Sony PS3 to be delayed to 07, and Cost $900 to make?

[Eaglesfan27]

There is a story on gamespot that each 360 produced now is already making 75 dollars of profit for Microsoft. Sony has a bit more of a hole because they started out losing more per system (300 per system approximately for Sony) but I'm sure they'll cut manufacturing costs in time and start turning a profit in the future as well.

[stevew]

We finally got a Blu Ray player in today at work. We have it hooked through a higher end Sony receiver combo(model number escapes me) and into a 50" sxrd. Picture is absolutely sickening, although anything looks great on that TV really. A better quality than just standard upconverting DVD's, but I don't think that I would run out and buy one of yet. Player is 999.99, but it does include 2 HDMI cords, which can easily run 50 each.

At 400 or so, it'd be worth buying, but definitely not at this price. If it was a multi disc unit, it would also be a bit more worth it.

Player is quite sharp though, the blue glass front looks pretty cool. And it's all stainless and stuff, lots of craftsmanship at work.

[Kodos]

Pathetic.


hxxp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061204/ap_on_re_us/playstation_theft_2

Suspect in PlayStation 3 robbery killed 2 hours, 47 minutes ago

WILMINGTON, N.C. - A teenager accused of robbing a student of two new Playstation 3s on the day the popular game consoles were introduced was shot to death by police sent to arrest him.

Peyton Strickland, 18, was killed Friday at a house he shared with three roommates, New Hanover County Sheriff Sid Causey said.

"If this boy would've come to the door, opened the door, we probably wouldn't be talking," the sheriff said Sunday.

Roommate Mike Rhoton said Strickland was unarmed, but may have been holding a video game controller when he went to the door as it was bashed in by officers.

Authorities promised Monday to fully investigate the fatal shooting. "No one is above the law and no one is beneath its protection," District Attorney Ben David said. He declined to discuss details of the case.

The State Bureau of Investigation is examining the case and three deputies on the team were placed on paid leave, normal practice whenever officers fire their weapons, Causey said.

Arrest warrants alleged that Strickland, a student at Cape Fear Community College, and a University of North Carolina-Wilmington student stole two PlayStation units from another UNC-Wilmington student that day.

The sheriff said the robbery victim had waited three days in line to buy two Playstation 3 units for $641 each at a Wal-Mart. He was unloading the units at his campus apartment when one man beat him to the ground while another took the PlayStations, Causey said.

The sheriff said Strickland was shot by members of a a special police unit who went to help university officers serve warrants. He would not say why the special team was assisting.

Strickland's dog, a German shepherd, also was shot to death.

The second man named in the warrants was arrested at another address and was released on bail on Saturday, authorities said.

The nationwide introduction of the Sony game system on Nov. 17 was marked by rowdy crowds and store stampedes. One buyer waiting in line at a Connecticut store was shot by armed robbers.

[INDalltheway]

victim...

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

They went out of their way to constantly point out the greatness of the 360 in an article that was supposed to be a review of the PS3. The other article took time to review the features in the PS3 alone. One console does not have to be bad for the other to be good. When you see an article like what the Times put out, it makes you think less of the writer. Certainly the bias in the Times article was an attack on a console more than a review of a console.

It is pretty obvious that the Times reviewer owns a 360 and has some bias towards that system by his comments. Several of the things that he pointed out as 'difficult' or 'clumsy' are easily remedied by most users. In fact, I prefer the ability to make a lot of the changes in my network and multimedia settings that caused him to not like the PS3. He said it took him 12 minutes to figure out that he needed video cables for HD. I can only imagine how much reading it took him to figure out how to insert the games into that funny slot on the front of the console. Sarcasm aside, as others have already said in this thread, it's a poorly written article for someone that was supposed to be providing an unbiased review of a product.

I love the assumption that because this reviewer had some issues with the PS3 and preferred a lot of similar features in the 360 that he somehow must be "biased" towards the 360. I guess in this worldview it's not possible to form a viewpoint that contains negative impressions of a product unless one is already "biased" against it.

And for the record, lest I be accused of being a 360 fanboy, I own one current-gen console - a Wii.

[SirFozzie]

Mizzou will be the first to admit he's a sony fanboy.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Mizzou will be the first to admit he's a sony fanboy.

I do own a PS3 and like it a lot, so I guess I'm a fanboy from that standpoint. My main beef with the back and forth 360/PS3 discussion is that it is more fanboy-driven than anything else. Let's be honest. If supply were available for both systems and price was the same as well, the PS3 would be a no-brainer winner in this upcoming generation. Microsoft made a good strategic move on their end to not put a HD-DVD drive in the console that would have pushed the console price up to $600 and made all things even. They differentiated themselves by doing that and will probably go toe to toe with the PS3 as a result over the life of this console.

As a sidenote, does anyone have review numbers for the new PS3 games released today? As much as I dislike EA, Fight Night 3 may be a looker.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

As a sidenote, does anyone have review numbers for the new PS3 games released today? As much as I dislike EA, Fight Night 3 may be a looker.

http://ps3.ign.com/index/reviews.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

http://ps3.ign.com/index/reviews.html

Yeah, I know. Firewalls tend to throw a wrench in those plans. Thanks anyway.

[stevew]

December 4, 2006 - If you've been following the evolution of the PlayStation 3, then you'll probably remember the Fight Night Round 3 demo that EA producer Kudo Tsunoda gave at Sony's press conference in May 2005. In it, the enthusiastic spokesman raved about how the added power of the next-generation system would enable the series to benefit from realistic physics and facial expressions -- capturing the emotion and drama of boxing like its predecessors never had. Of course, those of us that played the Xbox 360 game earlier this year know that, while it's still very good, Round 3 isn't what was promised almost two years ago. The new PS3 edition isn't either.

But enough of what the game could have been, let's talk about what it is... and that's a pretty damn good boxing title. After all, EA Sports Fight Night Round 3 on the PlayStation 3 is nearly identical to its 360 counterpart. Ported over by the team at EA Canada, it looks and feels like the same code we threw punches at in February... with a couple of slight enhancements.

Obviously, the biggest new improvement comes with the addition of "Get in the Ring". Played exclusively in the first-person perspective, Get in the Ring mode actually changes player tactics because of how its affects your depth perception, timing, and reactions to offense. When looking through your own fighter's eyes, it becomes apparent that the jab is more important than it is from the third-person point-of-view (speed is everything here). Predicting an opponent's moves are more difficult to do too, and thanks to an onscreen damage system, your fighter's own level of damage makes a real difference in your ability (thanks to the creation of blind sports from prolonged facial blows).

Visually, Fight Night sees a few upgrades as well -- but they're so minimal when in motion that its hardly noticeable unless you're actively looking for them (re: the sweat looks more realistic and the lighting has been enhanced). Despite this better appearance, though, the PS3 version of Round 3 does suffer from slowdown (it gets particularly choppy during the close-up replays or fast multi-punch combos) and is has bizarrely-pixilated crowds as well. On the plus side, the amount of spaz-bounce (those random jittery reactions caused by a combination of rope and rag doll physics) has been minimized compared to other versions... but it's still there. Regardless, Round 3 is still a great looking game. Fighter animations, licensed faces, the physiques, and every single one of the fictional and actual areas are extremely well done (the Staples Center is spot on).

All of these new improvements follow several award-winning years; years in which the Fight Night franchise has won praise for its mix of arcade and sim-based gameplay elements. Naturally, that kind of recognition has set expectations rather high. After all, Round 2 had doubled the performance of the previous season's game in almost every category, and other than the unbalanced Haymaker punch, it had fine-tuned its mechanics to create one of the most responsive and enjoyable boxing games around. But where can you go from there?

In EA's estimation, the first thing to do was to tone down the over-clocked haymaker and bring the game back to basics. This is a very good thing. In real boxing, the most important punch you'll ever throw is the jab -- it sets up your opponent for other punches, is an excellent range-finder, and is just as effective as a defensive tool as it is an offensive one. EA understood this concept for Fight Night Round 3 because the harm that a jab or a jab-straight combo can do is greatly improved.

More importantly, though, cocking back a haymaker for super damage is no longer possible. If you remember from last year, you could literally chase your opponent around the ring with your shotgun ready to blast, taking shots along the way before eventually unleashing all holy hell with little risk. But if you telegraph that same punch this season (which is more obvious since the move has been slowed down), your opponent can easily knock that animation right out of you. Of course, this means that when haymakers land they'll rock your enemy more than they did before, but you'll have to work harder to get it there. It's a much more effective risk / reward system brings Haymaker abuse down several notches.


But the Haymakers and Signature punches aren't the only special attacks that players have at their disposal this year. One of the biggest new additions is the ability to intentionally throw "Flash KO" shots and perform "Stun Punches." The first maneuver is pretty self-explanatory, but the stun punch is probably the most dramatic. Land one of these and the viewpoint shifts to a first-person mode similar to "Get in the Ring," only this time, it's shown through the eyes of your opponent. From there, the advantage is certainly in your favor as the altered viewpoint makes it hard for your adversary to defend, and thus, he becomes much easier to knock down.

The good news is, that just like the two previous years, Haymakers and other special punches can only be pulled off by shadowing their motions on the analog sticks (with the exception of signature punches, which are still tied to buttons). This means that if you're a stick user, you'll have a clear advantage over button mashers as long as you know what you're doing. The bad news is that using the buttons are still a much faster and easier way to fight. A mix of both the sticks and the buttons will bring the best results (you can use the SIXAXIS to foul now too).

Fight Night Round 3 has also managed to include a couple of other little goodies that adds depth to the gameplay... the most obvious of which, is the inclusion of actual boxer styles to vary fighting techniques. Not only does this mean that you can expect to see different stances and animations such as "Mummy" and " Elusive," but that you'll also see different punching styles (Fast, Slugger, etc) and defensive maneuvers (Cross, Philly Shell, etc). No matter what style they use, though, players can switch from orthodox to the southpaw stance on the fly, as well as lean on the ropes, or even taunt their opponent while moving.

All these adjustments to the gameplay make Fight Night Round 3 an even better multiplayer experience than before. On the PS3, it mirrors the Xbox 360 setup with ranked and unranked matchmaking, complete stat tracking, headset support, and all the other bells and whistles one would come to expect. EA has even included an "Analog Players Only" room for those that don't like the button mashers. Despite where you play, though, gameplay on pre-release servers was smooth and fast. As a result, the amount of fun that two people can have is pretty high. Fight Night no longer boils down to two people engaging in slugfests or counter-parties. Now, the multiple styles and more realistic boxing mechanics make fights with humans play out better. In fact, it's probably one of the best two-player experiences on the PS3.

Unfortunately, the single-player experience isn't all backrubs and candy canes. Even at the hardest difficulty setting, most AI boxers are as dumb as they come and offer little strategy or defensive wisdom. To their credit, the more aggressive opponents will get overzealous with super-fast combos once you've won a title or two, but if you use regular head movement and frequently change defensive positions, it'll scare them into not throwing punches. Out of 50+ fights against the computer on "Hard", I never lost -- that should give you an idea of how well an advanced player will actually do. If you do fall into that category, you can handicap yourself a bit with "Get in the Ring," (which is harder) but not by much.

Perhaps the most disappointing aspect of the entire game, though, is how substandard the career feature is. A lot different from last year, the career mode has taken some curious backward steps from last year. To start, players are now forced to complete an entire amateur career before going pro (unlike in Round 2, when you could skip it entirely). This forced direction is because EA has incorporated a new "Rival" feature and the amateurs are used to introduce you to your main foil. It's a great addition in concept, but the execution isn't very strong. I ended up fighting against two guys that were my "rivals" in a single career four times each, and destroyed them every time. Anyone who follows boxing can tell you, if one guy knocks out the other one-sidedly over and over again, the media hype and competition between the two isn't exactly heated

Another curious omission is the basic stuff that you'd expect to see in a game about boxing -- specifically ranking lists and current title holders. This time, players move up in opponent class by filling popularity meters that take them to their next sponsored event as they win. These sponsored events include specialty match-ups backed by real-world companies like Burger King, Under Armor, and EA itself. In addition to moving up the unseen ladder by winning these contests, you also unlock a number of new goodies like official attire sets and "The King" to serve as your promoter for a nice ratings boost. It's not a stretch in the least to say that EA Sports Fight Night Round 3 is one of the most commercial games I've ever played.

Fight Night's last big shortcoming is primarily related to its presentation. The EA Sports Cutman, for instance, is only half the size it used to be and moves along faster than before. Mid-round pauses that allowed you to stop the action and check out various angles or customize replays have been taken out as well, and now you can only replay specific moments following a knockdown or the vignettes at the end of a round. At least the goofy press conference fights (that flat out sucked) have, thankfully, been removed.

I do want to make it clear, though, that Fight Night Round 3 is still an entertaining game, and I don't want to overstate the negatives and underplay the positive ones. Unchallenging and less engaging that the career mode may be, there are still a number of ways to pass the time. The returning and popular Hard Hits "knockdown-only" action mode, for instance, is a fun alternative to the traditional boxing match (and in this context, is worth playing the CPU). The Rivalry mode is another little bonus worth mentioning too, as it recreates some of the greatest contentions in boxing history (Ali-Frazier, Robinson-Lamotta, etc). I will admit that I miss last year's legend Rocky Marciano, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for next year.

Closing Comments
EA Sports Fight Night Round 3 Isn't the huge improvement that Round 2 was compared to Round 1, and the lack of AI and the impoverished career mode is a disappointment. It isn't a huge leap over the 360 version released ten months ago either. That said, Round 3 is still one hell of an addicting multiplayer game that provides hours and hours of hardcore boxing fun. The toned-down haymakers, better balancing, and inclusion of various styles makes playing with your buddy an awesome experience, and the mechanics are so good it even makes fighting against the CPU worthwhile in the beginning. It's not to be missed if you have gaming roommates or friends, but it's not to be counted on if you regularly forget what the sun looks like.

7.5 Presentation
The essence of boxing has been captured really well, but essential elements like champion lists, top 10 rankings, and the like are sorely missed. Get in the ring is very cool, though.
8.5 Graphics
Excellent polygonal models, facial and body textures, and a solid physics system helps Fight Night stand out in the crowd. The better lighting and sweat is nice too, but moderate slowdown isn't.
6.5 Sound
The game's soundtrack is good enough and the audio effects actually really good, but the inaccurate and repeating commentary by Joe Tessatore is made worse by its lack of new lines.
8.5 Gameplay
Fight Night has the best boxing mechanics around and continues to blur the division between arcade and sim fighting elements. The new styles, techniques, and punches are all good stuff.
8.0 Lasting Appeal
If it only had career mode, it wouldn't have much. But with multiple gameplay types, Get in the Ring, and fantastic multiplayer options, you can expect to spend plenty of time with it.
8.3
Impressive OVERALL
(out of 10 / not an average)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Thanks, Steve. I'm a big single player gamer. Given the talk about the career being too easy, I'll probably pass. I'll have to check the rest of the reviews to confirm it when I get home. I think there's one other game coming out for the PS3 today as well, so I'll take a look to see if that was reviewed any higher.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If supply were available for both systems and price was the same as well, the PS3 would be a no-brainer winner in this upcoming generation.

I don't think that's true - the list of exclusives for Sony isn't as impressive as it was for the last generation, the horsepower advantage that the PS3 has isn't manifesting itself in a significant way (in fact I've seen samples from a racing game where the graphics are more impressive on the 360 version) likely due to a combination of shortages of PS3 dev kits and greater difficulty in working with the API's in the PS3 in comparison to the 360, Xbox Live (while a pay service) is almost universally regarded as a much superior online experience, and many people simply aren't ready to pick a side in the next-gen DVD format war.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I don't think that's true - the list of exclusives for Sony isn't as impressive as it was for the last generation, the horsepower advantage that the PS3 has isn't manifesting itself in a significant way (in fact I've seen samples from a racing game where the graphics are more impressive on the 360 version) likely due to a combination of shortages of PS3 dev kits and greater difficulty in working with the API's in the PS3 in comparison to the 360, Xbox Live (while a pay service) is almost universally regarded as a much superior online experience, and many people simply aren't ready to pick a side in the next-gen DVD format war.

That is true right now, but you're not considering my point fully. If the price were lower, assuming supply was available, there would be a much higher level of 3rd party support (most developers have stated that they plan on making games for the PS3, but they're holding off until supply ramps up) and the horsepower would actually be used in games. Currently, the PS3 is just getting ports of the 360 until a greater supply is in place. They can code for it if they need to. They just choose to not do so at this point from a financial perspective and that certainly makes sense to me.

Developers have said that the difference in power is quite significant, but why should they waste their time spending lots of extra money to use it when they can't realize a return on that investment until the supply is there? As far as the online experience, you can't make a comparison with that until you get a greater sample on the PS3. There have been no complaints about PS3 online play thus far. In fact, Resistance is currently providing 40 player deathmatches with no lag whatsoever. That's something that the 360 doesn't even have at this point. The 360 isn't a bad system by any means. But it's certainly not the clear leader that you'd make it out to be. There's plenty of potential in the PS3 once the supply of consoles gets to the market.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

As far as the online experience, you can't make a comparison with that until you get a greater sample on the PS3. There have been no complaints about PS3 online play thus far. In fact, Resistance is currently providing 40 player deathmatches with no lag whatsoever. That's something that the 360 doesn't even have at this point.

Umm, usual misperception of online.

Online service != number of players in a game or lag. Online service = marketplace, matchmaking, demos, etc. That's where people talk about Xbox Live vs the competition, and where many people think Xbox Live wins out hands down (primarily because Sony and Nintendo are just starting to enter this market).

Number of players in a game or lag is a combination of networking libraries, game architecture design, a user's own connection including other machines on their local LAN and/or using their cable/DSL modem, and the vagaries of the net (I'll believe the "game X has no lag whatsoever" without qualification when pigs start flying; someone hits a net storm and still doesn't lag in the game, then the game is playing for them as no network traffic from their system is getting through to them). This will RARELY have anything to do with the platform at all.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Umm, usual misperception of online.

Online service != number of players in a game or lag. Online service = marketplace, matchmaking, demos, etc. That's where people talk about Xbox Live vs the competition, and where many people think Xbox Live wins out hands down (primarily because Sony and Nintendo are just starting to enter this market).

That's fair. I'd agree that the marketplace area is not very user friendly on the PS3, though I'm not one to be an impulse buyer and actually purchase stuff off the online market, so I don't use it that often anyway.

I would also note that it's not like you have to pull teeth to get in a 40 player game on Resistance. I don't play online that often, but when I did with Resistance, I went from the online selection menu to being in a 40 person game in under a minute. The interface is really easy to use even for someone like me who doesn't use it all that often. The price is excellent as well.

Also, info leaked out a couple of days ago that Sony plans a major firmware upgrade in March where their online services will be updated to be VERY similar to what Microsoft uses in their market. Sincerest form of flatter, I guess. Regardless, they're going to end up being nearly identical.

[Kodos]

Toys 'r' Us had one 20 gig PS3 last night, but I passed on it. Not a real compelling reason to get it right now. But of course the electronics hound in me had to ask. The lady said the Wii has actually garnered bigger crowds and more interest.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

The lady said the Wii has actually garnered bigger crowds and more interest.

That's because there's no PS3's in stock for the forseeable future. The Wii is a good gaming console creating serious interest, but the way that people somehow correlate interest in Wii with a lack of interest in the PS3 is a bit silly. The PS3 and the 360 both have some work to do given the early success of the Wii. In no way am I saying that one console will outsell another console at this point. I just think we're not at the point where a judgement can be made on the consoles. By spring next year, we'll have PS3's on the shelf. At that point, it's going to be pretty obvious who are the winners/losers in the console war.

I think it's a shame for Microsoft that they didn't more actively promote their console in the time before the PS3 launch. They could have developed the 10 million console lead that they predicted. It now appears that they'll fall a couple of million consoles short of that prediction.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That is true right now, but you're not considering my point fully. If the price were lower, assuming supply was available, there would be a much higher level of 3rd party support (most developers have stated that they plan on making games for the PS3, but they're holding off until supply ramps up) and the horsepower would actually be used in games. Currently, the PS3 is just getting ports of the 360 until a greater supply is in place. They can code for it if they need to. They just choose to not do so at this point from a financial perspective and that certainly makes sense to me.

Perhaps I misunderstood your point - I thought you were talking about now, rather than 2-3 years down the road.

For games that are multi-platform, I wouldn't expect that most developers will spend much time trying to mine a lot of extra horsepower out of their PS3 versions - much like in the last generation, the games will be written primarily on the basis of the base level platform (PS2 in the last generation, 360 in the current generation) with perhaps a few moderate upgrades in the areas of graphics. This is an area however where MS has an advantage - maximizing the horsepower of the 360 (i.e. fully understanding the programming API's) is widely considered much easier than on the PS3. That may change a few years down the road as more PS3 dev kits become available and a lot of time has been spent figuring out the best ways to optimize game engines for the the PS3. Keep in mind that this is somewhat variable based off the game engines that a particular developer is utilizing.

But in an abstract sense, yes - if cost were not an issue and the timing were the same in terms of the release and availability of hardware for both, the PS3 would probably come out slightly ahead. I don't think the difference is as much as you assume though - from talking with our advanced programming team, I've yet to hear them indicate they think the PS3 is that much superior to the 360, contrary to what you've been saying. Maybe that's just because they haven't had much access to actual PS3 dev kits or time to really dig into the API's; I don't know. I'd be curious to hear if Greg has an opinion on this.

But it's certainly not the clear leader that you'd make it out to be. There's plenty of potential in the PS3 once the supply of consoles gets to the market.

I never said the 360 is the "clear leader" - I simply disagreed with the notion that, all things being equal, the PS3 was a clear leader. I think they are not nearly as different as you think they are.

[Daimyo]

I was at best buy last night when a couple returned a PS3 that they said worked perfectly. I was pretty surprised anyone would return a working PS3 (why not sell it for more if you don't want it?). The customer service guy noticed I was paying attention and asked if I wanted to buy it... it was tempting for a second, but I passed and they put it out on the floor.

If it had been a Wii I would have bought it without hesitation. Too bad...

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I would also note that it's not like you have to pull teeth to get in a 40 player game on Resistance. I don't play online that often, but when I did with Resistance, I went from the online selection menu to being in a 40 person game in under a minute. The interface is really easy to use even for someone like me who doesn't use it all that often. The price is excellent as well.

That has very little to do with the online service and everything to do with the game's design. That's all I'm saying.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

That has very little to do with the online service and everything to do with the game's design. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, but I prefer that it be the designer's credit (or doom) whether the online portion of the game works or not. If a company has to hold itself responsible for the workings of the online portion of the game, they're more likely to make sure it works correctly. If it doesn't work correctly, you know to be concerned with how that group creates the online portion of their games/servers in the future. It's incentive. That's never a bad thing.

[TroyF]

Mizzou,

You may be right. If costs were equal, game development was the same, the online service was identical and if pigs flew the PS3 would be the better system.

The problem is none of those things are true right now. There is no single, overriding reason for me to purchase a PS3 now. As is usually the case with new systems, I've gotten the urge to get them. There is no doubt in my mind I'll "eventually" get a PS3. But right now?

Lets put it this way: I was in Wal-Mart yesterday to look and see if Castlevania for the DS was in. It wasn't (which is a good thing, because I have three game nikki reviews that need to get posted tonight without fail, but I digress)

Looking in the cabinets, I see a PS3. I think about it. Weigh the pros and cons. Look up at the PS3 games. not one of them does anything for me. The fall of man one looks cool, but I haven't got through Gears of War yet and after that I'll have Call of Duty 3 to go through. So while it may be a good game, nothing just reaches out and says "Buy Me Now"

I decided not to do it. I thought about picking it up as an Ebay thing and then saw it was the 20GB model. Screw it. Not worth my time.

Had that been a Wii? It'd have been mine. Right there, on the spot. No questions asked. It has nothing to do with availability (because that PS3 was one more than I've seen of a WII in the Denver aria)

I'm not even sure I should buy the Wii to be honest, but of the two, it seems by far the more interesting to me until Sony comes out with a "system seller" type of game. That game could have been God of War 2, but it's going to be a PS2 title for some idiotic reason. (which is actually good for me, because it'll save me six hundred)

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

I was at best buy last night when a couple returned a PS3 that they said worked perfectly. I was pretty surprised anyone would return a working PS3 (why not sell it for more if you don't want it?). The customer service guy noticed I was paying attention and asked if I wanted to buy it... it was tempting for a second, but I passed and they put it out on the floor.

If it had been a Wii I would have bought it without hesitation. Too bad...

Wow, that's crazy. I just got back from Best Buy here in SD with my co-worker, getting some hardware when we saw a guy in the return line bringing back a PS3 -- didn't know what model it was. On our way out, when we were about to start smoking a couple cigarettes, another guy walked into Best Buy with a PS3. We asked him what was wrong with it, and he said nothing was wrong with it - just wasn't worth it for him. On a side note, no Wii component cables or Wiimotes available for us.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Mizzou,

You may be right. If costs were equal, game development was the same, the online service was identical and if pigs flew the PS3 would be the better system.

The problem is none of those things are true right now. There is no single, overriding reason for me to purchase a PS3 now. As is usually the case with new systems, I've gotten the urge to get them. There is no doubt in my mind I'll "eventually" get a PS3. But right now?

Lets put it this way: I was in Wal-Mart yesterday to look and see if Castlevania for the DS was in. It wasn't (which is a good thing, because I have three game nikki reviews that need to get posted tonight without fail, but I digress)

Looking in the cabinets, I see a PS3. I think about it. Weigh the pros and cons. Look up at the PS3 games. not one of them does anything for me. The fall of man one looks cool, but I haven't got through Gears of War yet and after that I'll have Call of Duty 3 to go through. So while it may be a good game, nothing just reaches out and says "Buy Me Now"

I decided not to do it. I thought about picking it up as an Ebay thing and then saw it was the 20GB model. Screw it. Not worth my time.

Had that been a Wii? It'd have been mine. Right there, on the spot. No questions asked. It has nothing to do with availability (because that PS3 was one more than I've seen of a WII in the Denver aria)

I'm not even sure I should buy the Wii to be honest, but of the two, it seems by far the more interesting to me until Sony comes out with a "system seller" type of game. That game could have been God of War 2, but it's going to be a PS2 title for some idiotic reason. (which is actually good for me, because it'll save me six hundred)

Pig flying aside, there's no reason right now to get a PS3 if you already own a 360. The games are very similar. By the end of next year, it will obviously be a different situation with an influx of new games for the system. There will be differentiation at that point.

The Wii is going to be purchased independent of any PS3/360 purchase for the most part. If the rumors of the 360/PS3 developing a motion controller for release in the near future are true, it might move some of those Wii purchasers toward the PS3 or 360 purchase. Hard to tell until that happens.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by hukarez

Wow, that's crazy. I just got back from Best Buy here in SD with my co-worker, getting some hardware when we saw a guy in the return line bringing back a PS3 -- didn't know what model it was. On our way out, when we were about to start smoking a couple cigarettes, another guy walked into Best Buy with a PS3. We asked him what was wrong with it, and he said nothing was wrong with it - just wasn't worth it for him.

LOL.....you need to sell the location of that store on eBay. Cripes. Two PS3's for the taking.

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

LOL.....you need to sell the location of that store on eBay. Cripes. Two PS3's for the taking.

I wish I had more time to ask them more questions though -- especially to that guy who was waiting in the return line (wasn't too big, just had a couple folks in front of him).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by hukarez

I wish I had more time to ask them more questions though -- especially to that guy who was waiting in the return line (wasn't too big, just had a couple folks in front of him).

I'm guessing they weren't the brightest fellas given that they could still sell that machine on eBay for a profit even if it was already opened. Makes no sense to return the machine to the store.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm guessing they weren't the brightest fellas given that they could still sell that machine on eBay for a profit even if it was already opened. Makes no sense to return the machine to the store.

I don't know, sometimes ebay is a pain in the ass. Maybe they also bought an extended warranty.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I don't know, sometimes ebay is a pain in the ass. Maybe they also bought an extended warranty.

I'm thinking $200-300 in their pocket might ease their pain.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Pig flying aside, there's no reason right now to get a PS3 if you already own a 360. The games are very similar. By the end of next year, it will obviously be a different situation with an influx of new games for the system. There will be differentiation at that point.

The Wii is going to be purchased independent of any PS3/360 purchase for the most part. If the rumors of the 360/PS3 developing a motion controller for release in the near future are true, it might move some of those Wii purchasers toward the PS3 or 360 purchase. Hard to tell until that happens.

I'm not sure it will be so obvious. I HOPE it is, but I'm not convinced of it yet. The PS3 seems really behind the curve as far as development goes. Every "it" game that I've seen so far is going to be released on both systems.

And I think the Wii may end up kicking the crap out of both the 360 and the PS3 now. Cheaper, more accessable for all ages, solid game development arc and a new type of way to play games. . . it's looking like the most revelutionary system around at this point.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm not sure it will be so obvious. I HOPE it is, but I'm not convinced of it yet. The PS3 seems really behind the curve as far as development goes. Every "it" game that I've seen so far is going to be released on both systems.

And I think the Wii may end up kicking the crap out of both the 360 and the PS3 now. Cheaper, more accessable for all ages, solid game development arc and a new type of way to play games. . . it's looking like the most revelutionary system around at this point.

These are all the PS series that have been announced will continue on the PS3:

Final Fantasy series
Formula One license game(although not as popular here, a big seller overseas)
Metal Gear series
Gran Turismo series
Killzone
Motorstorm
Ratchet and Clank
SOCOM series
Warhawk
Kingdom Hearts series
Wipeout
Lair

That's a lot of very good games. In 6-8 months, the PS3 will have some of the games that help to sell the system. By the holidays next year, the library will have quite a few excellent titles. It's not a matter of if, but rather when.

The Wii is certainly doing something different, but with the announcement of motion controllers coming soon for PS3 and 360, they aren't going to have much to differentiate themselves with in the near future other than sub-par graphics. The third party titles didn't do well on launch. They're going to have to start helping out their development partners or they're going to be left with a console that sells ONLY Nintendo titles. That's not a good console business model.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

These are all the PS series that have been announced will continue on the PS3:

Final Fantasy series
Formula One license game(although not as popular here, a big seller overseas)
Metal Gear series
Gran Turismo series
Killzone
Motorstorm
Ratchet and Clank
SOCOM series
Warhawk
Kingdom Hearts series
Wipeout
Lair

That's a lot of very good games. In 6-8 months, the PS3 will have some of the games that help to sell the system. By the holidays next year, the library will have quite a few excellent titles. It's not a matter of if, but rather when.

The Wii is certainly doing something different, but with the announcement of motion controllers coming soon for PS3 and 360, they aren't going to have much to differentiate themselves with in the near future other than sub-par graphics. The third party titles didn't do well on launch. They're going to have to start helping out their development partners or they're going to be left with a console that sells ONLY Nintendo titles. That's not a good console business model.

I'm not saying the games you listed above aren't good or popular. But not a single one of those games sell me on a PS3. Turismo is the only one that comes close, but I think Forza is a better game and Forza 2 will be out for the 360 probably a year or more before that gets released.

Wipeout intrigues me.

Still, it's the "when" that also comes into play. When is it coming out with an exclusive game that I can't play on the 360, that I HAVE TO HAVE. You know what I mean, the game that just kills you if you don't have it.

I just don't see that game on the list above. I'm sure other people do.

[INDalltheway]

My parents got a hold of one this afternoon. They are selling it on ebay, but they have a decent reason to. Basically the church they go to is giving out money to buy anything that the members can turn into a profit. I told them to look for a PS3 and sell that thing on ebay. Plus people might like to see the person benefiting this is a church. Am I right?

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That's not a good console business model.

Yeah, I mean a non-gamer is certainly going to spend an extra $150-$200 on a system when the 360 and PS3 come out with their motion controllers.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Joe Canadian

Yeah, I mean a non-gamer is certainly going to spend an extra $150-$200 on a system when the 360 and PS3 come out with their motion controllers.

Tsk-tsk. Don't come into the Sony fanboy threads trying to make sense.

[Kodos]

This is a Sony fanboy thread? As far as I can tell, there is only one guy in the thread who is a Sony fanboy.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

My parents got a hold of one this afternoon. They are selling it on ebay, but they have a decent reason to. Basically the church they go to is giving out money to buy anything that the members can turn into a profit. I told them to look for a PS3 and sell that thing on ebay. Plus people might like to see the person benefiting this is a church. Am I right?

I don't know. This guy didn't sell his:

http://cgi.ebay.com:80/Sony-PLAYSTAT...QQcmdZViewItem

Then again, his price was rediculious.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Joe Canadian

Yeah, I mean a non-gamer is certainly going to spend an extra $150-$200 on a system when the 360 and PS3 come out with their motion controllers.

That wasn't the point. Nintendo has run into problems with third-party support that has lead to the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube trailing the other consoles. Nintendo makes great games as a first party supplier, but you can't create a console and have first party titles as the only big hits on the console. You need 3rd party support to make a splash long-term.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That wasn't the point. Nintendo has run into problems with third-party support that has lead to the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube trailing the other consoles. Nintendo makes great games as a first party supplier, but you can't create a console and have first party titles as the only big hits on the console. You need 3rd party support to make a splash long-term.

And I think you are underestimating the amount of games that will come out on the Wii.

A few main areas to consider for a softward developer:

1) how many systems are out there
2) how easy is it to make a game for that system (development costs)
3) Is there anything that can be done that's creative for the system?

Fact is, the Wii is going to have a pretty darned big user base right out of the shoot. I think they'll be the first to catch the 360 and I'm not sure Sony ever will in this generation. (sorry, I'm just not convinced, especially if Blu-Ray doesn't take off like they expect)

The Wii is easy to develop for as well.

I think you are really missing the boat here. The Wii is going to have a solid lineup of games and the first party titles will be more than enough to keep it afloat for quite awhile IMHO.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

And I think you are underestimating the amount of games that will come out on the Wii.

A few main areas to consider for a softward developer:

1) how many systems are out there
2) how easy is it to make a game for that system (development costs)
3) Is there anything that can be done that's creative for the system?

Fact is, the Wii is going to have a pretty darned big user base right out of the shoot. I think they'll be the first to catch the 360 and I'm not sure Sony ever will in this generation. (sorry, I'm just not convinced, especially if Blu-Ray doesn't take off like they expect)

The Wii is easy to develop for as well.

I think you are really missing the boat here. The Wii is going to have a solid lineup of games and the first party titles will be more than enough to keep it afloat for quite awhile IMHO.

Nintendo has always been a very strong launch system. They have a strong core of Nintendo fans that will buy whatever they put out. They're going to make a lot of money off this system because they're already running a profit right off the bat. I'm not predicting the demise of this system by any means. For that matter, all three systems will sell plenty of consoles. The main reason I like the Wii is that it will force other developers to try to think more outside the box. Now if we can just have similar competitors in the software market to force companies like EA to innovate as well, we'll be just fine.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Kodos

This is a Sony fanboy thread? As far as I can tell, there is only one guy in the thread who is a Sony fanboy.

Make that 2.

[dixieflatline]

Well this seems like as good of a place as any to put this. November console sales in the US:

DS 918,000
PS2 664,000
GBA 641,000
Xbox 360 511,000
Wii 476,000
PSP 412,000
PS3 197,000

So much for Sony having 400,000 PS3 available on release. Honestly, if I am microsoft I am none to pleased with these numbers. Maybe the Wii will end in 3rd place but with the DS and the GBA still going strong I think there is still a future for Nintendo. Lastly, this makes me wonder if Sony really needed to release the PS3. I wonder if a better business model would have been to ride the PS2 out then release the PS3 in a couple of years when nobody else had a model coming out.

[wade moore]

I think anyone that argues there is not a future for Nintendo doesn't know what they're talking about.

Will they compete in sales with XBOX and PS3? Probably not. But I think they realized that they could make their money by providing an alternative that would make them a ton of money as a company. I'd really be interested to see the difference in profit/loss per console by Nintendo compared to M$ and Sony, I would think that Nintendo's is much better as this is barely an upgrade on the GameCube.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by dixieflatline

Well this seems like as good of a place as any to put this. November console sales in the US:

DS 918,000
PS2 664,000
GBA 641,000
Xbox 360 511,000
Wii 476,000
PSP 412,000
PS3 197,000

So much for Sony having 400,000 PS3 available on release. Honestly, if I am microsoft I am none to pleased with these numbers. Maybe the Wii will end in 3rd place but with the DS and the GBA still going strong I think there is still a future for Nintendo. Lastly, this makes me wonder if Sony really needed to release the PS3. I wonder if a better business model would have been to ride the PS2 out then release the PS3 in a couple of years when nobody else had a model coming out.

I think the PS3 was more about trying to force Blu Ray to the top, and less about the console buisiness right now. Figure if it becomes the dominant standard, they are talking about getting a dollar or two per dvd in royalties. Which ads up.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I think anyone that argues there is not a future for Nintendo doesn't know what they're talking about.

Will they compete in sales with XBOX and PS3? Probably not. But I think they realized that they could make their money by providing an alternative that would make them a ton of money as a company. I'd really be interested to see the difference in profit/loss per console by Nintendo compared to M$ and Sony, I would think that Nintendo's is much better as this is barely an upgrade on the GameCube.

Oh, I think they'll sell more than the 360 and the PS3. I think by the end of next year the Wii will have caught the 360 and be the most owned system in the land.

And I don't think MS is especially concerned about the numbers. They are showing strong sales with their system, even with two launch systems coming out at the same time. It shows they are keeping a solid footing.

The PS2 sales in this are the interesting thing here. It shows a lot of people would just rather have the price point and the large library of games as opposed to anything else on the market. (you aren't buying a PS2 for future releases, because there is only a limited number coming out)

I still think Sony will end up #3 in this generation of systems. I have from E3 on and nothing I've seen has caused me to change my mind. Only a sudden huge demand for Blu-Ray will turn that tide IMHO. Or a major price cut.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'd really be interested to see the difference in profit/loss per console by Nintendo compared to M$ and Sony, I would think that Nintendo's is much better as this is barely an upgrade on the GameCube.

I'll try to find the article later today, but I know I read somewhere that Wii's are making a profit per console from day 1! Of course, neither the 360 nor the PS3 were/are doing that (although as previously mentioned 360's are now making about a 75 dollar/console profit.)

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'll try to find the article later today, but I know I read somewhere that Wii's are making a profit per console from day 1! Of course, neither the 360 nor the PS3 were/are doing that (although as previously mentioned 360's are now making about a 75 dollar/console profit.)

Doesn't surprise me - from a hardware perspective, the Wii isn't much of an advance beyond the Gamecube (which itself was not as powerful as the Xbox and arguably the PS2). Nintendo decided to focus even more on innovative gameplay and lower price point this time around, and it's allowing them to be a lot more profitable from day 1.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Doesn't surprise me - from a hardware perspective, the Wii isn't much of an advance beyond the Gamecube (which itself was not as powerful as the Xbox and arguably the PS2). Nintendo decided to focus even more on innovative gameplay and lower price point this time around, and it's allowing them to be a lot more profitable from day 1.

Yeah, that was my basic point. While this doesn't make them a "powerhouse" in the high-end gaming market, this move ensures that between the Wii and the DS that I think they'll be a very viable, profitable company for years to come. I think it was a smart business move personally as Nintendo has a "kiddie" reputation that they haven't been able to shake that was going to make it very difficult to compete in the "high-end" market anyways.

They now have the "kiddie" market and the "fun alternative" market.. I imagine the Wii will be a secondary system in many households, but that still means it's being bought at decent numbers as these numbers show.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by wade moore

They now have the "kiddie" market and the "fun alternative" market.. I imagine the Wii will be a secondary system in many households, but that still means it's being bought at decent numbers as these numbers show.

I agree. My wife has never been much of a console gamer (except for the occasional RPG,) but she really wants us to get a Wii for our downstairs TV as a secondary console.

[Eaglesfan27]

An excerpt from the New Yorker:

The Wii has few bells and whistles and much less processing power than its “competitors,” and it features less impressive graphics. It’s really well suited for just one thing: playing games. But this turns out to be an asset. The Wii’s simplicity means that Nintendo can make money selling consoles, while Sony is reportedly losing more than two hundred and forty dollars on each PlayStation 3 it sells—even though they are selling for almost six hundred dollars.


Also, these are the figures I've seen on several tech related sites:

Sony (SNE) will lose $241.35 on every PlayStation 3 game console it sells at $599, and $306.85 on every console it sells with a smaller hard drive at $499, according to an analysis of the component costs conducted by iSuppli, a research firm.


Most of the sites say that the Wii only makes 12 dollars/console at launch, but that is certainly better than the early loss of other companies.