FOFC Literature Draft - Picks Thread

[NoMyths]

*looks around the digital room we're all communicating in, all of which was predicted, shaped and encouraged by Neuromancer, and whistles as he walks away*

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

No, I got the order mixed up. Somewhere in there is a wtf for androids or something.

Boo! You don't like my scifi/fantasy pick?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Oh, and World of Warcraft/Second Life? Yep, all sprung in various forms from Neuromancer -- philosophically, at least.

Would you agree that Tolkien probably spawned more alternate universes than any other writer?

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Would you agree that Tolkien probably spawned more alternate universes than any other writer?

In literature? Nope. I'd name at least one or two books which haven't been drafted yet that I'd point to before Tolkien. I mean heck -- swords and sorcery were around for a long time before he took his (admittedly great) whacks.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

In literature? Nope. I'd name at least one or two books which haven't been drafted yet that I'd point to before Tolkien. I mean heck -- swords and sorcery were around for a long time before he took his (admittedly great) whacks.

I know one of the books you are thinking of but I don't think it was expansive or as well-crafted as ME.

[ThunderingHERD]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I know one of the books you are thinking of but I don't think it was expansive or as well-crafted as ME.

How well-crafted are you?

[NoMyths]

hahahahaha

Vote = ThunderingHERD

[Buccaneer]

Ok, fine. Lol.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Izulde, you're thinking elitist again. 1. Probably no child in America has heard of it. 2. They didn't make a popular movie from it. 3. It's French.

Yep. I have no clue what this is.

Originally Posted by NoMyths

I'd argue that Neuromancer is at least its equal, and more so with most techies. Most of our ideas about online culture were shaped by the novel -- I mean, heck, Gibson invented the term cyberspace with it. Dramatically important book, and one that was critically hailed as well -- Time listed it as one of the 100 most important books of the last century, for example. Changed the direction of hard science fiction and led directly to things like The Matrix.

Well, what I meant was that he implied Frankenstein was a "wtf" compared to Neuromancer being "great".

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Oh, and World of Warcraft/Second Life? Yep, all sprung in various forms from Neuromancer -- philosophically, at least.

Second Life was a direct creation based on another book that I won't mention until the draft is over. It could be said that it was inspired by Neuromancer, but it was a direct copy of a world in another book.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Izulde, you're thinking elitist again. 1. Probably no child in America has heard of it. 2. They didn't make a popular movie from it. 3. It's French.

I'm having a hard time understanding the scoring scheme here. According to this logic if this were a painters draft thomas kinkade would beat nearly everyone.

is this what books are popular (or are still popular) in our american culture?

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Second Life was a direct creation based on another book that I won't mention until the draft is over. It could be said that it was inspired by Neuromancer, but it was a direct copy of a world in another book.

I'm pretty sure I know the book to which you refer, and am absolutely certain it was influenced by Gibson's work, and in particular Neuromancer.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

I'm having a hard time understanding the scoring scheme here. According to this logic if this were a painters draft thomas kinkade would beat nearly everyone.

is this what books are popular (or are still popular) in our american culture?

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it actually make a noise?

You're selecting what will make the "best team" when the voting occurs. If none (most) of the voters haven't heard of it, then, no, it's not a very good selection. How can you possibly score something well that you've never even heard of? Are you just supposed to say "Well, it's French, and people say it's good, it must be an awesome pick."?

Originally Posted by NoMyths

I'm pretty sure I know the book to which you refer, and am absolutely certain it was influenced by Gibson's work, and in particular Neuromancer.

Right. But Second Life is directly and deliberately crafted after that book. That's like saying that WoW was created because of LOTR. (well, maybe a little less indirect than that )

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Calis

Btw, Romance of the Three Kingdoms is the book I was alluding to early, which I'm sure was obvious enough in itself.

I think it's a great pick, one of the greatest pieces of literature in the history of the world, one of the most widely read and the cultural influences in the East is immeasurable.

That said, I didn't think it would go over that hot over here..it's just not that popular, which is a shame. So maybe a bad pick in a popularity contest catering to the voters here.

Great pick imo though, and a steal this late.

ditto. I know my other pick would have gone over better likely, and tbh I was equally as happy with it, but I was being stubborn. When I do my post-draft explanation of my team i'll make my case for "Romance." But really, how can you say that one of the books considered to be one of the 4 classics of chinese literature (which has a longer history than western civilization period) is not great literature? especially when you consider that it's 120 chapters and 800,000 words?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

I'm having a hard time understanding the scoring scheme here. According to this logic if this were a painters draft thomas kinkade would beat nearly everyone.

is this what books are popular (or are still popular) in our american culture?

bro, just anticipating how a sizable voting population will vote (as evidence by previous drafts). One can play this solely to make a good personal list, or to prove how many English Lit classes one has taken, or to pander to the voters. There 10 categories and 10 participants. You and I can come up with 100 great books that are both popular/recognizable and good literature. Some of the picks here are one but not the other and they, among some voters, will not score as well as those choosing both.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay...so i'm not up or anything?

[st.cronin]

I believe Axxon is up.

[Radii]

Hm I'll follow bucc and sab here with my leaders in each category:

Fiction: Maple Leafs (larrymcg421 2nd)
Short Story: Chief Rum (cartman second I guess, all the rest are pretty close together to me)
Poem: Warhammer (NoMyths/larrymcg tied for 2nd)
Fantasy/Sci Fi: cartman (st cronin 2nd)
Series: Cartman (Axxon 2nd)
Sports: Warhammer (cartman 2nd)
Childrens: Maple Leafs (DaddyTorgo 2nd)
Non-Fiction: Izulde (NoMyths 2nd)
Bio/Autobio: larrymcg (NoMyths 2nd)
History: St Cronin (Maple Leafs 2nd)


there are a few categories here where I really don't think there are any bad picks, or where its really hard to blow people away with a great pick but possible to screw up w/ a bad pick. The poem category I think is a good example of this. Warhammer is an easy first in my eyes, and the great works by Dante and Milton that have held up for centuries stand out a bit, but all the picks are good quality picks and the rest aren't *that* far behind.

[MrDNA]

Fantasy/Sci-Fi stands out to me as a category in which no one has screwed up. That probably says a lot about the demographic on this - and all - internet boards

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer;1669482You and I can come up with 100 great books that are [I

both[/i] popular/recognizable and good literature. Some of the picks here are one but not the other and they, among some voters, will not score as well as those choosing both.

ok, got it. seems there is a tension here between the author who wrote about a topic very successfully and the first author who wrote well on the topic and inspired all the rest.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

ok, got it. seems there is a tension here between the author who wrote about a topic very successfully and the first author who wrote well on the topic and inspired all the rest.

But that is also up to the person who makes the list to give the reason why. That is part of the reason why I have been giving reasons for all my picks.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

ok, got it. seems there is a tension here between the author who wrote about a topic very successfully and the first author who wrote well on the topic and inspired all the rest.

Huh?

[Axxon]

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem - The Canterbury Tales - Jeoffrey Chaucer
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's -
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

This classic collection of tales are fun to read and quite varied. Definitely ahead of his time and they still hold up and have been told countless times.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Axxon

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem - The Canterbury Tales - Jeoffrey Chaucer
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's -
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

This classic collection of tales are fun to read and quite varied. Definitely ahead of his time and they still hold up and have been told countless times.

This was my third choice after my first in Poetry. My second is actually still out there.

[Axxon]

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's - 8,1 Where the Sidewalk Ends - Shel Silverstein
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

Probably the best poet of our time, Shel wrote poems for both kids and adults and Where the Sidewalk Ends is one that's made for kids and equally enjoyed by adults. Everybody finds something to enjoy when reading Shel Silverstein and he certainly fits with his peers in this category.

[sabotai]

The Canterbury Tales was one of the poems I was thinking about earlier (the one I'd rank higher is still out there). Nice pick.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Izulde, you're thinking elitist again. 1. Probably no child in America has heard of it. 2. They didn't make a popular movie from it. 3. It's French.

Really? I read it when I was a kid, like maybe 7 or 8 and I know a lot of other Americans who read it when they were kids, too.

[Izulde]

1. Fiction - 2.2 Lolita - Vladimir Nabokov
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem - 1.9 "The Waste Land" - T.S. Eliot
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction - A Game of Thrones - George R.R. Martin
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) - 3.9 The Musketeers Saga - The Three Musketeers, Twenty Years After, Le Vicomte de Bragelonne, Louise de la Valliere, The Man in the Iron Mask - Alexandre Dumas
6. Sport Related - 5.9 North Dallas Forty - Peter Gent
7. Children's - 7.9 The Little Prince - Antonie de Sainte Expury
8. Non-Fiction - 4.2 The Art of War - Sun Tzu
9. Biography/Autobiography - 6.2. Night - Elie Wiesel
10. History

There are few contemporary sci-fi or fantasy books that fall into the realm of literature, but A Game of Thrones certainly qualifies. Epic in scope, with brilliant characters and a crackling political storyline, it stands among the titans of the fantasy genre despite its relative newness.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Axxon

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's - 8,1 Where the Sidewalk Ends - Shel Silverstein
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

Probably the best poet of our time, Shel wrote poems for both kids and adults and Where the Sidewalk Ends is one that's made for kids and equally enjoyed by adults. Everybody finds something to enjoy when reading Shel Silverstein and he certainly fits with his peers in this category.

Dang it! I was going to use The Giving Tree!

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Axxon

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem - The Canterbury Tales - Jeoffrey Chaucer
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's -
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

This classic collection of tales are fun to read and quite varied. Definitely ahead of his time and they still hold up and have been told countless times.

Terrific pick. I considered this one as well.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Axxon

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's - 8,1 Where the Sidewalk Ends - Shel Silverstein
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

Probably the best poet of our time, Shel wrote poems for both kids and adults and Where the Sidewalk Ends is one that's made for kids and equally enjoyed by adults. Everybody finds something to enjoy when reading Shel Silverstein and he certainly fits with his peers in this category.

This is another one I considered for this category, but didn't want to overload on poetry, if that makes any sense.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Izulde

1. Fiction - 2.2 Lolita - Vladimir Nabokov
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem - 1.9 "The Waste Land" - T.S. Eliot
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction - A Game of Thrones - George R.R. Martin
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) - 3.9 The Musketeers Saga - The Three Musketeers, Twenty Years After, Le Vicomte de Bragelonne, Louise de la Valliere, The Man in the Iron Mask - Alexandre Dumas
6. Sport Related - 5.9 North Dallas Forty - Peter Gent
7. Children's - 7.9 The Little Prince - Antonie de Sainte Expury
8. Non-Fiction - 4.2 The Art of War - Sun Tzu
9. Biography/Autobiography - 6.2. Night - Elie Wiesel
10. History

There are few contemporary sci-fi or fantasy books that fall into the realm of literature, but A Game of Thrones certainly qualifies. Epic in scope, with brilliant characters and a crackling political storyline, it stands among the titans of the fantasy genre despite its relative newness.

Hmm, I feel that no one book from this series is a good pick, because it is a never ending story. Plot points are wrapped, but usually far more have been opened up (thus the frustration with Martin's glacial pace of writing). This would have been better as a series, but tough to take there, too, because it is incomplete.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Izulde, you're thinking elitist again. 1. Probably no child in America has heard of it. 2. They didn't make a popular movie from it. 3. It's French.

SO with Bucc here - and I know Children's lit pretty well living with a Kindergarten teacher who majored in reading for her Master's degree.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by wade moore

SO with Bucc here - and I know Children's lit pretty well living with a Kindergarten teacher who majored in reading for her Master's degree.

Wait a sec...you can major in reading? Shit, I knew I missed my calling.

[Izulde]

Well looks like I blew the Children's Lit pick, then. I seriously thought lots of people had read The Little Prince as kids.

[timmynausea]

A Song of Ice and Fire definitely would've been stronger as a series pick, and if I had to single one out, I think I would've gone for A Storm of Swords. In any case, I'm a big GRRM fan, so even with the previous complaints that pick scores big points with me.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Hmm, I feel that no one book from this series is a good pick, because it is a never ending story. Plot points are wrapped, but usually far more have been opened up (thus the frustration with Martin's glacial pace of writing). This would have been better as a series, but tough to take there, too, because it is incomplete.

I was going to post the same thing before you did. This is one of very few series for me that I think is HURT by taking one book rather than the series. This isn't like Dune or Ender's game where the 1st book holds up on it's own and is dramatically better than the rest - you really can't hold up Game of Thrones as an individual work imo.

And with that being said - the Storm of Swords may have been my top choice for series with only a possible negative being that it is not done.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wait a sec...you can major in reading? Shit, I knew I missed my calling.

Hah. Reading Education to become a Reading Specialist.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Well looks like I blew the Children's Lit pick, then. I seriously thought lots of people had read The Little Prince as kids.

I'll ask her about it tomorrow and maybe she knows, but in the literally 100's of childrens' book in this house I have never seen that book.

[Izulde]

Darn and here I thought they were good picks.

FWIW, when taking one book from a series, I generally take the first one by default, because it's the one that sets up the story and action... and later books may not be fully understood without the context of that first book.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Well looks like I blew the Children's Lit pick, then. I seriously thought lots of people had read The Little Prince as kids.

You have to stop thinking that your childhood and college years were like anyone else.

[st.cronin]

I've read The Little Prince, didn't think it was any good.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

You have to stop thinking that your childhood and college years were like anyone else.

I think that Izulde should be required to wear a wristband with this quote.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'll ask her about it tomorrow and maybe she knows, but in the literally 100's of childrens' book in this house I have never seen that book.

Same here. Must have read or was read 100+ books as a child, then into the 70s with my youngest brother and then the 90s with my son.

[MrDNA]

FYI: The Canterbury Tales can suck it.

Nice pick, tho.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I've read The Little Prince, didn't think it was any good.

I want to add to this that I don't think its as bad a pick as the vocal peanut gallery is saying.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by MrDNA

FYI: The Canterbury Tales can suck it.

Nice pick, tho.

LOL

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Probably the best poet of our time [...]

...except for not being anywhere close to it.

He is a very popular children's poet, though, that's for certain.

[Lathum]

The little prince is OK but my #1 childrens book is still around.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The little prince is OK but my #1 childrens book is still around.

Mine is too, but objectively it may be more a personal pick vs. a great all-around pick (although certainly no slouch).

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

You have to stop thinking that your childhood and college years were like anyone else.

Touche`!

I guess I should've gone with one of my other picks for Children's Lit, then. One in particular I really wish I'd have taken instead now, as it's one of my favorites... and now that I'm re-reading The Little Prince... it really isn't as good as I remember it.

Oh well, live and learn.