The Official MLB 2007 Thread

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

You're a little biased, but are you saying that if anyone besides A-Rod did this that it wouldn't be construed this way? Hasn't trickery in baseball been a common thing forever? Stealing signs, hidden ball trick, and I'm not so sure that this NEVER happens. I think A-Rod actually said "Ha" or something like that.

Nope, I don't care if it is A-Rod or Joe Blow up from the minors. It's a bush league play. They asked some of the Blue Jays players post game if that had ever happened in a game that they were in and to a man they all said that was the first time they had ever seen anything like that.

[Lathum]

What ARod did was a joke and a bush league play, plain and simple.

Guys shout in the field like that for each others saftey, for someone to mess with that is BS IMO

[Logan]

Geez...I'm as much an A-Rod hater as anyone, but you guys are making way too big a deal of this. I'm still trying to figure out how it could possibly be dangerous to two fielders if they both think the other will catch the ball. If anything, he's protecting them by not causing them to go after it.

Plus, Willie Mays Hayes did this during the season where the Indians reached the World Series, and no one complained about it then.

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Logan

Geez...I'm as much an A-Rod hater as anyone, but you guys are making way too big a deal of this. I'm still trying to figure out how it could possibly be dangerous to two fielders if they both think the other will catch the ball. If anything, he's protecting them by not causing them to go after it.

Plus, Willie Mays Hayes did this during the season where the Indians reached the World Series, and no one complained about it then.

It's dangerous because the next time they may not back off thinking that someone is messing with them. Duh.

[Logan]

Shouldn't we be talking about this instead? Duh!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05312007...an_in_n_y_.htm

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05302007...dan_mangan.htm

[Ksyrup]

I was traveling yesterday in the car, so I heard my fill of Stray-Rod talk and was mildly surprised that no one brought it up here. Apparently his wife packed a couple of suitcases and left last night. And now there are all sorts of sightings of ARod at stripclubs all over the country. It's like the Vick thing, in a way...everyone knew about it, but no one felt the need to talk about it until it became public.

[dawgfan]

As much as I like to boo A-Rod, this kind of "journalism" really turns me off.

[Ksyrup]

Not saying it's right, but Cowherd made a legit point yesterday that these athletes and their agents who want to increase their exposure to make more money and take them out of the realm of sports have to learn to deal with this now. This wasn't sports journalists, this is what these types of people do to celebs. And people like ARod transcend sports and become fodder for the grocery store line mags that chicks like to read.

I'm not sure I would call it journalism, but it definitely sells. And nowadays, so many athletes are becoming celebrities that this was inevitable.

[CraigSca]

I think the media uses the term "blonde bombshell" way too much.

[Logan]

You're right, and he in particular brings it on himself. When he comes out and says that people don't like him because he's a good-looking guy, people are going to increase their hatred.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Exactly, there's already communication issues so anything thats going to compound things and put any doubt as to whether someone is legitimately calling them off is dangerous.

I've never seen a hard slide ending with a player being taken off on a stretcher and spending several days in a hospital. Anything that potentially increases the chances of a collision in the outfield should be illegal. It was cheap, I hope Toronto takes care of it.

This is a joke, right? I'm sure I've seen guys go sprawling about 5 feet off the bag to attempt to take out the 2B/SS on a double play. The "intention" may not be to injure, but that's a possibility. Heck, when players are trying to score, they do their best to pulverize the catcher...remember, they are going full speed, the catcher is stationary, mostly keeping his eye on the ball.

There are plenty of legal plays with the possibility of serious injury, this is not one of them. On pop ups like that, at least when I play, somebody calls it right away and loud, and everyone else backs up. In that case, the SS should have actually been covering 3rd or 2nd, or wherever the runners were going. It's a case of a "cheap" play taking advantage of poor communication.

[Ksyrup]

Actually, the catcher blocking the plate is illegal, and I still can't understand why MLB allows it, giving the possibility of injury that exists on collisions.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by miked

This is a joke, right? I'm sure I've seen guys go sprawling about 5 feet off the bag to attempt to take out the 2B/SS on a double play. The "intention" may not be to injure, but that's a possibility. Heck, when players are trying to score, they do their best to pulverize the catcher...remember, they are going full speed, the catcher is stationary, mostly keeping his eye on the ball.

Actually both things you describe here are illegal. The catcher blocking the plate, as Ksyrup pointed out, and you have to be within arms reach of the base if you're going to break up a double play.

As I stated earlier, that play didn't necessarily risk injury, but if it becomes more common it does increase the chances of collisions in shallow center and shallow left.

[SirFozzie]

A-Rod has become a real jackass lately, this is the guy who came out of the baseline and tried to break up a double play by punching a Sox player in the Jimmies.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Bleah. This was a critical game for the M's if they wanted to remain a legit contender for the AL West. Being 5.5 back is a lot worse than being 3.5 back. And even though there will some side benefits to the M's dropping out of contention (Bavasi and Hargrove will surely be gone if that happens), there's also a big negative - it also likely means Ichiro will refuse to re-sign with the M's. July 31st is going to loom like a black cloud for this team if they aren't a realistic contender, as the team will have to make a very difficult choice - trade Ichiro to try and get something more than just a compensation pick, or roll the dice and see if they can manage to re-sign him (unlikely - he's sick of losing).

Felix has awesome stuff, but when he isn't commanding his fastball well and isn't mixing his pitches he can get hurt badly. Kudos to the Angels for doing as much damage as they did, but that wasn't Felix's best game. Ditto for Weaver. I think he's a better pitcher than his numbers show so far this year (though not as good as last year's numbers).

Can we call him "Just Felix" now?

[Ksyrup]

Phil Hughes just suffered a serious ankle sprain:

The Grade 3 diagnosis is considered the most severe possible strain, in which one or more ligaments are stretched and completely torn. The Yankees made Hughes' results public Wednesday, prior to the club's game against the Toronto Blue Jays at the Rogers Centre.

Yankees officials had hoped Hughes would return in mid-June. But now with the setback, the hurler won't even throw off a mound until somewhere from late June to early July.

[lighthousekeeper]

Pretty interesting article from Baseball Mogul:

http://www.sportsmogul.com/content/may30.htm

[Ksyrup]

And now Giambi is out!




Yanks' Giambi out indefinitely after tearing tissue in left foot arch

Updated: May 31, 2007, 8:14 PM ET

NEW YORK -- Jason Giambi will be sidelined at least three weeks and possibly far longer after tearing tissue in his left foot while rounding the bases on a home run.

The latest setback in a tumultuous season for the New York Yankees designated hitter occurred Tuesday night in Toronto. Giambi was examined in New York on Thursday by Dr. William Hamilton and will be placed on the disabled list before Friday's game at Boston.

"I'd say it's a severe injury," Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said.

While the best-case scenario likely would have Giambi returning in three to six weeks, Cashman couldn't rule out that Giambi could miss the remainder of the season.

"That I don't know," he said. "Ultimately it simply will be ready when it's healed. Right now I can't tell you how long that's going to take."

Giambi was shifted from first base to designated hitter this year and hit .322 with four homers and 17 RBIs in April. His foot began bothering him soon after he played the field for the first time on April 28, and he batted .117 in May with three homers and six RBIs.

He originally was diagnosed with a bone spur and switched to shoes with orthotics that he said relieved the pain. Giambi then hurt the foot more severely when he homered in the seventh inning Tuesday night.

"Rounding the bases he felt a pop," Cashman said. "There wasn't a tear before. Now there is."

Giambi traveled to New York on Thursday's day off, intending to get a cortisone shot, but Hamilton said Giambi had plantar fasciitis, inflamed tissue that causes pain near the heel, and a partially torn plantar fascia, connective tissue between the heel and that base of the toes that supports the arch of the foot.

Giambi's foot will be put in a walking boot, which will be removed in three weeks. He will have another MRI exam then, but Cashman said the boot might go right back on.

The 36-year-old Giambi, the 2000 AL MVP with the Oakland Athletics, is in the sixth season of a $120 million, seven-year contract with the Yankees and has been in the news this season for his role in baseball's steroids controversy.

In the May 18 editions of USA Today he was quoted as saying, "I was wrong for doing that stuff," which many interpreted as an admission of steroids use, and the Daily News reported five days later that he had failed an amphetamines test within the past year.

Giambi met last week with lawyers for Major League Baseball, and his case has been turned over to commissioner Bud Selig, who hasn't said whether he will attempt to discipline Giambi.

Melky Cabrera is likely to receive more playing time in the outfield while Giambi is sidelined, with Johnny Damon, Bobby Abreu and Hideki Matsui seeing spells at DH. Damon, who has had leg problems, probably will see the bulk of the DH time.

Kevin Thompson likely will be brought up from the minors.

"At this stage we'll just reconfigure the roster and move forward," Cashman said.

Giambi has been among the struggling hitters in New York's lineup. The Yankees are just 22-29, tied for last in the AL East and 13{ games behind first-place Boston heading into a weekend series at Fenway Park.

Notes
RHP Carl Pavano will have reconstructive elbow surgery Tuesday, and Mets medical director Dr. David Altcheck will operate. Pavano will be sidelined for at least a year. ... RHP Phil Hughes has a grade three ankle sprain and won't resume pitching off a mound for four to six weeks, Cashman said.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And now Giambi is out!

C'mon, we all know Selig suspended him and this is how they're covering up the steroid suspension.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Atocep

C'mon, we all know Selig suspended him and this is how they're covering up the steroid suspension.

I thought the Yankees decided to terminate his contract and this is how they agreed to cover it up, so the Yanks can get some insurance coverage for part of the remainder of his contract.

Given his May stats, I'm not sure if this hurts the Yankees or not, to be honest.

[Atocep]

Ok, this is funny.

NEW YORK (AP) -- The San Francisco Giants traded struggling closer Armando Benitez to the Florida Marlins for reliever Randy Messenger on Thursday night.

[Ksyrup]

Wow. That should have happened in the spring, when the Giants could have gotten more for him.

[Logan]

Well, the guy was pretty damn good the last time he was with Florida. At least against the Mets...

[Ksyrup]

And the Giants are paying $4.7M of the $5M he's owed. It's basically no risk for the Marlins.

[Fouts]

Wow, just read that Zambrano and Barrett were fighting in the clubhouse with Barrett getting a fat lip and a trip to the hospital. Poor Cubs.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Wow, just read that Zambrano and Barrett were fighting in the clubhouse with Barrett getting a fat lip and a trip to the hospital. Poor Cubs.

Was pretty entertaining. Barrett had a passed ball and an error on the same play. Zambrano was pitching horribly. In the dugout at the end of the inning Zambrano approached Barrett, said a couple things, then started to walk away and then just snapped.

Neither one of these guys is doing much of anything this year, so I think they just let their frustrations out on each other.

[Buccaneer]

The Padres finished the month of May with a 18-9 record and 2.17 team ERA! Amazing.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

The Padres finished the month of May with a 18-9 record and 2.17 team ERA! Amazing.

The NL West is just loaded with pitching. It should be a good race coming down the stretch.

[Schmidty]

Todd Jones pitches the 8th and 9th, and gives up 7 runs to give the Indians a 12-11 win.

HORRIBLE coaching by Jim Leyland to just leave him in the game. What a fucking joke, you fucking tool. Go smoke some more of your marijuana-laced Marlboros.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Todd Jones pitches the 8th and 9th, and gives up 7 runs to give the Indians a 12-11 win.

HORRIBLE coaching by Jim Leyland to just leave him in the game. What a fucking joke, you fucking tool. Go smoke some more of your marijuana-laced Marlboros.

And who, prey tell comes on?

Bobby Seay? Jason Grilli? Jose Mesa? Tim Byrdak? Zach Miner?

We have no one in our bullpen to put in.

[Ksyrup]

At some point, you pull the fucker. Even if you have confidence in him - which he shouldn't, frankly - some nights you just don't have it.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

At some point, you pull the fucker. Even if you have confidence in him - which he shouldn't, frankly - some nights you just don't have it.

While I do agree, the fact is this pen is abysmal and I am not even sold on Zumaya and Rodney coming back making it anything better then mediocre.

[Schmidty]

The loss of Jamie Walker is looking more and more painful.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Todd Jones pitches the 8th and 9th, and gives up 7 runs to give the Indians a 12-11 win.

HORRIBLE coaching by Jim Leyland to just leave him in the game. What a fucking joke, you fucking tool. Go smoke some more of your marijuana-laced Marlboros.

At least you don't take things too seriously.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

At least you don't take things too seriously.

Your sarcastic wit is like the tip of a guilded silver rapier.

I know I take things too seriously in the moment. It's my nature. It has brought me much embarrassment and confict. I wish I could be more laid-back, but I guess it's just who I am. *




*That paragraph is the perfect example.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Your sarcastic wit is like the tip of a guilded silver rapier.

I know I take things too seriously in the moment. It's my nature. It has brought me much embarrassment and confict. I wish I could be more laid-back, but I guess it's just who I am. *




*That paragraph is the perfect example.

Silver rapier? I didn't know Mike Tyson ever even competed in the olympics, much less took home a second place medal.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

The Padres finished the month of May with a 18-9 record and 2.17 team ERA! Amazing.

My fantasy team is laughing all the way to the Jake Peavy led bank

Speaking of which, time to go off on a long tangent. There's a bit of a thought that has almost become cliche that last few years that there are #1's and then there are aces. For instance, the Royals #1 is Gil Meche because, well, there isn't anyone else that good on the team. Not to say that he hasn't pitched well this season but he's not being considered for Cooperstown, um, ever. So, the cliche holds that there are a handful of aces out there at any given time.

So I was kindof curious of who people would put on the list. Now, personally, I think you have to have a little sustained "greatness" and this is more a list of "If I were starting a team and had to pick a pitcher to anchor me for the next 3 years, based on track record, who would I pick" and I think my list reflects that. For instance, Dan Haren has pitched great this season but it's really his first and it's not even a half season whereas Carlos Zambrano, stupid fights with his catcher aside, has a good track record and, frankly, his numbers this year all but scream that he's having arm trouble so I'd be more inclined to pick Zambrano over Haren provided we find out it is arm trouble and he gets it fixed.

For me, this is as far as I have gotten, in no particular order once you get past grouping:
"Best": Santana
"Aces": Oswalt, Peavy, Zambrano
"Very Close, if not in": Webb, Halladay, Carpenter, Sabathia
"Needs Work": Zito, Colon, Willis, Escobar
"Not Yet": Lackey, Beckett
"Too Early but Could Be": Liriano, Hamels, Young
"Too Old" but Recently Were: Clemens, Schilling, Martinez, Schmidt, Johnson, Smoltz

A few notes- I guess this is more about peak value over a couple of years more than anything else. Longevity doesn't really count unless it's sustained at a very high caliber (Maddux was like that for quite a while but he hasn't been in the last couple of years, hence why he's not on the last grouping). The "Needs Work" is the toughest- it's basically guys who have been #1's for a while but never had a high enough peak to be considered an ace. There are also a ton of guys who have the potential to be in that "Too Early" group- just look at Lincecum and he's only 3 or 4 starts into his career- but I tried to put players there who have had at least a half season of great stats.

The weirdest one for me, and someone not on the list, is Tim Hudson. If I had to place him, it'd be on the "Needs Work". He had a couple of years in Oakland where he was hitting that ace range but he's since fallen back to earth and this is the first year where he's shown something of that form he used to have.

SI

[Easy Mac]

you stay classy, Cubs fans

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

you stay classy, Cubs fans

beat me to it.

[Lathum]

dola- Allthough it was pretty funny when the announcer said " so much for travel mug day"

it reminded me of that scene ion Baseketball when Costas says" what a thing to happen on dozen egg night"

[Neuqua]

The high point of the year for Cubs fans was watching Lou go berserk today.

[MikeVic]

I'd say Halladay should definitely be in the "aces" group.

[General Mike]

Doug Mientkiwicz got ran the f*** over in the Red Sox game as the Yankees bullpen implodes again.

[Jas_lov]

I don't know what Torre sees in Scott Proctor, but anyone can see he's been getting worse and worse every game yet he's still Joe's go to guy every day.

Torre made a poor decision in walking Manny with no outs, Ortiz on 2nd, and Youkilis on deck who has been on fire all season.

In Proctor's defense, Abreu misplayed an Ortiz flyball to start the inning. Jeter bobbled a hard hit double play ball. But I think they should have brought Myers in to start the inning vs. Ortiz then go to Brian Bruney who is pitching much better than Proctor. Use Farnsworth and Mariano for the 8th and 9th unless one of those guys wasn't available, but I don't see why they wouldn't be.

Oh, and to throw more fuel on the fire, Clemens is out for two weeks with a groin pull and Kei Igawa will pitch Monday.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Oh, and to throw more fuel on the fire, Clemens is out for two weeks with a groin pull and Kei Igawa will pitch Monday.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Clemens retired in the next two weeks, if the Yanks keep losing.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Clemens retired in the next two weeks, if the Yanks keep losing.

He might as well. He's worthless with a terrible bullpen and poor defense anyway. And he probably won't get much run support either with only Jeter and Posada hitting well. Cano is hitting better, and hopefully Melky will start to hit now that he's playing everyday. Abreu, Giambi, and Mussina are hopefully gone next year so they can invest in Torri Hunter and a better bullpen.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I'd say Halladay should definitely be in the "aces" group.

I looked at the numbers again on some of those guys and I think Sabathia should be knocked down a group into the Zito, Colon, et al group. However, I had forgotten how young he still is- only 26 despite this being his 7th year in the majors.

Halladay really does deserve to move up. I didn't realize how good and how consistent he had been. The 2004 season threw me but I also forgot that was his injury year and it's a small sample size.

That middle group was the most interesting to go back on. Carpenter, I've never had much love for- he's had 2 really good years but he was barely mediocre before that. Oh, and did I mention he's about to miss his second season in five years? Webb definintely needs another solid year or two but he's on his way this year, not quite as good as last year but working his ERA back down again.

So, maybe dissolve that one group to avoid ambiguity and also just get rid of Santana's group, knowing full well that he's #1. So, here's the new listing with Carpenter being the hardest to categorize.

"Aces": Santana (1!), Oswalt, Peavy, Zambrano, Halladay
"Needs Work": Zito, Colon, Willis, Escobar, Carpenter
"Not Yet": Lackey, Beckett, Sabathia, Webb
"Too Early but Could Be": Liriano, Hamels, Young
"Too Old" but Recently Were: Clemens, Schilling, Martinez, Schmidt, Johnson, Smoltz

Also, a little added commentary to before, I think this really explains why fans and team expectations are different. Fans always love saying "We just need to pay $15M a year to get an ace and the team will be a contender"; that kind of sports talk fodder. That said, so rarely is that ace on the market. The last time I can even think of an "ace" in his prime on the market was Mike Mussina unless you consider all of those Clemens dalliances, which aren't even fair considering his age. It's almost always that unless you grow him, you just have to "settle" for a #1 if you're looking to buy.

SI

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

"Aces": Santana (1!), Oswalt, Peavy, Zambrano, Halladay
"Needs Work": Zito, Colon, Willis, Escobar, Carpenter
"Not Yet": Lackey, Beckett, Sabathia, Webb
"Too Early but Could Be": Liriano, Hamels, Young
"Too Old" but Recently Were: Clemens, Schilling, Martinez, Schmidt, Johnson, Smoltz

Whats interesting to me is the varying directions a lot of these guys are headed in and age really isn't the cause.

Santana still appears to be the same old Johan. Peavy is headed upwards and I'd like to take this opportunity to point out he was my Cy Young pick in the predictions thread . Halladay has always amazed me with his efficiency. This is a guy that threw 266 innings in '03 and didn't rank in the top 40 in pitcher abuse points. Oswalt has maintained his ERA, but his declining K-rate and rising H/9 is troublesome. Zambrano is having a bad year and it isn't because of sample size. All you have to do is look at his arm slot and velocity and you see that something is really wrong and its not going to go away until its fixed.

Zambrano, Willis, and Oswalt were worked incredibly hard early on in their careers and they have declining peripherals. Liriano has struggled to stay healthy and thats a big reason the Giants had no problem giving him up.

Sorry to hijack your discussion, its just that pitcher volitility has always been something that's interested me.

Back on topic, I think Zito is rated a bit high, he's working on his 3rd so-so year in the last 4. I think Haren belongs somewhere on there, he's been solid the past two years (better than Zito) and outstanding this year. Also, Smoltz could easily fall under ace or "too old", he's a very tough one to call. Aaron Harang has also very quietly become one of the better pitchers in the NL and is just now in his prime.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It may only be AA baseball but this is a Major League ejection.

[Terps]

Nice catch by Nick Markakis tonight to rob Erick Aybar of a homer:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x25...obs-a-home-run