02-06-2007, 08:54 AM | #51 | ||
Dearly Missed
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Show me one that doesn't and I'll send him the bag of diarrhea free of charge!
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NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08 |
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02-06-2007, 08:55 AM | #52 |
The boy who cried Trout
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Location: TX
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02-06-2007, 08:57 AM | #53 |
Coordinator
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It only takes one. As long as it is not Randy Mueller.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
02-06-2007, 08:59 AM | #54 |
Dearly Missed
(9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003
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Did I ever say it had to be my own?
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NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08 |
02-06-2007, 09:07 AM | #55 | ||
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
Location: williamsburg, va
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Quote:
But wait.. what would be the actual cost of Moss to a new team? I imagine much of his money was in bonus? I disagree with what seems to be the standard thought on Moss. I think, depending on his cap number, that there are several teams that he could be a very valuable addition to.
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02-06-2007, 09:19 AM | #56 | |
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Quote:
Valuable addition to on paper, yes. But if the team doesn't perform to his standards, he basically takes himself out of the game becoming no more useful than a 7 year old out there.
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NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08 |
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02-06-2007, 09:20 AM | #57 | ||
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
Location: williamsburg, va
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Quote:
This is what everyone loves to say, and I know it's trendy to dog moss, but I just don't see it personally. He has had some issues, but let's face it, since culpepper left the vikings he hasn't been on a good team.
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02-06-2007, 09:23 AM | #58 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
there are plenty of guys on bad teams that try
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02-06-2007, 09:27 AM | #59 | |
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Yes, some of his play can be attributable to a poor QB, but to me, that is not an excuse. IMHO, to be considered a great WR, you should be able to perform no matter who is throwing to you. Culpepper isn't that great of a QB, and Moss does do well when he wants to play. Its just the risk factor of giving up alot for him and then he takes himself out of the game? Thats just ridiculous. You are paid to play the game 100%, there really isn't a "Play if you feel like it" clause in the contract. That is my major issue with Moss. He has the talent, don't get me wrong, I just think that because he has no heart, it lowers his quality as a receiver. Being near this area, Art Monk was a great receiver. Always put up consistent numbers no matter who the QB was. I'm not saying Randy Moss=Art Monk, but if Randy Moss wants to be considered one of the all time greats and be paid like one of them, he sets the bar high on himself and should play like that regardless of his teams status or QB.
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02-06-2007, 09:34 AM | #60 | ||
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
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Quote:
Monk never had terrible QB's (ok, maybe Shroeder). Show me another stud WR who put up stud numbers with guys the likes of Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter - I dare you.
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02-06-2007, 09:36 AM | #61 | |
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Stud numbers and just being able to play somewhat at a decent level because you are a great receiver are two different things. No receiver puts up 9 billion TD's a year. But look at the dramatic shift in his stats. Even with Culpepper, in the later years, when he decided he didn't want to play, his stats started to suffer.
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02-06-2007, 09:37 AM | #62 |
Head Coach
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Is this an offseason thread too? Steelers C Jeff Hartings retired.
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02-06-2007, 09:40 AM | #63 |
College Starter
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Moss would certainly be capable of being at least a league average receiver if he decided he was going to actually try hard. To a small degree he'd make his really bad quarterback look slightly better because he'd be catching some badly thrown balls. But he decided to just lollygag around and now he's not a good receiver at all. He certainly has a higher level of performance than what he is at now, regardless of how good his QB is.
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02-06-2007, 09:44 AM | #64 | |
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
Location: williamsburg, va
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I grew up with Monk and loved him and Clark (to this day Gary Clark is my favorite player of all time), but I think you're romanticizing him a bit. Look at these comparisons, Moss's first season with Oakland where they were terrible, would have been within the top 5 of Monk's career. If Moss plays 16 games ini 2004, it's quite possible he has 1 season without 1000 yards in his whole career. Sorry, this hating on Moss is just not justified when you actually look at the numbers. The only truely bad year he's had was 2006 when, come on, the offense was TERRIBLE on every level.
Code:
Code:
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02-06-2007, 09:45 AM | #65 |
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I don't think there's any question that Moss has talent but lacks motivation. The real question IMO is does anyone think they can motivate him to live up to his talent and then can they actually succeed. I would think based on the egos in the NFL, there's quite a few coaches out there that think they can get Moss to be productive again. I think the liklihood of them being successful is much more up in the air.
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02-06-2007, 09:45 AM | #66 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
Chris Chambers 05 Dolphins? The great trigger man Gus Ferrote at the controls?
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02-06-2007, 09:47 AM | #67 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
I'd add the guy in your screen name as a second. Nobody can successfully argue that the Patriots strategy hasn't worked to this point. I do believe that if they have Branch that they would have won the title this year, but it's hard to argue with a 4 point loss on the road in the AFC title game. As of now, the Patriots are doing a terrific job of finding fits for their system and it really can't be argued. |
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02-06-2007, 09:47 AM | #68 | |
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
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I will also point out that two of Moss's best seasons, 2001 and 2002, The Vikings were 5-11 and 6-10 respectively.
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02-06-2007, 09:48 AM | #69 | ||
lolzcat
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Quote:
I think a lot more highly of Frerrote than most people, so this logic might not work with me.
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02-06-2007, 09:51 AM | #70 | |
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Quote:
well there are plenty of examples of productive receivers with 70ish rating quarterbacks.
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02-06-2007, 09:54 AM | #71 | |
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I was just throwing Monk out there for comparison. But the way Moss has shown inconsistency based on his feelings of "I'll play when I feel like it", is just an awful attitude. My point is that Moss doesn't have any heart, or at least shows very little. Would you want a superstar Caliber player on your team who won't play 100% or would you rather have just a decent receiver who will do what it takes to get the job done? That is what Moss lacks. He has the talent and potential, I understand that, but without any heart, it pretty much nullifies that. A team takes a huge risk in signing him, will he play or will he not? I think of someone of his potential and caliber and price, that shouldn't be a question a GM/Coach/teammate has to even think twice about. That is the problem with Moss.
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02-06-2007, 09:55 AM | #72 | ||
lolzcat
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Quote:
What I'm saying is this "Moss doesn't try" is mostly trumped up by the media. The stats just don't back up this theory at all. I would love to have Moss on most teams I root for, just that my two key teams right now need a lot more things before WR (Redskins and Colts).
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Last edited by wade moore : 02-06-2007 at 09:56 AM. |
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02-06-2007, 10:00 AM | #73 | |
The boy who cried Trout
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Quote:
The disconnect is reality. A GM of a contending team, if they had the cap space, would jump at the chance to get Moss. I would argue that all of them would. |
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02-06-2007, 10:11 AM | #74 |
Dearly Missed
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I guess we could go on and on in circles, and everyone is entitled to their opinions.
I think the bottom line is that none of us will be making the decision in regards to Moss I miss football already.
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02-06-2007, 10:13 AM | #75 | ||
lolzcat
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Quote:
I think bottom line is, that as sachmo says, most NFL teams would love to have Moss. Now, the price is obviously part of the sticking point, but I still think that there are only a handful of guys that NFL teams would want over Moss.
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02-06-2007, 10:47 AM | #76 |
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02-06-2007, 01:05 PM | #77 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
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Quote:
I agree there is a chance he's gone, but I will still be pissed. As far as the tag, they're not afraid to use it since they franchised Vinatieri twice (three times?) in a row. I'm not so sure Samuel's play would suffer if he was tagged. This is because he would be up for FA again the next season, and if he sucked then his potential dollars would go way down. I've seen other tagged players play well. I think you could see a franchise tag and another year of in-season re-negotiation before he either resigns or is gone. |
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02-06-2007, 01:09 PM | #78 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
I consider Vinatieri a different case. I just get the sense with Samuel you are going down the disgruntled/holdout path with a tag. Him leaving for some reason doesn't upset or concern me that much. Good player but not a Champ Bailey type talent. Ok, who is but that's the dollars you may see.
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02-06-2007, 01:13 PM | #79 |
College Starter
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Ah, the dreaded holdout. That would throw a monkey wrench into things. This usually ends up with the Patriots getting a 1st rounder in exchange. That would be ok though.
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02-06-2007, 02:03 PM | #80 |
Head Coach
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With the recent increase in cap money through the new CBA, I think that you are going to see a lot of players curious to test the waters. I am sure that Samuel and his agent are looking at how many teams out there have stupid money that they may choose to throw at him.
All it takes is one Dan Snyder out there to make it worth someone's while to test the market. |
02-06-2007, 04:07 PM | #81 |
General Manager
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Location: New Mexico
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I'd be sad if Samuel left. I think he's become one of the best cbs in the league. I'd rather have him than Rodney Harrison.
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02-06-2007, 04:46 PM | #82 |
College Starter
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Location: Berkeley
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After the AFC championship, I really hope New England lets him go!
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02-06-2007, 04:49 PM | #83 |
Coordinator
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02-06-2007, 08:41 PM | #84 |
Hall Of Famer
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Are people expecting Cleveland and Atlanta to switch first round picks(and maybe more), and ATL to send Schaub to cleveland? Cause he's certainly got quite a few votes as Cleve's starter in that new "where is the qb headed thread" game.
Last edited by stevew : 02-07-2007 at 05:42 AM. |
02-06-2007, 08:50 PM | #85 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
I really don't see Schaub going anywhere this off-season with a new coach unsure of what exactly he has in Vick. Also, a team would be stupid to give up the first or second round Atlanta wants with that pick. |
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02-06-2007, 09:37 PM | #86 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Dec 2003
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If the point of a football team is to produce nice statistics
then I might consider Moss if the point is to win - I would pass no matter what point in his career you want to give him to me. football statistics are easily the least important (because they are the most heavily influenced my other factors and the small amount of games makes for such a small sample size) of all sports statistics. Nothing accomplished in football is accomplished by an individual. I let you pick all the skill position players from any team in the NFL and you let me pick your OL - you will be the worst offense in the league. Last edited by AgustusM : 02-06-2007 at 09:38 PM. |
02-06-2007, 09:42 PM | #87 |
General Manager
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I can see some team going nuts and sending Atl a 2nd rounder for Schaub. Heck, I could see the Bears doing that.
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02-06-2007, 10:27 PM | #88 | |
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Quote:
I'd so rather see a Cleveland do so. High 2nd = good .
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02-12-2007, 07:18 AM | #89 | |
Hall Of Famer
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From some other board...might be a PFT snippet though....
Quote:
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02-12-2007, 07:51 AM | #90 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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So now they decide to give up on him?
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
02-12-2007, 08:18 AM | #91 |
Head Coach
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02-12-2007, 08:22 AM | #92 |
Head Coach
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dola--
Though, for the life of me, I wonder if anyone can really know if David Carr sucks or not. I have some idea that if you put Tom Brady or Sage Rosenfels on that offense, the results would look about the same as with David Carr. At some point, you need more than 1 good WR on an offense in order to see how good a quarterback is. |
02-12-2007, 08:32 AM | #93 |
The boy who cried Trout
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02-12-2007, 10:35 AM | #94 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TX
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the Texans missed thier opportunity to make me a fan when the passed on VY
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02-12-2007, 11:02 AM | #95 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dayton, OH
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I still scratch my head and wonder why the Texans didn't take either Young or Bush. Once in a decade situations on both players, and they said forget it to both and went with Mario Williams... who, even if he pans out is still not going to draw fans or interest. Good move.
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02-12-2007, 11:16 AM | #96 | |
College Starter
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Quote:
It's called overthinking. Similar to when a man, going to the laundromat, finds a check for $500 lying on the ground and $500 in cash. While standing there and thinking about which one to take, he decides to pick up the quarter on the ground because it gives him the easiest way to help pay for the cost of his laundry. Last edited by RedKingGold : 02-12-2007 at 11:17 AM. |
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02-12-2007, 11:21 AM | #97 | |
Pro Rookie
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Plus it's nice and shiny. |
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02-12-2007, 11:58 AM | #98 | |
High School JV
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Travis AFB, CA
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Quote:
To say Freeney only has `1 move, the upward swim` is pure stupidity . I'm not even a Colts/D.F. fan but I know NFL football. Watch some of the Colts game next year or perhaps do a YouTube of D.F. Maybe you'll see that he has one of the sickest spin move in the game today... Of course the draws that MJD and the Jaguars, Tatum Bell and the Broncos ran on him were effective... He was playing pass rush... not run defense.... I'm 99% sure that Tony Dungy or the Defensive Line's coach wanted him to loop and play the QB.... -Sony Last edited by sony : 02-12-2007 at 12:00 PM. |
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02-12-2007, 12:06 PM | #99 | |
College Starter
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Quote:
For future reference; stating an argument then discrediting in the next paragraph is usually not the best way to prove the validity of that argument. |
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02-12-2007, 12:08 PM | #100 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
Dola Last I checked, Madden is nothing like how the NFL really is and the stature of a player. D00dz, dat guys got a killerz spin move! (Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, A, B, Select, Start) |
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