|
View Poll Results: How is Obama doing? (poll started 6/6) | |||
Great - above my expectations | 18 | 6.87% | |
Good - met most of my expectations | 66 | 25.19% | |
Average - so so, disappointed a little | 64 | 24.43% | |
Bad - sold us out | 101 | 38.55% | |
Trout - don't know yet | 13 | 4.96% | |
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
02-17-2010, 04:14 PM | #8651 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
|
FWIW, Im for the repealing of DADT but raising the fact that no one asked a question of their superior' superior on the touchy subject isnt shocking or significant of the audience's feelings IMO. There have been many times where the CEO of the co. asks for questions and receives none or those that are the 'safest' for fear that they could become the bullseye when all you really want to do is your job, off the radar.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
02-17-2010, 09:22 PM | #8652 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
|
Quote:
I don't think there's any way it will pass, but I'd take that bet for any amount of money you wanted. If a cap and trade were to be passed it wouldn't kick in for a few years and it's very unlikely that the economy won't be even .5% better in a year.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
|
02-19-2010, 01:26 PM | #8653 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
Over lunch, they showed the 'town meeting' that Obama was holding with Harry Reid. Just seemed really awkward. Obama finished up his speech and then literally rolled up his sleeves to answer the questions, providing a PR scripted moment that would have made Tiger Woods proud.
|
02-19-2010, 01:36 PM | #8654 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
Yeah, I mean it is like Obama has never rolled his sleeves up before. Gosh, what was he thinking?
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint Last edited by cartman : 02-19-2010 at 01:38 PM. |
02-19-2010, 01:40 PM | #8655 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
Quote:
Agreed. He's obviously been trained early on to roll up the sleeves when his appearance moves beyond the teleprompter to give that average man look. He does it a LOT as you have correctly pointed out. |
|
02-19-2010, 01:53 PM | #8656 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
|
Quote:
Maybe. Or maybe he just hates feeling constricted inside the dress-shirt? I know when I've got one on I'm always waiting for the first instance to roll up the sleeves or get it off.
__________________
Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature. |
|
02-19-2010, 01:55 PM | #8657 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
|
Quote:
wow, youre on spincycle even regarding clothes. amazing. BTW, notice the fed has already begun to unwind? You probably didnt notice that in your vilification tour.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
|
02-19-2010, 01:58 PM | #8658 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
So please explain, MBBF, if he rolls up his sleeves "a lot" as you have admitted, how is that considered a "PR scripted moment that would have made Tiger Woods proud"? That is akin to saying that playing "Enter Sandman" for Mariano Rivera in a World Series game is a "PR scripted moment", even though it is played anytime he enters the game during the regular season.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint Last edited by cartman : 02-19-2010 at 02:01 PM. |
02-19-2010, 02:04 PM | #8659 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
|
because it fits his narrative (year-long, month-long and daily) and never to be apologized for or admitted to when he is clearly wrong.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
02-19-2010, 02:07 PM | #8660 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
|
interesting piece bringing to light some points about the stimulus bill money flowing overseas
Quote:
__________________
Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature. Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 02-19-2010 at 02:09 PM. |
|
02-19-2010, 02:09 PM | #8661 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
Quote:
He does it whenever he moves into a situation where he's engaging the audience in a town hall meeting. It's a move that's taught to upper management in most organizations to 'dress down' to their audience. It's certainly not a new technique by management figureheads. They still do it today because it's subtle, but very effective. I'm surprised there's any defensiveness on this topic. It's a precisely calculated move whether you like it or not. |
|
02-19-2010, 02:10 PM | #8662 | |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
Quote:
So then you admit it isn't anything special or unique, correct? Or is anytime someone does it, it can be considered a "PR scripted moment that would have made Tiger Woods proud"?
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint Last edited by cartman : 02-19-2010 at 02:11 PM. |
|
02-19-2010, 02:11 PM | #8663 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
|
This just comes back to the fact that the Dems have a super-majority and should be doing what they think is right, instead of letting the Repubs water everything down and then blaming them for all the ills.
__________________
-- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities |
02-19-2010, 02:13 PM | #8664 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
|
02-19-2010, 02:17 PM | #8665 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
|
Quote:
It's an audience manipulation technique, same as those used by most any staged PR. In that respect it's fair enough to call it the same kind of thing.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
|
02-19-2010, 02:17 PM | #8666 | |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
Quote:
Can you please at least keep your excuses straight?
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
|
02-19-2010, 02:19 PM | #8667 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
You don't get to be president after two years in the senate unless you have that shit DOWN.
|
02-19-2010, 02:19 PM | #8668 | |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
Quote:
If it is a standard technique, then what makes today's action so special, to liken it to today's Tiger Woods press conference? That is my main question.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
|
02-19-2010, 02:19 PM | #8669 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
|
Quote:
I'd quibble with you over the use of "most". Maybe it's taught to the majority of people who eventually reach upper management in, say, Fortune 500 companies. But I have to imagine that the sheer number of organizations and the bulk of them being small to mediums pretty much eliminates "most" being accurate for any management training at all.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
|
02-19-2010, 02:21 PM | #8670 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
I'll speak slower for your benefit. PR stands for public relations. Executives uses both verbal and non-verbal techniques to portray themselves or their ideas in a better light. The two are very much related and I appreciate your interest in learning more about the techniques. |
02-19-2010, 02:23 PM | #8671 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
Quote:
Fair point. I've worked strictly in Fortune 500 companies or in the federal government for my entire career, so that's where I draw my experience for the most part. |
|
02-19-2010, 02:23 PM | #8672 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
|
Quote:
Both are carefully calculated moves meant to psychological influence the audience perception of the speaker and/or the speaker's message. The sleeves are more like a technique used by a larger presentation like Woods' but it could be reasonably argued that the existence of the Woods' press conference itself is simply a technique. The comparison holds up from that standpoint. I'd part company on whether there was anything remarkable about Obama doing it today simply because pretty much every public appearance is the same thing, with or without the sleeves. And that would hold true for the majority of politicians.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
|
02-19-2010, 02:26 PM | #8673 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
I agree they are related, and also realize they are not the same thing. I have done quite a bit of public speaking, and am well aware of the verbal/non-verbal aspects. Especially when speaking to those for whom English is not their native language.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
02-19-2010, 02:28 PM | #8674 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bahston Mass
|
Slow news day?
__________________
There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think |
02-19-2010, 02:29 PM | #8675 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
Either that, or we need to look at the town hall transcript closer to see if there was a home run that MBBF was trying to obscure with ridiculous shirt sleeve claims.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
02-19-2010, 02:33 PM | #8676 |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
|
02-19-2010, 02:33 PM | #8677 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
|
02-19-2010, 02:34 PM | #8678 | |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
Quote:
Only if he rolls up his shirt sleeves, evidently.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint Last edited by cartman : 02-19-2010 at 02:34 PM. |
|
02-19-2010, 02:43 PM | #8679 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
|
02-19-2010, 02:56 PM | #8680 | |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
Quote:
You might have a point if there was anyone gushing over potential home runs. So far, there hasn't been any discussion of the actual content of the town hall.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
|
02-19-2010, 03:02 PM | #8681 |
Grey Dog Software
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL
|
Molson, you need to understand that it's not about what Obama does - it's about what intends to do or says he will do. After all, we have to temper our expectations on actual output given he only has clear majorities in the Senate and the House.
|
02-19-2010, 03:19 PM | #8682 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
|
Quote:
But isn't it good that just b/c a majority of the House and Senate (leaving the de facto 60-person majority discussion off to the side) belong to the President's political party that they are not "his" majorities? Can't we agree that had the GOP members of Congress stuck to conservative principles and not let through the worst of Bush's vote-pandering policies (unfunded wars, unfunded tax cuts, unfunded Medicare expansion), we would be in a much better fiscal place than we are now? Once we accept as axiomatic that any member of Congress should simply bow to the President when he belongs to the same party, haven't we pretty much just accepted that checks and balances are for suckers and losers? Why isn't a good thing when the branches push against each other? You seem to be implying that we would have been better served to simply ask Obama to provide a health care plan to Congress which each D would have simply voted into law. Knowing your politics, I know that this is not what you would have wanted. So what's the deal? |
|
02-19-2010, 03:23 PM | #8683 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
Presidential candidates (and their supporters) love to promise that congress will do something, but then claim impossibility when it doesn't happen. On the campaign trail, presidential candidates (both parties) always talk about legislation - they talk as if congress will simply be a puppet to their whims. So I'm not sure how we're supposed to evaluate that. |
|
02-19-2010, 03:37 PM | #8684 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
|
Quote:
And as much as some will portray that Congress doesn't always fall into lockstep with the president, that's exactly what was expected based on the campaign rhetoric. |
|
02-19-2010, 03:50 PM | #8685 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
|
well to quote evan bayh, when the co-sponsors of a bill then refuse to support it, Id say its a bit of obstructionism that no one anticipated. But I dont mean to distract you from your brainwashing.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
02-19-2010, 03:59 PM | #8686 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alabama
|
I think we need to redo the poll at the top of the this thread to see how people's reactions have changed.
|
02-19-2010, 04:04 PM | #8687 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
Actually, a lot of us anticipated that real life, politics, and his lack of experience would get in the way of Obama's grand plans. That's exactly the problem we had with him. The brainwashing, to use your term (that is obviously still effective). Last edited by molson : 02-19-2010 at 04:05 PM. |
|
02-19-2010, 04:11 PM | #8688 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
|
I guess we should've voted for someone that wasn't even going to try to do many of the things we wanted, and in many ways was going to do exactly the opposite because after one year Obama has failed to deliver on everything he promised. That makes alot of sense.
Even if I looked into a crystal ball and saw what Obama's first year would be like, then I still would've voted for him without a doubt, because I simply did not like what McCain said he was going to do, regardless of whether or not I thought he could accomplish all of it.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner Last edited by larrymcg421 : 02-19-2010 at 04:13 PM. |
02-19-2010, 04:14 PM | #8689 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
If he delivers all he promised in 4 years I'll donate to his campaign and vote for him. But that's ain't happening. If you're content to vote for a guy who tries hard, that's your business. Under your logic, we should all vote for the guy who promises the most. Which I suppose is exactly what happened. Edit: I don't think anyone other than the most hard-core Republicans could possibly be against Obama's promised "outcomes". They're all positive and beneficial. But wanting positive and beneficial things isn't enough. (Almost) everyone wants affordable health care for all Americans, a decrease in the national debt, independence from foreign oil, environmental sustainability, less corruption and influence from lobbyists and special interest groups, and yes, even "change in the way Washington does business", etc. It doesn't take a visionary to come out and say that these things are desirable. And yet Obama's the golden boy because, basically, he says he wants these things. Last edited by molson : 02-19-2010 at 04:29 PM. |
|
02-19-2010, 04:26 PM | #8690 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
|
Quote:
This isn't hard. I liked what Obama said he was going to do. I never expected him to accomplish 100% of it, and I certainly didn't expect that within one year. But yes, someone who is trying to do things that I like is preferable to someone who is trying to do things that I don't like. I did not like what McCain said he was going to do and that won't change no matter how much Obama struggles with getting all of his plans passed.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
|
02-19-2010, 04:26 PM | #8691 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
|
Quote:
oh. Im sorry. You support voting against your own bill?
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
|
02-19-2010, 04:34 PM | #8692 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
If he doesn't want it to go through, sure. Why are Democrats so shocked and surprised by politics? It's just funny. I mean, obviously Obama wasn't going to ride in on a white horse and have everyone follow him. This is what many of his opponents were arguing during that ridiculous campaign! And now that reality has set in, the supporters are saying the same thing, and pretending they knew this all along. Then what was all that bullshit during the campaign?? Many were wary of Obama because they feared politics and real life and his lack of experience would get in the way of his visions. That was the very argument against him!!! Now his supporters are using it as an excuse. Last edited by molson : 02-19-2010 at 04:37 PM. |
02-19-2010, 04:40 PM | #8693 | |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
Quote:
Has there ever been a candidate that was able to fulfill all of their campaign promises? Obama is horrible because he can't hit 100% of what he campaigned on one year in? What is the acceptable threshold of fulfillment and over what time period? The disconnect I see here is that your line of thinking is "I can't believe that people are buying all of this stuff that Obama is saying. If they actually think he is going to be able to do all that, then they are idiots." You are making the assumption that anyone supporting Obama thought that way, when it simply isn't the case.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint Last edited by cartman : 02-19-2010 at 04:45 PM. |
|
02-19-2010, 04:46 PM | #8694 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
Obviously I'm doing some projections, and have conceded that I'll vote for him if he comes anywhere close to the stuff he was promising say, after the South Carolina primary: Obama speech: 'Yes, we can change' - CNN.com I mean, what the hell is even talking about? He's going to end partisianship once and for all? When does that start? This rhetoric is insane and people ate it up and that's why he's president. It made me want to puke during the campaign. That's what I resent. The duping of the American people. These speaches are solely why he's anything more than a state senator. He has four years to show he's more than speeches, a pretty amazing opportunity, but he's not off to a great start. Is he so vastly superior to Hillary Clinton in terms of shaking up Washington or whatever the hell he was rambling about in South Carolina? I'm just thinking there's not really going to be all that much change after four years. Certainly not enough to live up to those speeches. Last edited by molson : 02-19-2010 at 04:51 PM. |
|
02-19-2010, 04:46 PM | #8695 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
|
Quote:
You are creating this ridiculous strawman where we all apparently thought Obama was going to fix everything overnight and fulfill every single promise. Is that what you need to be able to form a coherent argument? None of us here thought that.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
|
02-19-2010, 04:46 PM | #8696 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
|
Quote:
What!? Im sorry. There is no argument other than 'obstructionism' and an attempt to harm the political landscape and thereby you and me, to vote against your very own bill. It is almost the bottom of the ethical totem pole in my view.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
|
02-19-2010, 04:53 PM | #8697 | |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
Quote:
Evidently he has some powerful folks on the Republican side of the aisle spooked, because they are doing their damnedest to make sure there is no trace of bipartisanship in the House or Senate.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
|
02-19-2010, 04:55 PM | #8698 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Quote:
I don't know what everybody thought, I can only read about Obama's background, read these speeches, and wonder how the hell we got here. Smarter people (like those at FOFC) had more tempered expectations, I can understand why anyone would vote for him instead of McCain - but Obama was clearly playing to the lowest common denominator, the masses thought he was going to change the world, and many of them have now become distracted with American Idol and aren't a part of the debate anymore. |
|
02-19-2010, 04:58 PM | #8699 | |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
|
Quote:
Wait, who was shocked and surprised by politics?
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
|
02-19-2010, 05:02 PM | #8700 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
|
Fair point.... Maybe this was just the first election where I was smart/educated/mature enough to notice the degree of it. Last edited by molson : 02-19-2010 at 05:03 PM. |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 31 (0 members and 31 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
|
|