Katrina hits Category 5.

[DaddyTorgo]

jesus. from the interdictor posts it seems like the goddamn third world down there. it's amazing how little times it takes people to revert back to a "primitive" state after something like this. truly truly frightening. i don't even know what to say, the magnitude of the destruction and suffering just has me...speechless.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Dutch is there anything you need?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Hillside Apartments
9250 Dean Road


Apparently it is in the Southwest side of Shreveport. I was told it was only 15-20 minutes from the medical school.

Sounds like you got a plan together. Will your wife have to look for a new place of employment?

[Galaxy]

Found this somewhat weird, working on a hotel business paper, regarding the luxury chains (Four Seasons, Ritz-Carlton), and on the Ritz site, the pages for the New Orleans hotels (they have two) are just weird. http://www.ritzcarlton.com/corporate...ns/default.asp

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Dutch is there anything you need?

I thought I heard him say he needed naked pics of pregnant women, but that could have just been sovreignstar mumbling in the bathroom.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Sounds like you got a plan together. Will your wife have to look for a new place of employment?

That is the plan. She has enough of a resume and experience that she'll hopefully get a job cooking somewhere in the city. Hopefully, I'll be able to see private patients or work at a clinic in the city or the surrounding area.

[Flasch186]

Listening to CNN. this is Heartwrenching. I cannot believe that in our country we cant get enough help in there to these people. We are sitting back while they die...

They keep saying its "too unsafe" to go help them.....well of course. the people are desperate to live and are acting in desperation!!!

This is awful. They have to just go in there!!!

[Buzzbee]

Ok Eaglesfan, I just gotta know...was your trip to Little Rock a date?


And did you get out of cleaning the bathrooms?

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Listening to CNN. this is Heartwrenching. I cannot believe that in our country we cant get enough help in there to these people. We are sitting back while they die...

They keep saying its "too unsafe" to go help them.....well of course. the people are desperate to live and are acting in desperation!!!

This is awful. They have to just go in there!!!

You first, cowboy.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

You first, cowboy.

obviously not me, asshat, those that are trained. The people that are sitting on the outskirts "planning". Or shifting their plan from search and rescue to security...They HAVE to go get them or they will die!! Its not hard to understand!! Why cant they drop food and water in....thats easy to do.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

I thought I heard him say he needed naked pics of pregnant women, but that could have just been sovreignstar mumbling in the bathroom.

lol, actually, *I* don't need anything.

Those folks that are here? I think northern Louisiana is the best place for residents of N.O. to go. The people here still associate with the folks of New Orleans as their own Louisiana folks, so the support is very strong.

About 4 of us from my squadron were ready to jump into a truck and drive to New Orleans yesterday but the cops talked us out of it.

"What they don't need is more warm bodies to take care of down there. They need people with certain skills. Security, search and rescue, doctors, nurses."

And what can people away from Louisiana do? Private donations are the absolute best, you can give it to anybody, but the Red Cross is probably one of the most organized groups out there to donate money to. You would be amazed how far a 20 dollar bill will go when the Red Cross is using it.

[Flasch186]

Total Collected: $9,967,300 Number of Donors: 68,970

[Flasch186]

that is the Red Cross's donations thus far through yahoo.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

obviously not me, asshat, those that are trained. The people that are sitting on the outskirts "planning". Or shifting their plan from search and rescue to security...They HAVE to go get them or they will die!! Its not hard to understand!!

People dying. We should go in to save them. Except when we do, we get shot and die. Then we die and they die. Brilliant!



Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying efforts shouldn't be made to save people where possible. However, those efforts do need to be worth the risk.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Hillside Apartments
9250 Dean Road


Apparently it is in the Southwest side of Shreveport. I was told it was only 15-20 minutes from the medical school.

I am not familiar with that area. Sounds like it's on the other side of the airport which is pretty far away from me. I'm on the other side of the Red River to the east.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

People dying. We should go in to save them. Except when we do, we get shot and die. Then we die and they die. Brilliant!



Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying efforts shouldn't be made to save people where possible. However, those efforts do need to be worth the risk.

Again, food and water drops are easy and cost effective.

[JeeberD]

You think that those with the guns aren't just going to horde it all, Flasch?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

You think that those with the guns aren't just going to horde it all, Flasch?

Beat me to it.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

obviously not me, asshat, those that are trained. The people that are sitting on the outskirts "planning". Or shifting their plan from search and rescue to security...They HAVE to go get them or they will die!! Its not hard to understand!! Why cant they drop food and water in....thats easy to do.

I assume you're willing to risk a significant amount of bloodshed against American civilians (lawless ones, mind you, but Americans nonetheless) and the attending flak that will no doubt eminate from certain quarters over the handling of the situation, particularly given who will be the most likely targets of NG or police personnel. That is the only surefire way to secure the situation, but it will not be tidy in the least.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Again, food and water drops are easy and cost effective.

But Flasch, they're trying to get people to leave the city. Not wait around for food and water.

[NoMyths]

President Bush appearing on television now with both former Presidents Bush Sr. and Clinton. Man.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Again, food and water drops are easy and cost effective.

Except that they are shooting at the choppers. The last plan was for the military to get there and take over relief efforts (since it's illegal in this country for them to operate militarily inside our borders), so the Guard and Police (who are legal) can establish security. But it takes time to get the military there.

Remember, it's barely 48 hours since the levies broke and everything went to pot, and I don't think anyone was expecting so many armed mobs this quickly.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Again, food and water drops are easy and cost effective.

I'm sure the gangs with guns will appreciate that.

Simply tossing in stuff for people to fight over won't necessarily help things. In areas where things are realtively secure or controlled, by all means. However, simply rushing in may lead to more problems than it solves. That's my point.

Simply wringing your hands and yelling 'do something, do something' doesn't mean that what gets done will help.

[NoMyths]

The major gas pipeline for the East Coast is back online, but only operating at 50% capacity.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

The major gas pipeline for the East Coast is back online, but only operating at 50% capacity.

So I guess it is a half pipe.


Ba-dum-bump



*groan*

[WSUCougar]

My god, this is tragedy on a massive scale...

From CNN.com

Stories of heartbreak and hope in Katrina's wake

Editor's Note: CNN correspondents report back on what they are seeing in New Orleans and other Gulf Coast communities hit by Hurricane Katrina.

CNN's Ted Rowlands in Biloxi, Mississippi

It is a heartbreaking situation in Biloxi, Mississippi, but it pales in comparison to what is happening in New Orleans. There is calm here. There is little unrest.

Additionally, there are some signs that help has arrived. But it is a huge endeavor to clean this area. Most of the structures along the coast have been completely demolished.

The clear difference between Biloxi and New Orleans is that the bodies that are turning up here have been dead for a number of days. They are being found in houses. They were killed in the initial rush of the storm.

It isn't bodies in streets. The destruction isn't in a concentrated area. We are talking about pockets of pain in a hundred mile stretch of shore.

Guard gathering in Baton Rouge
Posted: 1:20 p.m. ET
CNN's Deborah Feyerick in Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Right now, the main priority is to restore order to New Orleans.

One official told us, "You can't rescue people when you're being shot at."

There are hundreds of people from the National Guard here in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. We're seeing people from all the agencies. They're waiting to deploy.

Their sense is that the condition inside New Orleans is so unstable they don't want to be sending people into harm's way.

Some state officials, though, have been getting into the center of town.

One of them, for example, got in with a bus. He saw one woman who was so desperate she actually handed her 2-month-old baby to another woman and said, "Take my child. I can't get on this bus, but you've got to try to save the child."

The woman promised her she would take care of that baby.

Living like animals
Posted: 1:07 p.m. ET
CNN's Chris Lawrence in New Orleans, Louisiana

It's hard to believe this is New Orleans.

We spent the last few hours at the New Orleans Convention Center. There are thousands of people lying in the street.

We saw mothers holding babies, some of them just three, four and five months old, living in horrible conditions. Diapers littered the ground. Feces were on the ground. Sewage was spilled all around.

These people are being forced to live like animals. When you look at the mothers, your heart just breaks.

Some of the images we have gathered are very, very graphic.

We saw dead bodies. People are dying at the center and there is no one to get them. We saw a grandmother in a wheelchair pushed up to the wall and covered with a sheet. Right next to her was another dead body wrapped in a white sheet.

Right in front of us a man went into a seizure on the ground. No one here has medical training. There is nowhere to evacuate these people to.

People have been sitting there without food and water and waiting. They are asking -- "When are the buses coming? When are they coming to help us?"

We just had to say we don't know.

The people tell us that National Guard units have come by as a show of force. They have tossed some military rations out. People are eating potato chips to survive and are looting some of the stores nearby for food and drink. It is not the kind of food these people need.

They are saying, "Don't leave us here to die. We are stuck here. Why can't they send the buses? Are they going to leave us here to die?"

'We have to deal with the living'
Posted: 10:49 a.m. ET
CNN's Rick Sanchez in Metairie, Louisiana

We spent the night at the New Orleans Saints' training facility. It is the encampment for the FEMA officials and National Guard troops who will deploy out to certain areas.

They just deployed a new unit out here from California. They're called swift water operation rescue units. These folks are trained to go in and get people out of the homes that they have been stuck in for days now with water all around.

We were with a unit last night on a boat. We watched as they performed many of these rescues. It's quite a sight to see. Bodies are floating along the flooded road. And I asked them, "What do you do about that?" They said, "There's no time to deal with them now. We have to deal with the living."

We went off into many communities to see if we could find people. As we were navigating through these narrow areas with power lines and all kinds of obstructions above and below us, we suddenly heard faint screams coming from homes. People were yelling, "Help! Help!"

We found one elderly woman in one home. She told us, "I've been here and I need to get out. Can you get me?" Then she said, "But there are people next door and they have babies, so leave me until morning. Get them out now."

So we contacted the swift water rescue units and they went out there. To our surprise and their surprise there were no fewer than 15 people huddled in their home. We could only hear them. We couldn't see them. We were able to assist and get the right people over there to get them out.

Just like them, there may be literally thousands that need to be rescued. It's a very daunting task for these officials.

Chaos at the convention center
Posted: 10:02 a.m. ET
CNN's Jim Spellman in New Orleans, Louisiana

I don't think I really have the vocabulary for this situation.

We just heard a couple of gunshots go off. There's a building smoldering a block away. People are picking through whatever is left in the stores right now. They are walking the streets because they have nowhere else to go.

Right now, I'm a few blocks away from the New Orleans Convention Center area. We drove through there earlier, and it was unbelievable. Thousands and thousands and thousands of people spent the night sleeping on the street, on the sidewalk, on the median.

The convention center is a place that people were told to go to because it would be safe. In fact, it is a scene of anarchy.

There is absolutely nobody in control. There is no National Guard, no police, no information to be had.

The convention center is next to the Mississippi River. Many people who are sleeping there feel that a boat is going to come and get them. Or they think a bus is going to come. But no buses have come. No boats have come. They think water is going come. No water has come. And they have no food.

As we drove by, people screamed out to us -- "Do you have water? Do you have food? Do you have any information for us?"

We had none of those.

Probably the most disturbing thing is that people at the convention center are starting to pass away and there is simply nothing to do with their bodies. There is nowhere to put them. There is no one who can do anything with them. This is making everybody very, very upset.

[NoMyths]

"Don't buy gas if you don't need it." --President Bush

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

Ok Eaglesfan, I just gotta know...was your trip to Little Rock a date?


And did you get out of cleaning the bathrooms?

Brilliant post

SI

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

FEMA is hiring for their call center in MD. They're paying $15/hour. Looking for 400 people.

http://hurricaid.com/2005/09/fema_needs_people.php

[DaddyTorgo]

powerful stuff just now on CNN, viewer e-mails responding to "how would you rate the response of the federal government to this disaster." I won't summarize cuz i don't want to threadjack this into a political thread, but one thing really struck me. one viewer pointed out:

"we can invade a country on the other side of the world but we can't drop bottled water from a helicopter onto a street in New Orleans." too true...too true.

this is not my America. How were we not better prepared for this? Republicans...Democrats, whatever. We knew this was liable to happen at some point, the fact that we were not better prepared is simply inexcusable.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

Ok Eaglesfan, I just gotta know...was your trip to Little Rock a date?


And did you get out of cleaning the bathrooms?

There has been some great quality time here in Little Rock, but it is certainly not a date

Fortunately, I put off cleaning the bathrooms, so I did get out of cleaning the bathroom. There is a small bright side to everything

[GoldenEagle]

Can Bush authorize the real military to go in there? The ones that are trained in urban warfare? Are there any troops available that fit that description or are they committed to other fronts? That is what this is becoming, urban warfare.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dutch, that is a good point about Shreveport being a good place to go with people being supportive. Hopefully, someone will show some kindness and hire a chef even if she might only be there for 2-3 months. Also, I know a few of the staff at LSU-Shreveport Psychiatry department so hopefully they can help me with work.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

powerful stuff just now on CNN, viewer e-mails responding to "how would you rate the response of the federal government to this disaster." I won't summarize cuz i don't want to threadjack this into a political thread, but one thing really struck me. one viewer pointed out:

"we can invade a country on the other side of the world but we can't drop bottled water from a helicopter onto a street in New Orleans." too true...too true.

this is not my America. How were we not better prepared for this? Republicans...Democrats, whatever. We knew this was liable to happen at some point, the fact that we were not better prepared is simply inexcusable.

Yes. I hope people see the difference between prediction and preparedness. Of course you cannot predict the exact moment a levee will break just as we could not predict that people would fly planes into the WTC. Also, you can't expect large-scale disaster relief to run smoothly. But, especially considering the amounts of resources being plied into homeland security these days, it really is a wonder why disaster preparedness wasn't better than it was...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

FEMA is hiring for their call center in MD. They're paying $15/hour. Looking for 400 people.

http://hurricaid.com/2005/09/fema_needs_people.php

Damn. And me in Kansas

SI

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Can Bush authorize the real military to go in there? The ones that are trained in urban warfare? Are there any troops available that fit that description or are they committed to other fronts? That is what this is becoming, urban warfare.

I'm pretty sure that legally, he can not.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

There has been some great quality time here in Little Rock, but it is certainly not a date

Fortunately, I put off cleaning the bathrooms, so I did get out of cleaning the bathroom. There is a small bright side to everything

Just wait until you get back and she tells you that you have to clean the whole house because you didn't finish before

SI

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

powerful stuff just now on CNN, viewer e-mails responding to "how would you rate the response of the federal government to this disaster." I won't summarize cuz i don't want to threadjack this into a political thread, but one thing really struck me. one viewer pointed out:

"we can invade a country on the other side of the world but we can't drop bottled water from a helicopter onto a street in New Orleans." too true...too true.

this is not my America. How were we not better prepared for this? Republicans...Democrats, whatever. We knew this was liable to happen at some point, the fact that we were not better prepared is simply inexcusable.

My only question to you is:

What did you do to prepare for this?

Also, invading another country took months, if not years to do, and there are many that would claim it still wasn't done properly. Comparing the two is simply grasping at straws.

[Eaglesfan27]

WSUCougar, that post made me laugh and I was about to reply to it, but it looks like you deleted it. Anyway, I took it in the humorous light that it was intended

[sterlingice]

I've been trying to figure this out the last couple of days. Where is WWL operating out of? Do they have a spot in outlying New Orleans or did they move to a nearby city or what?

SI

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Fortunately, I put off cleaning the bathrooms, so I did get out of cleaning the bathroom. There is a small bright side to everything

Just imagine the cleanup job you'll have when you get to go back, though!

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I'm pretty sure that legally, he can not.

I don't know the details, but I have heard several people say that.

A time of crisis is not the time to change the rules, but I wonder if after this has blown over we might not want to revisit that. Maybe allow the President with the approval of 3/4 of both houses of congress to authorize domestic military use for a limited period of time.

There are huge pros and cons to a proposal like that, and now is NOT the time to debate them. But when things cool down, it may be a subject worth visiting.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

My only question to you is:

What did you do to prepare for this?

Also, invading another country took months, if not years to do, and there are many that would claim it still wasn't done properly. Comparing the two is simply grasping at straws.

But the related point can be made about homeland security. Looking at the news and the people giving interviews, it does seem that the NO situation does fall under the jurisdiction of homeland security, at least somewhat. If homeland security is not fully up to speed with this disaster, it does leave a few question marks about their potential performance in the aftermath of a large-scale terrorist attack.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Dutch, that is a good point about Shreveport being a good place to go with people being supportive. Hopefully, someone will show some kindness and hire a chef even if she might only be there for 2-3 months. Also, I know a few of the staff at LSU-Shreveport Psychiatry department so hopefully they can help me with work.

They could use some good cajun chef's. All they know how to do up here is shoot the food, not cook it.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

I'm sure the gangs with guns will appreciate that.

Simply tossing in stuff for people to fight over won't necessarily help things. In areas where things are realtively secure or controlled, by all means. However, simply rushing in may lead to more problems than it solves. That's my point.

Simply wringing your hands and yelling 'do something, do something' doesn't mean that what gets done will help.

better than nothin'...letting people keel over from dehydration is unacceptable no matter what. Yes, go in, militarily shoot anyone who shoots at you but right behind the front line troops should be pils of water and food. Most of the tropps will begreeted with flowers and cheering...sound familiar.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

My only question to you is:

What did you do to prepare for this?

Also, invading another country took months, if not years to do, and there are many that would claim it still wasn't done properly. Comparing the two is simply grasping at straws.

buzzbee, don't split hairs. I was using the communal "we" and not the personal "we." I paid my taxes though to help prepare for it, how about that? Fine, how was "the government" not better prepared for this? FEMA had scenarios about this, and now we find out that there is still plenty that they cannot do. Why?

[Klinglerware]

I'm sure this has been posted before, but it couldn't hurt to post it again. It has links to resources for victims, people looking to help, and people looking for missing loved ones.

http://www.firstgov.gov/Citizen/Topi...-resources-vgn

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

But the related point can be made about homeland security. Looking at the news and the people giving interviews, it does seem that the NO situation does fall under the jurisdiction of homeland security, at least somewhat. If homeland security is not fully up to speed with this disaster, it does leave a few question marks about their potential performance in the aftermath of a large-scale terrorist attack.

I don't disagree. However, for DT to state that this is not my America, and that to not be better prepared is inexcusable is just a bit dramatic.

It is pretty obvious that a great many people knew this was a possibility. Hell, I lived there ten years ago and people knew it. So, why weren't we better prepared? Good question, and one that probably won't ever be fully answered, but will be analyzed pretty heavily.

I guess I'm not as suprised as others that we weren't prepared for this. Yes, we knew it was a distinct possibility, but would we realistically prepared for such a catastrophic event, and stayed at the ready to deal with it? Not likely. Better prepared, yes. Prepared? No way in hell.

[sterlingice]

Geez, WWL does so much better coverage. You can tell the concern and awe is genuine, even if it's local quality news. Now they're just showing some video they just got in from the Mississippi coast where it's a neighborhood with big, rich houses and if not for things like a pool in the backyard or maybe fine tile floors, you'd never know there were houses there. The anchors are just in awe and the video is just mind boggling: "There are no landmarks or anything there- it's impossible to tell where it was taken"

SI

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

buzzbee, don't split hairs. I was using the communal "we" and not the personal "we." I paid my taxes though to help prepare for it, how about that? Fine, how was "the government" not better prepared for this? FEMA had scenarios about this, and now we find out that there is still plenty that they cannot do. Why?

A valid question and one I'm sure will be analyzed quite extensively. My guess is that there is simply no way to prepare for a disaster of this scope. Could they have been better prepared? Of course, but to call the lack of preparation inexcusable is just a bit off base, IMO. I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but rather your delivery.