Werewolf LXXV - Rise of the Great Old Ones -Students Win!!!!

[hoopsguy]

What if racer is the seer and both alan and hoops are wolves?

If Racer, as the seer, distrusts me then he scans me tonight. That one is easy.

[oliegirl]

Alright...at least for now, I'm willing to give Hoops the benefit of the doubt and vote for Alan. It's still early so if things change in the next 8 hours and 56 minutes, I'll be moving my vote...

VOTE ALAN T

[Passacaglia]

EF, I'm pretty sure Neon_Chaos's most recent game featured a wolf that was revealed as villager on death, yet scanned as a wolf. Just FYI.

[hoopsguy]

No offense, but there are a large number of villagers out there who seem to be afraid to commit on this vote. I understand asking questions, working through your process, etc. But the longer this gets dragged out, the more emboldened the wolves are going to get that they can get Alan off the hook today.

I've been the one counter-punching on this stuff enough times to know how it works. The action up to this point is decidedly anti-village, and it clearly isn't just the wolves who are creating the situation.

If I'm being aggressive here, it is because I know how this works in WW. Even when you have a wolf dead to rights, with two players vouching for it, it isn't always enough against a persuasive player with sufficient time on his hands to defend himself. Alan is going to continue to deflect and deny all day long. He'll build on theories that you concoct for him.

This just makes it harder to make the right call, which is why I'm continuing to raise the fundamental point of "him or me". Pick a lane, own your decision, hopefully we are around to celebrate our good fortune together at the deadline.

[Telle]

The more I see the back-and-forth between Alan and hoops the more I worry about the wolf-vs-wolf scenario. Thus, in order to avoid potentially putting a wolf into a CoT I'm going to go with voting hoops.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[EagleFan]

thx hoops, that clears that question up for me. Still a lot more to consider.

I still don't discount the possibility that you are both wolves.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Eagle, I'm just surprised it took Alan as long as it did to make the "I can't be killed at night" claim. I'm not shocked by the claim.

Again, fundamental question - do you believe Alan or me? Make up your minds and vote accordingly. Everything else is sleight of hand.

Once again, you are trying to muddy up the waters. I said from the start what happened. My initial post of the morning explains that I was attacked, by some form of attack that I still don't really quite understand from my PM. I was in mental angush and all I know is that it was Racer attacking me.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well, not even sure how to respond to this other than say it is false. Unfortunately for me a challenge like this is pretty tough to defend against. I'm a wolf just because Hoops says so?

I did have something pretty odd that I received a PM about last night, and to no suprise it came from the person who was probably one of my most distrusted people on my list. I assume it was some form of mental attack that I fought off. Oddly enough, it wasn't Hoopsguy who did it, but instead it was Racer. My PM said that he knows that I knew he tried to invade my thoughts as well.

So hoopsguy, would you like to explain how Racer comes after me and then suddenly you know I am a wolf? Was this an attempt to try to discredit me before I released my information this morning to try to buy more time for Racer? I'm not sure what you gain from this move as the obvious play today would be for people to lynch me, find out that I am good and then kill you and Racer in order. Unless you have some other mechanism that I am unaware of in place, this doesn't seem like a break even play for you.

So color me very intrigued.

This isn't just something that I threw out there once it became convienant like you have been doing with your stories this morning.

[hoopsguy]

Path, when I'm the one that is pointed to as a wolf you are 100% consistent in voting for me. You vouch for the "first to reveal = truth", and then test it later. What is different this time around for you? The fact that Alan has suggested you and he were on the same wavelength early in this game?

I'm inclined to think you are a villager, since Alan wouldn't cozy up to another wolf in the thread. But I'm perplexed that it is taking you this long to work through this vote.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Once again, you are trying to muddy up the waters. I said from the start what happened. My initial post of the morning explains that I was attacked, by some form of attack that I still don't really quite understand from my PM. I was in mental angush and all I know is that it was Racer attacking me.

This isn't just something that I threw out there once it became convienant like you have been doing with your stories this morning.

So your blood is on the floor from Racer's mental attack? Does that make any sense in Cthulhu-land?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So your blood is on the floor from Racer's mental attack? Does that make any sense in Cthulhu-land?

I don't know anything about this theme so you are asking the wrong person. I was told in my PM that Racer attacked me, I was in mental anguish and I fought him off. My PM said nothing about you, nothing about blood or anything else. I have to assume that there wasn't more than one night kill attempt though on the same night.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If Racer, as the seer, distrusts me then he scans me tonight. That one is easy.

not if alan is the brutal.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Telle

The more I see the back-and-forth between Alan and hoops the more I worry about the wolf-vs-wolf scenario. Thus, in order to avoid potentially putting a wolf into a CoT I'm going to go with voting hoops.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

Telle, I considered that too, but I'd be surprised if that was the case this early in the game. I've seen it happen before, but it's usually an act of desperation by the wolves after the villagers have gone on a run and nailed a couple wolves in 2 or 3 days.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

But the longer this gets dragged out, the more emboldened the wolves are going to get that they can get Alan off the hook today.

Isn't that a good thing?

[hoopsguy]

Right, there was a night kill attempt and the seer scanned you. No blood from that action.

Perhaps some of the others who know more about the theme (I'm not one of them) can comment on the likelihood that Alan would bleed when mentally "attacked". I don't see this as all that important (he was scanned, not attacked), although Alan is now co-opting the blood to support his version of the events so I would like it dismissed if it helps others make the right call.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Telle, I considered that too, but I'd be surprised if that was the case this early in the game. I've seen it happen before, but it's usually an act of desperation by the wolves after the villagers have gone on a run and nailed a couple wolves in 2 or 3 days.

I just don't get a good vibe off of either of them at this point. And I'm thinking better-safe-than-sorry. So lynch hoops today and Alan tomorrow no matter how hoops turns out.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Isn't that a good thing?

Depends on the ultimate result, I suppose. It is entirely not a good thing if Alan survives and the seer is lynched.

With Alan outed he will be the wolf who takes any potential risks this evening. So we almost certainly lose out on the opportunity to find a wolf with a bodyguard block or any other night actions that might benefit the village.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Telle, I considered that too, but I'd be surprised if that was the case this early in the game. I've seen it happen before, but it's usually an act of desperation by the wolves after the villagers have gone on a run and nailed a couple wolves in 2 or 3 days.

If the wolves know that Racer scanned Alan as a wolf, I could see it: Hoops comes out against Alan, with the knowledge that Racer is the seer.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Right, there was a night kill attempt and the seer scanned you. No blood from that action.

Perhaps some of the others who know more about the theme (I'm not one of them) can comment on the likelihood that Alan would bleed when mentally "attacked". I don't see this as all that important (he was scanned, not attacked), although Alan is now co-opting the blood to support his version of the events so I would like it dismissed if it helps others make the right call.

Don't think that I don't know what you are trying to get me to do here. You know as well as I do where this conversation path is going. You want me to say , "Well then if there was another night attack blocked, someone just come out and say so!" to which you would reply in saying ,"See Alan wants us to try to out the bodyguard in addition to the seer!!" followed by a bunch of emotional votes that didn't actually see you attempt to set me up here..

No actually what is happening here is Hoopsguy desperately wants to know who the bodyguard is because they'll know damn well that they didn't block an attack and they'll believe my story and vote with me.. So just be careful with when and where you place your votes, I can gurantuee you that Hoopsguy is trying to figure that out as well today. He knows the bodyguard wasn't involved last night just like I do and Hoopsguy and Racer know.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

not if alan is the brutal.

Nope. If Alan is lynched as the brutal and takes out Racer then you have to figure out how to interpret me the rest of the way. Again, just like the cunning wolf we are talking about something that is a relatively low likelihood.

Any lynch that involves Alan today is going to be a net good for the village/students, no matter what wolf abilities he may or may not have.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Depends on the ultimate result, I suppose. It is entirely not a good thing if Alan survives and the seer is lynched.

With Alan outed he will be the wolf who takes any potential risks this evening. So we almost certainly lose out on the opportunity to find a wolf with a bodyguard block or any other night actions that might benefit the village.

I can gurantuee you that if somehow I survive this frame job, tonight I'll be sitting in my home by myself. There is a role supposedly that can follow someone, and they are more than welcome to try to follow me tonight as well if they really want to even. I would rather them try to find a wolf, but as a good guy I'm obviously not going to be wandering about at night. (just like I wasn't last night)

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Right, there was a night kill attempt and the seer scanned you. No blood from that action.

Perhaps some of the others who know more about the theme (I'm not one of them) can comment on the likelihood that Alan would bleed when mentally "attacked". I don't see this as all that important (he was scanned, not attacked), although Alan is now co-opting the blood to support his version of the events so I would like it dismissed if it helps others make the right call.

If there was a night kill attempt why hasn't someone come out ans claimed it? That person and the wolves most likely already know about this. That would seem like the easiest arguement for a slam dunk vote.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

If the wolves know that Racer scanned Alan as a wolf, I could see it: Hoops comes out against Alan, with the knowledge that Racer is the seer.

Yep, but the seer is left alive to scan me tonight. Unless you guys pick the wrong person between me and Alan, and we brutal the seer.

This is an overly complicated scenario, given the position the wolves are in to start the game. And it is 100% wrong.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I can gurantuee you that if somehow I survive this frame job, tonight I'll be sitting in my home by myself. There is a role supposedly that can follow someone, and they are more than welcome to try to follow me tonight as well if they really want to even. I would rather them try to find a wolf, but as a good guy I'm obviously not going to be wandering about at night. (just like I wasn't last night)

At least I assume that is what the private eye does. I guess I might be wrong on that assumption though.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

If there was a night kill attempt why hasn't someone come out ans claimed it? That person and the wolves most likely already know about this. That would seem like the easiest arguement for a slam dunk vote.

Don't fall into Hoops' trap here. He is trying to out the bodyguard with this line of thinking. The bodyguard was not involved last night, I know it, Racer and Hoops and the rest of the wolves know it, the bodyguard knows it.. I am afraid Hoopsguy will figure out who the bodyguard is if they don't finesse their vote just right.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Yep, but the seer is left alive to scan me tonight. Unless you guys pick the wrong person between me and Alan, and we brutal the seer.

This is an overly complicated scenario, given the position the wolves are in to start the game. And it is 100% wrong.

Did you just admit to being a wolf here??

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

If there was a night kill attempt why hasn't someone come out ans claimed it? That person and the wolves most likely already know about this. That would seem like the easiest arguement for a slam dunk vote.

If the question is directed at me - since I'm quoted I'll answer - then I'll tell you that I have no idea what happened with the kill attempt last night. I do know that Racer scanned Alan, who showed up as a wolf.

I really wish there was a soothsayer role in this game - and hoping that one of the good guy roles might have this power. Alan's posts are chock full of BS.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Yep, but the seer is left alive to scan me tonight. Unless you guys pick the wrong person between me and Alan, and we brutal the seer.

This is an overly complicated scenario, given the position the wolves are in to start the game. And it is 100% wrong.

Is there a reason Racer isn't saying anything now?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Nope. If Alan is lynched as the brutal and takes out Racer then you have to figure out how to interpret me the rest of the way. Again, just like the cunning wolf we are talking about something that is a relatively low likelihood.

Any lynch that involves Alan today is going to be a net good for the village/students, no matter what wolf abilities he may or may not have.

How is this a low likelihood? There is a brutal every game and this would be a good play to go for the throat by the wolves (pun intended). That way they have one furball in the CoT and accomplish their goal.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Did you just admit to being a wolf here??

No - I'm refuting the scenario where you and I are co-wolves conspiring.

Seriously, you really are playing a desperate game right now.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Is there a reason Racer isn't saying anything now?

Not that I know of - I would be happy to have him support my claims.

Seriously, Pass - two people are saying Alan is a wolf and you think I'm the right vote for today?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

If the wolves know that Racer scanned Alan as a wolf, I could see it: Hoops comes out against Alan, with the knowledge that Racer is the seer.

As I said before, I can see that scenario as well. I think the safe approach is to lynch AlanT and ask Racer to scan Hoops tonight (and ask the bodyguard to protect Racer). If somehow Racer is killed without scanning Hoops, we may have to go ahead and lynch Hoops just in case. I don't want a CoT to form with him in it.

Because I ultimately don't trust Hoops' supposed special role at this point. I'd love to hear Racer chime in on what he knows (if anything) about Hoops' role.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

My thought is that same as yours, Alan. Voting hoops seems like the best play.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

Huh. I didn't see that coming.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

No - I'm refuting the scenario where you and I are co-wolves conspiring.

Seriously, you really are playing a desperate game right now.

I've been pretty much playing a desperate game all morning. How else am I supposed to respond to a frame job set up before i even get on the forum? Everyone knows that the first person out attacking usually gets the benefit of the doubt, so from the get go I had an uphill battle. Right now only myself, you Racer and whomever your fellow wolves are know the truth. The bodyguard probably can assume some things as well. Everyone else is stuck trying to figure out who to believe and you have the edge because you were ready after night results to strike.

I'm just looking for any thing you say right now that I can poke a hole in so others will be able to try to discern the truth.

[Racer]

Just caught up on the posts. I'll go ahead and confirm I'm the seer (back to back games ). My course of study is Paranormal Science so I would avoid any sort of study reveal since that sort of hints I'm the seer. Like Hoopsguy said, I scanned Render night one and he turned up good and scanned Alan T night two and he turned up bad. Judging from the PM I got, I am also positive that Alan T knew what I was up to last night. I also 100% trust Hoopsguy at this point based on what he has revealed that he knows and what role I knew was in the game.

[Alan T]

Now I know how Rocky felt in Rocky IV. I feel like I am training in Siberia for my match vs Ivan Drago (Hoopsguy)

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Not that I know of - I would be happy to have him support my claims.

Seriously, Pass - two people are saying Alan is a wolf and you think I'm the right vote for today?

Hey, you've got no one to blame but yourself for that! It was you that brought up the cunning wolf idea, which got me paranoid! I figure this way, we don't risk losing the seer. What's wrong with that play?

[hoopsguy]

How could the bodyguard assume things if you can't be nightkilled?

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Path, when I'm the one that is pointed to as a wolf you are 100% consistent in voting for me. You vouch for the "first to reveal = truth", and then test it later. What is different this time around for you? The fact that Alan has suggested you and he were on the same wavelength early in this game?

I'm inclined to think you are a villager, since Alan wouldn't cozy up to another wolf in the thread. But I'm perplexed that it is taking you this long to work through this vote.

Did you mean Pass? I haven't voted yet.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

How could the bodyguard assume things if you can't be nightkilled?

If they wern't any part of the attack last night, they would know there is some other role out there that had the ability in order to be the explanation for the blood. At this point though, I really would prefer if the bodyguard just vote for me to try to hide your vote and not be too exposed for Hoopsguy and his fellow wolves to guess who the bodyguard is.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

Did you mean Pass? I haven't voted yet.

Oh, did he? I thought he meant you -- I didn't see how what he was saying applied to me.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Racer

Just caught up on the posts. I'll go ahead and confirm I'm the seer (back to back games ). My course of study is Paranormal Science so I would avoid any sort of study reveal since that sort of hints I'm the seer. Like Hoopsguy said, I scanned Render night one and he turned up good and scanned Alan T night two and he turned up bad. Judging from the PM I got, I am also positive that Alan T knew what I was up to last night. I also 100% trust Hoopsguy at this point based on what he has revealed that he knows and what role I knew was in the game.

Good to hear it from the horse's mouth. I feel really good about my vote (on AlanT) now.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Hey, you've got no one to blame but yourself for that! It was you that brought up the cunning wolf idea, which got me paranoid! I figure this way, we don't risk losing the seer. What's wrong with that play?

Pass, I've got no problem with it if it is just a ploy of yours to create action on the vote. However, I think you know the two participants in this debate well enough to sort this out.

As I mentioned earlier, voting me out today means that you lose a day on getting a wolf. I think it hampers our ability to get another wolf tonight because Alan will be out and about (despite what he claims) because it is the right move for the wolves ... if I die a villager then he is a dead wolf walking the next day. So the seer is likely the only role who has a chance to net a new wolf.

[KWhit]

I'll have to give it to Alan, though. He's made the past couple of hours interesting. Guys (and gals), vote for Alan. It's clear he's lying. Then we need to figure out if we can trust Hoops or not.

[hoopsguy]

That said, at least you aren't voting for Racer when the clear dispute is me vs Alan. So your vote isn't the one I hate the most at the moment. That would be RendeR's, who is know is a good guy to boot.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

I'm heading to work shortly and unfortunately won't be back in time for the vote and subsequent lynching tonight. I felt it was imperative to tell everyone what I saw the last two nights while you guys were sleeping in the library.

I have always been the adventurous type and don't scare easy. After we mistakenly lynched two of our own and the wolves killed one of us as well, I knew I couldn't sit back and do nothing.

At night I have been following a different person to see what they are up to in the dark of night. As a new member of our group, I wanted to be able to trust the one that seemed to have an established role of leadership. I chose to follow Alan more in a way to rule him out than catch him at anything sinister.

Our first night together I saw Alan in a corner of the library in some kind of meditative state and he was chanting in a low voice words I did not understand. A shiver went down my spine as I backed away. I don't know what Alan's intentions are or whom he serves, but it did not feel right. I had not mentioned it before because I feared bringing attention to myself before I knew more.

Chief said yesterday that I'm climbing on his list of suspects and I've noticed an uneasiness from some others as well. The majority seem to suspect EagleFan and PurdeuBrad so I decided since it may be my last night I would follow EF. I was scared, but for the good of the group I pressed on. I followed him in the night and saw him attack Telle, slitting her throat. I thought she was dead. He rummaged through her bag and I saw him pull out an old tattered book. He opened the book and began to recite some kind of incantation. A green light swirled around and her body lifted from the ground. Beware, I believe she has become one of them.

My curious nature would like to follow some more, but I know that with this reveal they will surely come for me next.

My vote for tonight's lynching was going to be EagleFan, though as I said in a previous post I believe that there may be one person that these wolves serve and from what I've seen so far, it may be Alan. I don't have time to get caught up on all the discussion that's happened this morning already, but I already see that Alan is on the radar of some so I'll go with him today instead.

If they don't get me tonight we can get EF and Telle and pray that is all of them.

VOTE ALAN T

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Now I know how Rocky felt in Rocky IV. I feel like I am training in Siberia for my match vs Ivan Drago (Hoopsguy)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I'll have to give it to Alan, though. He's made the past couple of hours interesting. Guys (and gals), vote for Alan. It's clear he's lying. Then we need to figure out if we can trust Hoops or not.

What have I said that was a lie? I've been pretty much straight forward with what I have said all morning. Like I said from the beginning, I don't mind if people vote for me as a net plus play in a logical progression, I probably would do the same thing if I didn't have any other information on anyone.. but to say I'm lying is pretty incorrect.

I think the most important question after today will be why Hoopsguy was trying to cover up for Racer.

[path12]

I have to say that I don't know whether or not I'm getting dumber or just older, but these three page statement parsing arguments just start blurring together for me.

What I was going to say was that we needed Racer to step up here and clarify his role. He has now done so.

VOTE ALAN T

I don't see any advantage or reason for two wolves to have to come out in order to get Alan killed -- especially this early in the game. I'm really surprised why anyone would go anywhere else right now. This tells us more than anything else IMO.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Pass, I've got no problem with it if it is just a ploy of yours to create action on the vote. However, I think you know the two participants in this debate well enough to sort this out.

As I mentioned earlier, voting me out today means that you lose a day on getting a wolf. I think it hampers our ability to get another wolf tonight because Alan will be out and about (despite what he claims) because it is the right move for the wolves ... if I die a villager then he is a dead wolf walking the next day. So the seer is likely the only role who has a chance to net a new wolf.

I don't know about any ploy -- it's just like I've said, I want to make sure we don't lose the seer. If Alan is the brutal, we lose him either way, but if Alan is a wolf that turns up villager on death, then there's a good chance we lynch Racer. This is all IF you're telling the truth. If you're not telling the truth, voting for you gets us a wolf. It just seems like a good play from all angles.

[hoopsguy]

Heh - I'm flattered to be Drago.

MS, I'm pretty sure that is not all of them. But it is interesting that two of the people you mention (EF and Telle) are among the more stubborn in resisting my version of events from last night.

If this all falls into place then we are in very good shape for the next few days. And there should be some real value in voting records around EagleFan.