NFL 2016 Head Coaching and Offseason Stuff

[BillJasper]

Definitely didn't see the Pagano extension coming.

[corbes]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Let me give you an example iof my own history,


As a gift, a friend of mine bought two tickets to see a Browns game at Cleveland, when they hosted my Jags. So we drove to Cleveland and arrived a bit before the game started. We paid for parking, and walked to the game. Then we showed the tickets and purchased a program, and two of those hot things to keep your hands warm cause it was colder than we expected. After the game we walked around Cleveland and explored, walked a few blocks, ate at a sit down restraint, and shopped in three stores, buying things in two of them.

These financial exchanges happened:

1). Two Browns tickets purchased
2). Parking paid for off site
3). 1 Program and 2 warmers purchased at Browns Stadium
4). 2 meals at a sit down restaurant
5). Purchases at two local stores


I don;t know how much Cleveland gets in taxes, revenue, and such. But certainly, you can say that we contributed $$ to the city of Cleveland. I doubt that experience was atypical. There were other people in the restaurant who had been at the game as well.

Sure, that's good for the city, but it only happens 8x per year.

And while you probably wouldn't have spent your money in Cleveland otherwise, for residents of the city, item #1 is a redistribution of entertainment dollars rather than an influx of new cash.

Your experience is true and valid and real, but the question is whether that experience is worth an investment of hundreds upon hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Let me give you an example iof my own history,


As a gift, a friend of mine bought two tickets to see a Browns game at Cleveland, when they hosted my Jags. So we drove to Cleveland and arrived a bit before the game started. We paid for parking, and walked to the game. Then we showed the tickets and purchased a program, and two of those hot things to keep your hands warm cause it was colder than we expected. After the game we walked around Cleveland and explored, walked a few blocks, ate at a sit down restraint, and shopped in three stores, buying things in two of them.

These financial exchanges happened:

1). Two Browns tickets purchased
2). Parking paid for off site
3). 1 Program and 2 warmers purchased at Browns Stadium
4). 2 meals at a sit down restaurant
5). Purchases at two local stores


I don;t know how much Cleveland gets in taxes, revenue, and such. But certainly, you can say that we contributed $$ to the city of Cleveland. I doubt that experience was atypical. There were other people in the restaurant who had been at the game as well.

Even conceding all of this as normal (which you would admit is a bit of a stretch for every tailgater/restaurant eater there is a guy who will drive down for just the game) it isn't even the crux of the issue with St. Louis, San Diego, and Oakland. They all have a stadium where you could do everything you described at. These owners want the taxpayers to subsidize a new stadium because the current one isn't "good enough". That is what I take issue with.

EDIT: Though to be fair the Raider's grass/dirt baseball field would probably rank 32 out of 32 if I were ranking the stadiums.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Are pro sports teams economic winners for cities? | Marketplace.org

Originally Posted by Solecismic

It turns out, according to experts, that a new stadium has about the same economic impact as a small strip mall. Too many temporary jobs.

See, if only you didn't have me on ignore.

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I don;t know how much Cleveland gets in taxes, revenue, and such. But certainly, you can say that we contributed $$ to the city of Cleveland. I doubt that experience was atypical. There were other people in the restaurant who had been at the game as well.

As others have pointed out (and research has, too), it simply doesn't scale the way those lobbying for the stadia says it does.

[QuikSand]

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

I mean - it has to get better there, right? It almost has to.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

I mean - it has to get better there, right? It almost has to.

I'm not opposed to the hire. But Haslem has to give Depodesta time. He can't be continually pulling the plug after one or two seasons.

[Klinglerware]

They need to find a quarterback who can get on base more...

[albionmoonlight]

Dolphins showing interest in former Falcons head coach Mike Smith.

They could do better.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

I mean - it has to get better there, right? It almost has to.

I think this is one of those situations where if you say "well, it can't get worse", it absolutely will.

So, to help Browns fans out I'm going to say it's going to get even worse before it gets better. You're welcome.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Dolphins showing interest in former Falcons head coach Mike Smith.

They could do better.

If they aren't going to go for a home-run, they should just keep Campbell who went 5-7 as the interim guy. Not bad considering both coordinators were fired in-season.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Dolphins showing interest in former Falcons head coach Mike Smith.

Good luck with that.

[miked]

What is so bad about Mike Smith? He guided the Falcons to the playoffs in 3 of his first 4 seasons including a trip to the NFC title game. He had 2 bad games, but some of their signings were pretty bad. Steven Jackson, come on.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

I mean - it has to get better there, right? It almost has to.

It really sucks losing him. I was hoping whenever Alderson steps down Depodesta would be the replacement. The job he did rebuilding the Mets farm system is incredible and the guy is smart enough to learn the NFL quickly. If the Browns give him time and don't interfere he'll get them competitive.

[MrBug708]

Depodesta?

Lol

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Atocep

If the Browns give him time and don't interfere

[joke left as exercise for the reader]

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Depodesta?

Lol

Yes, the guy McCourt let Plaschke and Simers pressure him into firing.

[MrBug708]

If it weren't for Malone, worst GM ever

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

What is so bad about Mike Smith? He guided the Falcons to the playoffs in 3 of his first 4 seasons including a trip to the NFC title game. He had 2 bad games, but some of their signings were pretty bad. Steven Jackson, come on.

Comical clock management, the inability to lead starving dogs to fresh meat, frequently appeared simply overmatched for the job.

His ceiling is a low one.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by miked

What is so bad about Mike Smith?

I'm just not interested in a retread.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If it weren't for Malone, worst GM ever

Maybe he just got too much, too soon. He was widely credited with doing a lot of great things internally for the Mets, and it sounds like he'll be doing similar things with the Browns. Doesn't seem like he's making the #2 overall pick or whatever.

[Logan]

BTW what odds would you need to take to wager on both Pagano and Grigson making it more than 2 years into their new 4 year deals?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If it weren't for Malone, worst GM ever

He brought in Kent, Lowe, and JD Drew all of whom played well for the Dodgers.

He flipped Jason Frasor For Jayson Werth. Flipped Steve Colyer for Cody Ross.

The only move that could really be spun as bad that he made was the Lo Duca/Encarnacion trade which did bring in Brad Penny who pitched well from '05-'07.

He also drafted Carlos Santana, Kenley Jansen, David Price (who didn't sign), and didn't trade away the top prospects White had brought in during his time as GM.

If that's your worst GM ever then life is pretty damned good.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Logan

BTW what odds would you need to take to wager on both Pagano and Grigson making it more than 2 years into their new 4 year deals?

I think this depends largely on Andrew Luck's health.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Atocep

He brought in Kent, Lowe, and JD Drew all of whom played well for the Dodgers.

He flipped Jason Frasor For Jayson Werth. Flipped Steve Colyer for Cody Ross.

The only move that could really be spun as bad that he made was the Lo Duca/Encarnacion trade which did bring in Brad Penny who pitched well from '05-'07.

He also drafted Carlos Santana, Kenley Jansen, David Price (who didn't sign), and didn't trade away the top prospects White had brought in during his time as GM.

If that's your worst GM ever then life is pretty damned good.

Second worst. But he did suck enough for us to land the pick for Kershaw

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

So...they're probably going to acquire Michael Oher then?

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

So...they're probably going to acquire Michael Oher then?

Of course....his 86 overall rating is better than their current 82 overall in Madden.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Browns try to go analytic-minded and hire moneyball acolyte Paul Depodesta from the Mets.

I mean - it has to get better there, right? It almost has to.

Not if the owner continues to get draft advice from the homeless.

[JPhillips]

Count me as very skeptical that Depodesta will work out. What's he going to end up doing that a GM or head coach will be comfortable with? It seems like a power struggle is inevitable. Now if he becomes the GM with a solid football mind as assistant, maybe it can work.

[sabotai]

Giants are interviewing their two coordinators (McAdoo and Spags) but also added to the list of interviewees are Carolina's DC Sean McDermott, Bears OC Adam Gase and former Bills HC Doug Marrone. I'm sure there's a lot to the story and that he probably had good reasons (at least good in his mind), but it doesn't sit well with me as a fan that Marrone bailed on Buffalo after two seasons. I'd prefer McDermott out of the pack. But he's also being targeted by Philly and considering he spent most of his career there, he'd probably choose them over NY.

(Edit: There's a lot of interest in Sean Payton among fans, but I haven't seen anything about him being interviewed yet).

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Giants are interviewing their two coordinators (McAdoo and Spags) but also added to the list of interviewees are Carolina's DC Sean McDermott, Bears OC Adam Gase and former Bills HC Doug Marrone. I'm sure there's a lot to the story and that he probably had good reasons (at least good in his mind), but it doesn't sit well with me as a fan that Marrone bailed on Buffalo after two seasons. I'd prefer McDermott out of the pack. But he's also being targeted by Philly and considering he spent most of his career there, he'd probably choose them over NY.

(Edit: There's a lot of interest in Sean Payton among fans, but I haven't seen anything about him being interviewed yet).

My guess based on what I know of the Marra & Tisch families and their thinking (purely speculative here) is that at the moment (pre-interview stage) they would love to attract a Saban type followed by possible interest in Sean Payton. But I suspect they will question how badly either of them really want to win, as that theme seemed to permeate the language they have been using the past few days, as well as Jerry Reese.

And while I think they are open to outside (non-Giants ties) candidates, they won't likely have their socks blown off by Gase or McDermott enough to go against that trend. In the end, I get the feeling that if it isn't Saban, it ends up being McAdoo...as they don't want to lose him & the comfortability factor with Eli.

[Neuqua]

I think Adam Gase has the potential to be a really good head coach somewhere. Selfishly I'm hoping he stays with the Bears another year.

[NobodyHere]

Please let this happen

Report: Titans request to interview former Colts general manager Chris Polian - Stampede Blue

[JAG]

According to the Detroit Free Press, "several people who know" Calvin Johnson think he could retire this offseason.

I know he's been beat up the past few years, but I'm still surprised by this.

[Coffee Warlord]

Lovie's gone.

[sabotai]

With Jameis Winston as their QB, Chip Kelly to TB would make sense.

[stevew]

What?

I could see doing it last year since they were so bad, but I thought the team took a good step forward this year

[JPhillips]

It seems like they have to have someone big lined up.

[Coffee Warlord]

They have to have someone lined up.

Though, after a quick look, his defense was 25th in points allowed last year, and 26th this year. Hardly an endorsement for an uber-defensive minded coach.

[Dutch]

I was pretty much stunned by the firing of Lovie today. Not that I thought he was a great (or even a good coach) but I figured the Bucs were at least happy for some stability for a change...guess not!

Lots of unhappy Bucs players are taking to Twitter...but the outrage is coming from a collective that went 8-24 the last two seasons...so...we all know the name of the game is to win.

The most interesting comment from a current Bucs players comes from journeyman TE Brandon Myers ‏@myersb83 - "Dirk has been the man since he walked in the door"

It's possible the Bucs were concerned they would lose him as the OC and perhaps will promote him now to HC?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

They have to have someone lined up.

Though, after a quick look, his defense was 25th in points allowed last year, and 26th this year. Hardly an endorsement for an uber-defensive minded coach.

With all the rule changes to defense the last couple of years, I think it's safe to say that Lovie's implementation of the Tampa-2 has become obsolete.

Might have worked out better if we had a dominant front-4 and a secondary capable of handling the Tampa-2 workload. Neither showed much...our LB's have been stellar though...which might just be a by-product of them doing all the work!

[Dutch]

Peter Schrager ‏@PSchrags 10m10 minutes ago

Told Dirk Koetter was surprised as everyone by this. More to come

Apparently he doesn't know he's the man.

[Thomkal]

Sean Payton staying in New Orleans.

[Thomkal]

Seems too early to fire Lovie after getting a franchise QB-not enough time to develop him.

[bhlloy]

All these owners are doing is surely making it impossible to get a top tier guy in the future when they quickly hook a guy who had a young or terrible team. Who in their right mind is going to go to the 49ers, Browns or to a lesser extent the Bucs for the for the next few years?

All you are doing is getting into a cycle of gambling on a lesser known name and hoping you hit the lottery and he can win in his first year. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I'm with you on the 49ers, but I don't think that anyone thinks any less of the franchise ownership because of what happened to Tomsula. That ship sailed last offseason. Then again, this opinion might just be because I'm a jaded fan who is still floored at how quickly the team cratered.

I think the Bucs job will be desirable just because of the talent there.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Lovie's gone.

I think they meant to fire Louis Van Gaal instead.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I'm with you on the 49ers, but I don't think that anyone thinks any less of the franchise ownership because of what happened to Tomsula. That ship sailed last offseason. Then again, this opinion might just be because I'm a jaded fan who is still floored at how quickly the team cratered.

I think the Bucs job will be desirable just because of the talent there.

Plenty of coaches will be okay with getting fired after one year and collecting $14 million for the effort, like Tomsula.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Seems too early to fire Lovie after getting a franchise QB-not enough time to develop him.

Hell, that would be a REASON to fire Lovie, in my mind. Jameis looks like he might be worth something, it's time to dump Lovie and get someone in there who actually is competent at developing QB's.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Hell, that would be a REASON to fire Lovie, in my mind. Jameis looks like he might be worth something, it's time to dump Lovie and get someone in there who actually is competent at developing QB's.

Perhaps then they should never have hired Lovie in the first place if he had such a bad reputation at developing QB's. They knew they were going to go QB with their first pick with Winston. I'm not a Lovie defender by any means, I just think he wasn't given enough time to develop him is all.

[Coffee Warlord]

I don't think they should have. I *never* liked Lovie in Chicago.

But, to be fair, I'm really just trying to come up with various theories to defend the firing - it's definitely one of the more bizarre ones this season.