Werewolf LVI: Beneath the Iron Cross - GAME OVER, VILLAGERS WIN! - Page 19

path12 · 10-04-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Path can we explore Real a little while we're both around, since the other conversation has died. What is triggering your alarm bells? I'm having a hard time with him since I have these vague impressions from games past, but no real memories of him. So it's not a clean slate like with a newer player, but it's not really informed either. So, to be honest, I've been kind of ignoring any thoughts of him as a wolf and assuming him to be a villager and considering his analysis as such. Obviously you've seen something different. I'm curious as to what.

Sure. I don't have tons of evidence, I'm afraid.

I think we're at a tough part of this game. Most of the roles that die or scan as wolf are gone, we had villager/villager day 1 and a runaway day 3 so voting patterns aren't good either. I'm very glad Olie was able to give us the info she did, though I'm afraid she's most likely to die tonight.

So my approach is really trying to figure out who hoops might have chosen for his fellow wolves. And to me, RealDeal and jeheinz stand out as the perfect sort of players for hoops' style and philosophy. RendeR does to some extent, but not as much as the other two.

After posting that speculation, I wanted to see who would be the one to try and discredit it the most. Sure enough, RealDeal immediately pointed out that I wasn't excluding anyone, although I was more interested in a most to least sort of scale. There is also something about how far he is distancing himself from any of hoops mindfuck posts and trying to dismiss them all (as is Chief). In playing this game with hoops over all this time (and you longer than I), I think the chance is exactly zero that everything he said was BS.

So anyway, RealDeal and Chief are my top two suspects right now.

path12 · 10-04-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yeah. It sucks.

I'm gonna tie it up. Lets see what happens.

path12 · 10-04-2007, 08:09 PM

UNVOTE REALDEAL

VOTE RENDER

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

So my approach is really trying to figure out who hoops might have chosen for his fellow wolves. And to me, RealDeal and jeheinz stand out as the perfect sort of players for hoops' style and philosophy. RendeR does to some extent, but not as much as the other two.

This is what I talked about earlier also, Of the main suspects to have been chosen by hoopsguy to begin with, real Deal, jeheinz and myself are the only ones left.

RealDeal probably wouldn't come out and defend a lynch landslide vote on a villager (assuming he is the wolf) he might, assumin he'd earn some trust here, but even then, not as strongly as he came to my defense. So in effect, i don't think realDeal is the wolf.

Jeheinz on the other hand was adamantly trying to lynch me even before all this tripe from hoopsguy, why? gut feeling he says. You don't go that strongly after someone on gut feeling alone, unless of course you know they are a villager, in ihs case, being a wolf would do that. I highly suspect jeheinz and would support a vote move in that direction (noting that I really can't jeopardize myself in the process) but I will certainly follow others this way.

I am not a wolf, I've beaten this horse to death today and damn near some of you too

It bears repeating though, you cannot trust hoopsguys rantings. yes some of what he said might be true (he was honest about not picking barkeep) but that cetainly isn't a good reason to swallow the entire story from the condemned alpha wolf.

So there, I've put forth a name with some semblance of reasoning for his lynching, its no worse than the reasons people have for me or Antmeister.

Anyone willing to vote jeheinz and test the theory?

Barkeep49 · 10-04-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

So anyway, RealDeal and Chief are my top two suspects right now.

Yeah I'm not a big fan of CR's comments and am frustrated he hasn't been around more to offer more than what he did. He was pretty clearly on Render's side last night and I would be very curious to know how today's discussion has effected him, if at all.

Barkeep49 · 10-04-2007, 08:27 PM

Render -- I happen to agree with you about jeheinz, cold comfort I know. The problem is that you fit the same profile as him, and well hoops named you.

path12 · 10-04-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Render -- I happen to agree with you about jeheinz, cold comfort I know. The problem is that you fit the same profile as him, and well hoops named you.

True, and even though I think there's a decent chance you're not a wolf, I come back to the fact that you are the most likely person in that profile to have been scanned, and so most likely for at least someone to get information from on their lynch.

Barkeep49 · 10-04-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

True, and even though I think there's a decent chance you're not a wolf, I come back to the fact that you are the most likely person in that profile to have been scanned, and so most likely for at least someone to get information from on their lynch.

You quoted me there. Are you talking to Render?

path12 · 10-04-2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

You quoted me there. Are you talking to Render?

Yeah. Should have been clearer. Common problem for me.

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

dola, i am also thinking real hard about chief rum...to this point, he has barely said a word, which is contrary to his normal verbose behavior...i know he had the 2 job bit going on, but i thought that was just for monday and tuesday...not sure though because I also think he is too good a player to make such a drastic change in his posting pattern if he is a wolf.

You and Lathum, man. You guys must have sleepovers where you talk deep into the night about how suspicious I seem.

Seriously, though, I'll admit I have been out of it in this one. The busy first two days threw me off, and then last night was me being torn to watch a great personal sports night (Angels playoff game, Ducks road game), posting here on WW and getting much needed sleep to recover from a brutal stretch of work over the previous five days. I did a lot of the first, stopped in a bit for the second and then crashed for the rest. Now I am back tonight, and I am a bit more active and rested. So if you guys aren't lynching me as we speak, I should be able to contribute more.

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

True, and even though I think there's a decent chance you're not a wolf, I come back to the fact that you are the most likely person in that profile to have been scanned, and so most likely for at least someone to get information from on their lynch.

Not to offend, but haven't we noted the dead mark next to the seer? And if in fact the seer was alive and HAD scaned me, would they not find some way to move the vote off me? as I will always and forever be just a villager?

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You and Lathum, man. You guys must have sleepovers where you talk deep into the night about how suspicious I seem.

Seriously, though, I'll admit I have been out of it in this one. The busy first two days threw me off, and then last night was me being torn to watch a great personal sports night (Angels playoff game, Ducks road game), posting here on WW and getting much needed sleep to recover from a brutal stretch of work over the previous five days. I did a lot of the first, stopped in a bit for the second and then crashed for the rest. Now I am back tonight, and I am a bit more active and rested. So if you guys aren't lynching me as we speak, I should be able to contribute more.

move yer ass then, you got 5 minutes to deadline!

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 08:50 PM

Sorry, 10 according to the little corner clock on my posts.

Barkeep49 · 10-04-2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Not to offend, but haven't we noted the dead mark next to the seer? And if in fact the seer was alive and HAD scaned me, would they not find some way to move the vote off me? as I will always and forever be just a villager?

We don't know if that dead person was really the seer or really the fool. Both would show up as seer upon death according to how I remember the rules. And since others have been spouting the same canard I'd think it's true.

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

We don't know if that dead person was really the seer or really the fool. Both would show up as seer upon death according to how I remember the rules. And since others have been spouting the same canard I'd think it's true.

Again, not to play captain obvious, but in that situation wouldn't it be prudent to assume the seer is dead and act accoringly instead of sitting like lumps hoping they're living and just withholding information?

I've been playing under the assumption that there is no seer or fool for that matter, because to play otherwise forces you to second guess every possible direction in the hopes of some revelation.

If the seer WAS alinve and as you say, would have scaned me by now, they would have let it be known already.

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Wow. I wish I had been around more today.

Render: You said there was no reason for anyone to think you're a wolf except that hoops said so. You're right. There's not. Just as there was no reason for anyone to think hoops was a wolf except NTN said so. Fact is hoops did say so.

To me killing you is right in the same way that your killing me last game was the right decision (even though I was what I said I was). Having me around another day in the last game would have been a distraction. Having you around now is a distraction. I trust hoops to have played the game out the way he said he would. I would point out that according to game theory in a situation of repeated games players are more likely to be honest (I can explain this more if people don't understand).

So yes I'm going to vote for you. You're a distraction. If you're a villager, I'm sorry that hoops screwed you over. Vote him Day 1 for now until eternity. But if you're around, and a villager, it's going to be harder for us to focus on other people to find the wolves. Already your being around has forced ollie to do a reveal, and with the herbalist out of the way we might now lose any more information there.

I believe oliegirl, therefore I believe you are a villager.

That said, your stubborn willingness to go forward on not only a wolf's word, but a wolf like hoopsguy, makes me question your sanity and/or sobriety. Sorry, I can't believe a veteran like you would make a mistake like this. It's just shocking to me.

If I am wrong, I'll apologize up and down. But I am about as certain Render is a villager as I am hoops was a wolf.

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 08:56 PM

Outta time. Gotta vote. Anyone have a vote count.

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 08:57 PM

its a 5 -5 tie between ant and me

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yeah. It sucks.

I'm here. Chill out, everyone.

Antmeister · 10-04-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I believe oliegirl, therefore I believe you are a villager.

That said, your stubborn willingness to go forward on not only a wolf's word, but a wolf like hoopsguy, makes me question your sanity and/or sobriety. Sorry, I can't believe a veteran like you would make a mistake like this. It's just shocking to me.

If I am wrong, I'll apologize up and down. But I am about as certain Render is a villager as I am hoops was a wolf.

Great so just as I figured, Cheif Rum waits until the last minute and is going to vote a villager off (that would be me). Thanks.

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

its a 5 -5 tie between ant and me

Way to go, villagers. I don't think Antmeister is a wolf either. Who has the tiebreaker?

Barkeep49 · 10-04-2007, 08:58 PM

CR: Based on your comments you want to vote for Ant. You will be saving Render that way and causing us to go through this whole damn mess tomorrow.

path12 · 10-04-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

If the seer WAS alinve and as you say, would have scaned me by now, they would have let it be known already.

I don't think so if they didn't know if their scans were accurate or not.

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Great so just as I figured, Cheif Rum waits until the last minute and is going to vote a villager off (that would be me). Thanks.

Either way I go, I vote off a villager, it seems.

Barkeep49 · 10-04-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Way to go, villagers. I don't think Antmeister is a wolf either. Who has the tiebreaker?

Render loses tie break.

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 08:59 PM

Antmeister

Antmeister · 10-04-2007, 08:59 PM

Someone please save my ass!

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

CR: Based on your comments you want to vote for Ant. You will be saving Render that way and causing us to go through this whole damn mess tomorrow.

You're right. That won't help us. I am about to prove you have been arguing an awful argument all day.

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Render loses tie break.

Que? thats not what someone said earlier, but I'll have to trust you currently as time is all but up.

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 09:00 PM

VOTE RENDER

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 09:00 PM

You all suck as villagers. I can't believe you put any faith into what hoops said. Wolves, please kill me now and put me out of my misery.

Sorry Render.

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 09:02 PM

WTF?? You people better kiss my lilly white ass after that machine proves what morons you've been today.

God damn idjits.

I swear to god I will never let this be forgotten, EVER, you'll grow so sick of seeing "Oh look the wolf told them to, and they DID"

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 09:02 PM

And I suck, too. Maybe if I am able to be around more, I could have stopped this sooner. If Render is a wolf, I really got snowed.

Neon_Chaos · 10-04-2007, 09:03 PM

And that's it. Game Over.

Not.

Write-up following.

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 09:03 PM

Sorry, but I am just sick of this. I can understand blind votes, but BK you're about as bright as a burnt out lightbulb for following hoops like a love sick schoolgirl.

path12 · 10-04-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You all suck as villagers. I can't believe you put any faith into what hoops said. Wolves, please kill me now and put me out of my misery.

Gee, if only someone could have enlightened us.....

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 09:03 PM

Not funny Neon

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

WTF?? You people better kiss my lilly white ass after that machine proves what morons you've been today.

God damn idjits.

I swear to god I will never let this be forgotten, EVER, you'll grow so sick of seeing "Oh look the wolf told them to, and they DID"

Don't you see the writing on the wall, Render? This will just happen again tomorrow. I know it sucks. Been there myself. But you're going to have to take one for the team to get these stubborn fools off of you.

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

Gee, if only someone could have enlightened us.....

Umm, look up my posts yesterday. Yes, they were few, but they were quite to the point.

path12 · 10-04-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Don't you see the writing on the wall, Render? This will just happen again tomorrow. I know it sucks. Been there myself. But you're going to have to take one for the team to get these stubborn fools off of you.

We've all been there before, and I'm willing to bet that we've all called the rest of you goddamn idjits at one point or another. It's a fun game.

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 09:05 PM

I'll even help you out. Look around yesterday;s deadline, and the time leading up to it. That's when I was around. My very first post and at least one time after that, I spoke rather sternly about the idiocy of buying into anything hoops says at all.

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

We've all been there before, and I'm willing to bet that we've all called the rest of you goddamn idjits at one point or another. It's a fun game.

Yup, I have been called an idiot. And felt like an idiot. And been an idiot. Welcome to the WW Club, Render.

path12 · 10-04-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Umm, look up my posts yesterday. Yes, they were few, but they were quite to the point.

They were quite to the point, and frankly I'm amazed that you don't think that there are ANY clues in what hoops said. Yes, most of it was bullshit. But I'm convinced that when we look at it after the game that he mixed in good info with the BS.

Lorena · 10-04-2007, 09:07 PM

hurry the hell up dammit!!

Antmeister · 10-04-2007, 09:07 PM

Uh wow. I have no idea how this will turn out, but I really hope more than anything that at least he has an Unholy Mark. This is freaking nuts.

RendeR · 10-04-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

Gee, if only someone could have enlightened us.....

people tried to, all fracking day, but the only one anyone listened to was HOOPS.

Sorry, no sympathy for shoddy play.

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Sorry, but I am just sick of this. I can understand blind votes, but BK you're about as bright as a burnt out lightbulb for following hoops like a love sick schoolgirl.

I agree his thinking here is extremely confusing. That said, BK is regularly one of the most innovative WW thinkers on this board, so I don't think he deserves more commentary than that. And if he's right, I will bow to his greatness.

path12 · 10-04-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Uh wow. I have no idea how this will turn out, but I really hope more than anything that at least he has an Unholy Mark. This is freaking nuts.

I bet he's innocent. But as soon as hoops named him he was going to have to go at some point. Might as well get it out of the way early while we've got numbers on our side.

hoopsguy · 10-04-2007, 09:09 PM

???

Game doesn't end with RendeR as the lynch?

(GASP)

Chief Rum · 10-04-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

They were quite to the point, and frankly I'm amazed that you don't think that there are ANY clues in what hoops said. Yes, most of it was bullshit. But I'm convinced that when we look at it after the game that he mixed in good info with the BS.

And the info that was good was the obvious "Render is a wolf"? Glad you guys picked that winner out from all the other good clues he dropped. He was real subtle with it.

10-04-2007, 08:09 PM	#903
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	UNVOTE REALDEAL VOTE RENDER __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

10-04-2007, 08:50 PM	#913
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Sorry, 10 according to the little corner clock on my posts. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

10-04-2007, 08:57 PM	#918
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	its a 5 -5 tie between ant and me __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

10-04-2007, 08:59 PM	#926
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Antmeister __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

10-04-2007, 08:59 PM	#927
Antmeister Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue	Someone please save my ass! __________________ "I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew

10-04-2007, 08:27 PM	#906
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Render -- I happen to agree with you about jeheinz, cold comfort I know. The problem is that you fit the same profile as him, and well hoops named you.

10-04-2007, 08:56 PM	#917
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Outta time. Gotta vote. Anyone have a vote count.

10-04-2007, 08:58 PM	#922
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	CR: Based on your comments you want to vote for Ant. You will be saving Render that way and causing us to go through this whole damn mess tomorrow.

10-04-2007, 09:00 PM	#930
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	VOTE RENDER

10-04-2007, 09:00 PM	#931
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	You all suck as villagers. I can't believe you put any faith into what hoops said. Wolves, please kill me now and put me out of my misery. Sorry Render.

10-04-2007, 09:02 PM	#932
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	WTF?? You people better kiss my lilly white ass after that machine proves what morons you've been today. God damn idjits. I swear to god I will never let this be forgotten, EVER, you'll grow so sick of seeing "Oh look the wolf told them to, and they DID" __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

10-04-2007, 09:02 PM	#933
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	And I suck, too. Maybe if I am able to be around more, I could have stopped this sooner. If Render is a wolf, I really got snowed.

10-04-2007, 09:03 PM	#934
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	And that's it. Game Over. Not. Write-up following. __________________ Come and see.

10-04-2007, 09:03 PM	#935
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Sorry, but I am just sick of this. I can understand blind votes, but BK you're about as bright as a burnt out lightbulb for following hoops like a love sick schoolgirl. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

10-04-2007, 09:03 PM	#937
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Not funny Neon __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

10-04-2007, 09:05 PM	#941
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I'll even help you out. Look around yesterday;s deadline, and the time leading up to it. That's when I was around. My very first post and at least one time after that, I spoke rather sternly about the idiocy of buying into anything hoops says at all.

10-04-2007, 09:07 PM	#944
Lorena Unregistered Join Date: May 2004	hurry the hell up dammit!!

10-04-2007, 09:07 PM	#945
Antmeister Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue	Uh wow. I have no idea how this will turn out, but I really hope more than anything that at least he has an Unholy Mark. This is freaking nuts. __________________ "I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew

10-04-2007, 09:09 PM	#949
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	??? Game doesn't end with RendeR as the lynch? (GASP)

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