NFL "Teams Behaving Badly" Thread: 2015

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Please. Unless the texts were all faked, you'd have to be a complete & utter moron to believe anything other than Brady was behind the cheat (not to mention to believe that a lowlife like BB was completely unaware). And you have no sports ethics whatsoever if you want that bastard on the field any time soon.

That is, quite possibly, the dirtiest franchise in sports today & one of the dirtiest of all-time. There's no rational, logical or justifiable reason I can find for anyone outside of a local homer to hold them in anything but contempt.

And it's a sorry commentary on the state of society that anyone backs them at this point, regardless of location.

Far be it from me to ever defend Brady, The Hoodie, or The Pats but if the standard is:
"Well it's possible and more likely than not (51%) that balls were underinflated, and its possible but totally unsure (50%) if the underinflation was the result of a deliberate act, but we know Brady likes underinflated balls so let's hang him even though there is ZERO evidence he had any role in making it happen if it happened"

Thats a pretty alarming ruling.

It would be like arresting Jon for murder everytime a liberal has a heart attack whether they survive or not.

[EagleFan]

Please explain the texts in any context that makes Brady innocent...

[molson]

I don't understand how the texts are evidence of guilt at all, I think there's other stuff that makes Brady look worse.

But the texts just show that Brady prefers deflated balls and wants his staff to adjust the balls to his specifications. That's not against the rules. The teams have custody of their own balls before the game and allowed to do what they want with them. Brady was accused of directing the staff to tamper with the balls in the period after they go to the NFL officials for inspection, and after the balls are returned to the team shortly before the game. (i.e., the infamous 2 minutes in the bathroom with the balls.)

Edit: In one of the texts, the guy is pissed that the refs "fucked" them and inflated the ball. That's actually pretty strong evidence of innocence. That indicates that their job was to deflate the balls, get them just right for Brady, and then submit them for inspection, at which point the refs haphazardly pumped them back up (as we saw them doing in that NFL films documentary about the day in a life of a ref). So the ball staff thought that they submitted a deflated (but still conforming) ball for inspection, and that the refs just inflated it anyway because nobody paid attention to this stuff until sometime in early 2015 when it became the biggest news story in NFL and FOFC history.

[cartman]

The matter before the court isn't whether Brady is guilty or not. What the judge has to rule on is to invalidate the arbitration ruling that Goodell made. Courts have been very hesitant to overrule arbitration matters. There is a shit pile of case history supporting arbitration. The biggest roadblock for Brady and his attorneys in getting the arbitration ruling overturned is that in the last CBA the NFL and NFLPA explicitly agreed to let Goodell be an arbitrator. No matter how unfair that might seem, that is a huge legal roadblock to get around.

[molson]

I still think the suspension will be affirmed, I was responding to this sentiment expressed by a couple of posters here about what the texts prove. But that ship has largely sailed for Brady. (Either because of terrible strategy from people around him, or the NFL had already made up their mind day 1.)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Please explain the texts in any context that makes Brady innocent...

The texts prove that Brady wanted the balls deflated to a point. There's zero evidence that he asked for them below 12.5psi (and zero evidence in the texts that he was asking them to be lowered to exactly 12.5). I believe the only time PSI is mentioned is when talking about how the refs had them blown up above 16 (and the league maximum) during that Jets game.

I'd argue that the fact Brady had the ball boys printing out the NFL rulebook text, highlighting the 12.5 to whatever (15.5?) PSI guidelines, and asked them to hand it to the refs when they were checking the Patriots balls, indicates that he wanted them AT 12.5. But I'll concede there really is no proof of that either. However, the NFL is the accuser here - there's no reason the burden of proof should be on the accused.

Originally Posted by cartman

The matter before the court isn't whether Brady is guilty or not. What the judge has to rule on is to invalidate the arbitration ruling that Goodell made. Courts have been very hesitant to overrule arbitration matters. There is a shit pile of case history supporting arbitration. The biggest roadblock for Brady and his attorneys in getting the arbitration ruling overturned is that in the last CBA the NFL and NFLPA explicitly agreed to let Goodell be an arbitrator. No matter how unfair that might seem, that is a huge legal roadblock to get around.

I agree that Berman does not want to go against past case law or set precedent, but I really don't see him affirming the NFL's decision either. Like he said, even if something was collectively bargained you can't go against American laws. Either there's an independent investigation or it's run by the league. If an NFL employee got to read and edit the Wells Report before it was released then he needs to be available for cross-examination during the appeal. There should be some good faith bargaining on both sides. That's why I think Berman is strongly pushing behind the scenes for a settlement that ends with Brady taking a hit for failure to cooperate, and when the NFL wouldn't even give a counter offer why Berman has been so harsh on them in open court.

I mean, we have Bountygate, where it was proven that the Saints players were doing it with ledgers, bank transfers, and statements, and still everything was vacated (after Tagliabue was brought in to save face) because the judge ruled the NFL bungled the process so badly.

[Logan]

I took him in my fantasy auction last night sooooooooo #FreeBrady!!!

[albionmoonlight]

I think that the judge thinks that the NFL screwed up, but would really rather not issue a federal order getting in the middle of a CBA dispute. Which is why he is pushing so hard for a settlement.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I think that the NFL would do better saving face here instead of risking the precedent of the federal courts overturning its internal discipline.

[miked]

I think, at least from the coverage so far, that it's pretty clear it will be reduced in some capacity (based on other recent cases). I just don't understand what is in it for the NFL? If they had just offered 2 games for failure to cooperate, it could all be over. They reduced Hardy's suspension by 60%, they let that drunk driving Cowboys guy back. I don't understand why they are so willing to go down with the ship when there are so many teams doing things on the edge for competitive advantages.

[Logan]

I thought we were down to the judge either leaving it at 4 or making it 0, and the only middle would come from a possible settlement which appears to be out at this point.

[mckerney]

Brady is free, judge Berman has overturned his suspension.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Brady is free, judge Berman has overturned his suspension.

Damn. We had a fantasy draft tonight and I planned on trying to nab him before the ruling at a super low price.

Wonder if ESPN will cover this at all?

[Subby]

Judge Ruins Jimmy Garropolo’s Day

— Lindsey Adler (@Lahlahlindsey) September 3, 2015

[Subby]

And Goodell make's more money off ratings for these games because his superstar is back #yougotplayed https://t.co/5geL9lvXRl

— PFTCommenter (@PFTCommenter) September 3, 2015

[Subby]

The NFL has now gotten its ass kicked in federal court three times in less than a calendar year.

— Adam Kilgore (@AdamKilgoreWP) September 3, 2015

[Subby]

Tom Brady gets the news about his suspension being overruled. pic.twitter.com/CkqDSJu5Of

— Jody Genessy (@DJJazzyJody) September 3, 2015

[cuervo72]

Ok, seriously FrogMan - you don't have to like EVERY SINGLE NEWS OUTLET on this one. Totally slamming my FB feed, man!

[cuervo72]

dola - seriously, you'd think this was Mandela or something.


BRADY FREED!

[molson]

Hahahahaha.

That's a nice start to the day. Goodell should outsource discipline, he has no credibility left.

Edit: And there's still the draft picks and the fines. Kraft made a tactical error in not fighting those, but it will be awkward for the league again when the draft comes around and this all comes up again. Of course, the NFL might appeal this and we'll be still be hearing about it for months and months to come.

Here's the order. The issue wasn't even just the lack of evidence. The league's procedure was just so wonky in terms of being unclear what exactly Brady was even suspended for, denying the Brady team access to the evidence, just kind of mix-and-matching various disciplinary procedures that are used in steroids cases, etc.

http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/cases/s...special&id=484

[albionmoonlight]

Ponderous miscalculation by the NFL. The judge did everything short of wearing a t-shirt with "I am going to vacate the suspension; you might want to consider offering Brady a face-saving settlement" to court.

[miked]

Right, I still don't know why the NFL had to make a stand on this one. It was clear the judge from day 1 was leaning against the NFL. I know the CBA says Goodell can serve as arbitrator, but I wonder if he will anymore. Every time he rules in his own favor, somebody will take them to court. Just outsource!

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Ok, seriously FrogMan - you don't have to like EVERY SINGLE NEWS OUTLET on this one. Totally slamming my FB feed, man!

Originally Posted by cuervo72

dola - seriously, you'd think this was Mandela or something.


BRADY FREED!

LMAO!

As if the case hadn't already been made, Goodell should probably step down. He's clearly making this feel like an ego trip gone bad. And that of all people, he is the one trying to be above the game.

[jeff061]

Now I can go back to trying to show New England the light. That is Brady has had about 1 good game in a half decade and the last 2 years he's become adept at making the few interceptions he throws be of the soul crushing, back breaking and game ending variety.

He's in his own head to much. Hopefully all this BS is distracting him from that.

[jeff061]

Also, would the NFL really appeal it? This entire thing has been so drawn out and painful, making everyone but especially the NFL look foolish, why would they draw it out further? Even if they won I don't think they save much face, not enough to eclipse another 8 months or whatever of BS.

So I've been assuming they wouldn't, am I off base? I honestly don't care which way they rule, I just want to put this crap behind us. The loss of draft pick is the one that hurts and that's not changing.

[molson]

Well, they did refuse to settle despite all signs being that they'd go down in flames here, and with reports that Brady was willing to take some kind of punishment. I could them digging in their heels further here, as the losses pile up.

[mckerney]

It would be pretty stupid for the NFL to appeal, but with Goodell at the helm that doesn't really rule out then doing so.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

LMAO!

As if the case hadn't already been made, Goodell should probably step down. He's clearly making this feel like an ego trip gone bad. And that of all people, he is the one trying to be above the game.

I assume that the owners love him. As long as the public directs all their ire at Goodell, they are not directing it at the owners. The preferred public solution to every problem the NFL faces, from PEDs, to domestic abuse, to concussions, to on-field discipline, is not "fix the problem," it's "FIRE GOODELL!"

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by molson

Well, they did refuse to settle despite all signs being that they'd go down in flames here, and with reports that Brady was willing to take some kind of punishment. I could them digging in their heels further here, as the losses pile up.

My view was that Goodell placed value on the owner's perception of him for not capitulating, more than his desire to see Brady suspended for even 1 game. Same reason they didn't drop a game or 2 as part of initial appeal. Now they can drop it and say "I didn't budge off of what I thought was right, but at this time is makes the most sense to close this and move on".

I hope at least.

[NobodyHere]

This really lowers my enthusiasm for the NFL.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

This really lowers my enthusiasm for the NFL.

Why?

While I think Brady had something to do with what happened with the footballs, you can't just go around arbitrarily suspending a player without direct evidence. Equipment violations have only ever been a fine. There was no reason to set such a precedence here.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by molson

Hahahahaha.

That's a nice start to the day. Goodell should outsource discipline, he has no credibility left.

Edit: And there's still the draft picks and the fines. Kraft made a tactical error in not fighting those, but it will be awkward for the league again when the draft comes around and this all comes up again. Of course, the NFL might appeal this and we'll be still be hearing about it for months and months to come.

Here's the order. The issue wasn't even just the lack of evidence. The league's procedure was just so wonky in terms of being unclear what exactly Brady was even suspended for, denying the Brady team access to the evidence, just kind of mix-and-matching various disciplinary procedures that are used in steroids cases, etc.

http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/cases/s...special&id=484

I am pretty sure we had a thread around here somewhere that discussed a commissioner not being in charge of discipline in their particular sport. I don't remember if it was specifically football but the consensus was against any outsourcing. I wonder if this ruling changes this perception across sports, just for football or just for Goodell.

[NobodyHere]

Incompetent management?
Cheating players?
Taxpayer built stadiums to support billionaires?

The Brady issue is really the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I really can't muster any enthusiasm for the NFL at this point.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Also, would the NFL really appeal it? This entire thing has been so drawn out and painful, making everyone but especially the NFL look foolish, why would they draw it out further? Even if they won I don't think they save much face, not enough to eclipse another 8 months or whatever of BS.

So I've been assuming they wouldn't, am I off base? I honestly don't care which way they rule, I just want to put this crap behind us. The loss of draft pick is the one that hurts and that's not changing.

The NFL loves drama and an appeal would keep people talking about it for an eternity. Goodell has turned the NFL into America's favorite soap opera.

[Grover]

Understandable, but none of the three things you listed are now just rearing their head. They've been around forever and in most sports other than the NFL.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Grover

Understandable, but none of the three things you listed are now just rearing their head. They've been around forever and in most sports other than the NFL.

Like I said, camel's back and everything. The integrity of the game has been shot in my eyes.

ETA: If it ever had any

[molson]

I like how the order pointed out that the NFL has never before attempted to punish someone for being "generally aware" of someone else's wrongdoing. (And even that was only found on a "more likely than not" standard, with no evidence to support it).

[Chief Rum]

I am laughing at the NFL. They couldn't have handled this worse.

[stevew]

It's hilarious to see the Rog lose again

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by stevew

It's hilarious to see the Rog lose again

You'll get to see it again again soon. NFL just announced that it is appealing.

[jeff061]

Why.

Why, why....why. What is there to be gained for them.

[albionmoonlight]

There are ways to expedite an appeal, but I don't see how any appeal would be resolved before the end of the season. Appeals take time. Federal appeals take even longer.

Of course, the court will do what the court will do, and the Second Circuit can always put it on an uber fast track. But, in a normal case, if you filed notice of appeal in early September, you are not getting an answer back from the court by the Super Bowl.

[albionmoonlight]

Conor Orr on Twitter: "Statement from Roger Goodell. NFL will appeal. http://t.co/MgMDCsdjMH"

[Logan]

Goodell is going to end up getting a raise out of this.

[Kodos]

Goodell really does need to go.

[Logan]

Bill Simmons has a month left on his old ESPN contract. I'm sure it's more complicated than this, but, assuming he was pulling in $5MM, if it meant paying back the $400+K he is still owed I'm pretty sure he would do one independent podcast if he could.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Now I can go back to trying to show New England the light. That is Brady has had about 1 good game in a half decade and the last 2 years he's become adept at making the few interceptions he throws be of the soul crushing, back breaking and game ending variety.

He's in his own head to much. Hopefully all this BS is distracting him from that.

Is this sarcasm? Even though his game has slipped some he's a fringe top 5 QB. And he was the clear #1 in DVOA as recently as 2012 but our defense sucked. Plus there's an added value in having the face of your franchise and Starting QB be the first one in the door and the hardest worker instead of asking guys to follow someone who "sleeps through their alarm clock" or regularly makes headlines for partying.

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I assume that the owners love him. As long as the public directs all their ire at Goodell, they are not directing it at the owners. The preferred public solution to every problem the NFL faces, from PEDs, to domestic abuse, to concussions, to on-field discipline, is not "fix the problem," it's "FIRE GOODELL!"

I've said that for awhile, but I really don't understand why they don't announce some minor change to their disciplinary process and go get a new stooge at this point. For what they're paying I'll even do it...

If you're wondering why they're suing, it's partially pride and partially because as embarrassing as this is, every minute spent talking about this is a minute not spent talking about the movie coming out about concussions where the NFL asked them to remove scenes, or about denying Seau's daughter the chance to talk at his HoF induction, or about how known wife-beaters like Greg Hardy and Terrell Suggs are still allowed on the field.

[MizzouRah]

I have Manning and Brady in my FFL - oh baby!

[miami_fan]

Meanwhile...

Wife of Redskins GM Tweets About “BJ’s” to ESPN Reporter, Deletes Her Account [UPDATE] | The Big Lead

[BishopMVP]

Greg Hardy considering an appeal of his four-game suspension | ProFootballTalk

[albionmoonlight]

All players: Pay attention to what's transpired. Respect Brady for his fortitude. And appreciate your Union's focus on fairness & process.

— Scott Fujita (@sfujita55) September 3, 2015

No need to gloat or rub in anyone's face. It's abt PROCESS, & it matters. Here's hoping there can be a JOINT effort to improve this PROCESS.

— Scott Fujita (@sfujita55) September 3, 2015

So many lessons over these past few years. Hopefully something's been learned, by players & league alike. Let's just do better.

— Scott Fujita (@sfujita55) September 3, 2015

Fujita is one of the most articulate and insightful former players out there. The more I hear from him, the more I like.