Eli Manning doesn't want to go to San Diego

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Manning does not need the money in the way that a lot of top draftees do. He comes from a family of millionaires. In that sense, he has a bit more leverage than a guy whose single mother is on public assistance.

This may yet be another reason for some jealousy over it.

[Hurst2112]

It would be funnier if Archie told the press that the Patriots would be a better team for his son rather than the Giants or Chargers.

Maybe he wants Eli to be the next bachelor, or, he realizes that after the bachelor...his boy will be guarenteed a roster spot without lifting a finger.

What? You guys don't watch the bachelor? Er, me neither. I was just asking.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Correct. It was very largely reported that Peyton decided to go back because Parcells would not guarantee him the Jets would take him #1 overall.

I think ageofquarrel was insinuating the opposite - that Peyton went back to school to avoid playing for the Jets.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I think ageofquarrel was insinuating the opposite - that Peyton went back to school to avoid playing for the Jets.

You're probably right, but there was no word that was the case. It appeared to be the opposite. I think Manning was happy enough in school that he would only come out for the perfect situation. I guess playing in New York for Bill Parcells, and being the #1 overall pick was it.

Word was that Manning just didn't want to come out, and have the Jets trade the pick to (fill in the blank) and end up somewhere he hadn't expected (or didn't want) to play.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

What nobody, including Archie Manning has taken into account here is the NY media. If he lands here and isn't the second coming of Phil Simms instantly, he'll get ripped, ripped, ripped. (And they really didn't like him when he was playing)

NY is a rough town to play in...

[ageofquarrel]

yeah i wasnt sure if that is why Peyton finished his sr year. My friend derek is a jets fan and he hates Peyton and that is reason he gives for it.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by ageofquarrel

yeah i wasnt sure if that is why Peyton finished his sr year. My friend derek is a jets fan and he hates Peyton and that is reason he gives for it.

I would have thought he hated him for not stepping up in the playoffs. Though as a Jets fan, he would love that every year.

[wishbone]

Maybe Eli has some unpaid parking tickets in San Diego and that's why he doesn't want to go there.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Because it's not "asking" where to go, it's leveraging in a draft system. It's saying "I'm going to be a problem for you if you draft me." So San Diego suddenly has lost some leverage in its trade negotiations for the #1 pick, and it has to reassess its draft strategy for what may be a franchise-altering pick.

Edit: typo

Nicely said.

Maybe all the 1st rounders will start saying where they will, will not want to play and we'll do away with the draft. A guy will step up and say the team he wants to play for, and BOOM! it's a done deal.

The next time you play FOF and you're dying for that stud QB who will really make your team much better, you click on him to draft him and you get something like, "I prefer not to play for your team", so he holds out... how would that make you feel?


Todd

[Franklinnoble]

Personally, I have always resented John Elway for doing this to the Colts... and I think his actions had at least some small part in the team re-locating.

Manning's actions may eventually do the same thing to the Chargers...

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Nicely said.

Maybe all the 1st rounders will start saying where they will, will not want to play and we'll do away with the draft. A guy will step up and say the team he wants to play for, and BOOM! it's a done deal.

The next time you play FOF and you're dying for that stud QB who will really make your team much better, you click on him to draft him and you get something like, "I prefer not to play for your team", so he holds out... how would that make you feel?


Todd

That's San Diego's fault. They've been so wishy washy publicly, trying to either maxmize a trade or fool people. Obviously they are not overwhelmed by Manning and just that fact diminishes trade value of #1 anyway.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The next time you play FOF and you're dying for that stud QB who will really make your team much better, you click on him to draft him and you get something like, "I prefer not to play for your team", so he holds out... how would that make you feel?

I would love the level of realism.

Actually I would yell and scream and get infuriated, but still applaud the developer for coming up with a text sim that could get me so emotionally involved.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I would love the level of realism.

Actually I would yell and scream and get infuriated, but still applaud the developer for coming up with a text sim that could get me so emotionally involved.

It would be great. And if you did draft him, he'd hold out and only accept the biggest money salary. And he'd have a loyalty of "0", and get easily disgruntled.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

It would be great. And if you did draft him, he'd hold out and only accept the biggest money salary. And he'd have a loyalty of "0", and get easily disgruntled.

And he'd get you to the Solecismic bowl 4 times, but you'd get blown out in all of them, until you finally draft that stud RB...

[Easy Mac]

Shouldn't the thread title read Archie Manning doesn't want his son in San Diego. I think its kind of presumptuous to say anything else.

[John Galt]

I don't know what Eli has done wrong.

His father said things to the Chargers about wanting him to play elsewhere (Eli has said nothing).
The Chargers decided to leak the story (so any lost leverage is their own fault).
Eli and Archie have never said that Eli will hold out if he is drafted by the Chargers.

What is wrong with expressing a preference? I know I would if I was in Eli's position. It doesn't mean I wouldn't honor the contract, just that I would prefer to play for another team. And Eli hasn't even done that.

[rkmsuf]

If the Chargers had just thrown in the Craftmatic Adjustable for Archie he'd be signed.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I don't know what Eli has done wrong.

His father said things to the Chargers about wanting him to play elsewhere (Eli has said nothing).
The Chargers decided to leak the story (so any lost leverage is their own fault).
Eli and Archie have never said that Eli will hold out if he is drafted by the Chargers.

What is wrong with expressing a preference? I know I would if I was in Eli's position. It doesn't mean I wouldn't honor the contract, just that I would prefer to play for another team. And Eli hasn't even done that.

Its called the "Rothlesberger is God" syndrome.

[Noble_Platypus]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Here we go with another draftee refusing to go where he is told. Sounds like another thread we have here.


Has there been anybody like this in the past that didn't go to a team and that team won a super bowl before the player and his new team did? Can't think of any, but it would be just desserts if it happened in this case.

Oh yeah, we're talking about the Chargers and a Manning. Nevermind.

I find statement like this ignorant. Lets pile on Peyton for not winning a SB yet. Its his fault alone that the D sucks and that NE was allowed to piggyback on his receivers the whole game. I guess since the SB is the only measuring stick that means anything then we can all agree that Mcnair is a loser because he couldnt win one, and Mcnabb must be a complete fucking loser to have lost all of those chances to go to the SB, and in a row no less. Doug williams is a much better QB than Marino and Jim Kelly too,huh?

[miami_fan]

I have a feeling that if this player's last name was not Manning, there would be fewer people coming to his and/or his father's defense.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I have a feeling that if this player's last name was not Manning, there would be fewer people looking to crucify to him and/or his father.

.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Noble_Platypus

I find statement like this ignorant. Lets pile on Peyton for not winning a SB yet. Its his fault alone that the D sucks and that NE was allowed to piggyback on his receivers the whole game. I guess since the SB is the only measuring stick that means anything then we can all agree that Mcnair is a loser because he couldnt win one, and Mcnabb must be a complete fucking loser to have lost all of those chances to go to the SB, and in a row no less. Doug williams is a much better QB than Marino and Jim Kelly too,huh?

sensitive

[Noble_Platypus]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

sensitive

Not sensitive, just sick and tired of the bullshit logic that people use to back up their take. It cant work both ways. You cant say that 1 QB is better than another based solely on a SB win unless you also support that guys like Marino, Kelly, Fouts, etc were losers or bad QBs

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Noble_Platypus

Not sensitive, just sick and tired of the bullshit logic that people use to back up their take. It cant work both ways. You cant say that 1 QB is better than another based solely on a SB win unless you also support that guys like Marino, Kelly, Fouts, etc were losers or bad QBs

The point is that the game is played to win SBs. Sans that a QB has a signinficant chink in the armor.

You can argue pure talent all you want. Multiple SB wins trump any stats or ability arguement.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

You can argue pure talent all you want. Multiple SB wins trump any stats or ability arguement.

Right, because those games are decided by the QBs going one-on-one for 60 minutes. Oh wait, they're not? Perhaps other factors could be considered in the argument.

[Bosco]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

The point is that the game is played to win SBs. Sans that a QB has a signinficant chink in the armor.

You can argue pure talent all you want. Multiple SB wins trump any stats or ability arguement.

That's competely ridiculous. Are you honestly going to tell me Tom Brady is better than Dan Marino? Its a team game and teams win Super Bowls, not QBs.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Right, because those games are decided by the QBs going one-on-one for 60 minutes. Oh wait, they're not? Perhaps other factors could be considered in the argument.

The point is to win the sb. Yes it's a team sport more than any other but look at Marino for example. It's an age old arguement but in the grand scheme what good was it to have him after the first couple years? He was talented but for all that talent failed in the ultimate. Blame it on whatever you want but the reason you get the best qb is to win the whole thing...

It's a no win arguement though. Fans will line up on the side that fits their rooting interest.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Bosco

That's competely ridiculous. Are you honestly going to tell me Tom Brady is better than Dan Marino? Its a team game and teams win Super Bowls, not QBs.

Brady better than Danny? Blasphemy!

Now about those comparisons to Joe Montana.....J/K

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

That's San Diego's fault. They've been so wishy washy publicly, trying to either maxmize a trade or fool people. Obviously they are not overwhelmed by Manning and just that fact diminishes trade value of #1 anyway.

That's true, or else he would have been signed by now. Maybe it's not as bad as it sounds, but if I was a Chargers fan, I would really be ticked.

How about Winslow, Jr.'s dad telling agents if they want to represent him, pay $2500 and make a presentation. Now that's hilarious. Guess who won, although the NFL shot down the $2500 part, yep good ole Orlando Pace's agent, the Postins.


Todd

[rkmsuf]

In the Pats system Brady is way better than Marino could ever be. He'd be such a prick that he'd never stand for dumping the ball and making the smart plays. You call the WR screen and he'd change it. His bravado would be his undoing.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

That's true, or else he would have been signed by now. Maybe it's not as bad as it sounds, but if I was a Chargers fan, I would really be ticked.

How about Winslow, Jr.'s dad telling agents if they want to represent him, pay $2500 and make a presentation. Now that's hilarious. Guess who won, although the NFL shot down the $2500 part, yep good ole Orlando Pace's agent, the Postins.


Todd

I would stay far away from that player.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

The point is to win the sb. Yes it's a team sport more than any other but look at Marino for example. It's an age old arguement but in the grand scheme what good was it to have him after the first couple years? He was talented but for all that talent failed in the ultimate. Blame it on whatever you want but the reason you get the best qb is to win the whole thing...

It's a no win arguement though. Fans will line up on the side that fits their rooting interest.

That last thought is certainly correct.

I certainly agree that the point is to win the whole thing. But to have it be the only factor in deciding a QBs worth has a whole bunch of great players below Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. I cannot live with that. Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, Kelly, were all better players than those two. To argue otherwise is ludicrous. They are only one piece of the puzzle.

Montana was a great QB, but in several of the years he won, his teams were so good he did not need to be. Anybody could have won with that 85 team, for example someone of Dilfer's caliber.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I would stay far away from that player.

Could you imagine if he's sitting there at #26, which I know he won't be, but oh would Martz's brain start frying.


Todd

[Noble_Platypus]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Right, because those games are decided by the QBs going one-on-one for 60 minutes. Oh wait, they're not? Perhaps other factors could be considered in the argument.

Thank you. You and Bosco seem to understand the team concept, unlike some. I know the bottom line is to win SBs, but a players talent or greatness cannot be truly judged on wins and losses in a team game.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I don't know what Eli has done wrong.

His father said things to the Chargers about wanting him to play elsewhere (Eli has said nothing).
The Chargers decided to leak the story (so any lost leverage is their own fault).
Eli and Archie have never said that Eli will hold out if he is drafted by the Chargers.

What is wrong with expressing a preference? I know I would if I was in Eli's position. It doesn't mean I wouldn't honor the contract, just that I would prefer to play for another team. And Eli hasn't even done that.

I agree that SD is at fault for losing leverage by leaking this story - in fact, I'm having a hard time understanding why they did that - but it now appears that Eli isn't just "expressing a preference," he's threatening to sit out the entire year if he is drafted by SD.

What possible reason could SD have for leaking that story in the first place? Was it more important to paint the Mannings in a bad light than it was to get the best possible deal for trading the #1 pick? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

What possible reason could SD have for leaking that story in the first place? Was it more important to paint the Mannings in a bad light than it was to get the best possible deal for trading the #1 pick? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

The only explanation that makes sense is that the Giants deal is done, and has been done for some time, and this "leak" is the way that San Diego is going to try and avoid being called The Team Burned So Bad By Ryan Leaf That They Were Too Chickenshit To Draft Either Michael Vick Or Eli Manning.

Hell, for all we know, the Mannings' public position may be part of the agreement to get their signing bonus from the Giants.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I have a feeling that if this player's last name was not Manning, there would be fewer people coming to his and/or his father's defense.

And your point would be ... ???

I agree with you, btw, but I don't find that to be particularly surprising or disturbing. They are, quite possibly, the "First Family of Football" in at least 2 and probably 3 states.

I'm 37 now, so I remember Archie running for his life on those God-awful Saints teams, I can't say I blame him one bit for trying to do whatever he can within the rules to prevent his son from suffering the same fate.

Peyton is, for me, one of the rarest people in pro football -- somebody that I actually give a damn about watching play. He's one of only two players in the league that will cause me to stop & watch (Mike Vick being the other). The big difference is that I watch Vick because, no matter what else he is or isn't, he's an incredible athlete that may do something amazing or downright unbelievable at any given moment. Manning, on the other hand, isn't the world's greatest athlete or even QB, but I actually care if he does well.

Eli has been fun to watch & had himself a nice career in the SEC. I'd certainly say I've got high hopes for his future, since I believe he will probably be at least as good as his brother.

So yes, given all that (and given that I'd be far from alone on those general takes), I'd say they'll attract more defenders/supporters than Joe Q. Quarterback from the University of Ottumwa.

[miami_fan]

Things have changed a bit. Now we know that Eli Manning does not want go to the Chargers as opposed to just Archie not wanting him to go. Eli is not just showing a preference. He is flat out refusing to sign a contract with the Chargers and will sit out the whole year. I can't see how anybody can defend this position. I understand the concern that Archie may have as a father but this is the way the draft works. Look San Diego may be in disarray right now but so is Arizona, so was Cincy, so were the Cowboys, the Pats, the Bears etc.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Things have changed a bit. Now we know that Eli Manning does not want go to the Chargers as opposed to just Archie not wanting him to go. Eli is not just showing a preference. He is flat out refusing to sign a contract with the Chargers and will sit out the whole year. I can't see how anybody can defend this position. I understand the concern that Archie may have as a father but this is the way the draft works. Look San Diego may be in disarray right now but so is Arizona, so was Cincy, so were the Cowboys, the Pats, the Bears etc.

AND teams can turn around quickly in the modern NFL (SD could be in the Super Bowl in two years, and the Giants could be 1-15).

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

The only explanation that makes sense is that the Giants deal is done, and has been done for some time, and this "leak" is the way that San Diego is going to try and avoid being called The Team Burned So Bad By Ryan Leaf That They Were Too Chickenshit To Draft Either Michael Vick Or Eli Manning.

Hell, for all we know, the Mannings' public position may be part of the agreement to get their signing bonus from the Giants.

Could be, but the reports right now suggest the teams are not even close to adeal. Bah...who knows what the truth is!

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Things have changed a bit. Now we know that Eli Manning does not want go to the Chargers as opposed to just Archie not wanting him to go. Eli is not just showing a preference. He is flat out refusing to sign a contract with the Chargers and will sit out the whole year. I can't see how anybody can defend this position. I understand the concern that Archie may have as a father but this is the way the draft works. Look San Diego may be in disarray right now but so is Arizona, so was Cincy, so were the Cowboys, the Pats, the Bears etc.

I read this. I hereby retract everything I said yesterday indicating I thought Eli was being anything less than a prima donna jackass. I now hope the Chargers call his bluff and draft him. Although, of all potential draftees in recent memory, he is probably the most likely to actually sit out a season.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I read this. I hereby retract everything I said yesterday indicating I thought Eli was being anything less than a prima donna jackass. I now hope the Chargers call his bluff and draft him. Although, of all potential draftees in recent memory, he is probably the most likely to actually sit out a season.

Yeah, when his bro just got a 40 million dollar signing bonus - I'm sure he can borrow a few bucks if needed.

Maybe he an Mike Williams can work out together....

[WSUCougar]

I think this is a massive game of chicken going on between the Chargers and the Giants, with the Raiders, Cardinals, and half the other NFL teams watching very closely. I think the Giants are playing it cool because of the leverage they've gained with the Manning camp wussing out. They want the Chargers to get desperate.

If I was going to place a wager on this, I'd bet there's no way in hell the Chargers draft Manning at #1 (unless it's to trade him), and that they trade out of the pick.

[Ksyrup]

I tihnk SD should just pass on him. I don't see him as the clear-cut #1 pick of this draft. SD obviously made him their first option, but if he doesn't want to sign with them, screw him. Choose someone else, or find a different trade partner. Who says the Giants are the only team they can trade with?

Either SD is stupid [insert joke here], or the media is portraying this as if SD is catering to Manning's wishes, when in fact, they are (or should be) looking at all of their options for the #1 pick, not just who wants Manning. When did Manning suddenly become the obvious #1 choice?

[Bosco]

Interesting article today from Mike Wilbon concerning the situation. He basically says there isn't anything wrong with what Archie is doing because the Chargers do in fact suck. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Apr22.html

[Ksyrup]

I really don't have a problem with what he's doing. He's playing by the rules. He has something that few draft picks have - leverage. And he's using it. If SD calls his bluff and chooses him, and he's serious about not playing for them and they're serious about taking the chance of wasting their pick on him in the hopes that he'll change his mind or they can trade him to team with enough rookie cap room to sign him, then he should sit out, and by the rules, he'll get another chance in the draft next year. He's giving up the opportunity to play now for a team he doesn't want to play for, in order to choose a better place to play.

One year of a rather short NFL career in exchange for a better choice of teams. Sounds reasonable to me.

[WSUCougar]

Then, for spite's sake, maybe San Diego gets the pick again and drafts him a second time.

[fantastic flying froggies]

LOL

Actually, I've seen it happen in FOF 2004...

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I really don't have a problem with what he's doing. He's playing by the rules. He has something that few draft picks have - leverage. And he's using it. If SD calls his bluff and chooses him, and he's serious about not playing for them and they're serious about taking the chance of wasting their pick on him in the hopes that he'll change his mind or they can trade him to team with enough rookie cap room to sign him, then he should sit out, and by the rules, he'll get another chance in the draft next year. He's giving up the opportunity to play now for a team he doesn't want to play for, in order to choose a better place to play.

One year of a rather short NFL career in exchange for a better choice of teams. Sounds reasonable to me.

I have to say, though, it really stinks. If this were anyone but a Manning, wouldn't most of the posters rooting for him to be blackballed from the NFL? I can't see this as anything but a powerplay by the Manning family because they know they have more power by virtue of their name than any other recruit.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Shouldn't the thread title read Archie Manning doesn't want his son in San Diego. I think its kind of presumptuous to say anything else.

When ESPN first reported it, that's what came out. The story got amended later, but the TV was on when I reading the boards that day, the story broke, so I posted it.