COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[JPhillips]

I hope this is as amazing as it sounds.

Within weeks, scientists at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research expect to announce that they have developed a vaccine that is effective against COVID-19 and all its variants, even Omicron, as well as from previous SARS-origin viruses that have killed millions of people worldwide.

The achievement is the result of almost two years of work on the virus. The Army lab received its first DNA sequencing of the COVID-19 virus in early 2020. Very early on, Walter Reed’s infectious diseases branch decided to focus on making a vaccine that would work against not just the existing strain but all of its potential variants as well.

[bhlloy]

That will be a fun thought exercise for all the FREEDOM crowd to see if they will get a vaccine created by the Army

[molson]

I'd think their lord and savior Donald Trump getting vaccinated (and boostered) would be more of a selling point.

Though that news is very promising for us normals.

[Lathum]

Got an email tonight. Kid in my daughters 3rd grade class is positive. My daughter isn't a close contact. Text a good friend who has twins in the class. Their daughter was a close contact and has to quarantine. their son wasn't and does not have to quarantine. None of this makes sense,

[Icy]

Tested positive yesterday, it was just a matter of time of all us getting it, but at least with the two vaccine doses that I had already it’s feeling just like a mild flu. Headache and some fever, that is it.

[GrantDawg]

Got my Moderna booster last night. Arm hurting but so far that us the worst of it. Have a hard day today, so I am hoping it won't get worse.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

That will be a fun thought exercise for all the FREEDOM crowd to see if they will get a vaccine created by the Army

Because if there's any group that would love to zombie the population or be able to implant a chip and bring them to heel, it's the army. Amy other response from that crowd won't do. If Obama had this happen on his watch, Texas would outlaw any guard units from getting it and activate them to watch for irregularities within the population.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Icy

Tested positive yesterday, it was just a matter of time of all us getting it, but at least with the two vaccine doses that I had already it’s feeling just like a mild flu. Headache and some fever, that is it.

on the timing. Hope you continue to not feel too bad and recover quickly

[miked]

I'm pretty sure we are heavily under-reporting cases. My daughter tested positive (both doses but finished her course in June) but we used a home test. We actually were turned away from some testing sites yesterday in Decatur and Stone Mountain due to a shortage of supplies. We had some tests stockpiled at home but did not want to use them due to not being able to replace them, but we could not get a test anywhere. So she was positive but will not get reported since there is no "official" test.

[miked]

On a side note we have a friend who was positive last Christmas, got both doses and a booster after, and is now positive again. Bad luck for her!

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

I'd think their lord and savior Donald Trump getting vaccinated (and boostered) would be more of a selling point.

Though that news is very promising for us normals.

No, it's not. They're already invested in their position. If he had done the right thing on the way out and publicized getting the vaccine, this would likely not be as big of an issue. But of course he couldn't do that because he still believed he was President, so that allowed all of his people to take a hardline stance against it for [fill in the bogus reason]. And they've learned to double-down from the very best, so the result is that Trump tells people he's vaxxed and boosted, and he gets booed.

[Edward64]

Haven't really thought about this question in a while - how long should someone self-isolate if positive. It was 10 days but now we have vaccinations and boosters.

The US is still sticking with 10 days and tbf, we probably don't have enough data with omicron right now. So stick with the default.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/22/healt...ess/index.html

Anyone who has Covid-19 should isolate for 10 full days, according to current guidance from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
:
But this holiday season, there has been growing debate around the number of days to isolate if you test positive for Covid-19 but don't have symptoms and are fully vaccinated -- or, better yet, got a booster dose.

This debate comes as Covid-19 cases rise across the United States. As of Tuesday, the nation is averaging 139,764 new cases each day, according to data from Johns Hopkins University -- up 16% from a week ago.

Vaccinated people are less likely than unvaccinated to spread the coronavirus to others, according to the CDC: "Vaccinated people can still become infected and have the potential to spread the virus to others, although at much lower rates than unvaccinated people."

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by miked

On a side note we have a friend who was positive last Christmas, got both doses and a booster after, and is now positive again. Bad luck for her!

One of my son's good friends at school had it, and his family is of the mind that well, no point in getting the shot because he already has antibodies. Not sure that's the best plan.

(Son also doesn't want to get the booster because it's all a big pharma scam. Only so much you can do; at least the rest of us are recently boosted.)

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Icy

Tested positive yesterday, it was just a matter of time of all us getting it, but at least with the two vaccine doses that I had already it’s feeling just like a mild flu. Headache and some fever, that is it.

Thinking of you and your family Icy

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

The US is still sticking with 10 days and tbf, we probably don't have enough data with omicron right now. So stick with the default.

I agree with the not enough data so we don't really know. Getting tested myself this afternoon for the first time as I've picked up a very minor something, probably not COVID but hoping to get results back before the holiday for family reasons. If it's positive that's along the lines of what I intend in terms of isolation.

[molson]

The FDA cleared Pfizer's treatment pill.

Is taking that fair game for the anti-vaxxers?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by molson

The FDA cleared Pfizer's treatment pill.

Is taking that fair game for the anti-vaxxers?

Will I be able to find it in feed stores?

[Atocep]

Our hospital had a 28.5% positive test rate yesterday. Not a good sign with the holidays coming up.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know how anyone can look at something like this and explain away the vaccine. There's just no reasoning with the unreasonable.

2 states, 2 pictures

Almost identical population sizes

Massachusetts has 73% vaccinated
Indiana 53%

Cases nearly identical. Deaths more than twice as high in Indiana.

Get the vaccine. pic.twitter.com/nsND4uBg1W

— Gabriel Bosslet (@gbosslet) December 22, 2021

[molson]

"That chart is fake news funded by big pharma and the libs".

It's pretty easy.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't know how anyone can look at something like this and explain away the vaccine. There's just no reasoning with the unreasonable.

2 states, 2 pictures

Almost identical population sizes

Massachusetts has 73% vaccinated
Indiana 53%

Cases nearly identical. Deaths more than twice as high in Indiana.

Get the vaccine. pic.twitter.com/nsND4uBg1W

— Gabriel Bosslet (@gbosslet) December 22, 2021

It also gets clearer the more data points you take. You can always find 2 that contradict, which is a favoured tactic (they'll find a state with slightly lower that Mass and lower death rate or higher than Indiana but also higher death rate)

Here's the scatter plot of all german states and the calculated 'risk difference' on average:



(Up is excess deaths, left to right vax uptake. Bremen is a 'city state', so a little bit of an outlier in terms of vax percentage, there's other cities within bigger states that get somewhat close at least. Data is from 4 weeks ago due to delay for excess death reporting, will be even clearer now most likely with Covid accounting for a larger percentage of deaths).

And i am willing to bet the differences in vax uptake between the states are fairly similar across age groups (in germany the 'ranking' of vax uptake between the 16 states is almost entirely exactly the same regardless of age group, from seniors to kids, give or take 1 or 2 spots.)

[Brian Swartz]

I don't find it that surprising. Most people, including 'us', whoever us is at the moment, are very susceptible to confirmation bias even when we're trying not to be, but horribly susceptible when we're not. The average person is terrible at applying logic to daily decision-making, nvm the big emotional stuff.

[PilotMan]

Every day, I care less and less about the unvaccinated and how many of them are dying versus the vaccinated. At some point, the numbers are simply the result of personal choices, and there's a limit to the amount of influence the group can have. If they simply choose their own path, and that path leads to their own death, oh well?

I like to tell people, "the FAA doesn't care one bit if you kill yourself in a plane." You are in charge, you're flying, you die on your own account, ok, we'll move on. What the FAA really, really hates, is you killing other people. So if you crash, don't kill anyone else, whether it be passengers, or people on the ground. That's when things go badly. With covid it's hard to quantify the amount of death do to other people not getting vaccinated. The numbers are there, but it's really hard to quantify. But we're basically at the point now, where everyone has had the chance to get vaccinated, and boosted. So even people who were at risk, are now much better protected. I simply don't care that much anymore if people die by their own choices, and their own reasoning was because the science was bad, and that they knew more.

[Edward64]

I appreciate SCOTUS expediting this. No idea how they'll eventually vote but good to get a decision either way and get on with it.

Wonder if other western countries have to deal with similar.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/22/polit...urt/index.html

The Supreme Court said Wednesday it is scheduling oral arguments for January 7 in the cases challenging the Biden administration's Covid-19 vaccine requirements for large employers and certain health care workers.

The court's rare move to bypass the normal process and to hear oral arguments now comes as the coronavirus pandemic rages globally and the Omicron variant takes hold over the holiday season. The employer mandate at issue would impact some 80 million workers across the country, while the administration's vaccine requirement for health care workers covers more than 10.3 million people in the United States.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Every day, I care less and less about the unvaccinated and how many of them are dying versus the vaccinated. At some point, the numbers are simply the result of personal choices, and there's a limit to the amount of influence the group can have. If they simply choose their own path, and that path leads to their own death, oh well?

If it were so simple ... For many the path first leads into a hospital. If a hospital is overstretched, everybody who needs treatment can be the one suffering the consequences. That has always been the main dilemma.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Got my Moderna booster last night. Arm hurting but so far that us the worst of it. Have a hard day today, so I am hoping it won't get worse.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Woke up this morning with a fever, headache, and muscle aches. Possibly from the booster, but possibly something else. I was really achy the day of the booster, but it was raining and 38 degrees, so I thought it was arthritic. The longer I have been up today, the worse I feel.

[Edward64]

50+ cases in Xian and China shuts down the city of 13M. This was Delta and not Omicron.

I don't see how their zero tolerance will be sustainable for much longer. I'd be negotiating with Pfizer to license their covid pill (or like) and start mass producing them.

[Ksyrup]

My daughter is getting Moderna booster right now and she is worried about the after-effects. I'm several days past my Pfizer booster and had zero issues. But Moderna seems to be more of an issue. My wife had it and also had a brief fever and chills.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

My daughter is getting Moderna booster right now and she is worried about the after-effects. I'm several days past my Pfizer booster and had zero issues. But Moderna seems to be more of an issue. My wife had it and also had a brief fever and chills.

I was fuzzy headed for the evening and then most of the next day. My wife had it a bit worse with some chills and aches. For both of us, it was less of a reaction than the second shot and gone after the next day.

SI

[Cuckoo]

Got Moderna booster last week - no side effects but a slightly sore arm that I didn't even notice unless I pressed on it. All three adults in my family had two shots of Moderna and the booster, and nobody had a single issue.

[QuikSand]

Pop-up cases seem like they are everywhere around us. My staff of 9 seems unlikely to be able to have an in-person work day anytime soon... one who is likely + already, but half of us are discovering exposures from each recent day. I'm taking another quick test tonight, based on now three newly discovered exposures from my last day in the state capital city Monday. All just consistent with a lot of people walking around unknowingly positive.

My mother (late 70s) was supposed to visit... our family just can't offer assurances it's safe for her to be here. We're not religious, so the 25th isn't a really big deal, but... this sucks (in admittedly small ways), and it's apparently just going to for a while, at least.

[Solecismic]

The hospital issue is worrisome. Not just the spike now, but in general, since people have had to put off non-emergency quality-of-life surgeries.

Medical ethics is a profession. I don't know if we have anyone here trained in it, but it would be interesting to see a more specific, trained take on this since we're starting to see the mainstream media outlets suggest that hospitals put unvaccinated people at the end of the triage line.

What would be comparable? Obviously, restricted to times when doctors and nurses are overwhelmed. But how would it work? Triage has always been, ethically, about saving lives first. Who is in the most danger and would attention possibly save this person?

Let's say you have a major traffic accident. And the EMTs helping transport the injured tell you that it was likely caused by someone who was distracted while texting a friend. That person is in a lot of danger, but your hospital is overwhelmed with other drivers and some of them are in danger, too. What would the ethicist say?

Or there's a mass incident of some sort and you have hundreds of patients in danger, and it's difficult to tell who is in the most need - do you immediately put those who are overweight at the end of line? Maybe you're into racial discrimination? Or maybe you ask if these people are vaccinated?

I'm having a hard time with this. I see the argument, but I also feel that doctors cannot indulge it. They cannot be judges and juries. Obviously, there's a segment of the right wing that doesn't trust this vaccination. We can argue about why, but the fact is that the vaccination saves lives and they are not behaving rationally. And some minority groups also don't trust it - the percentages in some groups are even lower than for the right wing.

Of course, these are just trends. There are many people in every group, every intersection, every class and every family, even, who don't behave in the same way. Stereotyping is never helpful.

Isn't the best answer to try and reach out and explain how vaccinations work? The more we demonize people, the more entrenched they become and the harder it is to get to our goal, which I hope is to save as many lives as possible. I worry that these days, it isn't.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Let's say you have a major traffic accident. And the EMTs helping transport the injured tell you that it was likely caused by someone who was distracted while texting a friend. That person is in a lot of danger, but your hospital is overwhelmed with other drivers and some of them are in danger, too. What would the ethicist say?

Or there's a mass incident of some sort and you have hundreds of patients in danger, and it's difficult to tell who is in the most need - do you immediately put those who are overweight at the end of line? Maybe you're into racial discrimination? Or maybe you ask if these people are vaccinated?

The big difference to me is that the normal triage priority stuff makes perfect sense if it's a mass casualty event of some kind. Everybody else can come back next week. But the ethical question changes when it's an indefinite or permanent change of circumstances, and when dealing with it instead like it's just a big singular mass incident makes the impacts of the pandemic worse for everyone. There are studies going on about the impact of COVID (and mostly the antivaxxers) on the long term prognosis of childhood cancers and other chronic issues where treatments or detection is getting delayed.

The obesity thing gets brought up a lot. If there was a simple, free, widely available vaccine that drastically reduced the risk of obesity (or addiction, or whatever), I don't think it would be too much to ask to mandate or give preference to those who got that vaccine if they're going to be using up community hospital resources that everyone relies on. That wouldn't be a moral policy, it would be a practical one. If fewer kids with cancer are going to die if we require more people to get a free safe shot to access a public healthcare system, that seems like the ethical choice to me.

[Solecismic]

Trends are dangerous tools, though. We are all individuals and we all have basic rights.

However, exercising those rights sometimes affects other people's basic rights. Negotiating those conflicts is often difficult. I have a right to own a dog, but you have a right to enjoy your home in peace and quiet. What happens when we're neighbors?

Where do we draw lines and who draws them? To me, freedom might mean tying Rover to a stake in the backyard all day while he barks at falling leaves. To you, freedom might mean never having to hear a single bark for any reason.

I was reading a study from the UK that a small percentage of people make up about 20% of all doctor visits. The average person in this group has a doctor's appointment every other week. Should health care be rationed? Who decides whether a doctor's visit is warranted?

The authors hint at community outreach, especially in these COVID times, to address potential loneliness in the population.

I think we can do far more good by asking people why they don't trust vaccines and then sitting down, actually listening, and finding answers to their concerns without judging or stereotyping.

I'm not saying that's easy. I wrote a couple of months ago about our electrician, who when estimating a difficult job for us went on and on as he was leaving about his decision not to be vaccinated and his constant consumption of right-wing news. It was excruciating. But I listened, tried to interject some interesting questions when I could, and was rewarded with a good bid for a job many electricians had passed on.

He did the work. He obviously had a strong sense of integrity, even offered to cover the cost of a mistake he made in assessing a code that meant he had to replace some expensive components rather than reuse them (we have a crazy-complicated electrical wall in our home - built in the '60s and tons of custom stuff that has no value today). He did good work, passed county inspection without issue. And the whole time (thankfully, I could read in a corner of the house far out of hearing range) listening to whatever right-wing talk radio there is in this area (you can tell by the pitch of the voice - it seems all identical to me, maybe I could tell the difference if I paid attention).

Point being, he has chosen to live in this cocoon. I believe he's a basically honest, good person, but this is his choice. You and I might believe he is damaging himself, but he is not going to listen to us about this. To him, not being vaccinated was an agonizing decision, but he simply doesn't trust anything outside of his cocoon. He genuinely believes the vaccine could kill him. You and I could point to stats that say that chance is more like one in many millions, but the change of not dying is, oh, a tiny bit higher. But he won't trust that.

And that's where we are right now. Too much demonizing and too much cocooning. And it's not just this guy's segment of the right wing, because we're nowhere near where we should be in vaccination rates for any group.

But... where I think we disagree is this idea that a doctor can act for the goodwill of mankind in this case. I don't want doctors to think that way. I think doctors have to take the situation as it is in that moment and perform triage based only on what's in front of them that's relevant to how they will treat the presentation.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Isn't the best answer to try and reach out and explain how vaccinations work? The more we demonize people, the more entrenched they become and the harder it is to get to our goal, which I hope is to save as many lives as possible. I worry that these days, it isn't.

I think the rest of the post is good and molson has already hit on it. But with this - haven't we spent the better part of a year working on vaccination outreach? It's not for a lack of trying and trying varied methods. There have been a lot of carrot approaches from the simplicity of having, say, a political leader from the left like Biden, a scientist like Fauci or, a couple of posts ago, Trump extol the virtues of them. There were incentives back when the vaccines were being rolled out: a number of sports teams who would give away free tickets that were promoted by athletes and celebrities, cities or employers would give you money or, companies would give you free product, etc. Listening to Kansas football, I swear more than half the ads are either local or from the ad council (high demand product!) - they had ads talking about getting the vaccine (I think Edward was talking about this in another thread). What other major avenues are there on the carrot side.

That's when the stick starts coming in: employer mandates, vaccine passports, increased costs. If you can't be reasoned with, encouraged, or enticed - what options are left? You can either accept that a bunch of people aren't going to get vaccinated and the consequences of that (higher hospital and death rates, etc) or the cost of basically forcing people to do it and the consequences of that (potential civil unrest, civil liberties arguments, etc). Just doing nothing does fall into the first category.

As an aside, I swear that in my lifetime, we've seemingly decided in this country that our answer to the trolley problem is to just ignore things and hope the trolley goes away. We won't punish those in charge for their inaction killing five people but will crucify them for making the decision to kill the one to save the five. And, as an engineer and a utilitarian, that leads to much less efficient and worse outcomes across the board but we refuse to look at problems holistically. Maybe it's always been that way but it feels like it has shifted substantially in the last couple of decades.

SI

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think the rest of the post is good and molson has already hit on it. But with this - haven't we spent the better part of a year working on vaccination outreach? It's not for a lack of trying and trying varied methods. There have been a lot of carrot approaches from the simplicity of having, say, a political leader from the left like Biden, a scientist like Fauci or, a couple of posts ago, Trump extol the virtues of them. There were incentives back when the vaccines were being rolled out: a number of sports teams who would give away free tickets that were promoted by athletes and celebrities, cities or employers would give you money or, companies would give you free product, etc. Listening to Kansas football, I swear more than half the ads are either local or from the ad council (high demand product!) - they had ads talking about getting the vaccine (I think Edward was talking about this in another thread). What other major avenues are there on the carrot side.

That's when the stick starts coming in: employer mandates, vaccine passports, increased costs. If you can't be reasoned with, encouraged, or enticed - what options are left? You can either accept that a bunch of people aren't going to get vaccinated and the consequences of that (higher hospital and death rates, etc) or the cost of basically forcing people to do it and the consequences of that (potential civil unrest, civil liberties arguments, etc). Just doing nothing does fall into the first category.

As an aside, I swear that in my lifetime, we've seemingly decided in this country that our answer to the trolley problem is to just ignore things and hope the trolley goes away. We won't punish those in charge for their inaction killing five people but will crucify them for making the decision to kill the one to save the five. And, as an engineer and a utilitarian, that leads to much less efficient and worse outcomes across the board but we refuse to look at problems holistically. Maybe it's always been that way but it feels like it has shifted substantially in the last couple of decades.

SI

I agree with the crux of your post. But what worries me is the nagging question, "Who Decides?"

Maybe the answer really is that COVID is different. But I don't know if it reaches that standard. This latest outbreak seems to hit vaccinated and unvaccinated. There seems to be some agreement, perhaps unquestioned in the medical community, that your risk of serious illness from Omicron is greatly reduced by vaccination.

But... some of the outreach works the other way. The demonization causes harm because it fosters mistrust. When social media outlets censor people for quoting the concept that there is such a thing as natural immunity from having had COVID, that fosters mistrust. Instead of saying, "yes, but you're even better protected if you have the vaccine as well and here's the data," we're shutting down legitimate questions because we have an (in their eyes) an agenda.

Ultimately, and this is what scares me, is that we've been through this before, in different forms. Not COVID, of course and not with vaccines. But the idea that a government could mold a population. It was called eugenics back then and there were wildly popular proponents like Woodrow Wilson, Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh. And then, all of a sudden, we saw what eugenics looked like in the hands of a more totalitarian government. And getting through that changed our world and cost tens of millions of lives. Have we forgotten this lesson?

When we stereotype, we use it to demonize. And that leads us to bad places. We're in a bad-enough place right now where something that shouldn't be necessary (a vaccine mandate) could actually cause more harm that it's worth. I also hate using the slippery slope argument, because if you use it too loosely, well, that's a slippery slope in and of itself. But this "for the good of the whole" argument sounds dangerous. Who Decides?

[lungs]

Anybody had the pleasure of Omicron yet? Pretty positive that it is what I had the pleasure of having this past week. I've had double Moderna, no booster.

Pretty much was just a head cold. Sinuses alternating between being tickled with a feather and being on fire. Short duration, low grade fever a day after first symptoms. Feeling pretty close to normal today (first symptoms last Friday). Was well enough to work from home this week, though I didn't put in full days.

Never got into my lungs, so my namesake organ came through pretty good. Went on a little hike this morning and felt good getting the heart pumping a little bit.

Hopefully Omicron is this mild for most. The reason I believe it was Omicron is that I had Covid, and the symptoms I've been reading about Omicron match up well to what I had.

[miami_fan]

Similar to mental health and domestic abuse discussions earlier on in the pandemic, we probably need to start advocating on behalf of those that are overweight as far as how they are treated by the medical community. If you have listened to the experiences of overweight people when dealing with the medical community, those experiences sound very much as Jim described and are based solely on the fact that they are overweight.

To be clear, I am not arguing whether the un-vaccinated should or should not be "punished" by the medical community based on their status. What I am saying is that if we are making comparisons with the overweight community as far as medical treatment, we have to acknowledge that the medical community does "punish" the overweight community based on their inability or unwillingness to lose weight.

[Icy]

On my third day after testing positive I’m totally fine, just a little bit tired but no fever at all. So basically for me it was one day of high fever, terrible headache and body pain with pressure in my chest (this was scary) and nose congestion. Second day the pressure on the chest was gone, just mild headache and low fever persisted. Third day I’m totally fine. Will remain self isolated for a total of 10 days but I must say that probably thanks to the vaccine and that omicron is less dangerous, I just had two bad days.

The worst was the timing as we won’t be able to have dinner with family and my kids are so sad about it but at least we will be able to celebrate the end of the year together. So far wife and kids tested negative, probably because I self isolated in a room as soon as I felt bad even before being tested positive.

If somebody is still wondering, take the vaccine, I had two doses of Pfizer and will get the third one as soon as it’s available here.

Thanks to all you caring about me.

[sabotai]

Just got boosted (Pfizer) with a side of the flu vaccine. I'll report back if getting both at the same time gives you super powers.

[Lathum]

Kids, 8 and 11, got their second dose yesterday. Both down for th count today. Headaches, tired, chills. They felt OK to go to school, both came home and went right to bed.

[Lathum]

I feel like the NBA is desperately trying to get through their Christmas showcase games then will shut down.

[miami_fan]

The only way the NBA shuts down is if a player somehow falls out on the court and then is found to have caught COVID. I feel it is the same for all sports leagues. The NHL is fortunate to have that Olympic break already built into the schedule.

[GrantDawg]

Someone in my wife's office tested positive tonight. That is putting our whole holiday plans in jeopardy.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[PilotMan]

BOOOOOO THAT PERSON!!!!!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Ksyrup]

Both girls got their boosters yesterday and both are struggling today. One Moderna, on Pfizer. Both had Covid, which is probably the reason.

[GrantDawg]

There are absolutely no testing available within 30 miles of our house.

[Edward64]

I assume there will be a large number of unvaccinated infected but those will be mild(er) and they won't get seriously ill. So that means they will have some natural immunity for X months in the future right?

So even though vaccinations (both & single) may hover around 61-70%, logically there will be another X% with natural immunity as a result of them catching and recovering from Covid.

The 2 big questions are - how "strong/effective" is the natural immunity as a result of Omicron, and how long will it last (I've read natural immunity doesn't last as long as vaccinations).

As COVID cases soar across the U.S., health experts have predicted things will get worse in 2022 as the Omicron variant is expected to cause 140 million new infections from January to March, infecting 60 percent of all Americans, the majority of which will be asymptomatic cases.

Researchers from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington updated their COVID-19 model and expect the virus to hit the US hard come January, peaking at 2.8 million new cases a day by January 28.

'We are expecting an enormous surge in infections ... so, an enormous spread of Omicron,' IHME director Dr. Chris Murray said told USA Today.

[Brian Swartz]

I had to go about 40 miles to be tested, not because there weren't other sites, but because they required referrals or weren't testing due to lack of staffing.

[Lathum]

We just went to breakfast in the same plaza as a testing site. The line literally stretched the entire length of the center. At least 50 people deep.