Werewolf LVII: Cathedral (GAME OVER!)

[Alan T]

I personally believe that Lathum threw out that he was attacked in a completely unverifiable way as a method to try to just buy trust for one more day. If they get 1 or 2 more kills of villagers in, they likely win.. he just wants to buy another day..

Thats what I am leaning to right now at least.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I never said I was attacked last night, I submitted my night action to guard myself, but I was never told if I was attacked.



It seems odd that he'd be able to fight off an attack without my bg powers, but we don't know what his powers as the Knight are. The Page wants to be the Knight, so maybe it's possible that my bg powers are lesser than his or that he can guard himself without the need for a bg. I have no idea at this point. I'll vote with the rest of the village today as long as there is a compelling reason to vote for that person.

Yeah, I reread thhose posts. In my still sleepiness I must read it into all of the "what do I get told and not told by bk." Sorry.

But still. I'm interested in haering more from you. As per pervious post.

[Abe Sargent]

I was all ready to jump on Lathum too, shoot.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Okay, we can reasonably infer that last night was an attack on a person not the cathedral. Why?

Based on the ruiles and the previous night, two areas were damaged, yet one angel blocks damage/.

Thus Lathum or oliegirl was the target. If it wasnt you oliegirl, then I'm not sure why you revealed

Why can't it be a conversion? If a conversion happened either you or Path would have been obvious targets I would think. So i can understand why you wouldn't want people to consider a conversion.

[Alan T]

Well, I'm out. back later.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Okay, we can reasonably infer that last night was an attack on a person not the cathedral. Why?

Based on the ruiles and the previous night, two areas were damaged, yet one angel blocks damage/.

Thus Lathum or oliegirl was the target. If it wasnt you oliegirl, then I'm not sure why you revealed

I revealed because of a couple reasons. First of all, we have NO definitive information...there are so many roles and possibilities with good and evil, that we have to start somewhere. No one else was coming out with clear cut "I'm not evil" information, so I did.

Secondly, AlanT's list...I want to be alive when the villagers win the game, so I revealed to protect myself.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Okay, we can reasonably infer that last night was an attack on a person not the cathedral. Why?

Based on the ruiles and the previous night, two areas were damaged, yet one angel blocks damage/.

Thus Lathum or oliegirl was the target. If it wasnt you oliegirl, then I'm not sure why you revealed

I'm thinking that means there was no attack on the Cathedral. The rules say they can select two wolves to attack the cathedral -- not sure why they would choose to use just one.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Okay, we can reasonably infer that last night was an attack on a person not the cathedral. Why?

Based on the ruiles and the previous night, two areas were damaged, yet one angel blocks damage/.

Thus Lathum or oliegirl was the target. If it wasnt you oliegirl, then I'm not sure why you revealed

From what I have inferred, it was not the Page, Butcher. I believe that she deems it the right moment to reveal herself and begin building a circle of trust.

As for the Knight's reveal, I will wait for him to explain... other than the simple words of "I have been attacked! I know not who attacked me, nor why I am not dead!"

I find it peculiar, considering he should at least have knowledge of his abilities... this is assuming that he is in fact telling the truth.

I feel that his tongue is holding back on information that might be crucial, or that he may be lying through his teeth for some odd reason.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I personally believe that Lathum threw out that he was attacked in a completely unverifiable way as a method to try to just buy trust for one more day. If they get 1 or 2 more kills of villagers in, they likely win.. he just wants to buy another day..

Thats what I am leaning to right now at least.

Let's take a look at the numbers

12 people left. Let's assume a minimum number of angels and demons. Say three. I know some have speculated four earlier, but lets suppose three.

Let's pull out the bishoip.

Ratio of demons to cityfolk 3-5. If we accidentally lynch a peasant today, and they night kill another tonight, then they get their game. If Bishop counts, then we'd have to lynch another city person tomorrow in order for them to get their game,

However, if we kill an angel or demon today, we keep the ratio up for a while.

Here's teh kicker - if we accidentally kill an angel today, it will still help us in the long run by giving us another day to finisht eh catehdral after demon attacks at night. WHat we don;t want to do is whack a villager.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Why can't it be a conversion? If a conversion happened either you or Path would have been obvious targets I would think. So i can understand why you wouldn't want people to consider a conversion.

I hadn;t even thought of a conversion to be honest. That's possible. However, with a cultist and at least three demons, having a conversion ability to get a fourth in a 16 person game seems a bit powerful to me. Let's suppose they did. What are the numebrs for that?

4-6 even with teh Biship counting as a peasant. If he doesn;t, its 4-5 and pretty much game over.

BEsides, if it were a conversion, how do you explain lathum;s claim? HE chose poorly his "reveal". I guess I could buy that. And if the demons had a conversain ability, it does make selling out the Cultist seem like a better play, assuing you knew where the cultist was.

[Abe Sargent]

Alright, I gotta get to work. THis writing stuff is tough when you want to do something else. I'm pulling out the ethernet card and will restore it in a few days.

[Abe Sargent]

I was working on the first paragraph of a character bio and I think I figured out what happened last night. I will respect oliegirl and Lathums privacy on this.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I was working on the first paragraph of a character bio and I think I figured out what happened last night. I will respect oliegirl and Lathums privacy on this.

I'm perplexed...I've given all the information I have.

[path12]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

We do know that Leviathan is not the wolf who attacked Lathum last night as he was able to fight him off, and according to BK, Leviathan's attack is unstoppable.

That's if Lathum was actually attacked.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Why can't it be a conversion? If a conversion happened either you or Path would have been obvious targets I would think. So i can understand why you wouldn't want people to consider a conversion.

I was going to mention conversion also. We only have Lathum's word about the attack, and him fighting it off makes sense on one had as the Knight, but he already said his power was being able to compel Olie on her vote......

[path12]

*one hand, not one had.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I would agree with the Page, Blacksmith. The Lord works in mysterious ways... and he speaks in riddles as well. For how can we comprehend the true voice of our one true Lord, and not have our ears fail, and our souls shaken to their very core?

is anyone else picturing barkeep with the head of alanis morissette right now?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by saldana

is anyone else picturing barkeep with the head of alanis morissette right now?

Wow. I never thought that would be how someone would picture me.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by path12

I was going to mention conversion also. We only have Lathum's word about the attack, and him fighting it off makes sense on one had as the Knight, but he already said his power was being able to compel Olie on her vote......

Yeah, but who's to say he doesn't have more than one power? Wasn't it RendeR that had 2 or 3 different powers/abilities?

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by saldana

is anyone else picturing barkeep with the head of alanis morissette right now?

Where is Ant with his super PhotoShop skills when we need him????

[saldana]

so here is what we have left...i have put my thoughts next to each person..

Bishop: Neon Chaos
Lord Leige: Alan T
Knight: Lathum - trusted...misled, particulary about me, but trusted
Page: oliegirl - trusted...made her reveal, no reason to believe she is lying, no counter claim
Friar: saldana - obvious
Peon: path12 - highly trusted, vouched for Anxiety when chance to be scanned still existed
Goldsmith: Mr. Wednesday
Blacksmith: Pass
Shepard: st.cronin
Mason: Schmidty
Butcher: Anxiety - highly trusted - vouched for Path
Carpenter: PurdueBrad - trusted

[saldana]

keeping my list in mind, i would be inclined to go with cronin, pass, or schmidty today.

alan stays off my list because he is hinting at a demonstration of his goodness today

neon stays off because i am totally confused about him, but find his posts amusing [/sarcasm]

[oliegirl]

Can you list out your reasons for wanting to go with Cronin, Pass and Schmidty? Just so we are all clear and there is no confusion...there has been a lot of conversations about a lot of people, don't want to end up screwing this up b/c of misinformation. Also, then the 3 of them will have a chance to defend themselves based on current accusations...

[path12]

Originally Posted by saldana

keeping my list in mind, i would be inclined to go with cronin, pass, or schmidty today.

alan stays off my list because he is hinting at a demonstration of his goodness today

neon stays off because i am totally confused about him, but find his posts amusing [/sarcasm]

Why not Mr W? I have no read on him at all.

[path12]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Yeah, but who's to say he doesn't have more than one power? Wasn't it RendeR that had 2 or 3 different powers/abilities?

Sure, that's possible. I thought I remember him saying he just had one at some point, but that's not a statement I'd necessarily take at face value from anyone, good or bad.

RendeR did have a few powers. But RendeR was also bad.

[path12]

Originally Posted by saldana

so here is what we have left...i have put my thoughts next to each person..

Bishop: Neon Chaos
Lord Leige: Alan T
Knight: Lathum - trusted...misled, particulary about me, but trusted
Page: oliegirl - trusted...made her reveal, no reason to believe she is lying, no counter claim
Friar: saldana - obvious
Peon: path12 - highly trusted, vouched for Anxiety when chance to be scanned still existed
Goldsmith: Mr. Wednesday
Blacksmith: Pass
Shepard: st.cronin
Mason: Schmidty
Butcher: Anxiety - highly trusted - vouched for Path
Carpenter: PurdueBrad - trusted

I'm also waiting for Alan's move before putting him on a trust list, but am willing to take him off the agenda for today pending that. I'm not as sure about Purdue as you seem to be. He could help with the construction one night and sabotage it the next for all we know.

[st.cronin]

Alan is obviously the duke, right?

[path12]

Sounds like it.

[Neon_Chaos]

Ser Knight, would you not change your votes on the Friar? Certainly, there are more ample candidates for inquisition today, don't you think?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Ser Knight, would you not change your votes on the Friar? Certainly, there are more ample candidates for inquisition today, don't you think?

Is there any point voting right now? We're almost finished with the Cathedral, and Alan has pretty much told us the vote won't matter. This is the plan Lathum wanted to put into effect yesterday, isn't it? Why don't we just do the plan again today?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Ser Knight, would you not change your votes on the Friar? Certainly, there are more ample candidates for inquisition today, don't you think?

i dunno, who is the friar?

[Lathum]

OK, about last night.

Does anyone really think my only ability is to sit on my ass and boss oliegirl around?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Lathum

OK, about last night.

Does anyone really think my only ability is to sit on my ass and boss oliegirl around?

Aye?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by path12

Sure, that's possible. I thought I remember him saying he just had one at some point, but that's not a statement I'd necessarily take at face value from anyone, good or bad.

RendeR did have a few powers. But RendeR was also bad.

LIES!

[Lathum]

OK, Alan is also pinging my radar pretty hard,

He votes CR yesterday 8 hours before the deadline when we really didn't have a chance to discuss the proposed plan.

My question is this, if he can duke someone why waste his 2 votes?

Why not work on the cathedral with his 2 actions then duke to ChiefRum?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Aye?

huh?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

OK, Alan is also pinging my radar pretty hard,

He votes CR yesterday 8 hours before the deadline when we really didn't have a chance to discuss the proposed plan.

My question is this, if he can duke someone why waste his 2 votes?

Why not work on the cathedral with his 2 actions then duke to ChiefRum?

That's where my thinking was headed in my last post. I'm inclined to excuse it as a poor villager play, though. Then again, everyone seems to be simply taking his word -- I think this is an angle that is worth exploring more.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Is there any point voting right now? We're almost finished with the Cathedral, and Alan has pretty much told us the vote won't matter. This is the plan Lathum wanted to put into effect yesterday, isn't it? Why don't we just do the plan again today?

I may be agreeable to this. Unfortunately, sir, I am no angel, and I have been tasked by the good Lord to win victory true for mankind... which means the hunt for the Demons must continue. Mankind does not win true victory unless we vanquish the demons AND build the cathedral. Do you not understand? Unless you are a demon, devising a plot... or an angel, whose only concern is to finish the cathedral.

The Knight's votes to throw the Friar into the fire concern me. I believe that he is misguided in this.

[Lathum]

Alan also mentions a possible conversion last night.


I think this is VERY unlikely considering we killed the cultist

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

OK, about last night.

Does anyone really think my only ability is to sit on my ass and boss oliegirl around?

Well, you said you weren't the bodyguard, and Olie then revealed as it, yet she didn't guard you, you say you were attacked but are still here. I have a hard time believing there are two bodyguards.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by saldana

is anyone else picturing barkeep with the ass of alanis morissette right now?

Sexy. My humps!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, you said you weren't the bodyguard, and Olie then revealed as it, yet she didn't guard you, you say you were attacked but are still here. I have a hard time believing there are two bodyguards.

Couldn't there be someone with a power that he can defend himself if attacked?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Couldn't there be someone with a power that he can defend himself if attacked?

hmmmmm, what role would be most likely to have that ability

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

That's where my thinking was headed in my last post. I'm inclined to excuse it as a poor villager play, though. Then again, everyone seems to be simply taking his word -- I think this is an angle that is worth exploring more.

Who everyone? Didn;t AlanT get 4 votes last night and was in second place. That ain;t everybody baby.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Who everyone? Didn;t AlanT get 4 votes last night and was in second place. That ain;t everybody baby.

I'm talking about today -- I haven't seen anyone call him out, or say they don't believe him, until the post I was replying to.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm talking about today -- I haven't seen anyone call him out, or say they don't believe him, until the post I was replying to.

I believe, Blacksmith, that upon the small hint from the Lord Liege, people have suddenly balked at the thought of going against him. After all, when we assume him to have such authority that he can put to death anyone he pleases, it is prudent not to err on his side.

I still believe, and having this mentioned yesterday, that we were being manipulated into a vote between himself and the Monk.

I expect the votes today to come swiftly as the hour of judgement approaches. I am yet torn as to what to do today.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I believe, Blacksmith, that upon the small hint from the Lord Liege, people have suddenly balked at the thought of going against him. After all, when we assume him to have such authority that he can put to death anyone he pleases, it is prudent not to err on his side.

I still believe, and having this mentioned yesterday, that we were being manipulated into a vote between himself and the Monk.

I expect the votes today to come swiftly as the hour of judgement approaches. I am yet torn as to what to do today.

Who do you think was doing the manipulating? And why?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Who do you think was doing the manipulating? And why?

I have no solid grasp of who, as of yet. But why? Given that the silence of the novice lent him to have been targeted by the Lord Liege, it just did not feel quite right.

[path12]

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that saldana and Lathum are Gabriel and Lucifer in some order. I would think that those two roles would be actively campaigning to get rid of the other, and they seem to be the two that have gone at each other from early on.

It might also explain an attack on Lathum, as Lucifer and Gabriel are specifically stated to have powers known only to themselves. No other roles but the cultist specifically say they have hidden powers.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that saldana and Lathum are Gabriel and Lucifer in some order. I would think that those two roles would be actively campaigning to get rid of the other, and they seem to be the two that have gone at each other from early on.

It might also explain an attack on Lathum, as Lucifer and Gabriel are specifically stated to have powers known only to themselves. No other roles but the cultist specifically say they have hidden powers.

cool stuff like that never happens to us