Alright Boyz, Here We Go!!!! (OOTP 2007 release thoughts!!!)

[Ksyrup]

There must be potholes all over the OF at Briggs/Tigers Stadium, because in addition to the multiple long-term injuries that killed Dick Wakefield's career for me (I just traded him because he's a shell of himself), I've just lost 3 more OF during 1949 to 4, 6 and 12 month injuries. I'm at the trade deadline and one of them will be back in about 3 weeks, but I've only got 3 OF in my entire organization right now! Ridiculous!!

[yabanci]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is also an issue, unfortunately. It appears that the % stats/rating feature isn't really taking stats into account as much as it should be. A number of us have reported to them an issue where good pitchers are being demoted/released immediately following good-to-great seasons, simply because of a dip in ratings. Some of them are maybe 1-2 points in stuff, for example. And even where a guy's ratings drop off considerably, it would be rare for a team to completely give up on a guy coming off of a 20 win season, say, without at least throwing him out there next year, seeing bad results, and THEN dumping him. But here, they're getting dumped during the off-season, no other team is willing to even sign them (another problem that wouldn't occur IRL), and then they retire in a year or so. I had a guy who was 2-time defending Cy Young Award winner dumped into FA the following off-season, never got picked up by anyone, and then retired the next year.

out of curiosity, what AI evaluation options are you using?

[bselig]

I gave in and picked this up today, after skipping 2006. Does anyone have an alternate DL link for the redsox45 template or can host it(only 3 megs)? it's down at the link from the thread in the OOTP forums

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Dekanth

I have read through most, but not all of this thread, so forgive me if I missed it anywhere, but has anybody actually played this game yet, or are you all just simming historical stuff?

I would love to know how it is to play a fictional league. How is the player development? How are the drafts? How is the AI when it comes to lineups, rotations, trading, drafting, etc?

I appreciate how this game appeals to historical simmers, but I never do that, so I am curious how it fares as a true text sim game.

I'm playing it fictionally. The players seem to develop a little too quickly. The drafts are mostly ok, except for the AI undervaluing the stud middle relievers that are available.

The lineups and rotations aren't horrible, except for the fact it will use your backup catcher as a backup at other positions or DH.... when the backup catcher should never be used in this fashion.

I have trading on very hard and still usually can find a deal that I'll take when I shop a player.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by yabanci

out of curiosity, what AI evaluation options are you using?

Are you referring to the percentages? Right now I'm using 10/50/30/10, but I've tried all sorts of different combinations.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I'm playing it fictionally. The players seem to develop a little too quickly. The drafts are mostly ok, except for the AI undervaluing the stud middle relievers that are available.

With the historical rosters, I'm finding that the AI is consistently giving 4-5 star current and potential ratings to relievers who weren't very good IRL, and who pitched maybe a couple of years at most in the majors. It has gotten to where I see oneof these guys, I automatically know to avoid them. Kinda like a reverse star rating system for MRs.

[bselig]

Ok, I got the template and after an hour or so of downloading/setting stuff up I'm ready to go. But I have a question about minors. Is the development with the minors the same as with the reserve(which would be disappointing) and aren't I going to run out of roster spots pretty quick with just one level of minors?

[HeavyReign]

Found this while looking at the almanac...in 1989 Kirk McCaskill throws back to back no hitters.

Date	Player	No-Hitters
07-15-1977	Pat Zachry	9 IP, 0 BB and 4 Strikeouts versus Houston while playing for Cincinnati (PERFECT GAME)
06-25-1978	Dan Schatzeder	9 IP, 0 BB and 3 Strikeouts versus St. Louis while playing for Montreal
05-17-1979	Darrell Jackson	9 IP, 6 BB and 4 Strikeouts versus Baltimore while playing for Boston
05-17-1979	Rick Waits	9 IP, 7 BB and 4 Strikeouts versus Toronto while playing for Cleveland
06-24-1979	Rick Wise	9 IP, 3 BB and 2 Strikeouts versus Oakland while playing for Texas
10-07-1980	Fernando Valenzuela	9 IP, 3 BB and 12 Strikeouts versus San Francisco while playing for Philadelphia
06-23-1981	J.R. Richard	9 IP, 5 BB and 7 Strikeouts versus Pittsburgh while playing for Houston
09-02-1981	Jim Wright	9 IP, 1 BB and 9 Strikeouts versus Cleveland while playing for Oakland
08-03-1983	Sid Fernandez	9 IP, 2 BB and 8 Strikeouts versus Cincinnati while playing for Los Angeles
08-31-1983	Eric Wilkins	9 IP, 4 BB and 4 Strikeouts versus Minnesota while playing for Boston
09-10-1983	Don Sutton	9 IP, 2 BB and 7 Strikeouts versus Atlanta while playing for Los Angeles
09-15-1983	Atlee Hammaker	9 IP, 1 BB and 7 Strikeouts versus Montreal while playing for Philadelphia
05-01-1985	Atlee Hammaker	9 IP, 2 BB and 8 Strikeouts versus Montreal while playing for Philadelphia
07-18-1985	Lee Tunnell	9 IP, 6 BB and 7 Strikeouts versus Cleveland while playing for Chicago
07-21-1985	Joe Niekro	9 IP, 4 BB and 5 Strikeouts versus Texas while playing for Detroit
08-24-1985	Larry McWilliams	9 IP, 4 BB and 10 Strikeouts versus San Diego while playing for New York
06-19-1986	Jack Morris	9 IP, 1 BB and 10 Strikeouts versus Chicago while playing for New York
10-05-1986	Kirk McCaskill	9 IP, 2 BB and 6 Strikeouts versus New York while playing for Pittsburgh
07-09-1987	Tim Leary	9 IP, 1 BB and 9 Strikeouts versus Detroit while playing for Anaheim
06-16-1989	Kirk McCaskill	9 IP, 4 BB and 5 Strikeouts versus Houston while playing for San Diego
06-21-1989	Kirk McCaskill	9 IP, 3 BB and 4 Strikeouts versus Los Angeles while playing for San Diego
07-15-1989	Mark Gardner	9 IP, 1 BB and 4 Strikeouts versus San Francisco while playing for Pittsburgh
05-22-1992	Kevin Appier	9 IP, 1 BB and 6 Strikeouts versus Cleveland while playing for Seattle
05-29-1992	Alex Fernandez	9 IP, 0 BB and 3 Strikeouts versus Milwaukee while playing for New York (PERFECT GAME)
06-14-1992	Frank Seminara	9 IP, 0 BB and 0 Strikeouts versus Anaheim while playing for Kansas City
05-08-1993	Mark Leiter	9 IP, 3 BB and 8 Strikeouts versus Toronto while playing for Baltimore
06-11-1993	Kevin Gross	9 IP, 5 BB and 4 Strikeouts versus Texas while playing for Cleveland
06-30-1993	Charles Nagy	9 IP, 2 BB and 8 Strikeouts versus Colorado while playing for Atlanta
09-13-1994	Ken Hill	9 IP, 4 BB and 6 Strikeouts versus San Diego while playing for San Francisco
07-20-1995	Darryl Kile	9 IP, 2 BB and 9 Strikeouts versus Florida while playing for Los Angeles
08-16-1995	Robert Person	9 IP, 3 BB and 6 Strikeouts versus Florida while playing for Atlanta
05-19-1996	Bud Black	9 IP, 2 BB and 1 Strikeouts versus Seattle while playing for Baltimore
07-19-1997	Chuck Finley	9 IP, 2 BB and 9 Strikeouts versus St. Louis while playing for Cincinnati

[bselig]

Ok, just getting into this and didn't play 06. A couple little things I miss:

No text scouting reports. Even though they were repetitive and pointless for gameplay, I liked reading stuff like 'Ruth is a tremendous slugger!' or whatever

I haven't yet been able to find a screen that lists your lineup alongside their triple crown stats, like the old OOTP and in mogul. I always found that an intuitive way to get an idea of your roster

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

What would a 30 second spot on say, the late edition of Baseball Tonight run?

The problem isn't advertising. OOTP 2007 is way too complicated for the average gamer. Heck, it's gotten so tedious that even hardcore gamers are taking a pass at it. The average sports fan watching Baseball Tonight wants to turn on his 360 and start playing, not spend 2 months behind his computer setting up his "universe".

But it's not why the game hasn't sold well. The reason it hasn't sold well is because the game sucks now and is nothing like OOTP. I still can't fathom why SI would team up with Markus only to completely re-do his succesful game. I'm not a 6.5 fanboy, but it was a good game, and needed a strong year or two of development to be a fantastic game.

Here is where SI went wrong. First, they just don't understand baseball and the fact it's primarily an American sport. The game was clearly catered to target a more international audience, which alienated your US fan base. I would say a majority of the OOTP fans liked setting up a league and playing it. They didn't need 5 others running across the world, they didn't need complex minor leagues in each one, and they didn't need all the crazy options that are available in OOTP. I'm sure there are people who wanted those features, but it's not a large percent of the owners.

The next problem is that re-writing the game to include all these new features, the new interface, and everything else caused neglect into the parts of the game that OOTP fans loved. The roster management AI is horrendous and still worse than 6.5. The in-game AI is better, but still no better than 6.5 either. It takes much longer to setup leagues, lineups, rosters, and everything else that was in 6.5. You basically built the universe crap at the expense of gameplay AI, roster management AI, and usability. Basically you killed everything that made OOTP good, then wonder why no one buys it. You would have been better off making a few adjustments to 6.5 and putting out 2006/2007 under a different title. The new versions are nothing like OOTP despite the name on the product.

But the biggest flaw is that the game just isn't fun anymore. I feel like I'm doing work and not having fun when I play. Menus are reduntant, management is overly tedious, and one small mess-up can send your universe into a downward spiral. I'm sure some people can really pour their hearts into the game and enjoy it, but I just can't invest that much time and effort into something that is supposed to be fun.

Here is my suggestion for the folks at SI to save this franchise.

1) Dump this universe crap. Yes it's a novel idea and if implemented correctly could be a lot of fun. It's just too complicated for the averague user though, and the sheer number of variables involved in it makes it near impossible to produce realistic results in a simulation environment. It's not your fault, it's just hard to build an AI that can manage rosters in a small league with 1 minor league team to one that has 30 teams and 5 minor league levels. Stick to the MLB format with 3, maybe 4 minor league teams. Yes it will piss off a few people who have lavish plans for global baseball leagues, but it will bring back the core of the gamers who loved playing the game.

2) Quit listening to the moronic suggestions of 4-5 people on the OOTP board who have ridiculous ideas for the game. They are such a small percentage of the fan base, yet they seem to implement every friggin idea they come up with.

"Lets set it up so I can control the bowel movements of my AA shortstop"

"Sounds great, we'll put the in-game AI on the backburner"

3) Ditch the stupid interface and go back to what worked. It's a game, not quantum physics. I shouldn't need to go through 11 pages to change my closer.

Basically my suggestion is to abort this montrocity and go back to what worked. Not saying work off 6.5, just saying to build it in that mold and add the features we wanted in it such as better stat tracking, better AI, and better league play. The game had a great niche in the simulation market, and a great community. Markus is much better off without SI.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

With the historical rosters, I'm finding that the AI is consistently giving 4-5 star current and potential ratings to relievers who weren't very good IRL, and who pitched maybe a couple of years at most in the majors. It has gotten to where I see oneof these guys, I automatically know to avoid them. Kinda like a reverse star rating system for MRs.

The stars being broken on MR's is a bit of a separate issue I believe. I don't think the AI uses the stars in their evaluation anyway... at least I hope not.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The problem isn't advertising. OOTP 2007 is way too complicated for the average gamer. Heck, it's gotten so tedious that even hardcore gamers are taking a pass at it. The average sports fan watching Baseball Tonight wants to turn on his 360 and start playing, not spend 2 months behind his computer setting up his "universe".

But it's not why the game hasn't sold well. The reason it hasn't sold well is because the game sucks now and is nothing like OOTP. I still can't fathom why SI would team up with Markus only to completely re-do his succesful game. I'm not a 6.5 fanboy, but it was a good game, and needed a strong year or two of development to be a fantastic game.

Here is my suggestion for the folks at SI to save this franchise.


2) Quit listening to the moronic suggestions of 4-5 people on the OOTP board who have ridiculous ideas for the game.


Basically my suggestion is to abort this montrocity and go back to what worked. Markus is much better off without SI.

There is a lot of truth in what you've posted here. I am not quite sure that I don't like 2007 yet. It's much better then 2006, but the more I play the more red flags I'm starting to see.

I have thought for a long time that OOTP has listened to a vocal lunatic fringe, it's unfortunate some of what they have wraught. Also SI has clearly miscalculated that the person that plays OOTP is looking for the same thing as the person that plays FM. FM players enjoy the one day at a time sim - I think the majority of OOTP players are looking to be able to get many years into a league and look at the history. That was the beauty of OOTP 4-6.5, the ease in which you could create a long history and enjoy a league as it developed. What OOTP needed to do was make the AI better so that the game would actually be a challenge on a single player basis. Instead they have created a game where the cost to learn it is so high that most new players are going to invest the time. If you've never played EHM or FM or OOTP, I can't imagine how steep the learning curve would be for someone. I've played all three and still can't figure out where some things are in the game.

Hopefully if OOTP doesn't work out commercially for SI, Marcus still owns 6.5 and maybe can go back to improving that.

I also hope that some of the OOTP lunatic fringe has learned that you need to be careful what you wish for.

[Ksyrup]

I completely agree with the universe issue and the fact that even if you want to have it in the game, the game is not to the point where it can produce realistic results with all of these moving parts (international leagues, minor league, major and minor independent leagues, feeder leagues, etc.). I am slowly beginning to enjoy the game, but that's probably because (a) I'm only playing historical and not having to deal with the separate issues the fictional side has, and (b) I'm quick simming and not really seeing some of the more detail-oriented problems of the game.

[Buccaneer]

That was the beauty of OOTP 4-6.5, the ease in which you could create a long history and enjoy a league as it developed.

QFT (esp. if you are a fast-simmer).

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I completely agree with the universe issue and the fact that even if you want to have it in the game, the game is not to the point where it can produce realistic results with all of these moving parts (international leagues, minor league, major and minor independent leagues, feeder leagues, etc.). I am slowly beginning to enjoy the game, but that's probably because (a) I'm only playing historical and not having to deal with the separate issues the fictional side has, and (b) I'm quick simming and not really seeing some of the more detail-oriented problems of the game.

That's the only way I have ever played OOTP and never had any desire to play it any other way in SP (primarily because I love historical and there always have been problems playing fictional). It seems to work okay if you implement some house rules and ignore some of AI stuff. I had been looking for a version that would simply improve in how I play, mainly reducing the house rules. Instead, we get a game that has everything possible in there and I still don't know if it would improve in how I play. I know my game is in there (as Ksyrup is finding out), it comes down to my tolerance in seeing everyone else's game there too.

[LionsFan10]

I've got a question. I've downloaded a few of the facegen packs off of PadreFan's website because there is some really good work on there ... but none of the .zips came with a read-me. Where, exactly do I drop these .png files to incorporate the new stuff?

It's a jersey/cap pack, to help make things clear.

[Marc Duffy]

But it's not why the game hasn't sold well. The reason it hasn't sold well is because the game sucks now and is nothing like OOTP. I still can't fathom why SI would team up with Markus only to completely re-do his succesful game. I'm not a 6.5 fanboy, but it was a good game, and needed a strong year or two of development to be a fantastic game.

Just wanted to say here that the team that made OOTP 1 to 6.5 are the very same team that made 2006 and 2007. 'SI' didn't re-do anything - Markus and his team led the project as per normal

Here is where SI went wrong. First, they just don't understand baseball and the fact it's primarily an American sport. The game was clearly catered to target a more international audience, which alienated your US fan base. I would say a majority of the OOTP fans liked setting up a league and playing it. They didn't need 5 others running across the world, they didn't need complex minor leagues in each one, and they didn't need all the crazy options that are available in OOTP. I'm sure there are people who wanted those features, but it's not a large percent of the owners.

Again SI didnt get involved in the direction of the game. Markus drove the game forward and it's all his great vision (as it was before). SI provided the tools and framework to allow Markus to carry out his vision.

The next problem is that re-writing the game to include all these new features, the new interface, and everything else caused neglect into the parts of the game that OOTP fans loved. The roster management AI is horrendous and still worse than 6.5. The in-game AI is better, but still no better than 6.5 either. It takes much longer to setup leagues, lineups, rosters, and everything else that was in 6.5. You basically built the universe crap at the expense of gameplay AI, roster management AI, and usability. Basically you killed everything that made OOTP good, then wonder why no one buys it. You would have been better off making a few adjustments to 6.5 and putting out 2006/2007 under a different title. The new versions are nothing like OOTP despite the name on the product.

The UI can be attributed to SI but you misunderstand fundamentally that it's the same guys making this game that made 6.5.

2) Quit listening to the moronic suggestions of 4-5 people on the OOTP board who have ridiculous ideas for the game. They are such a small percentage of the fan base, yet they seem to implement every friggin idea they come up with.

"Lets set it up so I can control the bowel movements of my AA shortstop"

"Sounds great, we'll put the in-game AI on the backburner"

I'm not sure I understand how you can say they are a small % of the fanbase?

3) Ditch the stupid interface and go back to what worked. It's a game, not quantum physics. I shouldn't need to go through 11 pages to change my closer.

Basically my suggestion is to abort this montrocity and go back to what worked. Not saying work off 6.5, just saying to build it in that mold and add the features we wanted in it such as better stat tracking, better AI, and better league play. The game had a great niche in the simulation market, and a great community. Markus is much better off without SI.

Markus has come out and said publically that a complete rewrite was much needed in order to allow him to take the game forward. You make a lot of assumptions and I believe that on many counts you are very wrong but I respect your opinion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

I'm not sure I understand how you can say they are a small % of the fanbase?

I know there's been some talk that sales have been less than hoped for, but if "4-5 people" isn't a small percentage of the fanbase, then things sound a lot worse than anybody thought.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I know there's been some talk that sales have been less than hoped for, but if "4-5 people" isn't a small percentage of the fanbase, then things sound a lot worse than anybody thought.

point taken

[Ksyrup]

Well, I've come to the conclusion that the only way I can play this game and feel like I'm actually "playing" it is to micromanage. I've tried being hands off and just acting as GM, and unforunately, the lack of ability to make isolated lineup moves that the AI won't go back and change after I'm done has killed my ability to play at the macro level, which is really what I wanted to do. It's either all or nothing with this game, which is too bad.

So, after 7 years of my Tigers career that began in 1946, I decided to learn from my mistake and took on an expansion team challenge, the 1962 Houston Colt 45s. Another thing killing my interest is the sign-and-release bug, as I targeted 10 FAs and had 8 of them repeatedly sign with another team and end up as FAs the next day, only to have me make round after round of offers, have them rejected (or completely ignored because of the bug, I can't tell which), then show up in FA, until finally, each one just stopped showing up in FA anymore. Extremely frustrating and a waste of my time. Anyway, playing hands on only got me to the trade deadline of 1962, and I've got an expansion team sitting in a tie for 1st at 61-43.

I'm having a hard time finding a balance between micromanaging and kicking the AI's ass, and macromanaging and feeling like I'm actually contributing to the success/failure of my team.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Well, I've come to the conclusion that the only way I can play this game and feel like I'm actually "playing" it is to micromanage. I've tried being hands off and just acting as GM, and unforunately, the lack of ability to make isolated lineup moves that the AI won't go back and change after I'm done has killed my ability to play at the macro level, which is really what I wanted to do. It's either all or nothing with this game, which is too bad.

So, after 7 years of my Tigers career that began in 1946, I decided to learn from my mistake and took on an expansion team challenge, the 1962 Houston Colt 45s. Another thing killing my interest is the sign-and-release bug, as I targeted 10 FAs and had 8 of them repeatedly sign with another team and end up as FAs the next day, only to have me make round after round of offers, have them rejected (or completely ignored because of the bug, I can't tell which), then show up in FA, until finally, each one just stopped showing up in FA anymore. Extremely frustrating and a waste of my time. Anyway, playing hands on only got me to the trade deadline of 1962, and I've got an expansion team sitting in a tie for 1st at 61-43.

I'm having a hard time finding a balance between micromanaging and kicking the AI's ass, and macromanaging and feeling like I'm actually contributing to the success/failure of my team.

I'm going to kick myself if the AI screws with lineups and your team. Have you tried that workaround that worked before the patch?

If after my historical portion, the game is as tedius to play as the GM as you say, I think I'll be done with ootp and will load 6.5 back up once again for good.

[Ksyrup]

What's the work-around? I hadn't even gotten to really playing the game before the first patch, so it's likely I missed it entirely. Although, in bringing this issue up over at the OOTP boards, no one seems particularly concerned about it. I can't understand how people would enjoy/want to play out games in a career sim-oriented game based on a sport that has upwards of 180 games in a season. I can understand playing out a few here and there to get a flavor for the game and your team, but do people really play out the majority of their games AND make it through 10/20/50 years of history? From my experience playing arcade-style games, the best I could do in a game based on anything other than football was maybe 2 years, at tops. So the idea of a career sim seems at odds with being that hands-on. I've heard of free time, but that goes above and beyond anything I could commit to!

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Well, I've come to the conclusion that the only way I can play this game and feel like I'm actually "playing" it is to micromanage. I've tried being hands off and just acting as GM, and unforunately, the lack of ability to make isolated lineup moves that the AI won't go back and change after I'm done has killed my ability to play at the macro level, which is really what I wanted to do. It's either all or nothing with this game, which is too bad.

So, after 7 years of my Tigers career that began in 1946, I decided to learn from my mistake and took on an expansion team challenge, the 1962 Houston Colt 45s. Another thing killing my interest is the sign-and-release bug, as I targeted 10 FAs and had 8 of them repeatedly sign with another team and end up as FAs the next day, only to have me make round after round of offers, have them rejected (or completely ignored because of the bug, I can't tell which), then show up in FA, until finally, each one just stopped showing up in FA anymore. Extremely frustrating and a waste of my time. Anyway, playing hands on only got me to the trade deadline of 1962, and I've got an expansion team sitting in a tie for 1st at 61-43.

I'm having a hard time finding a balance between micromanaging and kicking the AI's ass, and macromanaging and feeling like I'm actually contributing to the success/failure of my team.

How deep are your minors? If your lowest level is set to no limit for the whole league, it should get rid of the sign and release bug. At least, it did for me.

[Ksyrup]

I've had varying problems with the limits. I have only one level - AAA. Right now, I have it set to 35, which is the recommended. However, in a previous league, where I set it to unlimited after having issues at 25 and then 35, I ran into a problem with the AI not signing enough players, or not signing enough of the types of players it needed. As a result, some of the AI major league teams only had 5 pitchers, some had no SP, etc.

Granted, this was my Federal League "experiment" where I had 2 leagues sharing the same pool of leftover FAs, so it's possible that caused part of the problem. But OTOH, there were plenty of players available, it's just that teams weren't picking them up.

Since this is a different setup, I guess I'll start another new league (again ) and see if it helps.

Do you find a big difference between having only 1 minor league versus 3 or more? Are you getting better results with multiple levels, or do you think 1 works just as well? I'm barely getting 20 players on my one minor league team, so I think having more than 1 is unnecessary, but if there's some reason I should have both a AAA and a AA or A, let me know.

[Young Drachma]

I think having more than one just slows the game down. But I have a MLB with 40 teams and for player development purposes I eventually add additional levels of minors since it's easier to sort players that way, etc., though most of the minor leagues are junk players and that's part of the reason I opt against having fewer ones.

I usually set my lowest league level to 'No Limit' and that helps things. If you have all sorts of extraneous foreign leagues in addition to your US leagues, then it might get things a bit slow and if you're a fast simmer like me, that gets old quick.

Are there players in the free agent pool and the AI just isn't signing anybody? Because that's weird if that's happening. Usually, I have to go and create more players if there aren't enough being spread through the league.

But I almost prefer that, because the AI doesn't exactly create enough prospects or even 'hidden gem' players to make things worthwhile and so, I just prefer to intervene.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

What's the work-around? I hadn't even gotten to really playing the game before the first patch, so it's likely I missed it entirely. Although, in bringing this issue up over at the OOTP boards, no one seems particularly concerned about it. I can't understand how people would enjoy/want to play out games in a career sim-oriented game based on a sport that has upwards of 180 games in a season. I can understand playing out a few here and there to get a flavor for the game and your team, but do people really play out the majority of their games AND make it through 10/20/50 years of history? From my experience playing arcade-style games, the best I could do in a game based on anything other than football was maybe 2 years, at tops. So the idea of a career sim seems at odds with being that hands-on. I've heard of free time, but that goes above and beyond anything I could commit to!

This is what Markus said before the patch came out:

It is indeed a bug. Do this for now:
1) Enable the commsih mode (manager options screen)
2) Go to your team home screen, then click the tab "Ballpark & options".
3) Check the box that says "Prevent AI roster moves"
4) Should you leave the team (fired, promotion), please uncheck that box again
That fixes your problem for now.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Are there players in the free agent pool and the AI just isn't signing anybody? Because that's weird if that's happening. Usually, I have to go and create more players if there aren't enough being spread through the league.

But I almost prefer that, because the AI doesn't exactly create enough prospects or even 'hidden gem' players to make things worthwhile and so, I just prefer to intervene.

In the Federal League universe I was referring to, I had the 16 (and then 20/24) MLB teams, plus 8 FL teams, each with a AAA team. During the 40s and 50s, when I started seeing the sign-and-release bug, some people over at the OOTP boards suggested I move my minor league roster limit from 25 to 35. I did that, and it really didn't help. Then someone suggested changing it to unlimited, which I did, and the sign-and-release went away, but the FL teams and their minors weren't signing anyone. So as I went into the 50s and 60s, I started noticing FL teams with guys pitching 460 innings and in 120+ games, because they had no pitching.

But that issue probably won't affect just an MLB universe, so I'll give it a try.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

This is what Markus said before the patch came out:

But will that prevent the AI from making any roster moves? I still want the AI to make most of the moves, I just don't want him changing the moves I've made. Basically, I want to do what I do in FOF. Say I've got a rookie QB or RB, or maybe a DB I want to play only in certain situations, I'll put them where I want them, check the freeze button, and then run the AI depth chart recommendations and go with it. That's basically what I want for OOTP - put a guy in the rotation, or make a certain guy the closer, or replace a slumping LF with a rookie, then let the AI manage the rest.

[Young Drachma]

I will say that I really like the fact that you now edit a player's history. It's a really, really handy tool.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I will say that I really like the fact that you now edit a player's history. It's a really, really handy tool.

What do you use that for?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

What do you use that for?

The game will automatically induct guys into the hall of fame just after they retire. Which isn't realistically. So I'll edit it and make it five years out or longer, if I induct them later.

In some cases, I do deals where there is a 'player to be named later' but the game doesn't recognize that obviously.

Other scenarios too.

[LionsFan10]

Okay, so my last question went un-answered, hopefully somebody will help me out here.

I turned off free agency when I began simming the history of my league, and now I want to turn it back on but I can't seem to figure out when to turn it back on. When will the options to turn on free agency not be greyed out, any particular month?

Any help would be great, thanks.

[Ksyrup]

Pre-season (usually around mid-February).

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

But will that prevent the AI from making any roster moves? I still want the AI to make most of the moves, I just don't want him changing the moves I've made. Basically, I want to do what I do in FOF. Say I've got a rookie QB or RB, or maybe a DB I want to play only in certain situations, I'll put them where I want them, check the freeze button, and then run the AI depth chart recommendations and go with it. That's basically what I want for OOTP - put a guy in the rotation, or make a certain guy the closer, or replace a slumping LF with a rookie, then let the AI manage the rest.

You're losing me here. When has that been possible? I have the CPU manage my minor leagues (as far as roster management goes - rotation, lineups, but I say what players are in the minors) -

I setup my rotation and lineups and then sim from there, only stopping when there is an injury or a week has passed to make minor adjustments. You can't "lock" a player in previous versions that I was aware of???

You can manually insert a new LF for a few games yourself, which is quite easy.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Pre-season (usually around mid-February).

Yep, try Feb 13th.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I can't understand how people would enjoy/want to play out games in a career sim-oriented game based on a sport that has upwards of 180 games in a season. I can understand playing out a few here and there to get a flavor for the game and your team, but do people really play out the majority of their games AND make it through 10/20/50 years of history? From my experience playing arcade-style games, the best I could do in a game based on anything other than football was maybe 2 years, at tops. So the idea of a career sim seems at odds with being that hands-on. I've heard of free time, but that goes above and beyond anything I could commit to!

Ah, but, unlike any other sports game I have ever owned, with oopt you can import your game into each new version.

With that capability I have played out every inning of every game in my oopt solo universe. Simming and looking at stats\standings etc does nothing for me. I have to be involved on a "daily" basis to be connected to my universe. My career started with the 2002 season in version 4 and is now at midseason 2014 in version 2007. I usually get in about three complete seasons per version playing from April 'til October. I am enjoying v2k7 enough that maybe ootp will finally become a year round thing for me which would probably make 6-7 seasons per version possible.

I do agree with your suggestion to be able to "lock" players where you want them ala fof. I requested this for version 2k6 while it was being developed figuring the fully functioning minor leagues would have issues. Obviously hasn't made it in but I am hoping for 2k8. I really don't know much about coding but I'm guessing locks are something that wouldn't be easy to add in a patch?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

You're losing me here. When has that been possible? I have the CPU manage my minor leagues (as far as roster management goes - rotation, lineups, but I say what players are in the minors) -

I setup my rotation and lineups and then sim from there, only stopping when there is an injury or a week has passed to make minor adjustments. You can't "lock" a player in previous versions that I was aware of???

You can manually insert a new LF for a few games yourself, which is quite easy.

That's what I'm saying...it's an issue as to how I'm able to play macro versus micro-managing my league. I want the AI to handle to most of the moves, but also not change moves I make. I'm trying to not have to stop every few days and make changes based on DTD or insignificant injuries. The game has never allowed locking of players, but it needs to. It looks like I'm going to have to fully micro-manage the league, setting lineups, etc. I didn't really want to do that, or at least not have to do it constantly when injuries and poor performance happen.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Ah, but, unlike any other sports game I have ever owned, with oopt you can import your game into each new version.

With that capability I have played out every inning of every game in my oopt solo universe. Simming and looking at stats\standings etc does nothing for me. I have to be involved on a "daily" basis to be connected to my universe. My career started with the 2002 season in version 4 and is now at midseason 2014 in version 2007. I usually get in about three complete seasons per version playing from April 'til October. I am enjoying v2k7 enough that maybe ootp will finally become a year round thing for me which would probably make 6-7 seasons per version possible.

I do agree with your suggestion to be able to "lock" players where you want them ala fof. I requested this for version 2k6 while it was being developed figuring the fully functioning minor leagues would have issues. Obviously hasn't made it in but I am hoping for 2k8. I really don't know much about coding but I'm guessing locks are something that wouldn't be easy to add in a patch?

Wow. That's a hell of a long-term commitment. I wouldn't feel like I was progressing enough if I played that slowly. But that time frame pretty much makes sense. I'd just feel like glaciers are moving faster than my game!

[path12]

I tried to download the trial version last night and couldn't get it started without the purchase screen coming up, so I bought the damn thing because I knew I was going to anyway.

Never played OOTP before. Messed around with a quick start for about 30 minutes. Truly lost, and I'm a FM veteran so the UI wasn't all that different. So my newbie question before I go into this thread in detail is this: Is the 500 page manual the way to go? What's the easiest way to understand this bad boy?

[Young Drachma]

If you've never played OOTP, getting into the manual is a wise idea. And stay away from the OOTP boards early on, they'll just confuse you with all of the inane ramblings.

The manual is a good start and from there..well, just do a quick start and see how it all works. It's really, really deep.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

If you've never played OOTP, getting into the manual is a wise idea. And stay away from the OOTP boards early on, they'll just confuse you with all of the inane ramblings.

The manual is a good start and from there..well, just do a quick start and see how it all works. It's really, really deep.

Thanks for the info. I'll start on it tonight. Should be ready to play by August sometime.....

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Wow. That's a hell of a long-term commitment. I wouldn't feel like I was progressing enough if I played that slowly. But that time frame pretty much makes sense. I'd just feel like glaciers are moving faster than my game!

Just the way I was brought up I guess. Started with Strat in the late 60's and of course had to play every game. Moved on and played some Earl, HH, and then Lance Haffner's Full Count Baseball. With that "training" it's the only way to play for me and really not much different than the old Strat days where I replayed the previous season with each new version. Except of course now my
world is no longer a replay but continues from summer to summer. Too me it's the Holy Grail

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Too me it's the Holy Grail

You are lucky because the SI design fits your play style. I think you are in the minority however of OOTP players.

[Young Drachma]

I like FaceGen, but I tell ya..it seems that every few universes I create I run across some sort of showstopping bug that makes the game freeze up and stop working and forces me to start over and over again.

It's probably one of those things that if I reported it, they'd have an impossible time trying to figure out what's doing it. I just know that it keeps happening at random times, over the past few times and it's pretty irritating.

I hope that next patch comes soon.

[Young Drachma]

Dola --

I've found that if you backup a league that ends up crashing at some point for one reason or another, that the backup files don't bring it back from the dead. However, saving it as a quickstart doesn't render all of your work useless and so, lucky for me that I managed to do that this time.

I'm not ruling out user error when it comes to some of the fail safes like saving more often, etc. But...otherwise, I dunno.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

You are lucky because the SI design fits your play style. I think you are in the minority however of OOTP players.

Yeah, it does fit what I do (I play fof, tpb, fbcb the same way) and I may be in the minority by playing every inning of every game. There have been polls done though and if you figure in the guys that play out 1 game from every series, the "important" games, or every game of the playoffs then things probably get a little closer to even.

I've read many of your criticisms of the game but not being a quick simmer I can't really comment on a lot of them. I do know from reading your posts though that I am not as picky (not meant in a bad way you are entitled to your opinion) about the game as you. I can look at things that I know bother you and say "it's just a game and a hell of a lot better than Strat or any other game I played in my youth", while the same issue might be a gamebreaker to you.

That being said I certainly don't think the game is perfect. I would love to see the transactions tightened up even more. I'd love to see the "lock button" ala FOF implemented which would help both quick and slow players, just to name a couple off the top of my head.

The game tries to do a lot of things for a lot of different playing styles. While it is probably it's greatest strength it may also be it's greatest weakness.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Sweed

The game tries to do a lot of things for a lot of different playing styles. While it is probably it's greatest strength it may also be it's greatest weakness.

That probably sums up OOTP in one sentence. FOF is a much tighter game because Jim has focused on only one way to play. Personally I'd trade the flexibility to tighten up the rest of OOTP but I imagine in this case I'm the minority.

There is just so much in OOTP that makes no sense. There is this huge minor league interface that creates so much work, and generates so much information and history, but:

A. Playing time seems to have no bearing on player development
B. Either the AI signs 100 players to your A ball team OR
C. The AI releases good prospects when you limit the rosters

What's more important? Having reams of useless statistics on thousands of players who never get out of A-ball or not having problem A, B & C?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

That's what I'm saying...it's an issue as to how I'm able to play macro versus micro-managing my league. I want the AI to handle to most of the moves, but also not change moves I make. I'm trying to not have to stop every few days and make changes based on DTD or insignificant injuries. The game has never allowed locking of players, but it needs to. It looks like I'm going to have to fully micro-manage the league, setting lineups, etc. I didn't really want to do that, or at least not have to do it constantly when injuries and poor performance happen.

Ok.. well, I'm not as worried then. I understand what you are saying now and that would be a good idea for a future patch.

[Young Drachma]

Overall, the game really caters to my style of play. I do think there could be reams of tightening up that could be done, that has been highlighted through this thread.

[Ksyrup]

I started over last night with the Expos in 1969. Taking DC's advice, I left the minors limit as "unlimited," and the first thing that struck me was how few FAs there were. For the beginning of the game, I really didn't like that, but as the years go by and the number of players in the universe increases, that should be less of a problem. And hey, if there are no FAs, there can be no sign-and-release problems, right?! One thing I meant to do but forgot was to check how many minor league players each team has. I'm hoping the AI didn't go overboard and sign dozens (well, maybe 2 dozen would be OK) for each team.

With just a couple of trades and basically using the roster that was imported (because there were so few FAs), I got my team out to a great start, and was actually a little worried that we were doing too well for an expansion team. I think at one point in mid-August, we were 67-50 and only a couple of games behind Pittsburgh for 1st place...and then I lost Rusty Staub, easily my best hitter, for 5 weeks, and my pitching, which had been way overachieving, fell apart, and I think we ended the season at 78-84. That's right - I believe we won only 11 of our last 45 games. But really, it made for a more believable year than competing for a playoff spot.

I'll tell ya, overall, I'm very pleased with how the game works, even with all of the issues we've found.