2005-06 Soccer Thread

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. As a side, I'm now in a cash pool for next year's Premier & the World Cup, with several hundred people playing and over a thousand dollars to the top finishers.

One of exactly 2 Americans in the pool.

[law90026]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

BTW maybe Im a little late but who was the ref for the UEFA championship game? IS that typical for him?

if you're talking about the Champion's League final, no idea. But he was abysmal Of course, the referee's association has defended him but he really ruined the finals IMO.

This of course follows on from the fact that one of the linesmen for the finals took a photo in a Barca jersey ... then was replaced just before the finals.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Goddamn, the Revs took the first 25 minutes of the game off againt FC Dallas, and they got hided for it, 4-0. :/

Way to go, Houston could have used a Dallas loss there.

I was at the Chicago-Houston game. I think I now understand why people riot in Europe. That was the most frustrating sporting event I have ever been to. IMO Houston controlled most of that game. A fuck up on defense allows a 'break away' on goal for Chicago and they get te 1-0 lead. Houston just can't finish anything the whole game despite getting the shots.

And that finish. Oh crap that ending just about killed me. A crap disallowed goal that would have tied it up. End then the header off the crossbar in stoppage time.

[Cringer]

Dola-

A couple more things about that game. Dynamo could have used Ching. Moreno and Cerritos had a hard time against the bigger Chicago defenders. I know size isn't everything in this sport, but it seemed to make a difference here. The Dynamo had their best play from the midfielders and defenders coming up.

De Rosario made me a fan of his in this game.

I don't know, that was the impression I got at the game. Maybe it came off different on TV.

[Chief Rum]

Wow, the Gunners reportedly turned down not one, but two $94 M (73M Euro) offers for Henry. The offers came from Barca and Real (what a shock).

Look, I know Henry is a good to Arsenal fans, but seriously, if you're skirting the edge of Champions League play as they were this year, I say thanks for the memories, Thierry, and bonne chance en Espagne.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wow, the Gunners reportedly turned down not one, but two $94 M (73M Euro) offers for Henry. The offers came from Barca and Real (what a shock).

Looks like Arsenal are flashing about the cash to get ready for the new stadium. Turning down silly money for Henry, now it seems they've stepped in and are ready to snatch Tomas Rosicky after his move to Atletico Madrid hit a snag. Apparently he's already passed a medical.

Rosicky would be a great addition for them, could mean the end for another midfielder though. Maybe Reyes back to Spain?

Sol Campbell to Fenerbache for a final payday is rumored too, big money to pad out his retirement fund.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Way to go, Houston could have used a Dallas loss there.

well, if we play that way this weekend when you guys are up here, it'll even out :/

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wow, the Gunners reportedly turned down not one, but two $94 M (73M Euro) offers for Henry. The offers came from Barca and Real (what a shock).

Look, I know Henry is a good to Arsenal fans, but seriously, if you're skirting the edge of Champions League play as they were this year, I say thanks for the memories, Thierry, and bonne chance en Espagne.

At some point though, no matter how much is offered, you have to keep the face of your franchise. Its more than just getting a ton of great players in return, but dealing a fan favorite as you move into a new stadium (and are seen as having more than enough money) just doesn't sit well with the base.

[Fighter of Foo]

Rosicky will take Bergkamp's spot and play more as a withdrawn striker/attacking midfielder. Pires is gone to Villareal, so Reyes will play more out on the wing.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

well, if we play that way this weekend when you guys are up here, it'll even out :/

I meant to mention this weekends game between Houston and the Revs. I am thinking I will break down and get mls.tv when I get home at the end of the week.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wow, the Gunners reportedly turned down not one, but two $94 M (73M Euro) offers for Henry. The offers came from Barca and Real (what a shock).

Look, I know Henry is a good to Arsenal fans, but seriously, if you're skirting the edge of Champions League play as they were this year, I say thanks for the memories, Thierry, and bonne chance en Espagne.

Sentimentality can cloud your judgement and, perhaps, cause you to make financially unsound decisions. I would have made the same one as Peter Hill-Wood and Arsene Wenger (in their shoes).

On the other hand, as Isiddiqui, Henry IS the face of the franchise. I don't know what kind of financial ramification having him lead the team out at Ashburton Grove is or would be but it is huge for the name, face and reputation of the club. Especially one that seeks to be on the same level as the United and Real of the G-14 world. Additionally, with Henry on board, the club has a shot at making that money back in the Champion's League in, probably, 2-3 years. Last, but not least, is the inability to use that money to replace him. The likes of Sheva or Ronaldinho are going nowhere which leaves Wenger trying to buy young (and hope to develop) to replace Henry* or splash the cash unnecessarily for names like a Torres.

*I consider this to be different than spending money on a Walcott as I would consider it an investment in the future to "improve" the team (assuming he pans out) rather than spending to try to prevent sliding backward.

Of course, I am bias as I enjoy watching Henry score his video game goals in Arsenal red-and-white. And even yellow. Ugh, yellow.

On that topic, Arsenal fans on the BigSoccer boards seem to prefer the yellow to the blue as they say that we have had better seasons in the yellow. Ugh, yellow.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I meant to mention this weekends game between Houston and the Revs. I am thinking I will break down and get mls.tv when I get home at the end of the week.

I bought this a while ago and really enjoy it. Absolutely no quality problems this past weekend.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by daedalus

On that topic, Arsenal fans on the BigSoccer boards seem to prefer the yellow to the blue as they say that we have had better seasons in the yellow. Ugh, yellow.

I like the yellow Arsenal shirt. Arsenal have always worn a yellow away shirt as far as I can remember, apart from a few seasons in the early 00s where they wore that shocking blue/grey kit.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by daedalus

On the other hand, as Isiddiqui, Henry IS the face of the franchise. I don't know what kind of financial ramification having him lead the team out at Ashburton Grove is or would be but it is huge for the name, face and reputation of the club. Especially one that seeks to be on the same level as the United and Real of the G-14 world. Additionally, with Henry on board, the club has a shot at making that money back in the Champion's League in, probably, 2-3 years. Last, but not least, is the inability to use that money to replace him. The likes of Sheva or Ronaldinho are going nowhere which leaves Wenger trying to buy young (and hope to develop) to replace Henry* or splash the cash unnecessarily for names like a Torres.

Well said! There are too many variables with selling Henry. There may indeed be an initial drop in merchandise sales and perhaps a load of angry fans who's favorite player just got dealt. And who replaces him? Which top tier striker are you going to get? And while we do like the 'team' concept to be thought of as "BIG TIME", you have to have a superstar. Someone that can be considered identical to 'the club'. When you think Arsenal, you think Henry. Considerations like that make it very difficult to sell Henry.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well said! There are too many variables with selling Henry. There may indeed be an initial drop in merchandise sales and perhaps a load of angry fans who's favorite player just got dealt. And who replaces him? Which top tier striker are you going to get? And while we do like the 'team' concept to be thought of as "BIG TIME", you have to have a superstar. Someone that can be considered identical to 'the club'. When you think Arsenal, you think Henry. Considerations like that make it very difficult to sell Henry.

I understand completely what you and daedalus are saying. But, sheesh, that is a lot of money, and as I pointed out, the Gunners flirted with not even making the CL next year, despite their success in it this year. That has to worry management abit. Maybe if I didn't go in with a plan, I wouldn;t do it, but if I identified some targets beforehand, why not? With that kind of money, you could go out and get someone like Torres, someone who could be on the receiving end of Cesc and Reyes passes for a decade, and still have money left over to nab the next young Vieira, whom they really missed last season, and a good young CB to prepare for Campbell's departure.

But that's off of the top of my head, and from a completely unattached point of view.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I like the yellow Arsenal shirt. Arsenal have always worn a yellow away shirt as far as I can remember, apart from a few seasons in the early 00s where they wore that shocking blue/grey kit.

Recently, they seem to have been alternating the alternate (tee-hee!) kit each year. With the 49 games unbeaten and this year's CL run coming in yellow kit years supporting some people's claim that the yellow kit is better for the club.

I rather like the look of the blue.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I understand completely what you and daedalus are saying. But, sheesh, that is a lot of money, and as I pointed out, the Gunners flirted with not even making the CL next year, despite their success in it this year. That has to worry management abit. Maybe if I didn't go in with a plan, I wouldn;t do it, but if I identified some targets beforehand, why not? With that kind of money, you could go out and get someone like Torres, someone who could be on the receiving end of Cesc and Reyes passes for a decade, and still have money left over to nab the next young Vieira, whom they really missed last season, and a good young CB to prepare for Campbell's departure.

But that's off of the top of my head, and from a completely unattached point of view.

I think that for some team, not making the Champion's League is a complete disaster. Leeds being a very good example of this unfortunate situation. Happily, through Wenger's vision and planning, I believe we could have survived being out of Champion's League competition (and, more importantly, money) for one year. (Living with the Spuds being in instead of us is an entirely different issue.) Obviously, competing in and receiving money from Champion's League is preferrable. And having Henry would give us a better chance to be back into the top 4 and making money afterward.

And, of course, it does not hurt that I am completely and utterly biased and am a big fan of Henry.

I do not get to watch La Liga very much and rarely ever get to watch Torres. I would wonder if he would be the best choice for a replacement, given the difficult transition from La Liga to the premiership.

We missed out on the current "next Vieira" when Yaya could not get his permit. But I think we had another in Abou Diaby . . . at least until that USELESS, TALENTLESS, BRAINLESS AND WORTHLESS PIECE OF DAY OLD DRIED UP DEAD GOAT FECES from Sunderland wrecked his ankle (prior to fading into oblivion). No, no, I'm not bitter or anything. I'm quite calm.

Regardless, I think we need a defensive midfielder/ball winner to partner with Cesc (and, in any case, Diaby was not it) but I am not sure Le Boss sees it the same way. Gilberto Silva is a good "invisible wall" when we are in our 4-5-1 (I'm pretending that his giveaway that caused Jens' red card does not exist) but he does not make a good partner for Cesc in the 4-4-2.

I am relatively okay with our centreback situation given Kolo's ability to partner with Senderos and Djourou progressing well (our 3rd teenager at the World Cup, I believe we are the only club able to make that claim). Obviously, I would not mind Curtis Davies or, less likely, Vincent Kompany thrown in the mix but I am okay to go into next season with what we have.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by daedalus

I am relatively okay with our centreback situation given Kolo's ability to partner with Senderos and Djourou progressing well (our 3rd teenager at the World Cup, I believe we are the only club able to make that claim). Obviously, I would not mind Curtis Davies or, less likely, Vincent Kompany thrown in the mix but I am okay to go into next season with what we have.

Not only would I not mind him but I'd find it kind of sweet because, you know, he's a former Luton Town Hatter

FM

[law90026]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I understand completely what you and daedalus are saying. But, sheesh, that is a lot of money, and as I pointed out, the Gunners flirted with not even making the CL next year, despite their success in it this year. That has to worry management abit. Maybe if I didn't go in with a plan, I wouldn;t do it, but if I identified some targets beforehand, why not? With that kind of money, you could go out and get someone like Torres, someone who could be on the receiving end of Cesc and Reyes passes for a decade, and still have money left over to nab the next young Vieira, whom they really missed last season, and a good young CB to prepare for Campbell's departure.

But that's off of the top of my head, and from a completely unattached point of view.

One thing to bear in mind is that this was a transition year for Arsenal. Anyone who thought otherwise was being unrealistic. With the sale of Viera before the season starting and no replacement being brought in, it was little wonder Arsenal started in shaky fashion. Quite frankly, the Arsenal in the last third of the season was slowly getting back into its previously awesome form and, if it continues, Arsenal will be right back there challenging for the title.

The other thing about selling the star player (Henry in this case) is that it leads to new problems. First, can a replacement be found? Sure, there are always "name" players out there that can be acquired but these players would be equally over-priced, especially since the club would know that Arsenal had tons of cash to spend. Look at how Chelsea has to overspend when they want a player as an example.

Second, there is never any real guarantee that a "name" player will settle down. There have been sterling examples over the past years. Look at Bergkamp during his Inter years, Kuivert at Newcastle, Drogba at Chelsea (arguable but I don't think he justifies his price). The risk of losing your best player (one of the best in the world btw) for another player ... not worth it in this case.

Third, there's no such thing as the next "young" player. So much of this is hype. Sure, some players may appear to have tons of potential but it isn't always fulfilled. Look at Sinima-Pongolle in Liverpool, who was regarded as the next big thing when he played in the U16s. He hasn't panned out at all.

I think Arsenal did the right thing. They kept one of the best players in the world and they have a huge stadium in place. The future looks bright

PS: Arsenal fan here, so I may be a tad biased :P

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Wow, the Gunners reportedly turned down not one, but two $94 M (73M Euro) offers for Henry. The offers came from Barca and Real (what a shock).

Look, I know Henry is a good to Arsenal fans, but seriously, if you're skirting the edge of Champions League play as they were this year, I say thanks for the memories, Thierry, and bonne chance en Espagne.

Not worth the risk to sell him imho - with Henry Arsenal have been consistently achieving a place in the Champions League, this nets them on average around £30m a year ... as such unless they could guarentee his replacement was going to be consistent enough to ensure that this continued (and strikers are notoriously hot/cold at times when settling into new clubs, something Arsenal can't afford to happen realistically - they were already touch and go for the CL this year).

(also remember that transfer money isn't 'pure profit' for a club, there are tax ramifacations etc. to transfers (and yes these are modelled in FM thanks for asking ))

[Chief Rum]

heh heh well, I guess I'm in the minority.

Glad to see some serious discussion, though, about top league footy.

Okay, who wants to take a crack on what Boro should do to get back to Europe?

[bulletsponge]

(also remember that transfer money isn't 'pure profit' for a club, there are tax ramifacations etc. to transfers (and yes these are modelled in FM thanks for asking ))

so the damn tax man gets us in the game too

for nearly 100m i would sell henry. hes getting up there in age and thats a sh*t load of dough. for 100m they can buy several young promising players and groom them to be stars. hopefully one or 2 will become great players (thinking of Ben Arfa). they can fill several holes in their lineup while making 1 hole, but with the additions of other players they will offset.

i should note that im not an expert in soccer, but in almost every sport my answer would be the same. except more so in soccer cause there all more peeps who play it. as long as you dont expect one man to replace all Henry does and get several to carry the load it can work and make you a nice pile of money, which is what the business is about.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

heh heh well, I guess I'm in the minority.

Glad to see some serious discussion, though, about top league footy.

Okay, who wants to take a crack on what Boro should do to get back to Europe?

Realistically ? Prayer.

[law90026]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

so the damn tax man gets us in the game too

for nearly 100m i would sell henry. hes getting up there in age and thats a sh*t load of dough. for 100m they can buy several young promising players and groom them to be stars. hopefully one or 2 will become great players (thinking of Ben Arfa). they can fill several holes in their lineup while making 1 hole, but with the additions of other players they will offset.

i should note that im not an expert in soccer, but in almost every sport my answer would be the same. except more so in soccer cause there all more peeps who play it. as long as you dont expect one man to replace all Henry does and get several to carry the load it can work and make you a nice pile of money, which is what the business is about.

Yeah, the same problem will arise. You're essentially praying that one of the young players will eventually be as good as Henry is at this time, which is exceedingly unlikely, considering how good Henry is.

Arsenal is, in fact, a great example of what selling a great player can do for a team, the player in question being Patrick Viera. Yes, he was getting a bit older, yes he didn't play as well last season, but he is still regarded as one of the best central midfielders in the world.

After his sale, the entire team clearly didn't play well for a long stretch of time. Near the end of the season, Arsenal finally got it together, mainly because of the emergence of Cesc Fabregas IMO. But it was a struggle and that's what the sale of Henry would do for Arsenal. The question is whether there is a player out there that could replace Henry and what he does for Arsenal.

One thing to remember is that football clubs are exceedingly dependent on their performances in various competitions. If they don't do well, it can spiral quickly into financial disaster (see Leeds United). Unlike American sports, where there is no relegation concept, football clubs fear being relegated because of the loss of TV revenue and gate receipts. For top-tier clubs, this also means qualification for Europe. Loss of revenue can be disastrous for football clubs.

As an example, I think the latest financial reports indicated that Arsenal earned a huge amount because of their extended run in the Champions League, more than double what Spurs earned (if I remember correctly it was in the vicinity of 20+ million pounds difference). So a bad season actually means significant dip in profits, which escalates into the inability to purchase new players and to refresh the team, which means a widening gap between you and other top teams. There is no salary cap in football.

So the question to be asked is whether 100 million is sufficient to off-set against all these factors. In this case, I would say no, simply because Henry is one of the best players in the world. You don't give up such a proven player for a chance of a youngster making it bid.

[ISiddiqui]

And Pires... is gone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...al/5015814.stm

[daedalus]

Too bad. Super Bob was a great player for us. Too bad he wants his 2-year deal instead of being willing to accept the yearly. Can't say I blame him, it's his business. The only bad part is that he left on such a sad note (coming off in the 18th minute). But I think he is leaving on good feelings from Arsenal fans.

Don't know that the same thing can be said about Sol when he leaves.

[daedalus]

As an aside, some have speculated that Rosicky will be replacing Bergkamp but I'm note so sure I agree with that. I have a feeling Rosicky will be replacing Pires instead. I know that Rosicky has been a central player but Wenger has a tendency to move players around. If I understand correctly, I believe Ljungberg was a central attacker before he moved to Arsenal. I believe Hleb is making the same conversion. Rosicky will probably drift into the center of the pitch where he is used to operate which will, basically, be the same way that Pires used to operate and leave the left-side channel open to Henry with Coles overlapping.

Assuming Cole stays, otherwise replace his name with Clichy.

[daedalus]

As an aside, I always thought it was odd for Barça to have been chasing Henry when I think Cole would fit their need much better. They don't need another striker where they could really use attacking fullbacks to provide more width to their attacks.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by daedalus

As an aside, some have speculated that Rosicky will be replacing Bergkamp but I'm note so sure I agree with that.

I agree that Rosicky isn't a replacement for Bergkamp as Bergkamp hasn't started in a league game since October, so a replacement for Bergkamp is going to sit on the bench. Maybe a replacment for Bergkamp's replacement?

If you take away the 4 defenders and the Gilberto/Diaby holding role, you're left with 5 vaguely attacking positions with Hleb, Fabregas, Reyes, Rosicky, Ljungberg, Henry, Walcott, Van Persie, Adebayor to fill them, plus Lupoli and maybe Bendtner are ready for first team experience too. That's more of a logjam of talent for attacking positions than even Chelsea have, so I still think somebody will be on the way out. Hleb was rumored to be unhappy earlier in the season, but I'd guess he got happier when he settled in and was starting every game, so my money is still on Reyes. He hasn't been the same player since the "I want to play for Real Madrid, people are horrible here" bit, although a chunk of that is down to injury I guess.

Compared with the midfield and attack, the defence looks good but not deep. With Campbell on the way out you've got to think they're lining up somebody for central defence, the aforementioned Kompany would be great. Strengthen central defence and keep Cole and they'll be back next year.

I'll just be glad when they get back to their proper colors and in a new stadium. I always hated the tv camera angle at Highbury, too low for me. It was also the only ground in the UK that I'd ever been thrown out of, so I'm glad it's gone

p.s. Hope the Arsenal fans caught the 1971 Arsenal v Liverpool cup final on FSC last night, great to see those old names again. What a player Charlie George was, when he was on his game.

[Desnudo]

The hairstyles in the 78 or 79 Arsenal-Man U final were horrific.

[law90026]

Originally Posted by Critch

I agree that Rosicky isn't a replacement for Bergkamp as Bergkamp hasn't started in a league game since October, so a replacement for Bergkamp is going to sit on the bench. Maybe a replacment for Bergkamp's replacement?

If you take away the 4 defenders and the Gilberto/Diaby holding role, you're left with 5 vaguely attacking positions with Hleb, Fabregas, Reyes, Rosicky, Ljungberg, Henry, Walcott, Van Persie, Adebayor to fill them, plus Lupoli and maybe Bendtner are ready for first team experience too. That's more of a logjam of talent for attacking positions than even Chelsea have, so I still think somebody will be on the way out. Hleb was rumored to be unhappy earlier in the season, but I'd guess he got happier when he settled in and was starting every game, so my money is still on Reyes. He hasn't been the same player since the "I want to play for Real Madrid, people are horrible here" bit, although a chunk of that is down to injury I guess.

Compared with the midfield and attack, the defence looks good but not deep. With Campbell on the way out you've got to think they're lining up somebody for central defence, the aforementioned Kompany would be great. Strengthen central defence and keep Cole and they'll be back next year.

Of the 5 attacking positions, there really are only 3 available IMO. Henry and Cesc are locks as starters, unless bad things happen during the world cup.

But as for Cole, if rumours are true (which is vehemently denied), he has a minimun release clause for 15 million pounds. If Real Madrid were to come in with such an offer, I think Cole should go, simply because Arsenal have 2 decent replacements for him in Clichy and Flamini. This is a sale that would make sense IMO and those funds could be used to either splash out on another big name (apparently Arsenal are after Owen, though we seem to hear that every year) or some youngsters for the future.

The one concern I have about Arsenal is that the youngsters nearly never get an opportunity to play, Fabregas and Van Persie being an exception. Lupoli has hardly ever featured, Upson left for Birmingham, Quincy left for Moscow ... I wonder if it's because:
1) the first team is so awesome that no youngster could step in unless said youngster was equally awesome;
2) so much pressure to win that the youngsters can't be fielded; or
3) the youngsters simply aren't good enough.

[condors]

Originally Posted by law90026

The one concern I have about Arsenal is that the youngsters nearly never get an opportunity to play, Fabregas and Van Persie being an exception. Lupoli has hardly ever featured, Upson left for Birmingham, Quincy left for Moscow ... I wonder if it's because:
1) the first team is so awesome that no youngster could step in unless said youngster was equally awesome;
2) so much pressure to win that the youngsters can't be fielded; or
3) the youngsters simply aren't good enough.

I am no fan of the Gooners or Whiner but the guy has an eye for young talent and if they are good enough they are in the first time so i think its mostly 3. If i running thing i would do whatever it takes to open the new stadium with the best team possible i would not sell Cole but maybe one of the other left backs, and put in an offer for RVN Manutd have a little bit a surplus up front. Although i doubt Manutd would sell to Arsenal it could get other teams in the mix and get RVN out of the EPL which would be good for Arsenal.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Critch

I agree that Rosicky isn't a replacement for Bergkamp as Bergkamp hasn't started in a league game since October, so a replacement for Bergkamp is going to sit on the bench. Maybe a replacment for Bergkamp's replacement?

Well, as a full-time partner for Titi, Dennis was never replaced. [If indeed an incredible player as he *can* be.] Van Persie looked really good until he got hurt -- check out latestgoals.net for his goal against Blackburn on November 26th where he does the anti-JAR, took some kicks and scored from the right. Adebayor seemed to have formed a really good partnership with Henry once he came over -- check out Henry's goal against Aston Villa on April 01st where Adebayor brought the ball down and just dropped it off for Henry. I expect those two to battle it out for that spot with Reyes being the darkhorse to win it outright. A number of Sevilla follower have said that, in spite of occasionally playing on the left, Reyes' best position is as the support striker where he has room to roam left or right as situation dictates. He was a significant investment and I fully expect him to get any and all chances he needs to succeed and I don't think Le Boss is done with the notion of him partnering Henry. I just think he needs to let him be the support striker instead of being the mirror image of Henry. He did send Henry on great runs a number of time this past season. Lupoli seems to be higher up in the food chain -- and his scoring record in the reserves supports it -- but is FAR from being physically ready where Bendtner is apparently beginning to impress, especially at the U-21 tournament [YouTube apparently has the highlight of his goals at hxxp://youtube.com/watch?v=8A6K49WRVPE&search=bendtner but I have not seen it as I do not have the connection for it].

Originally Posted by Critch

If you take away the 4 defenders and the Gilberto/Diaby holding role, you're left with 5 vaguely attacking positions with Hleb, Fabregas, Reyes, Rosicky, Ljungberg, Henry, Walcott, Van Persie, Adebayor to fill them, plus Lupoli and maybe Bendtner are ready for first team experience too. That's more of a logjam of talent for attacking positions than even Chelsea have, so I still think somebody will be on the way out. Hleb was rumored to be unhappy earlier in the season, but I'd guess he got happier when he settled in and was starting every game, so my money is still on Reyes. He hasn't been the same player since the "I want to play for Real Madrid, people are horrible here" bit, although a chunk of that is down to injury I guess.

Diaby does not really seem to be a holding midfielder and is out until at least next January, at the minimum, thanks to that asshole at Sunderland. Hleb's best position is said to be in the middle but he is adapting to the right-side very well, I absolutely love his work rate tracking back to help the right-back and I think he has a great partnership with Eboue. I love Ljungberg's combativeness and heart but he's more brittle than . . . well, he's brittle, but I expect him to flop back and forth between the left and right wing until Wenger switches to the 4-5-1 in the Champion's League where he probably will move toward the middle. It would be nice if Wenger would use Rosicky in the middle some to spell Fabregas so he does not have to keep logging 50+ games but he's the anti-Ranieri and I don't expect him to sit terribly often so I expect Rosicky on the left-side more -- in similiar style to how Hleb was brought along this season -- and take over the role that Pires filled so well for so long in linking Cole with Henry. Given these scenarios, unless Reyes wins the support striker spot, I can see Reyes leaving as you said. The only problem is I don't think he'll bring back nearly as much as we spent on him. Bendtner and Lupoli will likely be restricted to Carling Cup and, maybe, an FA Cup appearance or two.

A HUGE position of need, in my opinion, is a defensive midfielder/ball winner. Gilberto Silva is currently the ONLY option there. Behind him are Flamini (who filled in wonderfully last season but seems to be more of a scrappy hustler than a midfield boss), Alexandre Song (who is apparently talented but incredibly raw and is nowhere near ready for the pace of the Premiership) and, perhaps, Sebastian Larsson (who seems to have a tough time getting on the pitch). Fabrice Muamba is highly rated and apparently did well in a Cup appearance but have not been heard from since. If it were up to me, this is where Lauren would be next season but I cannot see it happening with Wenger.

Originally Posted by Critch

Compared with the midfield and attack, the defence looks good but not deep. With Campbell on the way out you've got to think they're lining up somebody for central defence, the aforementioned Kompany would be great. Strengthen central defence and keep Cole and they'll be back next year.

With Campbell leaving, I see a definite need for a buy. However, buy or not, as long as Pascal Cygan does not get more than 3 starts (and preferrably none), I'm happy. Djourou seems like he's on his way to being a good player and I would rather have him on the pitch over the Mighty Cybot any day. As you say, as long as Cole stays, we will be in GREAT shape at fullbacks.

Originally Posted by Critch

I'll just be glad when they get back to their proper colors

I'm so torn. I hate the red currant kit but I feel the need to save up money to make an attempt to get a #10 Bergkamp Red Currant kit.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by law90026

The one concern I have about Arsenal is that the youngsters nearly never get an opportunity to play, Fabregas and Van Persie being an exception. Lupoli has hardly ever featured, Upson left for Birmingham, Quincy left for Moscow ... I wonder if it's because:
1) the first team is so awesome that no youngster could step in unless said youngster was equally awesome;
2) so much pressure to win that the youngsters can't be fielded; or
3) the youngsters simply aren't good enough.

Upson is probably the only youngster that Arsenal probably regret no longer having. But, it's Wenger's style to let players go to persue their career if he does not feel they can/will get to start at Arsenal soon. Upson was behind Campbell and Keown at the time, I believe. He did the same for Volz who was stuck behind Lauren with Hoyte breathing down his back. Another is Steve Sidwell who was not going to start ahead of Vieira, Edu, Gilberto and Ray Parlour and has gone on to become a very good player with Reading. To the detriment (in my opinion) of Arsenal, he even did the same for Parlour who was able to get a more lucrative contract because Arsenal released him. Bentley, I am led to believe, started believing his own ink and never had the work ethics or dedication to ever have been able to harness his talent and/or impress the boss. Which is ashame because he's darn talented and could yet develop into a very good Premiership-calibur player.

Quincy left because he apparently was beginning to frustrate coaches and teammates. He had speed to spare and plenty of on-ball skill but could not seem to progress past the tricks. His finishing was also said to be far from ready. Lupoli has not featured because he was simply not physically ready to play yet. The few times he has started, he has simply been pushed off the ball too easily. He has too much talent to not succeed but it will take time for him become physically ready. And I don't think it's that far away. There was a game toward the middle of the season (yet another loss) when he came on as a substitute and was able make some runs while being pushed.

I expect Aliadiere to be gone eventually, if not soon. He has simply been injured too often and is now stuck between Adebayor/Van Persie and Bendtner/Lupoli. I would also not be surprised to see Hoyte move on. He was said to have impressed last year on loan but will now be stuck behind Lauren, Eboue and, probably, Gilbert. He does have the added versatility of being able to play on the left as well, though. But, like with Volz, I can see Wenger let him move onto a starting place elsewhere. Possibly coming up on this (unfortunate) list is Ryan Smith who has a lot of talent but needs to start showing that he has progressed enough to start earning playing time.

So, uhhh, as condors said, it's mostly 3's with a few 1's thrown in. Jermaine Pennant is a category all on his own.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by daedalus

I hate the red currant kit but I feel the need to save up money to make an attempt to get a #10 Bergkamp Red Currant kit.

Go get one right now, it could save your life:

hxxp://xrl.us/mr23

[Desnudo]

A couple of questions I hope the Brits on the board can help answer: 1. When did they change the rule of the keeper not being able to pick-up a back pass? 2. Did David Seaman always have either a porn mustache or a ponytail? Thanks.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

A1. When did they change the rule of the keeper not being able to pick-up a back pass?

A while ago. I want to say 1998, but I'm not sure.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

2. Did David Seaman always have either a porn mustache or a ponytail? Thanks.

As far as I remember he's always had the porn-tache. The ponytail though didn't appear until fairly late in his career when he was old enough to know better.

[Cringer]

Looks like Houston wasted plenty of opportunities once again today. Atleast they got the draw on the road I guess.

[Critch]

almost a dola:

Here's a thing from the BBC website, David Seaman's career in pictures:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...es/3394471.stm

Porn-tache is present and correct in the photo of him as a 23 year old.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Critch

almost a dola:

Here's a thing from the BBC website, David Seaman's career in pictures:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...es/3394471.stm

Porn-tache is present and correct in the photo of him as a 23 year old.

I really am glad that the short short's went away in all areas of life........

[Katon]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

A while ago. I want to say 1998, but I'm not sure.

Before that, I think. I got hooked by the '94 world cup, and I'm pretty sure the rule had just changed fairly recently.

[ISiddiqui]

All I know is that its been around a long while .

[FrogMan]

I last refereed a soccer match in 1992 or 93 and I remember it being talked that it would a new rule, so Katon's estimate is about right to me...

FM

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

I last refereed a soccer match in 1992 or 93 and I remember it being talked that it would a new rule, so Katon's estimate is about right to me...

FM

It became a new rule right when I started playing travel soccer, around 9 years old or so. So 1994 or thereabouts.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

It became a new rule right when I started playing travel soccer, around 9 years old or so. So 1994 or thereabouts.

yeah, thanks for making me feel sooooo old. When I stopped being a referee is when you started playing... sigh...

FM

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

yeah, thanks for making me feel sooooo old. When I stopped being a referee is when you started playing... sigh...

FM

And I stopped being a referee when you started lamenting about being old...

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

A1. When did they change the rule of the keeper not being able to pick-up a back pass?

1992.

[Northwood_DK]

Ronaldo reportedly turned down a recent $120 million, 10-year offer to play for the New York Red Bulls in Major League Soccer.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

[Cringer]

They expected him to retire at 29?