Neighbor Rant

[lungs]

I've had one of my dogs shot. One thing you don't do is mess with people's deer hunting around here. On opening morning of deer hunting one year, my two dogs tore a hole through the screen of their kennel and decided to go chase deer (which they were notorious around the neighborhood for doing and why they were locked up for deer hunting).

No, I didn't like getting my dog shot. But I understood why it happened.

One of my employees once had two wolf/dog hybrids. He built a fence for them at his house, but wolves are REALLY hard to keep fenced in. They attacked one of my cows (which another employee caught on video). I told my employee that the next time I see the wolves on the farm I will shoot them. A neighbor also complained that the wolves were going after one of his daughter's 4H project goats. I told him to shoot them if they did it again. And he did.

[Desnudo]

Can you shoot people trespassing on your land?

Just brainstorming here

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Can you shoot people trespassing on your land?

Just brainstorming here

We do have the Castle Doctrine in Wisconsin, so yes.

Should we be forced to sit there and do nothing while our livestock are being killed?

[Desnudo]

Actually was referring to the Indiana situation where his neighbor certainly sounds like a prime candidate.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Actually was referring to the Indiana situation where his neighbor certainly sounds like a prime candidate.

Ahh sorry, came right after my post so I misunderstood.

In general I think there is a cultural divide between urban and rural on the topic of dogs. The urban thought is that dogs need to be under control 100% of the time, which I agree is necessary in urban areas.

Here in the sticks, dogs are generally allowed more freedom but they are responsible for the mischief they get into. Certain types of dogs work better in the country too when allowed to roam free. Cattle dogs instinctively don't stray too far from the herd or flock once trained. They can get themselves into trouble when young though (which my dogs were wanting to herd deer instead of my cattle).

Certain types do need to be restrained, like hunting dogs. They'll go nuts if they can.

[molson]

Originally Posted by lungs

We do have the Castle Doctrine in Wisconsin, so yes.

That just means that you have no duty to retreat on your own property. Your use of force (against people) would still be evaluated for reasonableness (how much force did you use v. what was the threat to your safety) by the prosecutor and/or jury in a criminal case or civil lawsuit. Edit: Juries and prosecutors are going to be pretty forgiving if you assume the worst from an intruder in your house of course, but I wouldn't shoot a guy wandering around your acres of land, for example.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by molson

That just means that you have no duty to retreat on your own property. Your use of force (against people) would still be evaluated for reasonableness (how much force did you use v. what was the threat to your safety) by the prosecutor and/or jury in a criminal case or civil lawsuit.

Correct. But there are instances where you could reasonably shoot somebody trespassing on your land. You'll still likely be in a heap of trouble if the person turns out to be unarmed.

Locally past weekend, a mentally ill man drove out into the middle of nowhere and tore all his clothes off, went into the woods, swam across a river, and ended up on somebody's property where he proceeded to kill three elderly people. If he'd encountered a person more equipped to defend themselves, he'd have been a case where deadly force would've been found justified.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by lungs

Locally past weekend, a mentally ill man drove out into the middle of nowhere and tore all his clothes off, went into the woods, swam across a river, and ended up on somebody's property where he proceeded to kill three elderly people.

da FUCK!?!?!?

WHAT KIND OF AMERICAD DO YOU PEOPLE LIVE IN!?!?!!?

[molson]

Originally Posted by lungs

Correct. But there are instances where you could reasonably shoot somebody trespassing on your land. You'll still likely be in a heap of trouble if the person turns out to be unarmed.

Locally past weekend, a mentally ill man drove out into the middle of nowhere and tore all his clothes off, went into the woods, swam across a river, and ended up on somebody's property where he proceeded to kill three elderly people. If he'd encountered a person more equipped to defend themselves, he'd have been a case where deadly force would've been found justified.

Well, that and the wolf story definitely does provide some insight as to why people in more rural places are going to be a lot more attached to their weapons. If I lived in a rural area I would definitely be well-armed.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

da FUCK!?!?!?

WHAT KIND OF AMERICAD DO YOU PEOPLE LIVE IN!?!?!!?

It's a tragic situation really. The guy who did this had friends and/or family alert authorities that this dude was having an episode so he was being pursued. Unfortunately the guy got to some people before he could be caught.

It was just bad all around for everybody involved. The area he did this is also the area where a guy and his brother last fall burned up his wife and kids to collect an insurance premium.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That triple murder story was interesting enough for me to Google.

I assume that this is the same one (surely there weren't two triple homicides with victims all over 65)
Wisconsin: Man held for questioning in triple homicide in Lafayette County - TwinCities.com

[lungs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That triple murder story was interesting enough for me to Google.

I assume that this is the same one (surely there weren't two triple homicides with victims all over 65)
Wisconsin: Man held for questioning in triple homicide in Lafayette County - TwinCities.com

Correct.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by lungs

One of my employees once had two wolf/dog hybrids. He built a fence for them at his house, but wolves are REALLY hard to keep fenced in. They attacked one of my cows (which another employee caught on video). I told my employee that the next time I see the wolves on the farm I will shoot them. A neighbor also complained that the wolves were going after one of his daughter's 4H project goats. I told him to shoot them if they did it again. And he did.

I can understand this. An animal is showing aggressive behavior and it is justified in killing it. Shooting a dog for being on your property or going through your trash, seems barbaric to me.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I can understand this. An animal is showing aggressive behavior and it is justified in killing it. Shooting a dog for being on your property or going through your trash, seems barbaric to me.

I'll agree with this. Reasonable steps should be taken before lethal force is taken and what the dog is doing should be taken into consideration. Even with my wolf examples, I gave my employee numerous warnings that if he didn't corral his dogs, they'd end up dead. Even a visit from a sheriff's deputy.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I can understand this. An animal is showing aggressive behavior and it is justified in killing it. Shooting a dog for being on your property or going through your trash, seems barbaric to me.

On a personal level, I tend to agree with you. The only dogs I've ever shot were ones that bit my kids or had been hit by cars and needed to be put down. I've shot in the direction of bunch of dogs to scare them off -- but generally a loud "go home" is sufficient. Different people have different thresholds, and my experience has been that the bigger the dog, the lower the threshold.

(For the record, we have a Boston Terrier, a mutt of roughly the same size, a miniature dachshund, and a black lab -- they spend most of their time in the house because they're lazy little fucks and rarely even go to the end of the driveway when they do go outside.)

That said, there's something about rural Indiana and people (usually who have recently moved down from Indianapolis) deciding it would be an awesome idea to get Rottweilers and pit bulls and similar aggressive breeds and letting them run. We're rural enough that we don't have animal control in our county, the volunteer shelter is small and always full of cats, and if you call the sheriff with a dog complaint, they'll advise you to shoot it yourself because it'll be a couple of days before they can come out and shoot it for you.

Rural is just different. I have a co-worker who just spent $2k on vet expenses for her dog with hip dysplasia (or something). I don't understand that at all. I also tend to believe that it's more barbaric to chain, pen, or crate a dog for most of its days than to let it run, teach it to behave, and accept the risk that it's going to get hit or shot.

Of course, we also plow through about 10 farm cats a year between traps, coyotes, raccoons, opossums, and just cats being rowdy, so I probably think differently about "pets" than most urban folks. Cats exist to catch field mice, so I view them more like employees, and only think about them when I'm spreading food for them in the barn or being forced to notice that the population is waning because I'm finding mouse signs in the garage. I know many of the farmers out here think about their dogs the same way. The dogs exist to protect the cows and chickens, nothing more.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Drake

On a personal level, I tend to agree with you. The only dogs I've ever shot were ones that bit my kids or had been hit by cars and needed to be put down. I've shot in the direction of bunch of dogs to scare them off -- but generally a loud "go home" is sufficient. Different people have different thresholds, and my experience has been that the bigger the dog, the lower the threshold.

(For the record, we have a Boston Terrier, a mutt of roughly the same size, a miniature dachshund, and a black lab -- they spend most of their time in the house because they're lazy little fucks and rarely even go to the end of the driveway when they do go outside.)

That said, there's something about rural Indiana and people (usually who have recently moved down from Indianapolis) deciding it would be an awesome idea to get Rottweilers and pit bulls and similar aggressive breeds and letting them run. We're rural enough that we don't have animal control in our county, the volunteer shelter is small and always full of cats, and if you call the sheriff with a dog complaint, they'll advise you to shoot it yourself because it'll be a couple of days before they can come out and shoot it for you.

Rural is just different. I have a co-worker who just spent $2k on vet expenses for her dog with hip dysplasia (or something). I don't understand that at all. I also tend to believe that it's more barbaric to chain, pen, or crate a dog for most of its days than to let it run, teach it to behave, and accept the risk that it's going to get hit or shot.

Of course, we also plow through about 10 farm cats a year between traps, coyotes, raccoons, opossums, and just cats being rowdy, so I probably think differently about "pets" than most urban folks. Cats exist to catch field mice, so I view them more like employees, and only think about them when I'm spreading food for them in the barn or being forced to notice that the population is waning because I'm finding mouse signs in the garage. I know many of the farmers out here think about their dogs the same way. The dogs exist to protect the cows and chickens, nothing more.

Definitely a difference between rural and urban. I could never imagine harming a Dog unless absolutely necessary (attacking my Dogs as I was walking them or attacking myself or another person)

Then again, in the Phoenix suburbs pretty much all yards are fenced and people in most neighborhoods don't let their Dogs roam free ever. I walk my boxer on a leash and his 'crate' is our home gym for the 3-4 hours a week I have to go into the office, so he basically has a big room to chill in. He also spends lots of time in the yard when it is cool.

Our Min-Pins run around in the backyard, which is plenty big since we have a corner lot and when they have to be kenneled for those few hours they just sleep. Apart from that they all have the run of the house and are well behaved.

I don't think my mindset would change in the rural setting. who knows and I would always try and address a nuisance Dog with the owner before just shooting it. Hell bottom line is, I love dogs so much that even if I had to shoot an aggressive Dog it would bother me a lot for quite some time.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I love dogs so much that even if I had to shoot an aggressive Dog it would bother me a lot for quite some time.

Heck, you love dogs so much you capitalize the word, and if that's unintentional then you REALLY love dogs.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Heck, you love dogs so much you capitalize the word, and if that's unintentional then you REALLY love dogs.

I do really love DOGS

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I think a good way to handle the neighbor that's shooting dogs & tossing them to rot on your property is to talk to him. Don't accuse him, but act like it's the two of you against whoever is doing this. "Have you noticed any dumping on your property? I found someone is dumping dead animals on mine. If you see something, let me know. I'm alerting the authorities about this because it is a problem. I'll keep an eye out for you too. We can't let whoever is doing this get away with it." I guarantee he'll say all the right things and stop throwing dead dogs on your property.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I think a good way to handle the neighbor that's shooting dogs & tossing them to rot on your property is to talk to him. Don't accuse him, but act like it's the two of you against whoever is doing this. "Have you noticed any dumping on your property? I found someone is dumping dead animals on mine. If you see something, let me know. I'm alerting the authorities about this because it is a problem. I'll keep an eye out for you too. We can't let whoever is doing this get away with it." I guarantee he'll say all the right things and stop throwing dead dogs on your property.

I've actually heard a lot worse ideas than this. The reaction you predict does seem like the most likely one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Drake

... and if you call the sheriff with a dog complaint, they'll advise you to shoot it yourself because it'll be a couple of days before they can come out and shoot it for you.

Just because I suspect someone without rural experience will find this hard to believe, I can totally vouch for this exact response. I'd say that's the response you'd get in roughly half the counties in Georgia.

And, before anybody even asks, the reason the call goes to the sheriff's department is because in the absence of an animal control office that's who typically ends up responsible for this sort of thing, whether it's a dangerous animal or one that's simply being a nuisance. The latter basically becomes something akin to a noise complaint.

[Dr. Sak]

Fast forward 5 months...they have to leave the house cause they quit paying their bills...and then this happened...

Police: Drunk driver in Murrysville crash had 2 kids in car | TribLIVE

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Fast forward 5 months...they have to leave the house cause they quit paying their bills...and then this happened...

Police: Drunk driver in Murrysville crash had 2 kids in car | TribLIVE

So that's your guy? Sounds like a winner.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Charming

[molson]

I always wonder who these people are that do stuff like this, but I bet there's often many clues left behind in the neighborhoods, like there was here.

[BYU 14]

What a winner....At least he will no longer be a thorn in your side.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So that's your guy? Sounds like a winner.

Yep the guy in the article was my former neighbor that I had issues with. I feel horrible for the kids.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Fast forward 5 months...they have to leave the house cause they quit paying their bills...and then this happened...

Police: Drunk driver in Murrysville crash had 2 kids in car | TribLIVE

Oh, the irony....

“I could immediately see that this man was extremely intoxicated,” Malone wrote in the complaint, adding that his speed was slurred and he was unsteady on his feet.