2015 NBA Offseason Thread

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Arles

Agreed. The only argument against it is if their non-guaranteed deals + 2016 first could have gotten a player that's a better fit. To be honest, I don't see that deal out there so I think Houston did well.

I also think Denver did quite well given the PR hit Lawson took after his latest issue. I don't think many people thought they could get a first and no bad contracts back for him. So, kudos to Denver as well.

If he's not fitting in, Lawson represents a nice contract that the Rockets can bundle with a few other players in order to get someone who will.

I also think the Cavs will end up signing JR Smith for a lot more money that people think that he's worth, if only so that he can be combined in order to trade for someone else.

[Groundhog]

I don't think JR really has any suitors left with cash. Trailblazers are really the only possibility, but given they are embarking on a youth movement I don't see it happening. Pacers wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole, and he would make zero sense for the Sixers.

Unless Cavs have a specific trade in mind, I think they should get him for around the 6 million mark.

[stevew]

Lemme put it this way, I doubt he loses any money by his opt out. His 2015-16 figure will be roughly the same anyways.

[Arles]

I also just read that Lawson agreed to make the final year of his existing contract non-guaranteed as part of the trade. If so, this becomes a windfall for Houston. Now, they can cut him for no cost after this season if he doesn't work out. Or (more likely) trade him as a very valuable piece in a bigger deal as a team looking for cap relief can get him back, release him and get a full cap savings.

With so many people trying to line up cap room for multiple max offers in two seasons, having the ability to bring in an $8 mil non-guaranteed salary is golden. If you are a team that can get two top tier players to commit in FA but need about $6-7 mil in space to make two max offers - what is that non-guaranteed contract worth to you? Two firsts? I'm guessing yes. Great move by Morey. There's a strong chance he gets a good season out of Lawson and then flips him for multiple picks or a pick and a solid player.

[murrayyyyy]

So the Pacers are scouting players named Chitwood for the future?

#HickoryPacers jerseys will be worn for select games starting in the 15-16 season: http://t.co/8M7DjI3iy8 pic.twitter.com/NEK0ymoIcC

— Indiana Pacers (@Pacers) July 21, 2015

[whomario]

I like the idea, but i still need to post a picture you missed:



Very considerate of George to go with the matching color up top

Originally Posted by nol

TJ Warren definitely falls in the same category of Kyle Anderson where I enjoy watching them play against inferior competition but wonder about how they'll do against actual NBA players. 2nd-year players who were 1st-round draft picks should be dominating in the summer league (after all, the best of them don't even play in it). For the Spurs, Jonathan Simmons was an unknown person I watched who definitely looked like an NBA player, so it wasn't like it was a Kyle Anderson one-man show.

I think that Kyle Andersons best shot is becoming a Diaw-type player. Easier said that done though ... He would be a really good fit in Europe if it doesnt pan out in the NBA.

[Groundhog]

Celtics 2015 2nd round pick Marcus 'no not the other Marcus' Thornton sounds like he's spending the season playing for my hometown Sydney Kings.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Arles

I also just read that Lawson agreed to make the final year of his existing contract non-guaranteed as part of the trade. If so, this becomes a windfall for Houston. Now, they can cut him for no cost after this season if he doesn't work out. Or (more likely) trade him as a very valuable piece in a bigger deal as a team looking for cap relief can get him back, release him and get a full cap savings.

With so many people trying to line up cap room for multiple max offers in two seasons, having the ability to bring in an $8 mil non-guaranteed salary is golden. If you are a team that can get two top tier players to commit in FA but need about $6-7 mil in space to make two max offers - what is that non-guaranteed contract worth to you? Two firsts? I'm guessing yes. Great move by Morey. There's a strong chance he gets a good season out of Lawson and then flips him for multiple picks or a pick and a solid player.

I'm sure there will be a quick exercise date so that if he is traded and cut, he can re-sign while there is still money out there.

[stevew]

I guess Richard Jefferson pulled a boozer/jordan and signed with the Cavs. I guess he's still a decent backup?

[Groundhog]

Cuban was quoted today as saying he gave everyone an out after Jordan backed out. Not sure what he'll have in the tank, but I suspect we'll have about 3/4 extra assistant coaches next season - Miller, Jones, Jefferson, and maybe the corpse of Haywood.

[stevew]

The NBA is offering single game telecasts for $7 next year and single team out of market season packages for $120. League pass will remain 199

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by stevew

The NBA is offering single game telecasts for $7 next year and single team out of market season packages for $120. League pass will remain 199

That's awesome! I hope other sports follow suit with single-game telecast options.

[Groundhog]

The Miami Heat trade GM LeBron's draft pick Napier to the Magic. I'm guessing for Miami it's a case of clearing out some salary and a logjam - plus Tyler Johnson has shown flashes in his minutes - but it's a good deal for Orlando. I'm not sure how sustainable it is having a PG who can't shoot, so Napier might find himself playing some big minutes in Orlando.

[stevew]

Mike Miller and Brendan Haywood to the Blazers along with a couple second rounders for nothing. Not a bad way to save some luxury tax money and I believe we open roughly a 10.5m exception and a 2.8ish one. I'm not sure if it creates a 13.3m one, I'll have to check.

[nol]

Originally Posted by stevew

Mike Miller and Brendan Haywood to the Blazers along with a couple second rounders for nothing. Not a bad way to save some luxury tax money and I believe we open roughly a 10.5m exception and a 2.8ish one. I'm not sure if it creates a 13.3m one, I'll have to check.

No, they've got to be used separately. Certainly a good enough move for both sides if Cleveland is waiting for the season to play out to see which players are available for the trade exception.

[Arles]

The move takes Cleveland's luxery tax from $30 mil to around zero. Could be key in finalizing deals with JR and Tristan.

[murrayyyyy]

Supposedly this clears the way for Dellavedova to sign a 1 year 1.2 million dollar deal.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Supposedly this clears the way for Dellavedova to sign a 1 year 1.2 million dollar deal.

They were liable to pay him that anyway, was the qualifying offer. Guess he is banking on getting at least some minutes and maybe getting a multi year contract somewhere next year.

Anybody in Cleveland make any remarks on why Thompson is still not signed ?

[Groundhog]

Haven't heard anything re: TT in awhile, but I think the Cavs offered less than max and there's no one left to force them to raise their asking price.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Arles

The move takes Cleveland's luxery tax from $30 mil to around zero. Could be key in finalizing deals with JR and Tristan.

Yeah, but they were never going to pay Haywood, so that figure is way off. I do think JR gets a decent deal and Tristan probably gets no more than 13.5 to start.

[BishopMVP]

No idea specifically on TT, but it could be agreed to in principle and just waiting for the right time to make it official. Celtics did this with the Jae Crowder signing/David Lee trades, and holding off allowed us to pick up a couple 2nd rounders, Perry Jones and Zoran Dragic for literally nothing.

Another interesting wrinkle is that Crowder's 5/$35m deal is as front-loaded as possible, with him making $8.2m this year and like $5.5m in year five. Add that to Isaiah Thomas's front loaded (and under market) deal and Amir Johnson/Jonas Jerebko/Jordan Mickey all agreeing to deals with non-guaranteed years and our flexibility is insane. Still waiting for Ainge to push some chips in, but he (and our cap guru) are doing amazing work at the margins to build assets and flexibility.

Curious what the outside perception of the Celtics is. If I had to guess over/under, I think Vegas would go like 41.5 wins, but I'd feel comfortable going 45.5 considering the conference.

[nol]

Whatever is good enough for 6th-7th in the East, which shouldn't be too different from what they did last year. Being in a worse conference puts a cap on the number of wins not only because Boston didn't improve a ton relative to most Western teams but because an East playoff team clinches earlier and is able to rest starters (the 4th seed in the East had a higher draft position than the 7th seed in the West this year).

I suppose if I'm less optimistic about Milwaukee this year (although Jared Dudley happened to have many of the same opinions when he was on the Zach Lowe podcast so maybe the Bucks actually will be perceived as a more or less .500 team) then Boston would probably be next in line to do better than expectations.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mike Scott of Atlanta Hawks arrested on felony drug charges

Complete with high speed chase in a rural county. I'm sure it was all just his brother's fault.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Celtics 2015 2nd round pick Marcus 'no not the other Marcus' Thornton sounds like he's spending the season playing for my hometown Sydney Kings.

Missed this. Not gonna lie, I'd never heard of him before the draft, but even as an overly optimistic homer I wasn't a fan. Freakish athlete, does have NBA size, but very raw and absolutely atrocious on D in the limited time I saw him play in Summer League. Not a perfect body type match, but his absolute NBA ceiling seemed to be bad D microwave scorer against bench units, a.k.a. Marcus "The One You Think Of" Thornton

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Missed this. Not gonna lie, I'd never heard of him before the draft, but even as an overly optimistic homer I wasn't a fan. Freakish athlete, does have NBA size, but very raw and absolutely atrocious on D in the limited time I saw him play in Summer League. Not a perfect body type match, but his absolute NBA ceiling seemed to be bad D microwave scorer against bench units, a.k.a. Marcus "The One You Think Of" Thornton

Yeah I went back and watched his summer league games, and I'd agree with your assessment. Our league isn't very 'up-and-down' - lots of halfcourt stuff - so I'm just hoping he can knock down the three and keep the other team from double-teaming Josh Childress every time he touches the ball like last season.

[murrayyyyy]

Adidas makes $200M bid to sign Houston Rockets star James Harden

So adidas doesn't want to make jerseys but is willing to drop 200 million just for Harden? Wow...

[stevew]

Cue the Harden foot/ankle/knee issues.

[miami_fan]

Dante Exum has a torn ACL.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13...-jazz-torn-acl

[Groundhog]

It was such a strange injury re: Exum - he gathered himself on two feet to pull up for the shot, and his knee just buckled on him - no contact at all.

Prognosis is good for a full recovery, but a 12 month recovery... good opportunity for him to work on his body and gain some strength.

[nol]

Sports Illustrated has gone pretty in-depth with their look at the top 100 NBA players going into the season. Draymond Green? Ranked 16th, just ahead of Kevin Love.

SI Top 100 NBA players of 2016: 30-11

[cmp]

Originally Posted by nol

Sports Illustrated has gone pretty in-depth with their look at the top 100 NBA players going into the season. Draymond Green? Ranked 16th, just ahead of Kevin Love.

SI Top 100 NBA players of 2016: 30-11

I definitely don't see it. Green's a very good all around player but 16th? Not a chance.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by nol

Sports Illustrated has gone pretty in-depth with their look at the top 100 NBA players going into the season. Draymond Green? Ranked 16th, just ahead of Kevin Love.

SI Top 100 NBA players of 2016: 30-11

Yeah, what cmp said. Even if we gave him the previous discussion's nod as a Top 30 player, Top 16 is crazy. Defense has now been talked about as an underrated quality so long, that it is now being overrated in compensation. Still need to be able to put the ball in the hoop.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yeah, what cmp said. Even if we gave him the previous discussion's nod as a Top 30 player, Top 16 is crazy. Defense has now been talked about as an underrated quality so long, that it is now being overrated in compensation. Still need to be able to put the ball in the hoop.

But even if you moved Green back that puts Kevin Love, another "just outside the top 30" player by your estimation, at number 16. Who are these 10-15 invisible players who were supposed to be better?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by nol

But even if you moved Green back that puts Kevin Love, another "just outside the top 30" player by your estimation, at number 16. Who are these 10-15 invisible players who were supposed to be better?

If there aren't 20-25 players who can be both effective scorers and defenders in the league, then it's not a league worth watching.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

If there aren't 20-25 players who can be both effective scorers and defenders in the league, then it's not a league worth watching.

Well, you've been erroneously watching the NBA for your entire life then. Every player has weaknesses.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by nol

Well, you've been erroneously watching the NBA for your entire life then. Every player has weaknesses.

Of course, every player has weaknesses. But I think there are enough players who are either great at defense/good at offense, or great at offense/good at defense, that a mediocre offensive performer like Green should not be the 16th overall player in the league.

[murrayyyyy]

must....stay....out.....of.....discus....

Screw it. There is no way in hell Draymond is 10 spots better than Klay. Klay shot 88% from the line and 44% from 3 last season and was 2nd in the lague in made 3's.

[Groundhog]

Green's effectiveness (right now anyway) is a bit too dependent on matchups for me to rank him so high. He's definitely slipped into the 'over-rated' category for my money. Very good player to have, but he's not a star player.

[Vince, Pt. II]

How is he dependent on matchups? His greatest strength is that he can guard nearly anyone.

If you want to knock him for being only average offensively, fine. And I agree that he's getting the benefit of being on an extremely talented team. But on a team with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson, do you really WANT Draymond to be scoring a ton?

Also, remember, we're not just talking about him as a "very good" defender. He is almost literally "the best defender in the league." There is a HUGE difference.

[AENeuman]

Not to brag... Ah who am I kidding... My wife is on a board with a warriors representative so I got to spend the evening with the trophy last night. There were only about 2 dozen of us, funny how we got bored with it pretty quickly.

[Vince, Pt. II]

That's pretty awesome. Did you get to touch it, it was it strictly looking only? I've always wondered how heavy those things are.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

That's pretty awesome. Did you get to touch it, it was it strictly looking only? I've always wondered how heavy those things are.

No Touching!...the representative had white gloves on. I did get to lean in and breath on it a little.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

How is he dependent on matchups? His greatest strength is that he can guard nearly anyone.

If you want to knock him for being only average offensively, fine. And I agree that he's getting the benefit of being on an extremely talented team. But on a team with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson, do you really WANT Draymond to be scoring a ton?

Also, remember, we're not just talking about him as a "very good" defender. He is almost literally "the best defender in the league." There is a HUGE difference.

I'm talking specifically about the offensive end when I say dependent on matchups. He is the most versatile defender in the league, certainly. I'd say Kawhi is neck and neck as far as 'best' goes. His offensive game is significantly behind his defensive game, which is fine in Golden State because like you say, they have Curry and Thompson. His role is to shoot open jumpers.

I'm not arguing that he's a not an excellent player - he definitely is, and there's not a team in the NBA that wouldn't want him in their starting 5. I just think he's being overrated because of how good the Warriors were last season.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'm talking specifically about the offensive end when I say dependent on matchups. He is the most versatile defender in the league, certainly. I'd say Kawhi is neck and neck as far as 'best' goes. His offensive game is significantly behind his defensive game, which is fine in Golden State because like you say, they have Curry and Thompson. His role is to shoot open jumpers.

I'm not arguing that he's a not an excellent player - he definitely is, and there's not a team in the NBA that wouldn't want him in their starting 5. I just think he's being overrated because of how good the Warriors were last season.

Specifically on the offensive end, the Warriors went from average to 2nd-best in the league (and I'm sure they were best over the first 3 quarters of games) and Green was the only rotation player whose minutes significantly increased from 2013-14. It's not like Steph Curry and Klay Thompson just took the exact same shots and made a ton more of them this season.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Also, remember, we're not just talking about him as a "very good" defender. He is almost literally "the best defender in the league." There is a HUGE difference.

that was my thinking too. I don't think it's unreasonable to have the top one or two defensive players in the top 20.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by nol

Specifically on the offensive end, the Warriors went from average to 2nd-best in the league (and I'm sure they were best over the first 3 quarters of games) and Green was the only rotation player whose minutes significantly increased from 2013-14. It's not like Steph Curry and Klay Thompson just took the exact same shots and made a ton more of them this season.

Sure, but there was also the matter of a pretty significant coaching change... I don't think you can understate that. The Warriors were a great combination of talent, depth, good coaching, and cohesion.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'm talking specifically about the offensive end when I say dependent on matchups. He is the most versatile defender in the league, certainly. I'd say Kawhi is neck and neck as far as 'best' goes. His offensive game is significantly behind his defensive game, which is fine in Golden State because like you say, they have Curry and Thompson. His role is to shoot open jumpers.

I'm not arguing that he's a not an excellent player - he definitely is, and there's not a team in the NBA that wouldn't want him in their starting 5. I just think he's being overrated because of how good the Warriors were last season.

The article actually does a great job of encapsulating Green's strengths on offense, which are easy to miss unless you watch a lot of Warriors basketball. I'll just copy and paste here:

Originally Posted by The SI Article

This very contention might seem insane to some. The one thing that Green doesn’t do well (score in volume) just so happens to be the one quality that has historically distinguished the NBA’s stars. Just last season, 120 NBA players scored more points per game than Green did. We’re here to tell you that it hardly matters. Some players get buckets. Green does damn near everything else, from setting physical screens to routing the offense with expert passing to playing elite defense across all positional lines. At the point that Green makes a profound difference for the Warriors and could do the same for any other team in the league, what does it matter that he shaves an opponent’s point total or bolsters a teammate’s rather than pad his own?

Green’s case is made in both the broad and the specific. In big-picture terms, he is one of the NBA’s very best defenders—a worthy (and perhaps disserviced) runner-up in the Defensive Player of the Year race and the captain of the league’s best defensive team. Those qualifications alone rocket him in our rankings. What Green offers a defense is more substantial and extraordinary than what many of the league’s leading scorers offer to their respective offenses. The nature of his defensive responsibilities, which far exceed his individual matchup, call him into action on sequence after sequence, helping and switching to fill even the slightest gap in coverage. No one in the NBA floats so smoothly from bodying bigs to restricting guards to boxing out whoever he must. That across-the-board suitability allows Green to streamline all forms of defensive exchange. Every offense in the league looks to force defenders to cover ground and make decisions. Green moves laterally as well as any big in the league and then eases the decision-making process by assuming whatever responsibility is necessary. It’s damn difficult, frankly, to even put Green in a bad spot.

The same kind of adaptability empowers Green on the other side of the ball. Strictly speaking, Green is a spot-up big; he flanks many plays by screening and setting up on the perimeter while Golden State’s guards put the ball into action. Most possessions that come to Green, however, are only beginning. The catch-and-shoot option is always on the table. But Green, never satisfied with merely a good look, more often puts the ball on the floor to prod the defense and see which teammates shake free. His poise alone is notable. Bigs forced to dribble into the next layer of defense will sometimes teeter from the self-fulfilling fear of losing control. Green always seems to have his wits about him and, for a player who winds up handling the ball and threading passes as often as he does, posts impressively modest turnover numbers.

It’s one thing for a big to pass from a standstill and quite another for them to shed a defender, floor the ball, and seek out opportunities to make plays. This is where Green thrives, and with him the Warriors offense. Green isn’t an especially dominant finisher or even all that consistent an outside shooter. What he brings is heady decision-making, activated by his handle, that is utterly specific to the moment in time. The only script exists between Green’s ears. – R.M.

Again, I don't think the article is trying to say that he's some kind of unspoken genius offensively. The idea is that he only appears to be mediocre-to-deficient offensively because he's on a team with the two best shooters on the planet. In actuality, he's a savvy offensive player who does most of his work in easy-to-miss ways. You combine that with his superlative defense, and you get a fantastic player who is one of the best in the entire league. Does that work on a team that doesn't have the amazing shooters on the outside? Probably not as well, no. But he's not on another team - he's on the Warriors. And there, he's one of the best players in the league.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Dola: and yes, I said 'almost literally' because Kawhi is amazing and deserves the credit he gets.

[whomario]

Pau Gasol just had one of the best games i have ever seen from a player, scored 40 in a 80-75 win against France (IN France !) in the Eurobasket semi final, facing some really good defense from Gobert and Diaw and often being doubled and pressured all the way to the 3 point line. (assist goes to France missing 6 FTs in the last 2 minutes of OT)

[Groundhog]

That driving dunk from Gasol... wow. He threw that one down on father time.