Lakers vs Magic and the 2008-2009 NBA Playoffs/Finals Thread

[Big Fo]

Maybe I haven't seen Denver enough and am being misled by their excellent play of late, but I think they'll give LA a run for their money.

[whomario]

I think they can, but they also drew good matchups for them. Neither New Orleans nor the Mavs were that good realistically speaking. Neither had any reliable options on the 2/3 positions or any sort of post scoring, so imo that played into the Nugget´s hands with their athletic players switching everything on the Pick & Roll. I still think defense will be the Nuggets´ weak link. They outscored the Mavs mostly. They played good defense, but not that good imo, the Mavs just didn´t have the firepower.
But yeah, obviously they are a much improved team despite the not-so-much improved record. Heck, even Melo actually plays defense ...

If the Lakers play like Games 1-4 against Houston than it will be very close at least.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by whomario

I think they can, but they also drew good matchups for them. Neither New Orleans nor the Mavs were that good realistically speaking. Neither had any reliable options on the 2/3 positions or any sort of post scoring, so imo that played into the Nugget´s hands with their athletic players switching everything on the Pick & Roll. I still think defense will be the Nuggets´ weak link. They outscored the Mavs mostly. They played good defense, but not that good imo, the Mavs just didn´t have the firepower.
But yeah, obviously they are a much improved team despite the not-so-much improved record. Heck, even Melo actually plays defense ...

If the Lakers play like Games 1-4 against Houston than it will be very close at least.

I'm reading this and am not really sure what the hell any of it means. The Hornets sucked in hindsight, but everyone predicted they'd win the series. The Mavericks were one of the hottest teams in the league and the Nuggets dispatched them in five games.

As for the defense, I'm just not sure what that means either. Here are the Nuggets regular season ranks:

Defensive efficiency - 8th
FG% Against - 4th (better than Houston and everyone else outside of Cleveland, Boston or Orlando)
Blocks - 2nd
Steals - 3rd
Turnovers forced - 6th

OK, so what exactly is wrong with the defense at any point this year? Please, explain to me what is wrong with top 8 in every single defensive category.

And then "not so improved" record. Explain this one.Denver jumped from 50 wins to 54 wins and they moved from the 8th seed in the Western conference to the 2nd seed. Don't blame the Nuggets because nobody bothered to look at the statistical evidence that showed them to be pretty good throughout the year. (or your own perceptions) If they lose against the Lakers (and I think they will lose against the Lakers) it has nothing to do with defensive weakness and everything to do with the Lakers just being the better team.

[Groundhog]

Magic start off with three missed from 3, then Howard peels off 6 straight points. Maybe he was kinda right after all?

[Jas_lov]

No he's not. It seems like it would make much more sense to run the offense through Rashard Lewis. The Celtics have no answer for him. He can blow by BBD and he's too big for Pierce. Scalibrine is doing his best but he's no match for Lewis. Or they could keep giving it to Howard so he can brick those jump hook shoots.

[Groundhog]

Well I'm no longer watching because I have to work, but Howard is now 5-7 from the floor, so, I don't know.

[Big Fo]

Guards missing shots is Orlando's problem tonight. Howard has played well so far.

[Jas_lov]

No reason not to go to Lewis now. Doc is leaving BBD in there with 4 fouls so why not try to get 5 on him and put them in a tough spot. The Celtics would probably have to bring in Mikie Moore at some point and then they should pound it to Howard.

[Big Fo]

Redick 0-7 now, just bench him ffs

[Big Fo]

If I were that ref I'd have given Alston a T for grabbing his head and kissing it.

[Jas_lov]

We will have game 7. Orlando missed a ton of FTs but it doesn't matter. Ray Allen might want to consider showing up in game 7 if Boston wants to win.

[Big Fo]

Howard with a 20-20 performance after calling out his coach. His offensive rebounds were huge on a night where Orlando didn't have the shooting touch.

[DaddyTorgo]

gah...that was an ugly game by the C's

[Groundhog]

Strong start by the Lakers. Down 13-1.

[Neon_Chaos]

Nice acting from Ron Ron. Smart play.

[bulletsponge]

are the ESPN commentators and talking head supposed to be blatant LA homers?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

are the ESPN commentators and talking head supposed to be blatant LA homers?

Or maybe Kobe really didn't deserve that T.

Doh.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pretty well done piece on Chauncey Billups.
ESPN - OTL: The Disposable Superstar - E-ticket

[stevew]

Yeah, agreed with John. Read that the other night, and thought it was very well written. Hoping if the Cavs make the finals, they can avoid him. He usually gives us fits.

[MrBug708]

Losing game six is certainly an annoyance

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Or maybe Kobe really didn't deserve that T.

Doh.

i was actually refering to the whole series.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Pretty well done piece on Chauncey Billups.
ESPN - OTL: The Disposable Superstar - E-ticket

thank you so much for sharing that, a great, great piece and elevated a player I already really liked. The NBA is not all thugs and punks.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Losing game six is certainly an annoyance

If they fumble game 7, they'll need some soul searching in the offseason.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Pretty well done piece on Chauncey Billups.
ESPN - OTL: The Disposable Superstar - E-ticket

yeah - i'd always felt billups was run out of boston ridiculously quick, and now that i really see what we missed out on...wow

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

If they fumble game 7, they'll need some soul searching in the offseason.

Eh, they would certainly deserve it.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm reading this and am not really sure what the hell any of it means. The Hornets sucked in hindsight, but everyone predicted they'd win the series. The Mavericks were one of the hottest teams in the league and the Nuggets dispatched them in five games.

As for the defense, I'm just not sure what that means either. Here are the Nuggets regular season ranks:

Defensive efficiency - 8th
FG% Against - 4th (better than Houston and everyone else outside of Cleveland, Boston or Orlando)
Blocks - 2nd
Steals - 3rd
Turnovers forced - 6th

OK, so what exactly is wrong with the defense at any point this year? Please, explain to me what is wrong with top 8 in every single defensive category.

And then "not so improved" record. Explain this one.Denver jumped from 50 wins to 54 wins and they moved from the 8th seed in the Western conference to the 2nd seed. Don't blame the Nuggets because nobody bothered to look at the statistical evidence that showed them to be pretty good throughout the year. (or your own perceptions) If they lose against the Lakers (and I think they will lose against the Lakers) it has nothing to do with defensive weakness and everything to do with the Lakers just being the better team.

Wait, everyone predicted the Hornets to win ? A team that hobbled to the finish line ? A Team with Chandler not in good shape, with Peja being injured a lot ?

I give you the point about defense, my bad. It´s just from the games i saw i saw an agressive defensive team but not an efficient one, i am propably wrong. So i´m sorry for that one But i still would take an approach like the Celtics or old Spurs teams over the Nuggets agressive defense any day of the weak, that´s just how i feel about that....

And i said they are much improved. I wanted to highlight that by saying they improved more than their record show, sorry you took that wrongly. Maybe badly phrased as english isn´t my primary language, sorry about that one, too.
I really do think they are very much improved

I stand by my point that both teams were good matchups for them, though. Not because they were bad teams but good ones that are not great and had major holes. Then again as it turns out right now the Lakers might be as well. Seriously, that teams´ players outside of Bryant are doing a major disapearing act, wow ... I thought they turned the corner, but right now they are a 1-man team just like the Mavs/Hornets.
Right now i´d say the Nuggets chances to reach the Finals are at least at 50%.

Rockets are awesome And Battier´s D on Kobe is just a great sight, that duel really is fun to watch.

Anyone thinks Kobe sees a hand hanging in front of his face when he closes his eyes at night ?





He´s having a great shooting series still, going for 30 PPG on 46% shooting but he´s not drawing many double teams unless he really gets to the basket or generating that much room for his teammates because Battier plays him very good and just gives him that 20 foot jump shot all night. He´s shooting way more long jumpers than usual (not jumpers, but long jumpers), Battier gives him that instead of a 15 foot jump shot, forces him outside without giving him open shots or open 3s even. There´s a reason why coaches call that Shot from 20 to the 3 point line the worst shot in basketball. That he´s still hitting those is because he´s Kobe and has that pull perfected, but you can live very much with how he´s playing right now.
His points per shot is at 1,19 as well, which is not terrible but far from very good and good news for the Rockets.

and how bout scola ? Boy that guy can play in the post despite his lack of power.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Eh, they would certainly deserve it.

Indeed.

It's not like the Rockets have played well this series either. The Lakers have just been horrible outside of game 5.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Pretty well done piece on Chauncey Billups.
ESPN - OTL: The Disposable Superstar - E-ticket

I read this earlier in the week. I think it is an awesome story. It makes me root for Denver.

One thing I took from it that shocked me and I may just be ignorant, but it was the part about Denver not having a set play for inbounding the ball under their own basket. Seriously? Karl is getting paid millions and his team doesn't have plays for a situation like that? Like I said, it could be my ignorance, but that seems crazy to me.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Losing game six is certainly an annoyance

I can't wait to see what losing game 7 will be. Kobe lacks the leadership skills to get his team a title and I wouldn't be surprised to see them choke against the Rockets.

[TroyF]

whomario,

In the Nuggets/Hornets series, the split was pretty even on a national level. Even the guys who thought the Nuggets would win said it would be in 6 or 7 games.

More people hopped on the bandwagon after the thrashing Denver gave the Hornets, but it was still expected to be a 6 or 7 game series.

As for how we play defense, I don't think it really matters. We hold teams to bad shooting. When they control the defensive glass, they win the basketball game. When they don't, they lose.

When they control the defensive glass and shoot the three well, they become an NBA elite type of team. The last month they've controlled the defensive glass and hit the three ball. (and they are 22-4 not counting a meaningless game against Portland to end the season) The more I see of the Lakers, the more confidence I have that Denver can beat them. They play without emotion in the Pepsi Center, Denver will destroy them there.

Still, I'd love to face the Rockets over the Lakers. Home court advantage in the Nuggets first conference finals in 24 years? That'd be a dream.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by whomario

Wait, everyone predicted the Hornets to win ? A team that hobbled to the finish line ? A Team with Chandler not in good shape, with Peja being injured a lot ?

As I've noted before -- on the national front, people were unaware how badly (and probably permanently) Tyson Chandler was injured. This is why you had the idiots on PTI and ESPN bloviating about how the trade to OKC meant New Orleans can't support the NBA, blah blah blah. They didn't understand the extent of Chandler's injury. Pretty much nobody did outside of N.O.

I remember listening to Bill Simmons (and his podcast guest) pick the Hornets over the Nuggets. Both of them were just assuming Chandler would be back at something close to full strength. I was just mystified at how out-of-the-loop they were. The Hornets never stood a chance in that series (which doesn't excuse the 58-point debacle, but that's another topic).

Not taking anything away from the Nuggets, but they really got a hell of a draw in these playoffs, first and second round.

[whomario]

@ TroyF : I´m outside the US and even pretty selective with what webpages i follow due to past experiences with them, so i simply didn´t know that. From what i could tell the Nuggets were picked mostly (and 5 or 6 isn´t that big a deal imo), so i am suprised but really can´t disagree if you say that the consensus was differently.
Thus i stand corrected

Originally Posted by TroyF

Still, I'd love to face the Rockets over the Lakers. Home court advantage in the Nuggets first conference finals in 24 years? That'd be a dream.

The Nuggets would destroy the Rockets. As much as i love this group of players and what they are doing right now, but the main reason they are in game 7 and weren´t beaten in 5 games (or swept) is that the Lakers are lethargic and passionless for large stretches. If there´s one thing the Nuggets aren´t it is that
Against a team that matches their intensity level the Rockets are toast. I mean, their best players are a PG that can´t pass and is streaky, a athletically-challenged PF and a likeable retard that somehow influences the game positively despite his terrible offensive performances.

an interesting article on Phil Jackson´s coaching or lack there of : NBA - Coach's Zen approach not helping Lakers - FOX Sports on MSN

He really hasn´t done a whole lot of coaching this playoffs, has he ?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

yeah - i'd always felt billups was run out of boston ridiculously quick, and now that i really see what we missed out on...wow

Yeah, he is a great player and human from all indications. I hope young student atheletes folllow his lead more than guys like Iverson and TO.

[Galaril]

I am seeing Nuggets Cavs Finals. I think if the Lkaers and Celts survive there series (physically for the Celts/mentally for Lakers) it will take alot to take out these peaking well rested, confident excellent defensive teams whoa re healthy.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Pretty well done piece on Chauncey Billups.
ESPN - OTL: The Disposable Superstar - E-ticket

That was a good read. Checked it out the other day when it was on the front page

SI

[Big Fo]

No NBA or NHL playoffs today :/

[RainMaker]

Lines for tomorrow night.

Lakers -12.5
Celtics -2.5

[whomario]

Why is the NBA still giving Joe Crawford all the huge games to referee ? Seriously, that´s like asking Ben Wallace to still be the DPOY

The guy is such a self-centred ass it´s not even funny ... He´s reffing the Lakers-Rockets tonight.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by whomario

Why is the NBA still giving Joe Crawford all the huge games to referee ? Seriously, that´s like asking Ben Wallace to still be the DPOY

The guy is such a self-centred ass it´s not even funny ... He´s reffing the Lakers-Rockets tonight.

Saw this about Crawford on another forum. Just interesting stuff:

Last two seasons of playoffs:
Lakers are 21-11 in 32 games:
14-10 without Crawford as ref.
7-1 with Crawford(only loss was elimination game vs Celtics 131-92 game which is very hard to fix).
Also it was Joey Crawford who tossed Artest in Game 2 with the Rockets down 10 with 8 minutes to go. I guess he wanted to make sure this score stuck to tie the series.

Want more:
Rockets this post season:
7-3 record in games without Crawford.
0-2 record in games with Crawford.

Want more:
This year Houston takes game 1 in LA, Crawford works Game 2.
Last year in the Utah series, he is sent to Utah for Game 6 with Lakers up 3-2 and sure enough no game 7 needed.
Next series vs. SA, Lakers lead 2-1 with Game 4 in SA and enter Joey Crawford. LA goes up 3-1 with 93-91 win(NBA apologizes for Crawford no call on Derek Fischer foul on Brent Barry to end game).
Next series is Boston and Lakers down 0-2 enter Crawford to right the ship and Lakers win game 3.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, someone responded to what I posted above with this:

That's nothing. Check out these stats regarding the Mavs record in games with Crawford as the ref and without him as the ref:

- from 2001-2005 when Crawford was the ref, the Mavs were 0-8. When he wasn't the ref they were 41-37
- from 2001 until now, the Mavs are 1-15 in games Crawford is the ref. When he wasn't, they were 52-35

These stats come from the blog below. They also had someone run the likelihood of that kind of discrepency between games officiated by one official. The chances of that kind discrepency happening and it being legitimate is 0.001119 percent. That means for every 100,000 times the Mavs played 87 games, the chances of them going 1-15 with one ref and 52-35 with anyone else is 1 in 100,000.

[Jas_lov]

The Lakers will not need Joey Crawford and his other 2 company men to win this game by 20 points. I expect another slaughter like game 5.

[whomario]

terrible start by the rockets. 2 1/2 minutes without a single controlled pass let alone play towards the goal

WTF Artest ? i hate him ...

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Saw this about Crawford on another forum. Just interesting stuff:

Last two seasons of playoffs:
Lakers are 21-11 in 32 games:
14-10 without Crawford as ref.
7-1 with Crawford(only loss was elimination game vs Celtics 131-92 game which is very hard to fix).
Also it was Joey Crawford who tossed Artest in Game 2 with the Rockets down 10 with 8 minutes to go. I guess he wanted to make sure this score stuck to tie the series.

Want more:
Rockets this post season:
7-3 record in games without Crawford.
0-2 record in games with Crawford.

Want more:
This year Houston takes game 1 in LA, Crawford works Game 2.
Last year in the Utah series, he is sent to Utah for Game 6 with Lakers up 3-2 and sure enough no game 7 needed.
Next series vs. SA, Lakers lead 2-1 with Game 4 in SA and enter Joey Crawford. LA goes up 3-1 with 93-91 win(NBA apologizes for Crawford no call on Derek Fischer foul on Brent Barry to end game).
Next series is Boston and Lakers down 0-2 enter Crawford to right the ship and Lakers win game 3.

Not so much for this game, but for the integrity of the league as a whole, how does he have a job?!? Wasn't he implicated by the whole Donaghy thing?

SI

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Dola, someone responded to what I posted above with this:

I have no idea on the numbers but the same thing has been posted about DANNY Crawford

Danny Crawford Hates the*Mavs? - Mavs Moneyball

[whomario]

Artest is such a moron, it´s unbelievable at times ...

[Jas_lov]

Well look at this. The Lakers are winning by 20. It must be because of Joey Crawford. Someone posts all of those records with and without Crawford but you have no idea without going back and looking at each game whether the Lakers were at home, who they were playing, etc. I'm sure the NBA is still fixing games after that whole Donaghy fiasco.

[Danny]

Your PG has 0 assists in the first half

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Well look at this. The Lakers are winning by 20. It must be because of Joey Crawford. Someone posts all of those records with and without Crawford but you have no idea without going back and looking at each game whether the Lakers were at home, who they were playing, etc. I'm sure the NBA is still fixing games after that whole Donaghy fiasco.

I always thought views about the NBA fixing games or influencing games was incredibly silly. Sure, stars tend to get more calls, but that's just the way it is. I think that in the NBA, year after year, more than any other sport, the best team ends up winning the championship.

Last 13 NBA titles.

Celtics
Spurs
Heat
Spurs
Pistons
Lakers
Lakers
Lakers
Spurs
Bulls
Bulls
Bulls

I'd find it very hard to argue that each of these teams wasn't the best team that season. That includes three spurs teams who frankly were bad for ratings.

[Tasan]

So, did the Rockette's send their D league team out there again today? This town is going to be full of tears tomorrow....boy good thing I'm a Mavs fan.


Oh wait.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I can't wait to see what losing game 7 will be. Kobe lacks the leadership skills to get his team a title and I wouldn't be surprised to see them choke against the Rockets.

Or maybe not. I still don't think this Laker team has any chance at winning a title this year with their lack of leadership and consistency.