the list. (Same goes for FB Ethan Brock, though I have trouble seeing us putting up that kind of cash for him) That would be my basic plan from here… I realize it doesn’t really see us making big improvements via free agency, but that just seems to be the nature of our problem right now. More thoughts? Or are we ready to start this onward?

03-15-2003, 09:19 PM	#68
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Okay... with that much consensus, and also a good deal of interest in the upcoming draft... I have effected our first trade. The top team interested in Isaac Terry was Hawk Mountain, and I added in QB John Barker, and secured the #24 pick in the coming draft for those two players. I might have been able to get another pick out of the deal, but was pretty sure that we could get their #1 with that pair of players. So, we now have three selections in the first round... and perhaps enough capital to move up in round one if there's a particular player we covet.

03-15-2003, 10:01 PM	#69
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	My opinion on the Kelly vs Gardner issue: Kelly has only started one season, so he might have a little more skill to gain with starting time. Gardner is a better pass blocker right now and is willing to sign a 3 year deal as opposed to a 2 year deal. Kelly is more attractive long term, but he only wants a 2 year contract. After his contract is up he'll be asking for big money is my guess. Gardner is more attractive immediately (this season) because he's a slightly better all around blocker right now IMO, but he doesn't have Kelly's upside long term. Either guy is fine with me. It looks like ct and wade prefer Kelly so I'd suggest going ahead and going after him unless QS sees a possible 5th year bust in him.

03-16-2003, 09:33 AM	#73
Doug5984 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Louisiana	"I'm confused. Where did the 3rd first rounder come from? We have the #9, we just traded the guard and QB for another 1st rounder. ..where's the 3rd one from?" The # 9 is when we traded our first rounder last season for a first rounder this season (we threw in a 3rd or something...) Then the # 24 is from the trade with the G & QB...And then the # 31 is our original first round pick.

03-16-2003, 10:35 AM	#74
Doug5984 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Louisiana	Ok- I just got home from vacation and was able to take a look at the file...I like the trade we made for an extra 1st round pick, it should come in handy...Since we don't have much cap room to work with I have been looking for quite a few really cheap players who would do pretty good... RB Stephen Crities- 2 year minimum salary....He seems like he would be a pretty good backup RB, I would not want him starting, or having to catch the ball but purely running it i think he would be a nice pickup. FB Don Herandez- 2 year minimum salary....He is good enough to start for us, and would be a very good back-up FB, has a good Power Inside rushing so he could even get a few carries if we needed him to. WR Wes Particelli- 2 year minimum salary....I am glad we did not draft him in our first draft...he ended up being a recieving bust sorta...He is still a pretty good return man, and could also be a decent # 4 reciever. C Zach Jones- 3 year minimum salary...He is acctually a good Center, he could start for us, but would be a very good backup to have, and at this cost it doesn't hurt us to atleast bring him to training camp(He has started the past 2 seasons). RG Ray Gardner- 3 year, 4.7 million (first year minimum)- He has been a 4 year starter with the Armadillos, he could be a very good backup for us, and even possibly start if we needed him to...I would really like to sign this guy even more now that we got rid of our other G. Another G is Conrad Kelly- I think I have seen his name mentioned in this thread already. DT Gino Wicks 2 year minimum salary...He is a decent backup, if we need a player at this position he would be a solid pickup, but we might be better trying to get someone with a late round pick. OLB Edward Pearson 2 year minimum salary....I really like this guy, is a 59 Run D..and a 46 Zona...he seems like he would fit our D pretty good...The only problem with him is that he is only 219lbs, so I doubt we would be able to change his position. CB Corey Carlson 2 year minimum salary....He has pretty good ratings (55/56 INT, 48/51 Zone, 46/48 Run D)...He has horrible endurance, but I could see him being a very effective nickle or dime back. Another CB I really like is CB Courtney Ballard- he is not very good at INTs, but he is pretty solid across the board (besides that) and he still has a bit of potential left to. SS Richie Beyer 3 year 5.38 million- He is a very good saftey, still pretty young, and could be a starter if we needed him to, but would be a damn good backup also. Those are just a few of the good players that can be found for minimum salaries...but since the minimum salary is now at 1 million we might be better just waiting and signing a bunch of undrafted guys (the only problem with them is you only get a 1 year deal).

03-16-2003, 12:45 PM	#75
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Okay, I have added no-bonus offers to CB Carlson, C Jones, and SS Beyer. That should help us with some of our roster-filling, though we may end up cutting some of these guys even before training camp. Anyone else care to help guide this ship?

03-16-2003, 01:05 PM	#77
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Rules aren't too clear... do you have a proposal in mind with a particular team? Try to get a fairly early round one pick, perhaps, by adding in one of our own?

03-16-2003, 01:18 PM	#79
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Hmmm... maybe we shoudl try to get a first rounder next year for Armstrong? I really don't see this as an exemplary draft, and we coudl do without another $2m+ salary this year. I think that's my leaning - it would still give us capital if we wanted to try to move up this year.

03-16-2003, 01:22 PM	#80
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Ok since I think we are allowed to shop around for picks. I checked and Key West will give us the #11 pick for our #24 and #31. So if we make that deal for Armstrong (hopefully they take it ) that would give us the #9, 11, and 19 picks in the draft. __________________ .

03-16-2003, 01:25 PM	#81
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Thats fine Quik. We can just grap an extra pick for next years draft. And then we can still do the deal with Key West if we wanted to to get the 9 and 11. I still not sure I would offer less than Armstrong and a 2nd though. I am very paranoid we are going to end up getting nothing for him. __________________ .

03-16-2003, 01:26 PM	#83
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Well... ouru string of good fortune with trading has come to an end. I approached Louisville, offering CB Armstrong for their 1ts round pick next year... and they declined (not very close). So, we release Armstrong, and move onward - relieved of his salary, but with no compensation. Had to happen eventually, I guess.

03-16-2003, 01:31 PM	#84
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Oh well that is unfortunate, but like you said it was bound to happen. Do we want to make that deal with Key West? __________________ .

03-16-2003, 02:04 PM	#86
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Okay, after releasing CB Armstrong, we move ahead with our free agency process. We are pursuing several players that we want, and candidly a few that we’d be happy to see go elsewhere (but don’t tell the fans this). In week one, WR Wayne Hill, who falls into that second category, gets an offer from three other teams – we might see him heading elsewhere after all. We look likely to sign everyone else. In week two, RB Duane Crawford accepts our deal, and so we now have two highly-salaried running backs on board. I’d rather have Oksenberg than Crawford, but now it seems we’ll go the other way. We haven’t talked much about our demands for Oksenberg, but after getting stung with Armstrong, I’m inclined to be fairly modest. I still like the idea of trying to get into round one next year, so I offer our 2nd pick and Oksenberg for Norfolk’s first pick next year. Ouch – I strike out again, getting yet another “not very close” response, and we are forced to release Oksenberg. (I decide to accomplish this by way of a trade, rather than a cut… leaving the door open for s return at some future point, at least – we deal The Ox to Norfol and swap 7th round picks) WR Wayne Hill takes our deal after all – so much for Ocean City’s offer. The rest of the pieces fall into place – we get the players we were pursuing. As the FA process winds down, we have $29m in cap space remaining. We need to re-sign TE Lamont Dresow, who will cost us around $5m this year. I work out a new three year contract with “classy” safety Donnie Bridgeman, at $8m per year – saving us a little more than $1m under this year’s cap. And so, including our $14m draft of nine players (and penciling Dresow’s anticipated contract) we sit at $11m to fill in 13 spots on the roster. We are fairly well on track, I think. I make offers to RB Jack McAfee, DE Skip Battle, G Bobby VanDewege, C Kenny Shepard, CB Levin Sheff, FS Jimmy Geffen, and DT Teddy Hill – getting all those guys locked up at minsal prices (no bonus involved with any of them). After that, we stand at 44 players signed, plus Dresow and 9 rookies – we’re within six spots of our target of 60. And we have about $6m in free money available to work with. I finally go ahead and work out a new deal with TE Lamont Dresow – he gets a little less than his request, but it is a four-year deal with $6m up front, so we are fairly well committed to him. He looks like an excellent player, but it’s a big ticket for a position like tight end. CB Alonzo Armstrong sits through the entire FA process without getting an offer – it looks like he’ll be among the legions of “one year” players this year, sitting on someone’s roster for a million bucks or so. QB Brock Morton is another such player - a guy with real talent, who cannot seem to break through in this league, for some reason. That brings us to the rookie draft. Again, we hold three first round picks this season - #9, #24, and #31. Our stated goal has been to grab a cornerback with the top pick, so I feel comfortable going ahead with that general idea. Borders and Maffet are the two guys who would be best for us… if one goes off the board, I will stop the draft so we can decide if we want to try to move up to get the other. (I personally don’t like Dominic Bryant nearly as much, though some will disagree) Code: 1. Puget Sound - Dotson, Leonard, T, Bethune Cookman 2. Manhattan - Ellard, Leo, DE, Georgia 3. Providence - Holguin, Jessie, G, Houston 4. Lake Erie - Borders, Reggie, CB, Purdue Okay, it’s gut check time. In my opinion, we want Maffet and not Bryant… but Bryant is higher on the overall list (he was higher than Borders, too, of course). So, we can risk it, and hope we get him to slide to #9 – or we can make a move and get up to #5 to play it safe. My last two risk-taking attempts didn’t pan out, so I’ll leave things here, and we can sort through what we’d like to do.

03-16-2003, 02:07 PM	#87
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	First file update (if you feel you need it)

03-16-2003, 02:09 PM	#88
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Second file update

03-16-2003, 02:11 PM	#89
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	For what it's worth, it looks liek we may be facing a chance to re-sign our FB, if we can clear out a little cap space. So, that's something to think about - he'll cost us about $2.5n this year - we'd need to clear out perhaps a million or two to re-up with both him and RT Cunningham.

03-16-2003, 02:16 PM	#90
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	I say let it ride. I think Maffet will fall to us at 9. Like you said Bryant is highr on the list so I think he will go next. __________________ .

03-16-2003, 02:22 PM	#91
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	BTW it looks like we (we being me) dropped the ball on checking weights for a position change again. The DT Howard Johnston isn't big enough to switch to the LDT spot and Ramsey is our current RDT. So either we bite the bullet and move Ramsey to LDT or we use Hammond in just a backup role. __________________ .

03-16-2003, 02:27 PM	#94
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Moving Ramsey to LDT causes a meaningful, but not ridiculous loss in his current ratings. I'd rather not do it... but we may not have much choice in the matter.

03-16-2003, 02:47 PM	#97
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Hmm I guess we didn't want to discuss moving up to get S Bo Harry. I don't like Nixon much because of his very low Zone abilities. And we would have to switch Davidson's position. So I would lean towards Wellman if we were going to go with a defensive pick here. __________________ .

03-16-2003, 02:48 PM	#98
Doug5984 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Louisiana	I like SLB Vincent Wellman the best for this pick...He just seems to be the best player available...

03-16-2003, 02:53 PM	#100
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Sorry Quik that was my bad. I made several references to him in the thread, but I just kept referring to him as the top safety. It's all good though. We'll be ok without him. __________________ .

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